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Thread: wiz quadding in HOH

  1. #1
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    Default wiz quadding in HOH

    My friend wizard quadding in HOH gets 23% AA xp per quad...

    that's around 40 minutes per aa point... any chance any one can show me any ANY uber goober woopy doo monk that can do SOLO (S O L O) aa level per 40 minutes? no.. woops sorry case closed.





    We have 0 amount of affordable weapons (entwood mace 50k range rare on market and it's 14/20... LORE there is not a single other weapon that can be near it at this current time), and we have 15/22 with bunch of stats PIERCER (ERR better then 15/25 EPIC rogue weapon..) do i need to make other points about other weapons that are on market? Swiftblade of Zek (11/18 100hp 10 str) 65 or so K.. can i get an 11/18 1hb for a change? no ? why not! WHY no monk weapons are in game that regular monks (not the ones in FOH/Triton/RA/AL so on) can get their hands on?

    Like i said, much easier to just quit playing monk make a warrior and go for straight tanking 'cuz playing monk currently is a looser business.


    kempodo</p>

  2. #2
    Guest

    Default Re: wiz quadding in HOH

    It was also possible to quad in PoV but SoE nerfed it so the mobs aren't snareable (IIRC)...

    Making the mobs unsnareable or letting them be able to summon quickly stops the quading <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">



    EDIT: I indeed mean that is the solution instead of giving a monk some insane item/ability so they start getting an AA each 40 minute... IMHO nobody should be able to get that amount of xp by soloing.


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  3. #3
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    Default Re: wiz quadding in HOH

    noone should be able to solo in any PoP zones. Quading only shows one thing, how stupid and ignorant SEO (EQ departement) are. They know druids and wizards can quad, but still none of these idiots tested it or thinked about wizards going to try it


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  4. #4
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    Default Re: wiz quadding in HOH

    Nerf monks.


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  5. #5
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    Default Re: wiz quadding in HOH

    Have you realised such class envy resulted in hammering monks by nerfbat?



    Stop bitching, stop giving them more hint to nerf.





    Roatus


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  6. #6
    Guest

    Default Re: wiz quadding in HOH

    you can get a silverfang club 10/17 75hps and it doesnt cost 60k


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  7. #7
    Guest

    Default Re: wiz quadding in HOH

    Why would you buy a silverfang club when its almost the same as our epic? I agree with Fder !!>> all this monk nerfing is so pethetic I can only laugh.





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  8. #8
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    Default Re: wiz quadding in HOH

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>noone should be able to solo in any PoP zones. Quading only shows one thing, how stupid and ignorant SEO (EQ departement) are. They know druids and wizards can quad, but still none of these idiots tested it or thinked about wizards going to try it <hr></blockquote>



    when you're lvl 61+ the only places you can make some xp in are the plans

    PoP plans are not like old plans, PoN PoD PoV are more Xp zones than raid zones

    and solo is the only way for some not_really_group_friendly classes to get XP.

    asking to make solo impossible in PoP plans would be like asking grouping to be impossible there

    a PoP plan is no more than Karnor of Velk (and when you see the trains there, you know it's nothing more), they are outdoor/large zones, so they are solo zones, that's all


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  9. #9
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    Default Re: wiz quadding in HOH



    I have a lvl 57 monk, but I am starting to hope the monk class is going to be nerfed again and hard, to hurt all the whiner's even more and maybe these gimps will leave the game.



    Did you ever stop and think that not one monk who is in HOH has a store bought weapon, and that very few people play hybrids to high lvl these days, which is why great gear with lvl limits is so cheap. The T staff is so expansive because it can be given to a lvl 1 monk, and everyone has made a monk twink.



    Today I bought for 400 plat a bard weapon that I sold for 25 K to get a fungi tunic at one time.


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  10. #10
    Guest

    Default .

    you have a few options



    1. shut the @#%$ up

    2. make a wizard and solo

    3. play another game




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  11. #11
    Guest

    Default Re: .

    Giving classes that are not as group friendly the ability to solo is neccesary? Is that why I see shamans soloing in PoV? And what about monks, who now have alot less to offer a group, especially comparitively, than many of the classes who used to be not group friendly (like necros)? Shouldn't monks, by that logic, be able to solo 4 mobs at once in HoH? Necros are awesome for groups now, and are just one of the many classes that add much more to a group than a monk.


