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Thread: From the D&P panel at Fan Faire

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Fixing the nerf

    I agree with some other posters why should WE have to wait months for YOU to fix this nerf?



    WHY not unnerf us NOW back to where we were then work on what you think is the right fix and repatch that nerf later on?



    We should not have to suffer months waiting for you to fix a nerf/problem you introduced! PLEASE UNDO THE DAMAGE NOW AND NERF US AGAIN WHEN YOU GET IT RIGHT! Although as most all monks agree we did not deserve a nerf in the first place!



    This gives me some hope at least. My monk is my main and only 52 on Tallon/PVP server. I am not/will never be UBER! This nerf destroyed an already hard and almost the worst class to play on a PVP server. After the nerf I got wasted jousting someone who I had beat easily 2 nights before the nerf. I had a way higher damage weapon with lower delay but after the nerf he hit me for WAY higher damage than I hit him on every joust pass! I also had 2 levels on him. After he killed me easily and knew I stomped on him 2 nights earlier he sent me a tell saying "So hows that nerf working out?"

    Well if its intention was to destroy gameplay and force me to quit it had the right effect I guess.



    I get one shot killed by PC casters all the time but I am too powerfull?!! I get easily rooted/snared/blinded after the MR nerf but I am too powerfull?!! Before the nerf I could barely solo 1 low dark blue con mob while casters are killing them 2-3 at a time almost non stop but I am too powerfull??!



    Granted I am on a PVP server that doesnt matter to you but none the less I am a paying customer.



    Needless to say I have only played twice in the last few weeks since the nerf and was getting ready to retire my only main char and quit EQ for good. If this is handled right I may actually play again although I have lost alot of faith in you all ......again.



    Thank you for finally replying though and please UNNERF US NOW AND IMPLEMENT YOUR NEW FIX/NERF WHEN IT HAS BEEN TESTED AGAIN AND YOU ARE SURE IT HAS DESIRED EFFECT.



    Thanks

    Taladu Torloch

    TZ


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  2. #42
    Guest

    Default Re: Fixing the nerf

    Monks should take the least amount of damage of any melee class. We are supposed to be hard to hit.



    Warriors have plate and a sea of hitpoints. Those hitpoints make them extremely mana efficient to heal and, after everything is said, it all boils down to mana. I was never a replacement for a warrior, nor did I seek to be. I did like being part of a duo though. Monks had a niche as a wondeful partner for a druid or shaman against blue mobs. Niches like that make EQ a richer, more enjoyable experience.



    To have that taken away, to have our defensive skills become meaningless, to have a developer announce we are suddenly supposed to tank worse than ROGUES?!?! This is all very demoralizing.



    -Utal




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  3. #43
    Guest

    Default Re: Fixing the nerf

    For the record I appreciate the post, and cannot stress enough that we need something now ....not later.



    As it stands there is very little point in playing my Monk and I have seriously considered giving up playing entirely.



    However I do not wish to see some adjustment that then hits the "Uber " Monks. The nerf needs toning down , yes but not at the expense of those who have worked hard for their gear.

    I should point out I am somewhat less than uber myself.



    Savic


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  4. #44
    Guest

    Default Re: Fixing the nerf

    Thanks for posting even if it was to re-state what has already been said from the D&P panel.



    My two cents:



    I want to do more damage if you're going to be taking away our defense. We do 99% of our fighting from the rear in the end-game, because if we don't we're paste. This is the reality, this is not overstatement or exageration. If the monk is designed to be able to deal top damage from any angle, then make it so we can. If not, give us higher "situational" damage (like the Rogues). I'm sick to death of hearing how Rogue damage is situational; it's not situational if that damage is being done 99% of the time. If anything I'd call Ranger damage (as it is now) situational. A mob touching a wall is a much harder thing to control than exposing their back.



    With the defensive nerf, you've cut our class in half in terms of capability. The defensive AAs we now have are largely useless in view of your current "intents" for the Monk class. The "uber tank" Monks you refer to are at the highest levels of the game. Instead of nerfing those monks, why not compensate the Warriors (the class you seem to care so much about protecting in their role) at that level of the game. Up the damage caps of these mobs and let the warriors actually mitigate the damage. Seems a pretty simple solution to me. I have top-of the line Kunark gear and am just now getting into some near end-game Velious gear. I have never been a better tank when compared to SKs or Paladins in similar gear, but pre-nerf it was better than nothing (especially with a group slower). This option is impossible in PoP. Please consider this in your decisions.



    Lastly our big trick beyond damage is Feign Death. A distant second is the Mend utility. When considering "balance" with all other classes, please keep in mind what all the other classes in game can do.


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  5. #45
    Enlightened Grandmaster Wubao's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fixing the nerf

    Wow. For once, I actually don't know what to say.



    Well, if you are keeping tabs on the board and reading what we're saying Mr. Vancouvering ...



    I'll say this:



    As a melee class I really don't like getting beat up as if I were a druid.



    The frequent bone crunching hits ... the frequent stuns ... the frequent max hits.



    It's like I'm not a melee class anymore.



