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Thread: 1hb worth it yet?

  1. #1
    Monk Disciple
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    Default 1hb worth it yet?

    Hey guys, I don't post here often, but was hoping some of our number guys might be able to answer this.
    I feel like I'm having sort of a "fekkin retarded" moment here, but just wondering if with the new CoTF AA's for 1hb if this is actually worth using now.

    I have both T3 H2H RoF raid weapons (114/18), and the 1hb from T4 (Fearbrand 116/18).
    Prior to CoTF, I did an eyeball parse looking specifically for max hits, and iirc, the max hit of the 1hb (without aa's) which is 2DMG more than the h2h, was doing about 500 damage per hit less than the lower dmg h2h.

    After buying all of the CoTF AA's (Disciple of the Tonfa), my max hit on the Fearbrand now seems to be a bit higher than my h2h.

    The descriptions on our other aa's are a bit lacking at times, and I remember hearing that Fists of Steel now works with 1hb as well.

    So, all things considered, am I missing a stacking issue or a hidden issue with our other abilities, or is the T4 1hb actually superior to the T3 h2h now?

  2. #2
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    Would love to see your parses, but they were trying to make 1hb a viable option for us, and considering the 18 dly I think it's possible. But I'm not in the luxury position to have these weapons to try them out myself

  3. #3
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    heh, I wish I had the patience to parse. I usually go blank when i work with numbers. Most of it was just an eyeball parse (what's my max hit before, my max hit after), I don't even remember what they were, just somewhere around like 2040~ per hit on h2h, 2080~with the 1hb now.
    Pure damage hit, it seems the 1hb is better, but I don't really know the mechanics of HundredHands effect and if our HH from FoS effects our overall haste for all types, or what.
    Prior to FoS changes, I think 1hb didn't swing faster? If all that is fixed, 1hb looks good, I'm just not sure how to parse delays. Not my thing =/

  4. #4
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    GamParse will make it easy for you, just point it to your log file and leave attack running on a dummy for awhile. It'll break it all down for you.

    the HH from FoS affects all swings regardless of weapon type. The change was so that it would proc when swinging a 1hb. So basically if you are seeing the FoS HH effect buff on, then you have the haste.

  5. #5
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    nice, so then FoS/FoF actually does impact 2hb dps then? ... interesting ...

  6. #6
    Ascendant Transcendent Kaliaila's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derakahn View Post
    nice, so then FoS/FoF actually does impact 2hb dps then? ... interesting ...
    I am fairly sure it has affected 2hb almost since it was added. It just took showing how much more useless it made 1hb to us for the Dev's to add 1hb to the proc list.

    I know some were saying during beta that the new AAs did even the weapon playing field, but I never saw much (any?) parse data.
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  7. #7
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    I'm pretty sure I remember 2hb always proc'ing FoS, but thought the consensus was that it procs, but didn't "work" for 2hb.

  8. #8
    Apostle Master Mris's Avatar
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    I worked for 2hb, but it doesn't proc as often, due to using only one weapon, thus losing out of the offhand procs.

  9. #9
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    Talking to a fellow monk who had fearbrand (1hb) and verdant claws (h2h), iirc he said that combination was 1k dps below his 2 x h2h combo prior to CotF, and was 2k above after release, with the 1hb AAs...

    I didn't get fearbrand yet, but I guess it would be a good move. Of course that means if you now go for 2 x 1hb weapons, suddenly the class weapon (possessed dreadstone katar) is bagged, particularly in a raid setting. /sad and yet predictable panda face.

  10. #10
    Ex-Druid Monk-in-Training
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    i aint buying in to the 1hb till I see a parse from someone that actually has a 1h and has dps d higher. All chat Ive had so far I still hear its not as high as h2h


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  11. #11
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    These are some parses I did in beta...




