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Thread: General Consensus

  1. #1
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    Default General Consensus

    So is the General Consensus to stack Cltural Cleave augs (and one fero aug) for DPS, or to go with the more balanced overal stats of T2 armor?
    Going for AC before AC was cool.

  2. #2
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    The teir armor is typically better stats at the highest teir, the cultural is usually obtainable faster and offers more cleave.
    In VoA, the hp/AC/hstats were better on the T4, I don't know about RoF T2, RoF cultural, and if there's going to be a RoF T3, what that'll look like


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    As someone with 7 cultural slots (6 cleave and 1 fero) and T4 arms for even more cleave, I'm still undecided on what to do. Cultural this expansion seems to lag the top (T2) by more than it did in VoA (I'm extrapolating cultural gear an SK friend of mine made compared to SK T2). It seems highly likely there will be a T3 to RoF which implies that for RoF cultural is going to lag the top end raid visibles even more than in VoA. For now I'm just not upgrading any visibles.

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    Stacked cleave will be more damage for sure, it's just a question of whether or not it's worth it for you to do it.

    I think a lot of the choice will depend on your particular loot system. Some guilds the cultural augs are basically free compared to fighting with everyone else over armor.
    Rasputyn

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    Iksar Admin OMFG I Post Too Much Nedrom's Avatar
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    Devs have said many times they want to 'break' the ability to stack cleave in cultural as it was not intentional, however, it's still yet to be done.

    Question is, do you want to buy that gear just to have it nerfed?


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    It's not even that much damage, I wouldn't trade it for the survivability. It's 180 /hit if you stack full cleave and get top teir arms, and you're losing out in other places, namely heroics and AC


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    And yet Rten is the #2 AC monk serverwide and he's in cultural

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    The thing with cultural is you know it is going to be nerfed, but they have taken a long time over it now. So much so that last exp I did not even make any. With cultural you basically lose all you +kick and +flykick mods, and there are only a handful of +kick/fly items in RoF (ear/waist/neck). With augs from Void vendor, its likely you will be likely around the 40 mark.

    I could not really decide what to do, but I think I will hug the middle ground and go for 3 cultural + tier arms.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celephane View Post
    And yet Rten is the #2 AC monk serverwide and he's in cultural
    He's also wearing much better offslot gear than I am and he's got full RoF cultural, I only have one RoF piece and it's a T1 earring I bought with currency.

    Also, no BP click is a huge loss on burns, and the impen focus is amazing. It's a choice. There's pro's and cons. I actually think the cultural might be better than T2, but I don't know how T3 is going to work.
    Last edited by Maereax; 01-11-2013 at 06:52 AM.


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    Ascendant Transcendent Kaliaila's Avatar
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    Aside from the Cleave Aspect, RoF Cultural is T1.5 with stats all falling between T1 and T2. So unless they add another set of Augs in T3; you're going to be losing a good share of HME and what not compared to whatever the T3 armors are like.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaliaila View Post
    Aside from the Cleave Aspect, RoF Cultural is T1.5 with stats all falling between T1 and T2. So unless they add another set of Augs in T3; you're going to be losing a good share of HME and what not compared to whatever the T3 armors are like.
    That's what I thought, but that's not true, unless I'm missing something. I actually made a copy of my magelo and used rtens offslots and his cult is still better. BP comparason here:

    http://i.imgur.com/uiyjG.png

    More AC, slightly less HP (which really, who cares) and one less Hdex. You can click my magelo link and look at the alt profile, magelo doesn't have T2 monk arms or helms yet, but the stuff it has isn't as good as the cult.


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    The difference between 5 extra cleave 25s and not having them is about 3.5% damage for me. It adds less during discs, more during non-disc. That is from burn situations, I assume it is more like 5% during a non-burn situation. If you see my post on fists of steel thread, it would directly add 125 to the flat damage portion of the equation.

    I try to avoid talking about this as much as possible to avoid attention to it, because like the hdex change, it will affect us far more than anyone else when it happens, and the impact will be larger than hdex for those of us who use it.

  13. #13
    Apostle Master Mris's Avatar
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    I used group level cultural in VoA. (The cleave is less noticeable on group, because it only gets 2 cleave slots, but it was still a boost, and still better stats having it in the first couple weeks. Still never got a full set of even T3, so it was worth it.) I gave up on cultural in RoF, though. I was tired of waiting for the nerf. Wish they'd just pull off the bandage and stop the anticipation. We all know (or think we know) it's coming, but it's gonna be one of those things that gets talked about for years, and never gets done. Then people are up in arms because the devs go silent for a while before tossing the nerf.