    Unfortunately, my mana bar is always empty too.



    -Wu




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  6. #46
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    Default Re: Fixing the nerf

    Raviel stated exactly what I felt.



    The only classes you need to compare Monks to are Warriors and Rogues. It makes zero sense to place us below Rogues in damage and below Rogues in defense. That gives Monks nothing when compared to our pure melee brethren.


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  7. #47
    Guest

    Default Re: er

    Anyone who thinks high end monks weren't affected by this nerf has no idea what they are talking about. All monk were basically screwed. I could tank better at level 60 pre pop, than I can now at level 65. If that isnt a huge nerf, what is. Monk had good defensive skill yes, and warriors had great defensive disciplines and a lot more hp. Now monks cant tank without chain ch from clerics on basic xp mobs, warriors have increased dodge, and 3 levels of planar endurance unavailable to monks. Paladins and SKs also always had more hp, plus a huge variety of spells, and now planar endurance, like warriors.




    </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub35.ezboard.com/bmonklybusiness43508.showUserPublicProfile?gid=ats uko57>Atsuko57</A> at: 11/15/02 2:17:31 pm

  8. #48
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    Default Re: From the D&P panel at Fan Faire

    i'm happier


    Now to him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you without blemish before the presence of his glory with rejoicing, to the only God, our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and for ever.</p>

  9. #49
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    Default Re: From the D&P panel at Fan Faire

    WTF?


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    <select style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: #ffff7f; background-color: black">
    <option>[54 Monk] Chakyu (Human)</option>
    <option>[32 Bard] Kojiki (Wood Elf)</option>
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    <option>[25 Warrior] Sinev (Dark Elf)</option>
    <option>[8 Beastlord] Rexx (Troll)</option>
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  10. #50
    Guest

    Default Re: From the D&P panel at Fan Faire

    Due to the nerf my level 47 monk is semi-retired. This is the toon I came back to EQ with. I retired from the game for about 4 months from cleric burnout.



    The monk was a very refreshing class to play that allowed me to solo a bit and get up in the face of a monster and not finger wag at him to kill it.



    I dont want to go back to group play due to the time commitment. I'm sorry but RL > EQ, but when I want to play EQ I want to start to play right away, because Im only gonna be on for an hour or 2 max.



    If you can bring back our mitigation, so that I can solo again, I will play my monk again. Till then I'll play my new beastlord. Who can get in there and mix it up a bit, but I still hate the fact that I wag a finger at a MOB every now and then to kill it, and I need a silly pet to help me do the job, I should be doing on my own. But heck at least I can take a hit or two and solo as a beastlord unlike the other finger waggers out there.



    Basically, make monks a viable solo melee class again.



    Votis Rex (The Semi-Retired 47th level Monk on Torv)


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  11. #51
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    Default Re: Fixing the nerf

    "Monks wonít be going back to the uber-tanks they were"



    Awww damn, you mean I won't be able to (possibly sometime in the distant future when I'm in an end-game uber raiding guild) briefly tank a miniscule fraction of end game uber mobs?



    Yeah, I can see why you're not undoing the cripplenerf. We wouldn't want to have any of us stand toe to toe with 3 or 4 end game mobs for 5 to 15 seconds.



    Yeah, that'd ruin the game.



    Totally.



    While you're reading our comments, can you explain to me why I gave up AC, Hit Points, Weight, race selection and gear again?


    </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub35.ezboard.com/bmonklybusiness43508.showUserPublicProfile?gid=jin po>Jinpo</A> at: 11/15/02 11:46:00 pm

  12. #52
    Guest

    Default Re: Fixing the nerf

    Could you please elaborate on "Monks wonít be going back to the uber-tanks they were, but there will be more changes made to try to more accurately reflect our intent."





    How exactly where monks considered uber-tanks in your (or whomever made this statement) eyes?



    Also what is your intentions for the Monk class?







    If we had this information we could possably help with the direct development of the class that we all play.


    </p>

  13. #53
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    Default Re: Fixing the nerf

    im sure the same ability to be an uber tank that absor claims we were came from the same simulations that showed the monk nerf would not be that crippling of a nerf for us...



    ah well absors monthly post i guess... not that i expect him to read any of the posts here.




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  14. #54
    Enlightened Grandmaster Wubao's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fixing the nerf

    "While you're reading our comments, can you explain to me why I gave up AC, Hit Points, Weight, race selection and gear again? "



    Ooooh, that's an EASY question to answer!



    You gave up all that jibba jabba so that you could play the character class in everquest that has the MOST animations!



    Round kick ... funky punch thingie where you try and "strike" the mob ... the wicked uppercut when you dragon punch it ... the lazy Flying Kick ... the combo Instill Doubt ...the wonderfully animated Feign Death ... AND all of the regular animations everyone else gets with weapons, regular ole kick, AND clickies!



    Not to mention the EMOTES!



    Like Fletch once said ... "It's all ball bearings"



    :P


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  15. #55
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    Default Re: Fixing the nerf

    Let me put it like this. I have a 61 monk and 55 shaman. I 2 box all the time. I was in FG and mobs were hitting me for max hits alot.