    Ran 10 minute parses on the new AA. All things being equal (haste, atk, FoF, blah)

    t4 h2h, t3 h2h
    /GU Test One Hundred Three in 600s, 6939k @11564dps --- Me 6939k @11564dps
    /tell Me Me -vs- Test One Hundred Three: -- DMG: 6938599 -- DPS: 11564 -- Scaled: 11564 -- Punch: 6856239 -- DirDmg: 82360 -- Non-crit rate: 80.8% -- crit rate: 19.2% -- Attempts: 5470 -- Hits: 4431 -- Missed: 1039 -- Accuracy: 81% -- Avg Hit: 1565 -- Max hit: 4425 -- DMG to PC: 0

    t4 h2h, t4 1hb (no AA)
    /GU Test One Hundred Three in 601s, 6262k @10419dps --- Me 6262k @10419dps
    /tell Me Me -vs- Test One Hundred Three: -- DMG: 6261947 -- DPS: 10419 -- Scaled: 10419 -- Punch: 4050029 -- Crush: 2123293 -- DirDmg: 88625 -- Non-crit rate: 79.3% -- crit rate: 20.7% -- Attempts: 5428 -- Hits: 4414 -- Missed: 1014 -- Accuracy: 81.3% -- Avg Hit: 1418 -- Max hit: 4425 -- DMG to PC: 0

    ALEX, t4 1hb (no AA)
    /GU Test One Hundred Three in 609s, 2216k @3638dps --- Me 2216k @3638dps
    /tell Me Me -vs- Test One Hundred Three: -- DMG: 2215639 -- DPS: 3638 -- Scaled: 3638 -- Crush: 2189455 -- DirDmg: 26184 -- Non-crit rate: 79.2% -- crit rate: 20.8% -- Attempts: 2254 -- Hits: 1835 -- Missed: 419 -- Accuracy: 81.4% -- Avg Hit: 1207 -- Max hit: 3992 -- DMG to PC: 0

    t4 1hb, t4 h2h (no AA)
    /GU Test One Hundred Three in 600s, 6017k @10029dps --- Me 6017k @10029dps
    /tell Me Me -vs- Test One Hundred Three: -- DMG: 6017425 -- DPS: 10029 -- Scaled: 10029 -- Crush: 3107091 -- Punch: 2815142 -- DirDmg: 95192 -- Non-crit rate: 79.2% -- crit rate: 20.8% -- Attempts: 5455 -- Hits: 4428 -- Missed: 1027 -- Accuracy: 81.2% -- Avg Hit: 1358 -- Max hit: 4412 -- DMG to PC: 0

    t4, ALEX (no AA)
    /GU Test One Hundred Three in 600s, 3029k @5048dps --- Me 3029k @5048dps
    /tell Me Me -vs- Test One Hundred Three: -- DMG: 3028826 -- DPS: 5048 -- Scaled: 5048 -- Crush: 2988092 -- DirDmg: 40734 -- Non-crit rate: 79.8% -- crit rate: 20.2% -- Attempts: 3123 -- Hits: 2522 -- Missed: 601 -- Accuracy: 80.8% -- Avg Hit: 1200 -- Max hit: 4005 -- DMG to PC: 0




    t4 h2h, t4 1hb (new AA)
    /GU Test One Hundred Three in 600s, 6977k @11628dps --- Me 6977k @11628dps
    /tell Me Me -vs- Test One Hundred Three: -- DMG: 6976769 -- DPS: 11628 -- Scaled: 11628 -- Punch: 4047062 -- Crush: 2843869 -- DirDmg: 85838 -- Non-crit rate: 79.5% -- crit rate: 20.5% -- Attempts: 5419 -- Hits: 4360 -- Missed: 1059 -- Accuracy: 80.5% -- Avg Hit: 1600 -- Max hit: 4425 -- DMG to PC: 0