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    My opinion on this is probably fairly clear... But I think if you look at raid geared toons and how many are in full cultural the % is VERY low. In my guild which is now done with RoF T2 there were only 2 mains that even wanted the augs. I know some of this has to boil down to PP. It costs a lot of time or pp or both to go full cultural. And some toons just do not have the time for either/both. If you look at the non-visible H-Stats as a baseline comparing VOA to RoF, you can see that RoF so far has MUCH more uniformly implemented and lower H-Stats. Granted I have tried pretty hard using Augs to focus on H-Str and H-Agi (and of course AC) when you compare those stats with my AC, you can pretty quickly get to a comparison that makes Cultural very tempting. And imo if you are in a guild that is easy to get the augs and hard to get the t2 armor, it seems no brainer.
    Rten/Frank

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    Anyone have a comment about the pic I posted? Unless I'm missing something that I'm still not seeing from last night to tonight, the cult is better stats than the teir.
    (for AC I mean, there's one less hdex on the cult but otherwise the hstats are the same and the less ~200hme couldn't matter less to me)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Nedrom View Post
    Devs have said many times they want to 'break' the ability to stack cleave in cultural as it was not intentional, however, it's still yet to be done.

    Question is, do you want to buy that gear just to have it nerfed?
    I speak regularly to one of the devs and he tells me that personally he 'doesn't care' about this bug and its not currently on the team's radar to fix. That doesn't mean it can't suddenly rocket up their list to get fixed as other bugs have in the past. It also doesn't mean that I'm advocating we all go out and get into full cultural. I mean I'm in a guild where the augs are going to apps and bots and we haven't even tried EW yet, so they are there for me any time I want them, AND I feel pretty confident that a nerf will not be incoming soon. Despite that, I'm still sitting on my hands with respect to visibles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maereax View Post
    Anyone have a comment about the pic I posted? Unless I'm missing something that I'm still not seeing from last night to tonight, the cult is better stats than the teir.
    (for AC I mean, there's one less hdex on the cult but otherwise the hstats are the same and the less ~200hme couldn't matter less to me)
    That pic is interesting. I was basing my assumption of where cult would compare with T2 based on an SK comparison that my friend showed me. He is going from 7 cultural VoA slots to mostly RoF visibles save 1 or 2 cultural slots because of the stat difference. Apparently the stat difference is much narrower for us. Or perhaps its just the BP slot. Do the other visible slots compare as favorably for us I wonder...
    Last edited by Archus; 01-11-2013 at 09:16 PM. Reason: EDITED to respond to Maereax's question.

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    It's also worth mentioning that some ToV slots are worth considering, especially depending on what you're upgrading from.

    http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=75859

    Just a random bracer with 50ac more than t4 VoA.
    Rasputyn

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archus View Post

    That pic is interesting. I was basing my assumption of where cult would compare with T2 based on an SK comparison that my friend showed me. He is going from 7 cultural VoA slots to mostly RoF visibles save 1 or 2 cultural slots because of the stat difference. Apparently the stat difference is much narrower for us. Or perhaps its just the BP slot. Do the other visible slots compare as favorably for us I wonder...
    I made an alternate magelo with cultural gear in my visible slots (Called comparason, don't judge my spelling). It's got the crafted gear, the crafted symbols and the raid seals, but no slot 7 or powersource stats. This let's us directly compare to T2 RoF gear. I'll make pics and post them in a sec


  19. #19
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    http://imgur.com/a/vglY1#0

    I changed up how i was doing it in the middle, but it's all there.

    Also remember you'll gain 20AC from just the purity differences
    Last edited by Maereax; 01-12-2013 at 01:14 AM.


  20. #20
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    Also, apparently humans and iksars have different stats. Loool.
    http://i.imgur.com/OovKa.jpg


  21. #21
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    Even without the cleave, I think I'd still pick the cultural. Higher AC, not a huge sacrifice in other departments except kicks, and I can get FK to 70ish still.

  22. #22
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    That's kinda what I was thinking, but I don't know what/if T3 gear will/does exist.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Maereax View Post
    That's kinda what I was thinking, but I don't know what/if T3 gear will/does exist.
    Seems pretty certain that it'll exist. The question is will stat difference be enough to overcome the dps edge of cultural.

  24. #24
    Ascendant Transcendent Kaliaila's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maereax View Post
    That's what I thought, but that's not true, unless I'm missing something. I actually made a copy of my magelo and used rtens offslots and his cult is still better.
    What you're missing is the T1 armors. When you put them in there the cultural does generally fall in between T1 and T2; though a cursory does seem to put the Heroics closer to the T2 side. I think some of the stuff they set to more of T1.75 as opposed to T1.5. I say that the majority of the reason that the Cultural is close to, the same as, or (in the case of AC) better than T2 is that the difference between the tiers themselves is so small.
    Here are the T1 Armors if you want to look them over and see what I mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maereax View Post
    Also, apparently humans and iksars have different stats. Loool.
    http://i.imgur.com/OovKa.jpg
    That kind of sucks, for us humans. I will bet that it is because us humans get stuck with Druids on our cultural while Iksar have Bst on theirs. Bst are way more melee oriented than humans. I wonder if it doesn't have something to do with the new system for making gear that they started using this expansion. In the Past, the Mana, resists, and regular stats changed; but the HP, Endurance, Heroics, and mod2/3's were the same for both Human's and Iksar. With Regal, Endurance stays the same and everything else changes. So if you ask me it really does look like they ignored that this was cultural gear and instead just said this is for Monks and Bst's or Monks and Druids and set the stats accordingly.
    **Edit** For those curious as complete sets Human and Drakkin (both Mnk/Dru) Cultural armor are identical; while the Iksar Cultural set differs from the Human & Drakkin sets in the following ways: Str 28+9, Dex24+(-3), Sta -17+(-5), Cha -8+(-1), Wis -31+(-15),Agi 5+1, HP 263, Mana -875, Atk 21, Mana regen -8, Clairvoyance -51, Spell Dmg 8, DS Mitigation 8, & Heal Amount -26. This ONLY compares the base armor not any symbols or seals.