    Also I was in CoM and greens hit me for max hits mind you I have points in my defensive skills and still getting hit for max by greens. Not to mention PoP people don't even ask me to pull there anymore much or less anywhere due to the fact I drop like a bad habit. 2700HP 1102AC unbuffed



    I think VI should change this: Give us our mitigation back is number 1. 2. CHange the All/All crap but not the class specific stuff i.e. keep the AoW legs how they are. 3. Put more class specific monk items in the game that would take care alot of your problems.



    Phuong Masters

    61 Monk

    Mith Marr


    PhuongMasters00



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  16. #56
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    Default Re: Fixing the nerf

    It's amusing really heh. Monks became all/all looters because everything monk specific was so !&%/&!% shitty. I don't know how many times monk armour has been the subject on this board, and how much is sucked, and how it completely lacked progression (monk kunark armour anyone ?) but the truth is it did and does suck. If class specific monk armour was something that didn't completely suck compared to what everyone else got we'd have worn our class armour with pride. But hey, at least it got some sort of graphics in Velious.



    Raise your hand if you used gator legs and azure sleeves till you hit 60 too.





    When in doubt, feign and let the others die

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  17. #57
    Guest

    Default Re: Fixing the nerf

    Yes, pretty ironic... we told them for 2 years that our class armor was junk and they ignored us, forced us to use the all/all gear... and now decide to punish us for their mistakes. Classic SOE stupidity.


    Raviel Darkfyre

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  18. #58
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    Default Re: Fixing the nerf

    LMAO



    5000 points and 10 mints to Wubao for saying "jibba jabba"



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  19. #59
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    Default lowbie 52

    Absor consider this...



    I dual box a 52 sham and 52 monk (OK so real lowbie compared to most posters here)



    My sham has a JBB. He outdamages my monk by a huge margin...



    sham

    33 DPS for JBB

    15 DPS for dog

    5 DPS weapon damage



    = 53 DPS (10% accuracy)



    this is sustainable, 0 mana damage (ie. exclusing DOTS, DDS)



    Now my 52 monk with a Tae Ewe War Maul (OK not the best but not the worst) does around 40dps (with shaman haste but no epic).



    So can you explain why a supposedly pure damage dealer (monk), does 20% less sustainable damage than a shaman (long term prospect?).



    I have a phd in biomedical engineering and work with mathematical modelling every day. You guys clearly have no idea whatsoever how to model accurately within even 50% of target...



    No wonder you are getting so much criticism...you deserve it...




    </p>

  20. #60
    Guest

    Default Re: Fixing the nerf

    PH34r my reet silver moon headband (which I can replace in about 30 seconds by taking 1kpp to my local bazaar)!



    Aww c'mon!



    pweeze ph34r me?



    Ya, like any Monk in his right mind with a couple of plat wouldn't RUN AS FAST AS HE COULD to spend a few pp on an item thats EASILY TWICE AS GOOD AS PLANAR ARMOR.



    Next time you boneheads want to give monks class-specific gear, MAKE IT WORTH LOOTING!



    I feel sorry for all the monks out there who are tanking like druids right now. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/frown.gif ALT=":(">



    And if I hear 1 more warrior say "They get triple attack at 60" as justification, I'm going to take my goranga idol and BEAT THEM TO DEATH WITH IT!



    (All this anger from a guy who's only monk toon never made it out of his teens!)


    Thedosius Dreamtwister


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  21. #61
    Ex-Druid Monk-in-Training
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    Default Re: From the D&P panel at Fan Faire

    Absor, I think the views and ideas Verant may have on the Monk being a "Uber" tnak are a bit jaded.. I pride myself on having the best non "Uber" gear. I have a combination of the best gear non sleepers+ (This includes NToV, SSRA, Luclin etc) I couldn't tank anything without being a "Raid sponge" It would take a RAID to keep me alive if I were to go toe to toe with a Kael PoZ, common Ssra mob etc.. 2400 hp's when being hit for 200-400 per hit doesn't last long and when raid buffed at 4400 hp's it doesn't last long either.. I can see where the most uber monks per server Verant would have issues with.. But as with myself not even being in the top 60% of the monks on Tunare.. I've cancelled my acct.



    Various reasojns here from.. unable to solo reasonable xp (The best soloable xp was FG shrooms, going back to 1 yellow per afternoon isn't acceptable to me, whereas 12 hours in FG I could almost make 1 AA point while dual weilding my cleric and plvln my monk) Verant has made u[grading monks (Generally of course) raid ONLY upgrades and only the top teir 1-3 guilds can do this. I thought of myself as a able puller and a semi decent puller.. I am asked to pull mob_01, I get ass raped before I can get it back to the raid.. Then Verant goes and makes life even more difficult.. No thx.. I cancelled my acct and I do not agree with these changes period.





