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Thread: Baton of Flame

  1. #1
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    Default Baton of Flame

    Yyevil - lvl 98 6950 AA's and all passive offensive AA's for lvl 98 maxed

    Our first Baton of Flame dropped the other night and no one bid on it, so i hopped in for 1 point and won it. From a ratio comparison the Baton is far superior, but monks are designed to use h2h. Due to how our AA's are designed. However, i felt it was worth 1 DKP to play with. I did a /testcopy myself and parsed over night on the test server. Below are the results and they are with a doubt definitive.

    Buffs - None except Fists of Fury, which was frozen due to all buffs being permanently frozen in the Arena on the test Server.

    Ratios:
    Beast King's Claws - 100/18 = 5.56 ratio + 10
    Vine Covered Spike - 105/19 = 5.53 ratio + 8
    Baton of Flame - 121/20 = 6.05 ratio + 8

    Baseline Parse for Comparison = 4903 DPS
    Primary = BKC
    Secondary = VCS

    Yyevil -vs- Test One Hundred: -- DMG: 96263143 -- DPS: 4903 -- Scaled: 4903 -- Hit: 94651017 -- DirDmg: 1518047 -- Punch: 94079 -- Non-crit rate: 83.4% -- crit rate: 16.6% -- Attempts: 77666 -- Hits: 77666 -- Accuracy: 100% -- Avg Hit: 1239 -- Max hit: 3555 -- DMG to PC: 0
    Fists of Steel Proc'd once every 25.4 seconds

    Test #1 = 4546 DPS
    Primary = BKC
    Secondary = Baton of Flame

    Yyevil -vs- Test One Hundred: -- DMG: 187874329 -- DPS: 4546 -- Scaled: 4546 -- Hit: 119457064 -- Crush: 64585533 -- DirDmg: 3831732 -- Non-crit rate: 83.2% -- crit rate: 16.8% -- Attempts: 159566 -- Hits: 159566 -- Accuracy: 100% -- Avg Hit: 1177 -- Max hit: 3697 -- DMG to PC: 0
    Fists of Steel Proc'd once every 47.2 Seconds

    Test #2 = 4339 DPS
    Primary = Baton of Flame
    Secondary = Beast King Claws

    Yyevil -vs- Test One Hundred: -- DMG: 34428497 -- DPS: 4339 -- Scaled: 4339 -- Crush: 18152605 -- Hit: 15521105 -- DirDmg: 754787 -- Non-crit rate: 83.5% -- crit rate: 16.5% -- Attempts: 30003 -- Hits: 30003 -- Accuracy: 100% -- Avg Hit: 1147 -- Max hit: 3708 -- DMG to PC: 0
    Fist of Steel Proc'd once every 45.9 seconds
    Last edited by Yyevil; 02-05-2013 at 02:51 PM.

  2. #2
    Iksar Admin OMFG I Post Too Much Nedrom's Avatar
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    Just so there is no confusion, the reason why Fist of Steel AA procs more with 2 x h2h weapons is because it only works on h2h & 2hb weapons.

    When using 1hb weapon, FoS is completely disabled and doesn't work.


  3. #3
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    Please post this on the official forums somewhere, I don't think they believe anyone that this weapon is garbage.

  4. #4
    Iksar Admin OMFG I Post Too Much Nedrom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tanecho View Post
    Please post this on the official forums somewhere, I don't think they believe anyone that this weapon is garbage.
    I just PM'd this thread to Ngreth and Chandrok. I had been discussing this exact issue with them in a PM about 1 month ago and they didn't believe me that this was an issue.


  5. #5
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    Summary:

    Even though the Baton of Flame was a significantly higher ratio, due to the AA related bonus' possessed by monks, using inferior weapons is significantly higher DPS.

    Additionally, I found it staggering that Fists of Steel proc'd twice as often with two h2h weapons. I had been previously informed that FoS would proc with any weapon, but now Im going to have to check that myself on the guild hall dummy with my 2hb (confirmed). For those who read this who are not monks, FoS is an innate AA proc that we get that enhances all h2h damage AND grants us Hundred Hands effect throughout it's duration. It lasts 15-18 seconds when it procs, thus with a frequency of once every 25 seconds we are without it only 30% of the time. However, with a frequency of every 47 seconds we are without it 67% of the time. Not having FoS kills our DPS, thus this in combination with the innate lower DPS from the Baton of Flame means it is crap for monks even though the ratio is significantly better. However, in all the parses FoS was locked, as I said, and the Baton of Flame was still inferior and significantly inferior in every single case.