    ALEX, t4 1hb (new AA)
    /GU Test One Hundred Three in 600s, 2906k @4844dps --- Me 2906k @4844dps
    /tell Me Me -vs- Test One Hundred Three: -- DMG: 2906121 -- DPS: 4844 -- Scaled: 4844 -- Crush: 2883135 -- DirDmg: 22986 -- Non-crit rate: 80.3% -- crit rate: 19.7% -- Attempts: 2221 -- Hits: 1819 -- Missed: 402 -- Accuracy: 81.9% -- Avg Hit: 1597 -- Max hit: 4412 -- DMG to PC: 0


    t4 1hb, t4 h2h (new AA)
    /GU Test One Hundred Three in 599s, 7119k @11885dps --- Me 7119k @11885dps
    /tell Me Me -vs- Test One Hundred Three: -- DMG: 7118905 -- DPS: 11885 -- Scaled: 11885 -- Crush: 4143402 -- Punch: 2892115 -- DirDmg: 83388 -- Non-crit rate: 80.3% -- crit rate: 19.7% -- Attempts: 5433 -- Hits: 4436 -- Missed: 997 -- Accuracy: 81.6% -- Avg Hit: 1604 -- Max hit: 4425 -- DMG to PC: 0

    t4 1hb, ALEX (new AA)
    /GU Test One Hundred Three in 600s, 4281k @7135dps --- Me 4281k @7135dps
    /tell Me Me -vs- Test One Hundred Three: -- DMG: 4281019 -- DPS: 7135 -- Scaled: 7135 -- Crush: 4240285 -- DirDmg: 40734 -- Non-crit rate: 78.9% -- crit rate: 21.1% -- Attempts: 3204 -- Hits: 2631 -- Missed: 573 -- Accuracy: 82.1% -- Avg Hit: 1627 -- Max hit: 4425 -- DMG to PC: 0




    And just for comparisons....

    t4 h2h, ALEX
    /GU Test One Hundred Three in 600s, 4242k @7071dps --- Me 4242k @7071dps
    /tell Me Me -vs- Test One Hundred Three: -- DMG: 4242315 -- DPS: 7071 -- Scaled: 7071 -- Punch: 4186377 -- DirDmg: 55938 -- Non-crit rate: 78.3% -- crit rate: 21.7% -- Attempts: 3265 -- Hits: 2650 -- Missed: 615 -- Accuracy: 81.2% -- Avg Hit: 1600 -- Max hit: 4425 -- DMG to PC: 0


    ALEX, t4 h2h
    /GU Test One Hundred Three in 603s, 3029k @5023dps --- Jackiix 3029k @5023dps
    /tell Me Me -vs- Test One Hundred Three: -- DMG: 3028620 -- DPS: 5023 -- Scaled: 5023 -- Punch: 3001737 -- DirDmg: 26883 -- Non-crit rate: 78.2% -- crit rate: 21.8% -- Attempts: 2258 -- Hits: 1861 -- Missed: 397 -- Accuracy: 82.4% -- Avg Hit: 1627 -- Max hit: 4412 -- DMG to PC: 0

  12. #12
    Ex-Druid Monk-in-Training
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    Is your 1hb Skill Maxxed, im guessing like most of us its stagnant. I know mine isnt.

  13. #13
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    I assume t4 h2h is the dreadstone katar (class weapon)?
    If so, did you block the oh effect?

  14. #14
    Iksar Admin OMFG I Post Too Much Nedrom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derakahn View Post
    I'm pretty sure I remember 2hb always proc'ing FoS, but thought the consensus was that it procs, but didn't "work" for 2hb.
    From day 1 it went live with HoT, FoS proc for 2hb works for the HH effect, just no 2hb dmg boost.

    I'm not sure if 2hb dmg was added in RoF or not, some discussion in beta around that but I can't remember.


  15. #15
    Druid in disguise Newbie Monk
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    Yes, 1hb is maxed.

    All buffs were the same running the tests. Mostly full raid long duration buffs, no bard songs, 225% haste in all tests, FoF running in all tests.