    Oh yea.. with epic AND Whistling fists.. Combined with the Rak cloak.. my dps averages on FG shrooms (Or did pre nerf) around 69-70 dps.. now? I get 0 dps.. I either die or FD if I'm lucky between their insanely recasts.. I understand there are (Raid buffed) monks hitting 170-200 dps.. umm.. hello.. they are end game monks.. definately not your common issue monk thx




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    </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub35.ezboard.com/bmonklybusiness43508.showUserPublicProfile?gid=rle a>Rlea</A> at: 11/16/02 1:18:34 pm

  22. #62
    Druid in disguise Newbie Monk
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    Default Re: er

    As I stated elsewhere my dps has suffered greatly since the mitigation change ie needing to fd off many times during a fight or i'm killed. This mitigation change has effected monks ability to do damage to such a degree it's not even funny ie getting hit for max 99% of the time in pov (508dmg), which means I can stand up to eight such hits fully buff'd.

    I am finding myself lfg'ing for sometimes hours on end in PoP zones, as a fd puller isn't needed. This has limited my playing times to almost raid only situations.

    Increasing our dps won't help, I believe as we will spend even more time fd'ing.

    We need our mitigation back, or like some of my other monks friend, we will log on only during raid times. I luv my monk but we are a liability in PoP.



    Etrex 62nd monk.


    </p>

  23. #63
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    Default Thanks for nothing

    Gee Absor, I am sure that this bone your throwing to the 95% of the monk class you and your development team have blatantly ignored for the past 2 months will just fall on our knees and thank the Gods your "looking into this."



    And how pathetic it is that so many of my fellow monks fall all over themselves at your hollow words of so called support for the very people you and Sony have nerfed almost into non-existence.



    Two Months Absor!! and where and what is the monks roll in this new EQ world? What UBER equipment is there for MONK in your PoP?? Where is the weapons so common for warrior, rangers and others that still have not shown up for monks??



    Give me a break!! Sony will do nothing for monks! They do not want us in their version of EQ or they would not have gone to such an extent to nerf us in the first place. They have never responded to any emails I have sent about this situation. They have yet to even bother to come on this board to explain the whys of their actions. And yet since Absor speaks most of you fall all over yourselves to say how great it is that they have finally decided to speak with us. Us the paying customers who help to keep them employed.



    Tell you what Absor, why do you make a level 1 monk with no twinks, no guild and no help on an older server like TP. Try to play a char with a full time job to go to and a real life. Then tell me how your going to help me.

    Tell me how long its going to take you and the rest of Sony's brain trust to "look into the problem." What it take you guys 2 years after you nerfed the necro's??



    I cannot wait to see how many years it takes for you to fix your slight miscalculation.



    Oh and I will not bother to ask you when any new armor or weapons will show up in PoP....I am sure your looking into that also.










    </p>

  24. #64
    Guest

    Default Re: From the D&P panel at Fan Faire

    To the SoE Dev Team:



    I'm happy to hear you guys are saying you'll look into the heavy handedness of the Monk nerf, but some of the stuff in Absor's post bothers me:



    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Monks wonít be going back to the uber-tanks they were, but there will be more changes made to try to more accurately reflect our intent.<hr></blockquote>



    Gee, funny how I never felt like an 'Uber Tank' EVER. Where did the Dev Team decide this was truely the case? Was it using one of your Mathematical Models that you now admit <strong<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/grin.gif ALT=">D"> IDN'T WORK?[/b] Or was it because of the complaints of many Warriors going:



    'My GOD! I saw this Monk (said Monk is decked out in NToV/Vex Thal/Sleepers Tomb All/All gear admitidly) who has as much HP as me, and can Tank as well as me...' (however said Warrior fails to mention that he's still wearing Armor he got when he was Level 35-40, and possibly a couple of Hate Plane Warrior class armor pieces)?



    Does the Dev Team ALSO realize that WHEN a Guild goes to an area with Uber All/All armor drops, the WARRIORS usually have FIRST PICK of any All/All gear there (and RIGHTFULLY SO, since when said Guild goes up against an Uber Mob, the WARRIORS WILL ALWAYS BE THE FIRST CHOICE TO TANK BEVAUSE THEY ARE THE BEST TANK CHOICE IN 100% OF ALL UBER FIGHT SITUATIONS? The Dev Team somehow now thinks it's easy, and that EVERY Monk near 60 in a Guild can just waltz up and get his share of Uber All/All gear and become an Uber Tank?



    Well to all this I say: Remember, FoH, AfterLife, Legacy of Steel, etc. have a habit of farming an area until ALL their members are AS DECKED OUT AS THEY CAN GET. That's why these folks are as powerful as they are, and I'm not mentioning this to say they should be penalized (which is EXACTLY what you did to their Monks with the Nerf); but the Dev Team (who should ERASE their Mathematical balancing models and PLAY the ^%$#@! game they are PAID BY US to develop) needs to realize that some of the smaller, second tier guilds may only be able to mount a couple of successful Raids to equip the Warriors, (and have some stuff trickle down); but AFTER that more on to other areas because the Guild doesn't feel like farming an area for 3 months to get everyone the Uberest gear, when they can move on to an area they haven't seen yet, using the Warriors (Rightfully so) as a front line, and letting the rest of the folks survive with the pre-NToV stuff.