    Brother Yoso Limplizard</p>

  12. #12
    Guest

    Default Re: wiz quadding in HOH

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>solo is the only way for some not_really_group_friendly classes to get XP<hr></blockquote>Which classes are those? All you need is some tank type and some healer/slower type. The rest of the group is easily filled out with any other classes. The days of dots not stacking and other not group friendly days are over.


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  13. #13
    Guest

    Default Re: wiz quadding in HOH



    Melee classes with good gear still have a higher dps then casters, and you do not need to share parchment with a monk


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  14. #14
    Guest

    Default Re: wiz quadding in HOH

    I donno, I'm probably in the minority. But I find that having a pet class in the group makes my life harder. The pet usually locks the mob in place if the tank backs away or moves around trying to get the mob positioned properly (not too far from the group, nice open back for rogues, away from the path of roamers, etc). So if given my druthers I'd take almost any DPS class over a pet class if I have the option.


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  15. #15
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    Default Re: wiz quadding in HOH

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>when you're lvl 61+ the only places you can make some xp in are the plans

    PoP plans are not like old plans, PoN PoD PoV are more Xp zones than raid zones

    and solo is the only way for some not_really_group_friendly classes to get XP.

    asking to make solo impossible in PoP plans would be like asking grouping to be impossible there

    a PoP plan is no more than Karnor of Velk (and when you see the trains there, you know it's nothing more), they are outdoor/large zones, so they are solo zones, that's all
    <hr></blockquote>



    You know, when I see stuff like this, it BEGS the question:



    'VI please tell me again how Monks are they were pre-nerf would 'trivialize' PoP encounters' (this was one of their main justifications for nerfing Moinks.



    I bring this up again because there is no way in hell 99.9999% of Monks could EVER solo ANYTHING in a PoP zone (or come close to soloing a named WW Dragon as a Warrior did and posted about it on Steel Warriors).



    With what's been observed in PoP to date, I'd REALLY liker to see a 'revisited' response as to the justification of the Monk nerf now.


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  16. #16
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    Default Re: wiz quadding in HOH

    frisszen, as a monk with decent gear (primal/priceless), I beg to differ that a melee with good gear will outdamamge a caster. Even if you ignore mages, necros, and beastlords (since their pets skew their dammage), wizards do a good bit of dammage. When I'm grouped with wizards, I see 5k+ crits every other fight, and since they nuke more than once per fight and I only do about 100dps when I'm in a position to be attacking the entire fight (which, recently, I haven't been), it stands to reason that *if* I am outdamageing a wizard, it is by a very narrow margin. Shamans and druids I still consider healers, but their dammage isn't bad either.



    Does a decently equipped melee outdammage a cleric? Yes. A druid/shaman? Probably. A wizard? Possibly. A caster with a pet? Hahahaha. A "caster"? Not in general.



    Though, you're right. I don't roll for parchments (though sometimes I wonder why).


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  17. #17
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    Default Re: wiz quadding in HOH

    Allesh, when comparing casters DPS, ever notice the casters don't use max DPS comparisons? My Shammy averages a little over 32DPS by chain-nuking with his JBB when not getting resisted. So when people compare Shaman to Monk damage, they usually say the Shammy does 32DPS. Mages posting on here like to use those Mage boots (name escapes me atm). From a post I saw they are doing around 40DPS. So according to them Mages only do 40DPS. A Wiz wanting to talk about how he can't outdamage a Monk is casting once per fight and using that to compare his DPS. I got laughed at when trying to use a real comparison of a Mage actually casting nukes that take mana, but you can look at spell casting time/refresh time vs damage done and see that most casting classes can sustain an extremely high amount of damage. I know it's old-school, but when farming the Frenzy my Mage and Necro can clear the 4 MOB's in the outer room with pets in well under 45 seconds. Two Monks at their level (52) would take substantially longer then that. A typical room-clearing for them (3-4 MOB's) is over in less then a minute. These two used to camp KC zone-out and derail trains, doing 2 or 3 Dogs at a time was no big deal. Not a chance in hell two L52 Monks could do that.