  16. #16
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    From the group side of things:

    Bleakwood Tonfa: 87/18 1hb http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=85201
    Tu'gar, the Eternal Grudge: 90/18 hth http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=94421
    Disciple's Dragonstaff: 172/23 2hb http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=94437
    Em'ath, Stave of Agony: 239/35 2hb http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=94430
    Cat's Paw: 85/18 h2h http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=139119

    Tonfa is primary only. Relevant buffs were: Ancient flames, Might of Stone IV, Mammoth's Force rk2, Insistent Focusing rk2, Talisman of Celerity, Spirit of Bih'li and *Fists of Fury* running the entirety of all fights. 217% haste total, 3642 attack.
    All 1handers were parsed with 10 dmg augs, both 2handers with 16 dmg augs. Auto attack only.

    Tonga/Tu'gar 12133 dps @ 2334 seconds
    Tu'gar/Cat's Paw 12101 dps @ 2851 seconds
    Dragonstaff 11992 dps @ 2052 seconds
    Em'ath 9329 dps @ 1390 seconds

    I'm impressed with the dragonstaff especially considering it lets us tank better. There's also a 1hb from the heroic vendor that I haven't parse yet since I haven't really had that much time to run heroics and I bought the dragonstaff first. The Tonfa did better then I thought it would against Tu'gar. 1hb is definitely an option now as well. Fists of steel running the entire fight might have made the dragonstaff look a little better then it would in a real fight, but it still made a good showing.

    Edit: Level 100 test dummy in arena.
    Last edited by Vanni; 10-16-2013 at 01:22 AM.
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  17. #17
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    Vanni: "tonfa is mainhand only"

    Is this fact or guessing?

    I've seen most offhand their t4 1hb's

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cazika View Post
    Vanni: "tonfa is mainhand only"

    Is this fact or guessing?

    I've seen most offhand their t4 1hb's
    Looking at the lucy link he provided, it says PRIMARY only.

  19. #19
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    Hmm interesting. So in other Words all those NOT using it in primary hand are basically screwing themselves over? Or is that screwing you over with the h2h aa's? *shrug*

    Does anyone know what reigns surpreme nowadays?

    t3 hof hth + class weapon
    t4 1hb + classweapon (with the 1hb as primary hand??)

    Keeping hearing mixed answers everywhere. I'd parse things myself if I just had some extra time, but don't think that is going to happen until a few weeks from now.

  20. #20
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    Was gonna redo parses, but I may as well post this. Basically I was trying to find a better dummy (closest one to me was this, and its only lvl 70 I think), and I realised after I was about 7/8 points off max 1hb. Anyway, with that in mind..

    Basic info: All parses were full raid buffs (0 shm/brd support etc), Fists of Fury running, max AA, autoattack only, 412/420 1hb (oops). Gear is on magelo link and is up to date. For these parses my h2h weapons had +10 augs, while 1hb had +8s. All parses were 10-12 mins

    2 x 1hb combo: Fearbrand / Baton of flame +8/+8 => 17k dps
    /tell Aggememnon Aggememnon -vs- Combat Dummy Lena: -- DMG: 9465273 -- DPS: 17024 -- Scaled: 17024 -- Crush: 9246671 -- DirDmg: 218602 -- Non-crit rate: 74.5% -- crit rate: 25.5% -- Attempts: 4787 -- Hits: 3873 -- Missed: 914 -- Accuracy: 80.9% -- Avg Hit: 2443 -- Max hit: 8399 -- DMG to PC: 0

    Following additionally include 25% OH proc from class weapon:

    Fearbrand / Baton of flame +8/+8 => 17.7k dps
    /tell Aggememnon Aggememnon -vs- Combat Dummy Lena: -- DMG: 10912225 -- DPS: 17715 -- Scaled: 17715 -- Crush: 10815568 -- DirDmg: 96657 -- Non-crit rate: 75.6% -- crit rate: 24.4% -- Attempts: 5599 -- Hits: 4524 -- Missed: 1075 -- Accuracy: 80.8% -- Avg Hit: 2412 -- Max hit: 8399 -- DMG to PC: 0