    I think, in MOST situations where some Monks were saying 'Hey I tanked <Insert Uber MOB name here>!' You'll also find that it comes with a caveat of:



    a) Once the MTs went down.



    b) for about 10-20 seconds.



    c) The Druids andf Shamans had to blow the remainder of their manna because the Clerics were near OOM from maintaing the Warrior MTs.



    d) And when it was all done, I had less than 30 HPs left, but hey I survived (and gee, the Guild Raid avoided a total wipeout).



    I think it's been shown time and time again (and Uber Monks such as Arlos have also posted) that Monks ARE NEVER CONSIDERED AS THE MT AGAINST ANY UBER MOB BY ANY GUILD, PERIOD!



    As far as EXP Groups go, Monk tanking was ALWAYS situational, and ONLY OCCASIONALLY would you find a Group that prefered a Like-Leveled, Like-Equipped Monk as MT over a Like-Leveled, Like-Equipped Warrior. Now, If there was a good difference in Levels (say a 51 Warrior compared to a 56 Monk); or a MAJOR differencve in equipment (Say a Warrior in Crafted with a WurmSlayer compared to an NToV equipped Monk with Primal); then YES, the Group would let the Monk Tank.



    I also have to say, given the fact that Druids and Necros can kite in PoP. How was the fact that some Monks (and this is VERY gear dependant) could go kill dark blues in some Kunark and Vellious zones unbalancing? Hell, even if you completely reversed the Nerf, I doubt you would EVER see a Monk (regardless of his gear) soloing PoD rats and mosquitos, DESPITE the fact the SOME Necros and Druids (also VERY gear dependant) CAN do so.



    Also, PLEASE note:



    1) Not every Monk was a twinked out secondary started by someone who was bored. MANY of us started out with the Monl as our first character, and had to deal with the weight limit when looting in groups and attemptng to acquire items.



    2) Not every Monk is an Iksar; and MANY people who started when Human was the only option STILL would not want to play an Iksar (Humans have 42 LESS AC at Level 60, and nowhere near the inate regen of our Iksar bretheren).



    3) Not evey Monk i sporting a T-Staff or Fungi Tunic.



    I swear, if I see another Class complain about how well Monks can solo, and then state 'Yeah, and with his T-Staff and Fungi was mowing stuff down...', I'm going to puke. I've got about 70K total over my career as a Monk (started Nov. 1999); most of which I'm wearing and was VERY hard won. If you're going to justify the recent nerf based on Gear; PLEASE APPLY THAT SAME STANDARD TO ALL OTHER CLASSES! To me, it seems the Dev. Team thinks EVERY Monk in gthe game gets a T-Staff and Fungi handed to them at Level 40; and are all decked out in NToV/Sleepers gear by 60. Again, THIS IS NOT THE CASE, AND IT NEVER WAS!



    Again, in most Guilds I've seen the Monk gets any good All/All gear only AFTER the Guild's Warriors have been equipped, and while I do AGREE with this method; I think it's WRONG for the Dev Team to assume such gear is always so easy for the rank and file Monk to get.



    EVERY Class has it share of Super Uber Players, and if you guys still believe Monks are such Uber Tanks when compared to Warriors, please read the following (which I found on the Warrior's Class BBS):



    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>We've all seen stories about Mages, Shammies, Enchanters, Pallies, Monks, Druids and friggin everyone except for warriors being able to solo (no help at all, even buffs) Yeldema (a non-casting red dragon warrior mob in Western Wastes).



    On October 20th, at roughly 11:30pm EST, [60 Warlord] Kalran (Barbarian) <Fury's Edge> on the Morell-Thule server stood up and proclaimed that he refused to let down his fellow warriors and therefore must slay the beast before PoP came out.



    The night before I measured and did some final prep work. Standing toe-to-toe with him, and starting at 7592hp (full raid buffs), I melee'd him to a very disappointing 52% health. I knew there was some work to be done on strategy, but it was good to have a point of reference.



    I started the fight self-buffed, with 5667hp. The fight took just over 13 minutes and included over 20 weapons changes (Primal bow, throwing boulders... bags of them, Silver Whip of Rage, Nevedaria's Horn, Blasphemous Blade of the Exiled, Bloodfrenzy... notice the disappointing lack of a slow proc that would've made the whole thing a lot easier?) This was the most insane fight I've ever been in. Non-stop summoning, enough spinning to make a carnival worker dizzy, and knowing that at any point in time I could get an add that would just totally own me made this one of the toughest fights I've ever been in (it ranks up there with Emporer Ssraeahza on a bad day). I won't give too many details about how the fight was won here... but you can e-mail me at kalran6@hotmail.com and I'll reply (slowly) with details.



    Now, I'm sure there are better equipped warriors out there, and people that have all the gear I wished I had specifically for this fight (I'd kill for a willsapper and the Rune3 proc'ing weapon from Seru). And I KNOW there are warriors with better AA than me. What I don't know is... has anyone else done this yet? As far as I know, I'm the first... but I won't stake the claim without double checking in a warrior forum.



