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Thread: Need a little help on how Monks can Swarm

  1. #1
    Druid in disguise Newbie Monk
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    Default Need a little help on how Monks can Swarm

    I been playing EQ since it was released on and off over the years and I have hardly any clue on how Monks can swarm. I have picked up bits and pieces here and there but I still can not do it on light blues at all.

    So if there is a link to a post that already explains this in detail I would appreciate it.

    I just came back to game and my Monk is level 95, I have 5750 AC /63000k HP (Unbuffed) and 3550 AAs. And I am wearing tier 3 VoA gear and for 2HB I have the Shrieking Staff 36/202.

    I went to Korsican Warrens catapult area and tried the mobs there which are light blue and I can not even pull 3 of them without getting owned. This is without a merc healer, with a merc healers I can kill them in small groups of 3 or 4, but this is not swarming. I do not see how I can pull 20 of these and not have to FD.

    So I do not have a clue how other Monks I hear about do this. Obviously there is a precise order on which discs need to be triggered and when etc...

    I remember a year ago this one Popular monk on the server was always taking people to fortmech for free powering. He says he rounds up the whole place at 95 and leveled it. Now no clue if he really rounded up every mob or only 20-30 at a time, but he bragged like he did, yet I never saw him do it.

    I just know I can't do that kind of stuff without a Merc Healer, so I just do not know what the heck I am doing.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Stone Fist
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    If you completely outclass the mobs you're fighting, then you can take on a number of them at once and use a 2hb so that you kill the group of them faster because of the ripostes to all mobs as you melee your current target. The use of 2hb is for stronger ripostes even though dps against your current target will probably be less than with h2h weapons.

    The only other tricks besides that are the whirlwind disc and destructive force. Whirlwind you can't use very often, and it doesn't last very long, but it makes you riposte every attack (you dont' get hit). Destructive force is another short duration ability that AE's your main hand weapon against mobs in front of you with one attack per round.

    So you want to be working with mobs that will kill themselves on your ripostes by the time whirlwind fades. In other words, if they have too many hp, it wont work.

    You want to round up a bunch of mobs and time the start of the disc to get the most use of it and without any of them being out of your melee range.

    You want to combine what you can with whirlwind to boost the damage it does. For damage boosting you definitely want to run Infusion of Thunder, but you can also use other things like zanfi, 2nd or 3rd spire, etc You can use destructive force also, or save it for cleanup if some of the mobs are still up when whirlwind fades.

  3. #3
    Ascendant Ashenhand
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    He exagerated on saying he got the whole place. There are about 6 floors, I found that on the top 3 floors which is where you got the light blue mobs, if you pulled more then half the floor you would loose some of your train.

    With that said I would suggest going to the top three floors rather then the catapults to pull stuff (or beza which may be easier to get to).

    Your AC seems a little low to me but when you do this you want Mend and hastened medn maxxed. Start out pulling 5 mobs on the floor and back into a corner (I would recommend levitate in case you get a Suit to limit knockback). Then pull 10 mobs and see how you handle that, eventually working yourself up to more.

    With just myself after practice (and in raid gear) I could clear floors 3 4 and 5 then go back down to 3 and get a good part of it cleared on lesson (this is without taking time to loot). If I had a friend along I was Plevleing (which was often a druid) I could clear 3 4 5 back to 3 and sometimes part or most of 4. Another advantage of pleveling someone is they do the looting while you are rounding up a new train.

    Solo I usualy broke the pulls up into 3 pulls per floor, with some healing help from person I pleveled I would do 2 pulls a floor.

    Now lets say you pull 20 mobs and you are worried this is going to be too big of a pull. Offense is often better then defense... Innerflame or whatever are current variation of it boosts our damage ESPECAILLY When swarming. Not only does it boost the damage of each swing but each Riposte also.

    If Diamondpalm is down consider speed focus AND infusion AND Destrictive Force.

    If the pull just needs a LITTLE boost you can use inpenetrable.

    These discs help if you are doing lots of different pulls. If you are just doing one pull, you want whirlwind (which will lock inpentrable out for the rest of your lesson). Again the trick is to find a spot wher all teh mobs will be in your front arc... as you start you want to have a corner at yrou abck, as you get mroe practice you will usually be able to do it in the middle of a room.

    Important AA are defensive, and all your Riposte AA, critical Mend, hastened Mend. Other stuff is important but those are probably the MOST important.

    Giant Robot is great at level 95, but is green by 100.
    Going for AC before AC was cool.

  4. #4
    Enlightened Grandmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ughbash View Post
    Your AC seems a little low to me but when you do this you want Mend and hastened medn maxxed. Start out pulling 5 mobs on the floor and back into a corner (I would recommend levitate in case you get a Suit to limit knockback). Then pull 10 mobs and see how you handle that, eventually working yourself up to more.

    Now lets say you pull 20 mobs and you are worried this is going to be too big of a pull. Offense is often better then defense... Innerflame or whatever are current variation of it boosts our damage ESPECAILLY When swarming. Not only does it boost the damage of each swing but each Riposte also.
    This confused me quite a bit. I thought the whole point was to use whirlwind (thereby, other discs are a little worthless). Also, I thought the MORE mobs you had, the easier it would be, since more ripostes using destructive force would help mow them down faster. Your advice seems like it would get him killed faster. jm2c, I don't have enough experience to be confident in my assumption on this, just seems weird to me.

  5. #5
    Ascendant Stone Fist
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    I'm not aware of anything that having more mobs helps, but it has been suggested before. I just can't think of anything we have that works like that other than that new disc that supposedly Procs off dodge (block?).

    Ughbash is mostly talking about killing a lot of mobs efficiently, rather than a giant whirlwind train.