    Enjoy the Baton of Flame beastly friends. I'll make sure no monks in my guild waste DKP on this.

  6. #6
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    Thought I might add Art

    This was Beast King's Claws (+10) and Vine Covered Spike(+8)
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    This was Beast King's Claws(+10) and Baton of Flame(+8)
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    This was Flame of Baton (+8) and Beast King's Claws (+10)
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  9. #9
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    One last thing
    Parse Lengths are as follows and the order I did them:

    Claw/Spike - 5.4 hours
    Claw/Baton - 11.5 hours
    Baton/Claw - 2.2 hours (only did this one for form, as it wasn't necessary due to the first two parses telling the tail)

  10. #10
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    Thats shocking. I knew it would proc less, but I would have thought FoS would proc more frequently from primary, but it looks like 2 *need* 2 x h2h to get a decent fire rate. I have 2 further questions:
    1. Whats the proc rate on 2hb?
    2. What the proc rate on the ewquivalent rog ability (anyone have an idea? I can ask Brog).

    edit: (2) Rog proc 3.4 per min on their equivalent ability (Etherium Blades AA / blade fury proc), so looks higher ...
    Last edited by Aggememnon; 02-05-2013 at 08:48 AM.

  11. #11
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    Maxed FoS at level 100 gives +330 damage per hit to all H2H weapons.

    Maxed FoS at level 100 gives +0 damage per hit to all 1HB weapons.

    Unless the 1HB in question has a damage value so far above that of our already high ratio H2H weapons it will never be viable.

  12. #12
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    The problem with FoS procs is you can get a couple in a row, then none for a long time, so the timer goes like this <proc>15...14..<proc>..15..14...etc... so you get 1 or 2 seconds from the second proc. heh

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggememnon View Post
    Thats shocking. I knew it would proc less, but I would have thought FoS would proc more frequently from primary, but it looks like 2 *need* 2 x h2h to get a decent fire rate. I have 2 further questions:
    1. Whats the proc rate on 2hb?
    2. What the proc rate on the ewquivalent rog ability (anyone have an idea? I can ask Brog).

    edit: (2) Rog proc 3.4 per min on their equivalent ability (Etherium Blades AA / blade fury proc), so looks higher ...
    I'll check the 2hb proc rate since Im home sick and have nothign else better to do.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorkeyah View Post
    The problem with FoS procs is you can get a couple in a row, then none for a long time, so the timer goes like this <proc>15...14..<proc>..15..14...etc... so you get 1 or 2 seconds from the second proc. heh
    Keep in mind that I have no buffs. So I wonder if buffs would affect the proc rate? Haste?(maybe) Atk?(doubtful) etc.? I might test copy when I'm full raid buffed to check and compare proc rate. Doubt it matters but you never know.

  15. #15
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    None of that will effect procrates. Anything that raises... Dex? Will increase it, I think, but haste and attack won't


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    Quote Originally Posted by Nedrom View Post
    Just so there is no confusion, the reason why Fist of Steel AA procs more with 2 x h2h weapons is because it only works on h2h & 2hb weapons.

    When using 1hb weapon, FoS is completely disabled and doesn't work.
    To emphasize the critical nature of this issue to monks, I did a couple of statistics from the CTOV candyland. I am making these same posts on my guild forums, and the stuff below is an excerpt from a post I just made there. With that fact that h2h is the only viable weapon option for monks, here is a list of weapons from CTOV for each melee/hybrid class.

    An example of how critical this is an issue is to monks is that being we are limited to a single weapon type, that means we have one single weapon upgrade possibility in CTOV, and that weapon is off Vulak, which we won't kill for months.....and we share it with beasts.

    To put this in perspective, here are the number of 1h weapons available for each class in CTOV.