    This was a goal of mine for over 2 years (to solo a dragon), and the list of people I have to thank for the help is too long to even start. I do want to give special thanks though to the people that pushed me and helped to get some of the more obscure items I used. Solwene, Meeke, Teiravalon... members of Triune and Fury's Edge... you guys simply rock. Even though I was repeatedly told it wasn't possible, you three came up with some insanely obscure concepts that helped a lot.



    Good luck to anyone else that has the same goal of solo'ing a dragon. I highly suggest finding your own style, and hopefully with PoP coming out, you can find a more worthy opponent than Yeldema will become shortly.



    Kalran Dragonsbane - After 2 years I finally added a surname (they wouldn't let me have Dragonslayer).
    <hr></blockquote>



    My point: If you look at the above, I'd say Warriors REALLY need to be nerfed in light of the fact they can solo named WW dragons, right? CLEARLY the above is SITUATIONAL, and Warriors are fine. But given the above type of stuff, I HONESTLY do not believe you can justifiably say Monks are such Uber Tanks in general when compared to like-leveled, LIKE-EQUIPPED Warriors EVEN Pre-Nerf. There were sutuations where a Monk COULD indeed tank for an EXP group - BUT with MUCH LESS manna/healing efficiency from the Priest classes; and ONLY with a member of the Priest Class willing to deal with that type of situation (and there were MANY who wouldn't even Pre-Nerf). I think the fact that the Dev. Team still believes that this MYTH was true shows that they ARE proceeding with an ingrained bias against the Monk Class as a whole, and when you're talking about OBJECTIVELY balancing a game like this, to do ANY balacing with preconceived notions like that IS UNFAIR TO THE PLAYERBASE OF THAT CLASS!



    I would hope that before the Dev Team does anything further they truely look at this class objectively, and verify what's really going on, instead of basing a Nerf on class-envy posts of other Classes. If you as a team are going to instigate a Nerf on the level that you did which FUNDIMENTALLY changes the way the class has been for the past 2 PLUS YEARS, I think you owe it to that class to VERIFY your concerns by ACTUALLY PLAYING THE CLASS, and talking to respected members of the Class INSTEAD of listing to some envious Warrior (aka Furor - and with FoH's past record of having SoE's ear, you'll never convince me that his post wasn't what started the Dev Team's momentum for a Monk nerf); and going by unsubstanciated class-envy posts.



    If you made it to the end of all this, thanks for reading. I've played a Monk 3 years now, and it is the ONLY Class I've truely liked (of course I was also the one who took a copt of 'Oriental Adventues' to D&D sessions, and worked compromises with GM's to allow these types of characters into their High-Fantasy campaigns). Also, to those who dismiss the Monk classs disadvantages, try playing one to around 60 without the benefit of twinking. ANY Class disadvantages can be nullified by twink gear, and it's easy to twink ANY Class these days; so I say again, quit using the 'Twink Monks have no disadvantages' line either. That's true for ANY EQ CLass these days.



    Bottom Line: I hope the Dev Team does an honest evaluation when they finnally get around to BALANCING the Monk class. The Nerf that occured was VERY UNBALANCING and UNFAIR both in ithe mnner in which is was announced, and it's severity; as well as the Dev Team's utter silence and unwillingness to HONESTLY communicate with the valid questions and points raidsed for OVER TWO MONTHS before they finally decided to reply and share their evaluations. I hope you look into it soon, and FIX the unbalacing elements you introduced into the Monk class.



    [Edit: Typos I missed in the first read-over, as you can see, this was a LONG post]


    <div style="text-align:center">
    GrandMaster Monk of the 60th Order - The Nameless Server

    View My Magelo Profile</div></p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub35.ezboard.com/bmonklybusiness43508.showUserPublicProfile?gid=chi lauswiftfist>Chilau SwiftFist</A>* at: 11/17/02 2:00:26 pm

  25. #65
    Ascendant Stone Fist
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Posts
    1,501

    Default Re: From the D&P panel at Fan Faire

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>As I stated elsewhere my dps has suffered greatly since the mitigation change ie needing to fd off many times during a fight or i'm killed. This mitigation change has effected monks ability to do damage to such a degree it's not even funny ie getting hit for max 99% of the time in pov (508dmg), which means I can stand up to eight such hits fully buff'd.

    I am finding myself lfg'ing for sometimes hours on end in PoP zones, as a fd puller isn't needed.<hr></blockquote>







    Yep that's just some of the factors that nerfing defence DOES infuence, yet isn't directly controlled by.



    As you saying often leaving monks unwanted (as some other class does every job a monk can do BETTER), except where FD pulling is absolutely VITAL (which isn't all that often really.)



    It's not a case of simply nerf defence and everything else is unaffected, quite the opposite infact.





    Although I do think increasing base DPS (through damage tables of something similar) might be a way to fix it, you're right that a method of hate reduction that doesn't reduce DPS so much would be needed as well.