    Class / Verdan claws +10/+10 => 17.8k
    /tell Aggememnon Aggememnon -vs- Combat Dummy Lena: -- DMG: 13121336 -- DPS: 17852 -- Scaled: 17852 -- Hit: 13010070 -- DirDmg: 111266 -- Non-crit rate: 76.1% -- crit rate: 23.9% -- Attempts: 7038 -- Hits: 5639 -- Missed: 1399 -- Accuracy: 80.1% -- Avg Hit: 2326 -- Max hit: 5197 -- DMG to PC: 0

    Class / Fearbrand +10/+8 =>18.3k
    /tell Aggememnon Aggememnon -vs- Combat Dummy Lena: -- DMG: 13243827 -- DPS: 18369 -- Scaled: 18369 -- Hit: 7809309 -- Crush: 5301574 -- DirDmg: 132944 -- Non-crit rate: 75.5% -- crit rate: 24.5% -- Attempts: 6945 -- Hits: 5613 -- Missed: 1332 -- Accuracy: 80.8% -- Avg Hit: 2359 -- Max hit: 5197 -- DMG to PC: 0

    Fearbrand / Class +8/+10 =>18.1k
    /tell Aggememnon Aggememnon -vs- Combat Dummy Lena: -- DMG: 12596144 -- DPS: 18124 -- Scaled: 18124 -- Crush: 7288515 -- Hit: 5213137 -- DirDmg: 94492 -- Non-crit rate: 75.3% -- crit rate: 24.7% -- Attempts: 6528 -- Hits: 5265 -- Missed: 1263 -- Accuracy: 80.7% -- Avg Hit: 2392 -- Max hit: 5184 -- DMG to PC: 0

    # comment - is it weird that average hit goes down, and dirdmg was much less with OH running?


  21. #21
    Ex-Druid Monk-in-Training
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    fearbrand (T4) primary
    Thox Tatrua, Ulak of the Quick Death (T3) offhand

    /GU Combat Dummy Jaka in 701s, 10255k @14629 --- Stonescales 10255k @14629

    Thox Tatrua, Ulak of the Quick Death Primary
    Fearbrand Offhand

    /GU Combat Dummy Jaka in 701s, 10166k @14502 --- Stonescales 10166k @14502

  22. #22
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    So seems it doesn't matter if it is primary as the 100 dps difference could just be since the parses are around 10min. (short)

  23. #23
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    Any further info on 1HB damage vs h2h damage for Monks? Has the gap closed? Or is it h2h all day still?
    -Kelefane

  24. #24
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    Fearbrand Primary for me, t3 secondary, hopefully getting t4 class/raid weapon this week and it'll go primary w/fearbrand sec. Still looking like good dps to me, beating 2 t3 h2h.

  25. #25
    Apostle Master Mris's Avatar
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    So, we've seen several parses on the end result of the new AAs, but I haven't seen any numbers on the AA itself. So I did some quick and dirty parses, just long enough to catch min/max hit, and I was surprised at the results.

    First off, Disciple of the Tonfa is 6 ranks, costing 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13. (This was changed at some point, as earlier posts list only 5 ranks.)

    I did several parses, 10-15 minutes long. 1h w/ and w/o Tonfa, 2h w/ and w/o Tonfa, and 2h w/ Tonfa+Katori. Having reset my AA first, I had only those AAs and double/triple/flurry/attack boost AAs. Now, for the meat.


    1h, no Tonfa

    Max Normal 746
    Max Crit 1248
    Min Normal 215
    Min Crit 345

    1h, max Tonfa

    Max Normal 1166
    Max Crit 1668
    Min Normal 635
    Min Crit 765

    Overall change: +420 damage per hit. (Really, devs? Really?)