    Some of you high-end guys are doing great DPS against PoP MOB's. That's awesome, give me something to look forward to. My L52 Shammy with JBB and pet averages around 47 DPS on PoJ MOB's. That's mana-free after summoning the pet, 32 DPS from JBB and 15 or so from the pet (varies from 10 to 20DPS from the pet). From my parses, that's a higher DPS then most 52 Monks, and remember that's mana-free. Mage and Necro pets do far more DPS then a Shaman pet. The only way our sustained DPS compares is if mana-regen is an issue, and not factoring in pets for the main pet classes, at least for us sub-L60 PC's. From what I hear about the new pets and nukes, that trend continues on the high-end, but I'm not seeing too many parses yet definitively proving that one way or another.


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  18. #18
    Ex-Druid Monk-in-Training
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    Default Re: wiz quadding in HOH

    61 monk good gear



    I hold between 80 and 110 dps attacking the BACKSIDE of valor / HoH mobs...90dps is average, pretty stable.



    Pretty good? Sure, but trust me, our mages make me look like a shadowknight pet.



    On a side note, if I am attacking the front of a mob, it is not uncommon for their riposte DPS against me to be higher than my damage to them. This is also pretty accurate as I seem to get riposted at least once per 5 five seconds, for 500+ damage. This is dualwielding, of course.



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  19. #19
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    Default soloing the dragon

    Chilau ...



    I read the SW post about how he soloed the dragon.



    He didn't get into too much detail, but he'd been working on doing it for awhile.



    He used a lot of extras to help himself.



    Many of those extras, I'd bet would be avaiable to a monk.



    Near as I can tell, with ID used properly and some luck and some time invested in thinking it all through, and using a lot of the same extras like puppet strings and what have you, a monk could give it a go too.



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  20. #20
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    Default Re: soloing the dragon



    There's a monk weapon that procs slow?




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  21. #21
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    Default Re: soloing the dragon



    A support class is in the unique position to observe the damage output of the damage dealing classes, by seeing the amount of exp the grp gets over the course of the night.



    For casters to have a high DPS they need a lot more things then the melee classes. And for the most part only a very small grp of wizards on any server have all the bells and whistles to have a high dps.



    It is much easier to make a high dps melee grp then it is a caster grp, all a rogue needs is a epic and another weapon. As for monk, any monk that is in a guild that raids NTOV and up will have at least one good weapon.



    If you want to find a high DPS caster you need to get one from a guild that raids SSRA and up and has been raiding for a long time to get the FT 15, plus the caster needs a lot of AA's.



    My main is lvl 65 and I was only in 2 good caster grps the rest were all melee grps. Part of the problem with casters grps, is you need the right classes that can mana buff the casters to get a high DPS. All a melee grp needs is a enchanter to haste.


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  22. #22
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    Default Re: soloing the dragon

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>All a melee grp needs is a enchanter to haste<hr></blockquote>



    Hmm think we could use a healer too and also buffs to be able to take more than 4 hits before we die.


    </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub35.ezboard.com/bmonklybusiness43508.showUserPublicProfile?gid=biz ber>Bizber</A>* at: 11/27/02 4:21:29 am

  23. #23
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    Default Re: soloing the dragon

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>There's a monk weapon that procs slow?<hr></blockquote>



    I hate to play the devil's advocate here, but in lieu of a slow proc'ing weapon, a slowstone amber would probably suffice.




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  24. #24
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    Default Re: soloing the dragon

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>

    I hate to play the devil's advocate here, but in lieu of a slow proc'ing weapon, a slowstone amber would probably suffice.

    <hr></blockquote>



    It only has 3 charges. And it's lore.... so no it wont suffice in lieu of a weapon with a slow proc.


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  25. #25
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    Default Re: soloing the dragon



    Bizber we are talking about getting a high DPS a cleric does not increase a melee's DPS just heals them.


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  26. #26
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    Default Re: soloing the dragon

    Lets see, my monk only 2boxes with my cleric. So she gots no problems hunting. In fact when I can't find a group (which is like 4 out of 5 non-raid days), I play my monk/cleric combo and go bash stuff.