    I am guessing that the stat difference between T2 and T3 will be on par with the difference between T1 and T2. Not sure if that would overcome the benefits of cultural or not; as that would really be a matter of opinion for some.
    Last edited by Kaliaila; 01-21-2013 at 02:39 AM. Reason: Cultural differences by race added.
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    Tangible proof that iksar are better than humans.


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    What do you guys feel about loosing the impen reuse modifier when going cultural ?

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    I don't think it is worth it. Of all monkly abilities, I hold impenetrable as the greatest. I'm stoked that they did away with emblems so that cultural + class BP is possible now without a huge loss of stats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rapitiss View Post
    What do you guys feel about loosing the impen reuse modifier when going cultural ?
    I wouldn't do it. Do 7 slots of cultural and use a real BP.
    Rasputyn

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    Rasputyn's idea of 7 cultural and BP of worn is actually even better than he may realize. My testing was pointing to there being a cap on the additive value of the cleave augs. In HOA I was estimating it between 5-6 to cap it out. I did not take the time to test it down to specifics, but if that is correct, you could lose the chest cleave, have 6 other cleave slots, and still have exactly the same max hit (i.e. dps) while getting the benefit of the impen reduction.

    And not sure I have posted this previously, but I keep getting a dropped chest that I do not wear, but which I keep bagged for the clicky effect.
    Rten/Frank

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    Yeah, I believe the group chest from this xpac beats the t4 raid one. Procs are same size but higher procrate, and if I remember right the kicks are slightly larger.

    I've been rocking cult7 plus class bp for a while now. I started doing it when I had to kite wilo and needed cool down reduction.
    Last edited by tanecho; 01-23-2013 at 12:02 PM. Reason: Autocorrect

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by tanecho View Post
    I've been rocking cult7 plus class bp for a while now. I started doing it when I had to kite wilo and needed cool down reduction.
    *laugh* loved it for same reason. Over a min of immunity to the spells and AE's.
    Going for AC before AC was cool.

  32. #32
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    I'm saving currency for a BP. I fucking hate tradeskills, and already have to make at least one set of gear for an alt. Holding off on deciding on cultural to see about what we get as drops and, depending on how long it takes, finding out about how T3 gear looks


  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by tanecho View Post
    Yeah, I believe the group chest from this xpac beats the t4 raid one. ...
    Just posting this cos I check - the t1 RoF BP click is better in all respects to the VoA t4:

    VoA t4: http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=129528
    Rof t1: http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=133338
    Rof t2: http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=133638


    VoA t4 has 'Eight leavess' tech, proc 2100 hp damage (350 procmod) [max hits 20], finishing (350 procmod) with 716 @ 10000% accuracy
    RoF t1 has 'Five rings' tech, proc 2800 hp damage (550 procmod) [max hits 20], finishing (350 procmod) with 852 @ 10000% accuracy
    Rof t2 has 'Six Spirits' tech, proc 3150 hp damage (550 procmod) [max hits 20], finishing (350 procmod) with 951 @ 10000% accuracy

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    Right, I was talking about the group one. At work so can't check spell parser.

  35. #35
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    Ah riiiiggght!

    Grp ones:

    Rof grp t1: http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=132658
    Rof grp t2: http://eq.magelo.com/spell/37382 (not in lucy)


    grp t1 has 'Five rings' tech, proc 2100 hp damage (550 procmod) [max hits 20], finishing (350 procmod) with 790 @ 10000% accuracy
    grp t2 has 'six spirits' tech, proc 2363 hp damage (550 procmod) [max hits 20], finishing (350 procmod) with 883 @ 10000% accuracy

  36. #36
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    Really nice of them to give the spells the same name and different effects....

  37. #37
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    The fucking group click is better that my T4 raid click? Really?

    And the final proc on the T2 group is higher than the final proc of the T1 raid.

    Seriously, is it legal to hire a monkey? Is there ways to check the species of the employees of a company? can someone look into this?


  38. #38
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    Think that was the case in voa too, I didn't buy a t2 Bp because click was worse.

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    On a positive note, Chandrok posted on official forums that they decided against fixing cleave stacking, so stack away folks, it's the only way we have a chance at being competitive.

  40. #40
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    lol why are you guys surprised? I mean come on...


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