    The next part was a surprise to me. We've talked about the 1h blunt AAs, but reading the description, it doesn't say that... It says, 'blunt'. Not expecting anything, I tested it.

    2h, no Tonfa

    Max Normal 363
    Max Crit 553
    Min Normal 167
    Min Crit 220

    2h, max Tonfa

    Max Normal 1158
    Max Crit 1348
    Min Normal 962
    Min Crit 1015

    Overall change: +795 damage per hit.

    2h, max Tonfa, max Katori

    Max Normal 1833
    Max Crit 1690
    Min Normal 1637
    Min Crit 1690

    Change from Tonfa: +675 per hit.
    Overall change: +1470 damage per hit.

    That last parse was somewhat FAIL. The normal hits look ok, but I guess I didn't crit much, being such a short parse. So I'm ignoring those numbers for now. (The min/max crits are the same on that one.)

    And if the 2h numbers look odd, it's because this was an older /testcopy, and didn't have a 2hander available. So I picked up one from the bazaar and called it good. For the 1h weapon, someone was nice enough to give me an Ethernere Essence to make it.

    Weapons used:

    Bleakwood Tonfa + TS trophy
    Battleworn Ch'Ror

  26. #26
    Ascendant Transcendent Kaliaila's Avatar
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    I think that you got copy/paste happy and forgot to change the Tonfa to Katori in the 2hb max/max parse. You might also want to do a parse with max Katori and no Tonfa just to see if their is a cap in play.
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  27. #27
    Apostle Master Mris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaliaila View Post
    I think that you got copy/paste happy and forgot to change the Tonfa to Katori in the 2hb max/max parse.
    Could just be 6am heavy eyes talking here, but... What?

    If you mean, "Change from Tonfa: +675 per hit", that isn't referring to the 675 as coming from tonfa, but 675 being the changes vs just tonfa.

    You might also want to do a parse with max Katori and no Tonfa just to see if their is a cap in play.
    I considered that, as well as previous ranks vs just the cotf ranks, but /lazy is a factor. (Seriously, no other excuse for this.)

  28. #28
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    Thanks for the parses Mris. This was interesting.

  29. #29
    Ascendant Transcendent Kaliaila's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mris View Post
    If you mean, "Change from Tonfa: +675 per hit", that isn't referring to the 675 as coming from tonfa, but 675 being the changes vs just tonfa.
    Ok, that makes sense. My late night mind didn't think of that.
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  30. #30
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    Can someone clarify what causes the FoF proc for non HtH weapons?

    Do you have to get other AAs or does Fists of Steel allow you to proc FoF on any weapon? The AA descriptions don't indicate.

    Thanks!

  31. #31
    Iksar Admin OMFG I Post Too Much Nedrom's Avatar
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    You just need fist of steel aa, which allows the proc to affect all weapon types.

    Keep in mind that Fist of Steel only increases H2H based damage in addition to the proc, whereas 1hb and 2hb just get the proc by itself.


  32. #32
    Ascendant Stone Fist Phreaky's Avatar
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    Ok cool so you just need the other AAs for the dmg bonus. I understand. Thanks for the info!

  33. #33
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    So final verdict? Is it actually worth it to offhand a nice 1HB these days? (like fearbrand)
    -Kelefane

  34. #34
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    or primary it depending on your other weapon, yes.
    the damage bonus we get with the tonfa AA brings 1hb exactly the same as h2h of the same damage.

  35. #35
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    sweet, thank you!
    -Kelefane

  36. #36
    Iksar Admin OMFG I Post Too Much Nedrom's Avatar
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    Ratio is still important


  37. #37
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    Good line of testing. I picked up a bleakwood tonfa the other day but didnt realize in my parsing that without max Tonfa AA's i would'nt match. I'll have to get the last couple ranks of it tonight, so i can primary it for the 18 delay!

    Thanks for the parses and information all.

    Ascher

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