    As to what solo-class can do or not do in pop?



    Take my last week (minus raid 2 days). LFG for over an hour and the only other folks in pop lfg not on raids? There were a 3 rogues, 1 pally, a 5 wizzies, 2 mage, 3 shammy, 1 monk, 7 druids. Well that would make some group. Maybe for caves in PoD but not PoN. As there was no CC and no cleric lfg.



    By the way I have been in caves in pod as the only caster there with a monk, 2 rogue (sometimes another driud that couldn't get a group either), sk or war, bard. Being about to split critters is important unless you just bashing yard trash.



    So what I did was go play my monk/cleric duo. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":b">


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  27. #27
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    Default Re: soloing the dragon

    with regards the original topic id say good job and good luck to the wizzies.



    and on the seperate issue of monk mitigation, reverse the nerf its b*llocks


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  28. #28
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    Default Re: soloing the dragon

    Every mob I have ever tried to slow with Ember resisted them.


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  29. #29
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    Default Re: soloing the dragon

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>There were a 3 rogues, 1 pally, a 5 wizzies, 2 mage, 3 shammy, 1 monk, 7 druids. Well that would make some group. Maybe for caves in PoD but not PoN. As there was no CC and no cleric lfg.<hr></blockquote>



    Not Nightmare? Take that paladin, a druid, a shaman (both must have the new massive heals), the monk, and the rogue and you have a great group right there that can easily hit Plane of Nightmare. Fill in the sixth spot with whatever class you want to.



    You can't do Gargoyles, as rooting for CC won't work as well there.... but there's always that sixth spot open for the enchanter... or you could grab a mage for a backup tank, etc.



    With those kind of classes LFG, I could make a kick ass group that would do very well in Innovation, Nightmare, or Disease... even without a cleric or chanter or warrior, the holy triad. And often, that's what I do in PoP is pick up the so-called 'leftover lfg's' and make a great group out of them.



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  30. #30
    Guest

    Default Re: soloing the dragon

    I agree a lot of people early on though the holy trinity or whatever would be revived, but pop has kinda gone to the contrary.



    I have been in groups with only the shaman healing and no warrior chatner cleric, etc.



    Some very very odd group makeups made some of the best exp, and no need to hope a holy trinity comes buy looking for members.


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  31. #31
    Guest

    Default Re: soloing the dragon

    heh, you're gonna bring 2-boxing into this?



    My lil monk, raid buffed, level 65, 77 aa, 41/31 weapon, 6400 HP.



    My buddy's cleric, 65, ft-somethingbig, 5k mana, you name it he's got it.



    So the stage is set, I take the cleric and monk to POV thinking maybe I'll PL myself a little bit like I used to before PoP came out, hey I bet it's like 8% per solo kill up there, eh?



    Monk feigned, cleric OOM and gated, mob at 14% life. Didn't even make it to enrage. Was it an unlucky fight? Should I have tried again? Can a monk duo with a cleric for xp any more? These are pointless questions, the answer to all of them is no.



    The solo game is *dead* so get on with it. If you want to solo stuff, go be a 65 necro. They tear shit up, no doubt. They outdamage us with dots alone, then they have a nice pet. They're also probably the most boring class I have ever had the pleasure of botting....sic pet, dot, sit. Stand snare. Sit. Repeat.



    Anyone bitching that monks aren't needed for pulling needs to go see who pulls in even slightly difficult zones, bastion of thunder comes to mind. let me put it this way, we don't send wizards out to pull, we send monks. I'd admit it was just an old habit, but honestly all the other classes seem to either die or bring back 10 mobs.



    I am getting really really sick of everyone posting about what should be done, what could be done, what we used to be...VI changed it. Deal or leave, doesn't bother me...but please stop complaining. You pull as well as ever, you DO tank in a pinch in these high end zones, and you cannot solo a blue mob's left pinky if your life depends on it.





    - Reyn


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  32. #32
    Ex-Druid Monk-in-Training
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    Default Re: soloing the dragon

    Two boxing isn't dead. Just replace that cleric with a shaman and you are good to go.