    </p>

  26. #66
    Guest

    Default Re: From the D&P panel at Fan Faire

    The nerf needs to be reversed and SOE can do it in fine print so that the warriors don't have an uproar. We should not be made to wait months for something that was done wrong. Admit your mistake and quit hanging onto this mistake. Look at the posts on this board, heading towards 10,000. Is this because you made people happy? You have ruined a class. why are we not to assume after 2.5 yrs of playing that things weren't ok.



    Reverse the change, the sooner the better to save any belief that the development team will do the right thing. SOE's image may yet be saved, but so far your customer relations/public relations with the consumer/us hasn't a clue.



    Fistfury 60 monk


    </p>

  27. #67
    Ex-Druid Monk-in-Training
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    19

    Default Re: From the D&P panel at Fan Faire

    Well here's the deal.. post nerf? I make the sk pull.. at lvl 60 they get what.. 3 FD spells total? 1 is an instant, 1 in a 1 sec and another is slightly slower.. Effectively (For those monks who wished to stay, I cancelled my acct) Those die hard monks.. are now just plain ole damage dealers.. sit around with your thumb up your arse and wait for the sk to pull somethiing in and be pure dps.


    Brother Rlea DaFlea

    Shadowbane: Sorry NDA not lifted yet thx

    DAOC : 49th Level Ranger 130kRP's, Rank 3L4, Realm: Brehon

    EQ : Brother Rlea 60 Suxor Monkey 28 AA

    EQ : www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=147384

    EQ : Hlaill 55 Shammy

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    </p>

  28. #68
    Guest

    Default Re: From the D&P panel at Fan Faire

    Absor,



    Thanks for coming over.



    My hope is that the dev team gets a "chance" to look at this sooner, rather than later.




    </p>

  29. #69
    Ex-Druid Monk-in-Training
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    Default Re: From the D&P panel at Fan Faire

    thanks for coming by. maybe if something changes I will renew my account. I was more than happy to just let it expire when the billing lapsed.



    Brother Shidosha

    62 Skeletal Grandmaster

    Unity, Prexus


    </p>

  30. #70
    Guest

    Default Sikes is FD......No wait he's dead

    I quit eq a year ago at lvl 53, havent been to this site or posted in as long either. This game is based on such and old design that was just never intended to work on such a large scale. They've just been squeezing every last drop out of a dead game, was as dead a year ago as it is now.


    </p>

  31. #71
    Guest

    Default Re: Sikes is FD......No wait he's dead

    Bah, it's not dead. Hell, even the players can easily see what needs changing to fix it. SOE just refuses to make the necessary changes.


    Raviel Darkfyre

    <table style="filter:glow(color=Red, strength=3)">
    <font color="black" size=2>Insidious Blood</font></table></p>

  32. #72
    Guest

    Default Absor



    Close to 10,000 post should tell you something.



    Unfortunately arrogance and attitude seem to be a requirement for working at SOE.



    I'm not buying POP. The atlas, SWG, or anything else SOE puts out. I canceled one of my 2 accounts and may soon cancel the other.



    I've lost faith in SOE. I put 8 months of work into my monk. Hours of farming and hours and hours of playing her. I'm not in a uber guild and she isn't a twink. I have several characters but there was only one I love, My Monkateer.



    Monks did not need nerfed. Warriors needed fixed. They needed better taunt and better dodge. Your supposed to be impartial analysts and not swayed by class rivalries.



    With all the posts about how monks are the red headed step-children of POP, and my personal experiances with my beloved monk, I can't help but believe SOE wants to remove the monk class by attrition. I know you and your associates have stated otherwise, but how can I believe you? SOE has ignored

    every e-mail sent to them on this issue not only from myself, but from hundreds, maybe thousands of customers.



    If I want to be disapointed and demorilized, I can go to work.



    Kat






    </p>

  33. #73
    Ex-Druid Monk-in-Training
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    73

    Default Re: Absor

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>If I want to be disapointed and demorilized, I can go to work.<hr></blockquote>



    That is probably the single truest thing I've heard yet. EQ is a game. It is meant to be fun. The nerf made it unfun for some monks, especially for the casual or unguilded monk.



    That is the thing that Verant (or Sony or whoever) needs to consider.


    </p>

  34. #74
    Guest

    Default Re: Absor

    So... what WILL be the monk class of SWG?


    <div style="text-align:center">

    A Luclin Original</div></p>

  35. #75
    Ex-Druid Monk-in-Training
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Absor

    Jedi Knights I would guess. Closest equivalent.


    </p>

  36. #76
    Guest

    Default Re: Absor

    Thanks for coming by. Although, I think you could of done this a lot sooner.



    I think SOE needs to realize something that they have failed to realize in the past. If you nerf one aspect of a class you get major trickle down effect. (I know this has been pointed out by others, but this is my version).



    Now I am not uber in any way, I am lvl 56 with only 1aa point (Run I). I don't solo so I try to find groups if I can. Currently I have been trying to group in UP but it's not working out to well.