    Bard - 10
    Beast - 4 (1hb, Pierce, h2h Vulak)
    Monk - 1 (h2h - off Vulak)
    Paladin - 9 (three of which are Pally/SK or Paly only)
    Ranger - 6 (+1 bow)
    Rogue - 11 (3 rogue only daggers)
    Shadowknight - 10 (two shared with Paly, unique weapon is 2h)
    Warrior - 10 (two warrior only)

    Anyone else see a problem here?
    I would really love to hear the reasoning behind the need/justification for 3 rogue only daggers from CTOV? When there's only two monk items (one of which isn't viable) and they're shared with beasts. 3 for 1 class. 2 shared between two classes. Seriously?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maereax View Post
    None of that will effect procrates. Anything that raises... Dex? Will increase it, I think, but haste and attack won't
    Yeah i agree, but we never know these days do we?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yyevil View Post
    Yeah i agree, but we never know these days do we?
    Yeah, I was sitting here thinking about it and I don't know if what I said was even accurate. This is an innate process, not a weapon or a buff. I don't know if stats even effect that, and if they do, how/how much.


  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggememnon View Post
    Thats shocking. I knew it would proc less, but I would have thought FoS would proc more frequently from primary, but it looks like 2 *need* 2 x h2h to get a decent fire rate. I have 2 further questions:
    1. Whats the proc rate on 2hb?
    3 hour parse with my 2hb and FOS proc'd once every 47.86 seconds

  20. #20
    Iksar Admin OMFG I Post Too Much Nedrom's Avatar
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    So Proc rate of FoS on 1 x h2h and 1 x 2hb looks to be the same.


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yyevil View Post
    I would really love to hear the reasoning behind the need/justification for 3 rogue only daggers from CTOV? When there's only two monk items (one of which isn't viable) and they're shared with beasts. 3 for 1 class. 2 shared between two classes. Seriously?
    I'm curious when rogues started getting rogue only weapons with higher ratios than general piercers...

  22. #22

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    Underfoot, think the first was from Beast then another in convorteum? IIRC

  23. #23
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    Thank you for doing the parses and then sharing the details. The more stuff like this that is out there the better chance we have of ever really convincing anyone of just how real our whining is... And hopefully this will spare a monk really spending DKP to get a 1hb weapon for anything but sh1ts and giggles.

    And I know that taking the time to do the parses and cull the data is damn boring work!

    And oh yeah who is annoyed that our RoF 2hb choices are all lower dmg and faster swings... as if we were actually using em for dps vs riposte?
    Rten/Frank

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rten View Post
    Thank you for doing the parses and then sharing the details. The more stuff like this that is out there the better chance we have of ever really convincing anyone of just how real our whining is... And hopefully this will spare a monk really spending DKP to get a 1hb weapon for anything but sh1ts and giggles.

    And I know that taking the time to do the parses and cull the data is damn boring work!

    And oh yeah who is annoyed that our RoF 2hb choices are all lower dmg and faster swings... as if we were actually using em for dps vs riposte?
    You're most welcome. I knew others would be interested when I saw the staggering results of these parses. So I was glad to share.

    cheers!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rten View Post
    And oh yeah who is annoyed that our RoF 2hb choices are all lower dmg and faster swings... as if we were actually using em for dps vs riposte?
    yup

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rten View Post
    And oh yeah who is annoyed that our RoF 2hb choices are all lower dmg and faster swings... as if we were actually using em for dps vs riposte?
    If they would make 2h not retardedly bad DPs, I'd be cool with it...


  27. #27
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    wrong post, i'm dumb


  28. #28
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    Monks can't get 1 weapon fixed, but they'll fix every weapon in the expansion for berserkers. *sigh*

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by tanecho View Post
    Monks can't get 1 weapon fixed, but they'll nerf every weapon in the expansion for berserkers. *sigh*
    Fixed


  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maereax View Post
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tanecho
    Monks can't get 1 weapon fixed, but they'll nerf every weapon in the expansion for berserkers. *sigh*

    Fixed
    And they are going to undo this nerf.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zzlaarr View Post
    And they are going to undo this nerf.
    saywha?

    edit: man, that's a crock of shit. Yeah, go ahead and un-nerf zerkers, just let us monks hang back here under the stairs in our broom cupboard, we don't need anything


  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maereax View Post
    saywha?

    edit: man, that's a crock of shit. Yeah, go ahead and un-nerf zerkers, just let us monks hang back here under the stairs in our broom cupboard, we don't need anything
    Wait, why are you playing a monk if you do not like it from behind?!
    Noone told you that being a masochist is prerequirement for the monk class?

  33. #33
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    Fair enough actually


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