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  33. #33
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    Default Re: soloing the dragon

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr> I am getting really really sick of everyone posting about what should be done, what could be done, what we used to be...VI changed it. Deal or leave, doesn't bother me...but please stop complaining. You pull as well as ever, you DO tank in a pinch in these high end zones, and you cannot solo a blue mob's left pinky if your life depends on it. <hr></blockquote>



    Another STFU from a lvl 65, 77aa'd, 6K+ HP monk. Great.



    At lvl 52, 960AC, 1600HP I DON'T pull as well as ever, I absolutely NEVER tank in a pinch (well not for long, that's for sure), and I can't solo light blue mob pinkies.



    But you're right, I'm done complaining about it. Because its just as obvious that no one at Sony gives a rat's ass.



    Thanks for all your support though....






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  34. #34
    Guest

    Default Re: soloing the dragon

    If you can't make a mix and match, scruffy but effective group in PoD/PoN/PoI, either you're very low level to be there at all or something else is wrong.



    My shaman can solo zone trash in any of those zones, and some of the harder stuff too, at 60. Add in my 2-boxed(and I don't really two-box very well at all to be quite honest) 60 monk and it becomes fairly easy. Monk has nothing more exotic than t-staff -- very nice and I'm thrilled with it, but his equipment is not going to blow many people's minds. He's about 2500 hitpoints.



    Also, shamans are pretty good for crowd control if mobs can be rooted. You can root zone trash in POD and PON pretty effectively, and POI too. When you can't, that's what debuffs are for.



    Further, druids are pretty good healers these days. Their new mini-CH is very powerful. I've been in POS giants groups and POV caves and other groups with only a druid healer and my shaman, and done very well. Take those two and you have slow, two characters who can root, one who can snare, two who can heal, with one healing very well(druid). Also, both have DoTs and DDs and mana free damage. Shaman also has a pet that can triple hit and bash at that level, but things that hit for 500 often eat it really fast, especially on rage.



    I've seen almost every combo of people playing in PoN you could imagine, and it's not impossible. And the experience is very worthwhile if you're in the low to high 50's, and sometimes even at 60. A few mobs there are even good experience over 60.



    So...don't count yourself out of everything by only going for idealized groups in tier-1 zones.


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  35. #35
    Guest

    Default Re: soloing the dragon

    If you guys think that wizards are so powerful and are so great cause they can solo in PoP, stop complaining and make a wizard. You say that no one should be able to solo in PoP, yet thats all that a wizard can do or sit there LFG for 5 hours. Once again I say stop complaining and play your class to the best of your ability. If you don't like your role in playing the class then play another.


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  36. #36
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    Default Re: soloing the dragon

    hey, a link from Graffë's to yet another post from whiny bitches.



    1) When making an exp group, how many of you group with a wiz?



    My guess is probably not many. We've not been looked at than more than a taxi. That usually leaves us looking for a group for hours, or soloing to gain exp. Personally, I don't like the boredom of soloing and made a melee. Some, choose to solo by single or quad.



    Now, all I see here is whiny bitches complaining cause there class can't do everything every other class can do.



    now, here's a personal STFU, but you'r probably not to bright so I'll spell it out for you. SHUT THE FUCK UP!


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  37. #37
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    Default Wee!

    Balandar:



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  38. #38
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    Default Re: soloing the dragon

    Ahem! Anyway....



    As was said, there are certain classes that are less than group friendly, and these classes more than likely solo to get xp on any given day because they can't bribe their way into a group.



    You want to know what the not so group friendly classes are? The Ones that aren't Tanks/Slower/Healers. The classes that you look at to fill in those other 3 spots. Wizards are certainly there.



    On the issue of DPS... There is a reason that casters look at DPS a bit differently from a melee, and that difference is called mana. Well equiped robe casters with rare drop click nukes can sustain their damage like a melee, and with Flowing thought, various Foci, and the right buffs, a certain amount of nuking can be sustained like a melee--it compares usually fairly well below a similarly leveled and equiped/buffed melee. For those that get them, pets can add a fair amount of melee dps as well. This is known as Sustained DPS.