    The reason it's not working out is that alot of times I am dieing before I can ever get back to the group. Granted this is situational, I will not die if I have a SoW before pulling and I don't get stunned. If I get stunned, well I am dead, nuff said.



    If I get the mob back to the group, my DPS is almost non existant. Why? Because I spend half the time FD'd. Before the nerf, I would keep fighting for a bit, because I could take a little dmg thus my DPS stayed fairly good. Now though, I have to FD even if the mob just looks at me wrong.



    Basically I am rogue-lite. I can't figure out what my roll is. I mean I started the monk becuase I wanted to do good dmg and be able to pull a bit. Now I really can't do either.



    I mean the rogue class is looking better and better. Hell, they do twice the dmg I do and now they tank better than I do. I can't seem to find the downside. LOL, I hope no one even mentions that that rogue dmg is situational, thats non-sense. Through 56 lvls of grouping I have never once been in a group with a rogue were he/she could not get to the back of the mob.



    I started a Beastlord. Not because I am quitting my monk, but because I need to be able to actually play every now and then since I can't seem to get a group with the monk anymore. Dunno, maybe I am in the wrong place, maybe there is somewhere else I can go to get a good group with the monk, but I haven't found it yet.



    Sarinej


    Ha..money grubbers took my sig. Was bound to happen sooner or later.</p>

  37. #77
    Guest

    Default Re: Absor

    It's so bad I've actually started playing my old druid. My 56 druid with 0 aaxp and Kunark equipment does better in PoP than my 60 monk with 30 aaxp and a 200k+ pp of gear.




    Brother Xiaolong Lee, Grandmaster

    </p>

  38. #78
    Guest

    Default Re: Absor

    I think Absor and Verant are making this overly hard on themselves for a really silly reason.



    Their basic premise that we are or ever were "ubertanks" is simply wrong and an idea propagated by a PLAYER /point Furor.



    So Absor, if you guys "start" the reversal of these mistaken nerfs by simply not listening to Furor anymore, you will find yourselves immediately ahead in the game.



    Good luck.


    Goanad


    Creator of Sept 4 "The Worst Everquest Patch in History"(tm) </p>

  39. #79
    Guest

    Default Re-post of my SWG giggle, to answer the above question

    * Jedi Defense. Finally, the issue of defensive ability needs to be addressed with respect to Jedi. Jedi in Star Wars Galaxies were originally intended to be a class with excellent offensive potential, both with and without equipment. This ability came at the expense of having only passable defensive abilities, partially in the form of an extremely small, restrictive selection of armor from which to choose.

    This, of course, caused its own series of problems of how to adequately reward the person behind the character. It did not take long for universally equippable items (ALL/ALL items) to be considered by and large as "Jedi Loot," as far back as before the launch of SWG - Dark Planets.



    Over time, Jedi defensive abilities had been tuned up to correct a perceived weakness. This, taken in combination with a few years of universally equippable, low-weight, high powered items entering the game, slowly transformed Jedi into what is arguably the strongest defensive class in the game. Jedi get hit less than any other class, and due to the tuning over time, no longer take appreciably more damage when they do get hit.



    This imbalance between the classes does need to be addressed in order for the Powered Armor-wearing classes in the game to have their proper relative power. The Powered Armor-wearing classes in the game take a serious penalty to their offensive abilities in order to defend as well as they can, and we cannot fix this problem solely by inflating their defensive abilities to compensate for this. Again, that type of change would harm Star Wars Galaxies as a whole much more than altering the one class. Likewise, we have no desire to retroactively alter all of the equipment in the game that is contributing to this problem.



    Jedi defense will be altered somewhat. It is no secret that in Star Wars Galaxies, a character's Armor Rating does not compare equally across different classes. (A Wookie with 1000 AR defends differently than a Stormtrooper with 1000 AR, for example.) It's not the most optimal system, for sure, but it is the one that many people have had much time to get used to. As such, Jedi defense will be altered such that they may continue wearing the same equipment, however, they will get a decreased benefit to their overall ability to take damage.



    Again, we have no desire to make Jedi unable to take any type of punishment -- far from it. What we are primarily striving for is maintaining the defensive order of the Powered Armor classes being able to take the most punishment, followed by the Composite Armor classes and Jedi. The latter being technically a Composite Armor wearing class who will continue to make up the difference by being able to avoid more blows than the rest.









    Heheh, was bored waiting for my wife to finish getting ready so we can go out to dinner.



    Mal

    Ex-55 monk

    Bristlebane




    </p>

  40. #80
    Guest

    Default Re: Re-post of my SWG giggle, to answer the above question

    I know this sounds strange but Im wondering if any one here ever threatened to sue Sony... Mosthere have spent ages lvling there Monks.. I know for one I play on FV where you can have only 1 char unless you buy another account. I have spent the last 9months playing 9 months that seem to be wasted now as like a lot of Monk here have memtioned its getting harder to get into a group and I for one aint a good soloer. Hey I wish I knew how you all got 1200+ac Ive only got 911ac at 53..

    So should we sue sony for the blanted unfair practises and blantent rip offs insued by us who are monks?????



    Just wondering<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">


    </p>

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