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Thread: Splitting groups with Echo of XXX, Did you know?

  1. #1
    Ex-Druid Monk-in-Training
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    Default Splitting groups with Echo of XXX, Did you know?

    Hey, I recently discovered that the Echo line can be used to quickly split out a mob from a group. Didn't know if this was common knowledge so I thought I would post.

    Say you have a line/group of mobs like

    1---2---3---4

    And you just want one.

    Target 1 and hit Echo. Depending on distance from your target, Echo will also hit 2 and 3, and 4 agroes. If 3 and 4 agro, hit 3 with Phantom first, then Echo 1.

    Or, if they are all hit by Echo, target the mob you want and Echo it, then hit it with your throwie thingie of choice. You must actually hit the mob to pull it, so I usually hit ranged 2-3 times to make sure I hit it. Having maxed throwing skill helps.

    Hope this helps somebody :-)
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    You can use Echo also to pull long distances through group of mobs. If you echo a set of mobs - any that aren't mezzed will be agro on you because of assist agro. Those mobs don't pass on agro to other mobs. So pop an invis potion and you can move mobs around to where you can ID and then re-echo if you got more than a a couple that assisted.

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    If you do the assist Echo trick, once you FD those mobs that were after you now can spread agro because they are no longer on assist agro but are direct agro because you FDed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nduma View Post
    You can use Echo also to pull long distances through group of mobs. If you echo a set of mobs - any that aren't mezzed will be agro on you because of assist agro. Those mobs don't pass on agro to other mobs. So pop an invis potion and you can move mobs around to where you can ID and then re-echo if you got more than a a couple that assisted.
    Is this the same as pet pulling? I can't remember the name of the SoD progression mission now, but necros use a pet pull to move the guy you're supposed to be protecting along quickly since direct agro screws up the mission. So would an echo pull work the same way on this mission?

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    You are talking about Safe Passage and I don't think this will work with it. You'd basically have to echo a mob in agro range of the guy you need to escort that is on the same faction and will assist, then have him follow you.

    The pet cheat is to use a low level pet to agro him - and the hold the pet/follow you and have the NPC chase the pet.

    The trick I was talking about is say you tag a mob and another mob assist it - that second mob isn't direct agro on you and as such when it runs by other mobs that would normally help it (call for assist code), it won't call for help. Pop an invis potion, if you get multiple mobs that assist, then you can still run them by mobs that would normally help if direct agro, and run them to a clearing, ID and then re-echo a smaller group.


    The pet pull trick does something similar, in that using a low level pet, mob wont' call for assist or something. The original was nerfed a while back but, for whatever reason works on Safe Passage.

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    Thanks, I understood your original point, but I was trying to understand the different forms of agro and whether the pet thing was the same type. I guess it's not exactly the same thing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by nduma View Post
    The pet pull trick does something similar, in that using a low level pet, mob wont' call for assist or something. The original was nerfed a while back but, for whatever reason works on Safe Passage.

    The reason it works on safe passage is different than the old pet pulling and does not need a grey pet. The problem with safe passage is that the colonel will FD if a PC gets direct aggro on him. He does not however feign if it is a pet on aggro. (It may be highest on aggro list as compared to just being on it I do not know). So he is still chasing you and the pet back to the safe spot. You can't train him directly or he would play dead.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nduma View Post
    You can use Echo also to pull long distances through group of mobs. If you echo a set of mobs - any that aren't mezzed will be agro on you because of assist agro. Those mobs don't pass on agro to other mobs. So pop an invis potion and you can move mobs around to where you can ID and then re-echo if you got more than a a couple that assisted.
    Sweet, thank you, I did not know this!
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    For pet pull to work in safe passage, you need to keep your pet alive so that the Colonel never gets actual aggro on the PC, for the above reasons.

    For pet pulls in general to work, at least the way they have always worked for me in the past, I would always use my lowest level pet so that it died to the mobs very first attack. My assumption is that the pet dies fast enough that *real* aggro (whatever you wanna call it) is never established on the PC. I have been able to successfully assist-pull mobs using this method. I may be off on the reasons, but it has certainly worked for me. This method would obviously not work in Safe passage, though - that is a completely different thing altogether.

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    The way pet pulling USED to work before it was nerfed was Mobs did not call otu for help against a green mob.

    So mage would send a BUFFED pet the higest grey con he had to attack teh mob, then immediately tell it to back off. The mob chased the pet and as long as the pet stayed alive when it came back the mob came back solo. If the pet died, the mob now had aggro on the player and would call for help.
    Going for AC before AC was cool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ughbash View Post
    The reason it works on safe passage is different than the old pet pulling and does not need a grey pet. The problem with safe passage is that the colonel will FD if a PC gets direct aggro on him. He does not however feign if it is a pet on aggro. (It may be highest on aggro list as compared to just being on it I do not know). So he is still chasing you and the pet back to the safe spot. You can't train him directly or he would play dead.
    If that's true, then it seems like assist agro from an indirect echo might not cause him to FD. I don't know if he's in a position that you could do that to him, though. Or maybe not because it's still a type of agro on a PC.

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    Well on a further note about Echo pulling, I think that in the crusade of people to fix rangers HA, we managed to nerf our own abilities. I SUSPECT that right now indirect aggro on MOB B from Echoing Mob A will after a certain amount of time (likey 18 seconds) turn into direct aggro on Mob B.

    Just as with Harmonious arrow you can no longer pull a mob all over the zone with impunity, I think Echo pulling will switch to direct aggro after a certain amount of time.
    Going for AC before AC was cool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ughbash View Post
    Well on a further note about Echo pulling, I think that in the crusade of people to fix rangers HA, we managed to nerf our own abilities. I SUSPECT that right now indirect aggro on MOB B from Echoing Mob A will after a certain amount of time (likey 18 seconds) turn into direct aggro on Mob B.