    Then casters have Burst DPS. This is the damage that a caster can do if he decides he wants to be sitting doing nothing for the next few fights as he meds back to acceptable levels. For Burst DPS, Robe Casters--especially Wizards and Mages-- excel. It's what they do. Unfortunatly, groups dont care about burst dps unless there is a good reason, like killing Uber Mob X, or doing the trials or something similar. This is what manaburn did to an extreme.



    Most of the time, casters are producing damage somewhat above their baseline sustained DPS, but well below thier potential burst DPS, depending on the nature of the group, Downtime between pulls, etc.



    Of the robe casters, this thread addressed Wizards in particular, which are unique among the robe casters for not having either a pet, nor remotely common right click nuke items. This means that for most wizards, their sustained DPS is limited to what they can cast and re-med between fights.



    The reason you see such a disparity between what melee would consider sustained DPS and Casters do, is mana regen. Melee do whatever DPS is allowed considering weapons and AC of the mobs. DPS is unlimited in it's duration, so only time spent fighting is calculated for it. Casters, by comparison, have their effectiveness limited not only by the spells available to them and resists of the Mob, but also by the mana it takes to fuel that DPS, Therefore DPS is calculated not only for the duration of the fight, but the Med time to recover from it as well--if the caster is not at Full Mana, he is recovering from the fight.



    Some would argue that HP for melee is the same as mana for casters, with the major exception of healing spells. There is no such thing as a Recharge spell for Mana, where as a melee needs only a healer, though of course the melee is limited by his healers mana. That limit is not nearly as restricting as the limit the damage casters face.





    Basically, yes, you can see the rare wizard critting for 5k every few minutes, about once ever 5 or 6 nukes at maxxed crit skills. But rest assured that this isn't your average, or even uncommon Wizard that has the spell that will do that, and that if he's casting too much, your total damage will outstrip him since you never have to stop attacking unless you die. Mages with their Summon Epic Rogue spell (the new water pet parses around 90dps on it's own) will give you a run for total damage, Druids using charm animal and Enchanters just using charm can easily manage that damage, at a considerable risk. Necromancer's are kings of sustained damage among the robe casters, having little other choice with their limited choice of nukes and wide array of Dots to go with their Pet--though I believe the Mages are on top of the sustained DPS list here.



    But don't confuse this with Melee style DPS that needs only a heal spell to continue with zero downtime, it dont matter what cool buffs or combinations of classes you bring to bear, Casters are shackled by their mana, and it's unbalancing if melee are close to overtaking them in short duration, much less Burst damage.




    Antrygus Windrose </p>

  39. #39
    Guest

    Default Re: soloing the dragon

    Interesting post, Necri.



    It's true that there is no equivalent to CH on a caster's mana supply, whereas all you need is heals to keep a melee going forever.



    I think another factor when considering both damage specifically and overall effectiveness is how important AA and foci are. A few dozen AA here and there can dramatically add to a caster's effectiveness(foci and armor effects too!), whereas a melees effectiveness, at least in terms of DPS, is not as easy to get up there. Melees seem more well rounded; neither hobbled as much by poor AA nor helped as much by AA's that seem like winning the lottery.



    ND3, say, helps a melee out in a number of ways, including by making cleric heals more efficient, and other AA's do a wide variety of things to extend either a melee's DPS(critical hits, ambidexterity etc.) or survivability so he can go on doing DPS(rapid feign, critical mend, ND3, CA, CS). Yet they also seem more limited, each on their own. They don't generally stun you with their effectiveness(Slay Undead stands out as an exception for me), but overall they add up.



    Caster AA's can sometimes add up to sudden big bursts of power -- canni 5, manaburn, dire charms, etc., with a great many of the other AA's being complete and utter unadulterated crap(mental clarity 3 and regen 3 for shamans come very quickly to mind).






    </p>

  40. #40
    Monk Disciple
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    107

    Default Re: soloing the dragon

    I don't really care about how well different classes solo, as long as they ALL can still do it.

    When a Wiz makes an AA in less an hour and NO melee can't even kill ONE mob in that time though, thats plain wrong.

    I'm also strictly against ANY solo exp being better then group exp.



    I can set the clock after the AA Dings on some wizzies in my guild, just accept it, wiz solo is currently broken.










    Power corrupts. Absolute power is kinda neat.</p>
    Life is terminal in all known cases.

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