  6. #6
    Enlightened Grandmaster
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    The theory really hinges on if ripostes count for destructive force. If they do, then having more mobs will greatly increase the damage for all mobs. If not, then the number of mobs doesn't matter at all (damage will be the same for all mobs that are there, regardless of 1 or 1000)

  7. #7
    Ascendant Ashenhand
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ishtass View Post
    The theory really hinges on if ripostes count for destructive force. If they do, then having more mobs will greatly increase the damage for all mobs. If not, then the number of mobs doesn't matter at all (damage will be the same for all mobs that are there, regardless of 1 or 1000)
    They don't as far as I have determined. For best xp you want to pull the most mobs you can handle WITHOUT whirlwind. Then repeat it . Whirlwind is a tool, a powerful tool but not one that is always available.
    Going for AC before AC was cool.

  8. #8
    Enlightened Grandmaster
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    Yeah, I just remember hearing people popping lesson for a quick whirlwind rage, then camping off for 40 min until the timer was done to come back in and whirlwind again. Grinding out a lot of exp for that one lesson use.

  9. #9
    Apostle Master
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    Default Big 2 hander with an AOE proc

    I don't remember what it was, but there used to be a earthquake procing or somesuch 2 hander that was ideal for this. People would try to get a slow dumped on them before whirl winding to increase the proc rate.

    It's been quite a while, but this was the setup where more mobs was better, betting more aoe proc's off a weapon.

  10. #10
    Enlightened Grandmaster
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    Earthshaker (shakerpaging) might be what you're referring to.

    There's also the blued two-handed hammer (monk usable) which you can still get, just really rare drop involved.

    http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=552

  11. #11
    Apostle Master Xosa's Avatar
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    I think what the OP is talking about is leveling huge trains... pretty sure they mean the WW/DF/2HB method.

    You do need to have a good 2-hander... you need to have some gear and AAs, too.

    Equip a 2hander... get buffed up. Round up a buncha low mobs.... the more the better. Kite 'em a bit into a nice tight group. Hit ZF, 2nd Spire, Drunken Monkey, quickly find a corner. Turn and face mob, and the split second they arrive, hit Whirlwind (or you will probly die, lol), Destructive Force and make sure you're also keeping attack on (as mobs die, it turns off and you'll lose some DPS). I'd recommend turning your log/parser off, seems like it used to lag me out... the amount of battle spam you produce is astronomical.

    The two keys are Whirlwind and Destructive Force. Whirlwind is auto-riposte. Destructive Force hits everything in range. Basically, every time a single mob hits you, you then hit every mob in range. For this reason, you also want to have all your stackable damage mods running, so that you're doing the most damage per hit that you can. The more mobs you have hitting you, the more you'll riposte every mob in range. I've died or failed doing this with small trains..... but trains of 25-40 mobs is insta-train-derailment. It's quite a rush. I haven't actually done it in a long time, but I used to do it all the time in my.... 80s? PoFire was awesome. It can be a good PL tool... I remember around 80-85, I PL'd some toons in their 60s. Told 'em to sit in a nearby corner and avoid agro, and have Lesson up. Rampshaked about 40 mobs, and all 4 toons got over a level, in about 5 minutes of work.

    I honestly don't know how viable this method is anymore though, haven't heard/seen any monks doing it. Expansions these days have mobs with so many friggin hps, it's probly not all that feasible... although with all the new Kick stuff we got, and return kick, it might be interesting to investigate. I did get many hundreds of AAs in PoFire doing this years ago, though, when I was in my 80s, and the concept has probly changed very little. I wanna say I'd get 15-20 AAs per pull and could do it every 40 mins or so. After PoFire, it just got less and less viable to pull off due to the ballooning hps of mobs in the later levels.
    Last edited by Xosa; 09-05-2013 at 03:14 PM.

  12. #12
    Ascendant Ashenhand
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    God...its been a long time since ive played my EQ monk but this thread topic just had me imagining that suddenly EQ monks can fly and the best robe is black and yellow striped.
    Shaman - Balanced
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  13. #13
    Ex-Druid Monk-in-Training
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    I would check out MMM on the top floor near geartop spawn. I had a set path that would yield the most mobs with the least chance of losing them. Once I had my back to a corner (to avoid push and mobs summoning me all over) I would hit: Epic, Zanfi, third spire, chest, healpot if necessary, infusion, wait until i was 50%, hit mend, then whirlwind and destructive force. diamond at the end if there were any left.

    I'll try to describe the path using this map: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/spaw...n-topfloor.jpg

    I would camp in the corner to the East of the "east elevator to 2nd floor" grab the four mobs in the corner room, run into steam stage room (throw something at the furthest mob), run through geartop spawn room, straight through the next room, follow the n shaped hallway, toss something at the mech suits in the hallway to trainer room, then run straight north, take the left and bury my back in that corner and wait for them to come. If that makes sense to you, congratulations.
    Anyhow, it took me a lot of trial/error/dying to figure out a good path. I got quite a few levels and AAs and best of all, no one was ever there. as you're running equip something that won't do enough damage to cause mobs to summon you

    Now at 100 I swarm about 60 mobs in OBF. Group them using dreamwalk & blink. Click: epic, zanfi, 3rd spire, eagle's balance, infusion, (heal pot, forestall if needed), at 50% hit mend, then whirlwind and DF. Only a few ikaavs are left after that which are easy to finish off. Also doing the 4 kill tasks from commander prezul & the daily task to add to the aa. loot all the purity augs, sell everything but the 25, and you'll have a huge stock of 25 purity augs

    i never liked warrens to swarm. too many people, seemed more likely to lag and get eaten.
    i did 85 - 90 swarming spiders in the pit of vald. was a great hotzone.

    all that being said it is going to take a bit of practice wherever you end up. more often than not it was lag that killed me, so you'll have your fair share of frustrations.

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