    Just as with Harmonious arrow you can no longer pull a mob all over the zone with impunity, I think Echo pulling will switch to direct aggro after a certain amount of time.
    Could be. I've never really taken advantage of that feature. I just use it as a quick way to get one out of a group. I never tried to then take that one across a zone full of mobs. heh

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    isnt it just more fun and efficient to pull everything??

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    Quote Originally Posted by mink View Post
    isnt it just more fun and efficient to pull everything??
    Not when you're soloing mobs without a healer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorkeyah View Post
    Not when you're soloing mobs without a healer.
    i was being facetious >

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ughbash View Post
    Well on a further note about Echo pulling, I think that in the crusade of people to fix rangers HA, we managed to nerf our own abilities. I SUSPECT that right now indirect aggro on MOB B from Echoing Mob A will after a certain amount of time (likey 18 seconds) turn into direct aggro on Mob B.

    Just as with Harmonious arrow you can no longer pull a mob all over the zone with impunity, I think Echo pulling will switch to direct aggro after a certain amount of time.
    Personally, I've seen no evidence of this. I ran Grg`nok from one side of Korafax to the other this way just the other day, past and through groups of mobs, including respawns just outside our camp. Well over 18 seconds for him to get there, but he still came single. Just maintain your invis and don't run by any SI and it's fine, from what I've seen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mris View Post
    Personally, I've seen no evidence of this. I ran Grg`nok from one side of Korafax to the other this way just the other day, past and through groups of mobs, including respawns just outside our camp. Well over 18 seconds for him to get there, but he still came single. Just maintain your invis and don't run by any SI and it's fine, from what I've seen.
    I will try it again, had happend to me twice pulling the same mob when I was invis. Nothing sees invis up there so that was not it. I used imitate death and then repulled but wondered if it was changed. Easiest spot to test it is probalby in Kurns with mask, though I guess in Korafac just running aroung that big loop would work also.
    Going for AC before AC was cool.

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    So coming back since March, i'm still a little hazy on the Echo line. I've mostly figured it out. But, in one instance I need some help.

    In CoD 4-way, what's the best advice to pulling Ulkat and Txenn?

    Thanks in advanced!

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    I log in my buddy's ranja and use Harmonious Arrow :P

    But when I can't use his ranja, we just clear a few mobs to pull them safely.

    We can still use the pacy and mez we have to make things easier.

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    These are some of the most challenging pulls I've done, but it is possible (although, the difficulty may not be worth it - that's up to you).

    For Txenn, if you look beside him there is a trash mob (noc maybe?) and then three other mobs. In that small group of three, on the right I believe is an ikaav. Phantom lull that mob. Then invis up, move *just* within range of echoing that trash mob to the right of Txenn along the wall. Turn to face the exit, start running and hit echo at the same time. If you time this perfectly and get a bit of luck, Txenn will come with at most one add. Hopefully you also did not aggro the ikaav that was on your left when entering the room. Either way, hit impen now and chill out just in the hallway, out of aggro of any other trash mobs, and let whatever mobs you pulled beat on you until they are all within Echo radius (there should hopefully only be two mobs, but maybe 1-2 more depending what happened with that ikaav). Imitate death, then pop up immediately and cast echo (while backing up, towards your camp, to hopefully avoid mezzing yourself - which would be bad). Then, finally, drag Txenn to your camp, who should now be solo.

    Ulkat is significantly more challenging, in my opinion, but it can be done. Invis up into his room and move right beside him, on his right hand side. You will notice a noc in either corner. Stand between one of those nocs and Ulkat himself, roughly halfway between them, maybe slightly closer to the noc trash mob. Start running towards the 4-way camp spot and immediately hit your mez followed by an instant cast invis potion as fast as humanly possible. *If* done right, you will get Ulkat and one other noc add only. If done wrong, you will pull the whole room. Pull them to the stairway, imitate, mez both, then bring ulkat who is now solo.

    I actually only have about a 20-30% success rate on Ulkat, so I mostly gave up on him. Expect to burn a lot of invis pots until you get the technique down.

    The short answer, of course, is to just grab yourself a ranger :p

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    Can confirm that the Txenn pull works, this also can be done very easily with a good enchanter, have the chanter paci the mobs to the left inside the room, echo the mob right in front of Txenn and Txen comes solo.

    As for Ulkat, I have not successfully pulled Ulkat single, tho I like Swamis technique, I'll have to run down there and practice that one. To kill him we usually just invis the whole group down to him. Set up the group in between him and one of the nocs, paci the noc on the opposite side of him and pull him. Noc behind us adds but usually have chanter or bard mez lock him, grapple Ulkat up onto the stairs. If the whole group stays against the wall on the stairs there, you won't get any other adds. If someone gets too far down the stairs, you'll likely pull another add form the next corner.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swami View Post
    These are some of the most challenging pulls I've done, but it is possible (although, the difficulty may not be worth it - that's up to you).

    For Txenn, if you look beside him there is a trash mob (noc maybe?) and then three other mobs. In that small group of three, on the right I believe is an ikaav. Phantom lull that mob. Then invis up, move *just* within range of echoing that trash mob to the right of Txenn along the wall. Turn to face the exit, start running and hit echo at the same time. If you time this perfectly and get a bit of luck, Txenn will come with at most one add. Hopefully you also did not aggro the ikaav that was on your left when entering the room. Either way, hit impen now and chill out just in the hallway, out of aggro of any other trash mobs, and let whatever mobs you pulled beat on you until they are all within Echo radius (there should hopefully only be two mobs, but maybe 1-2 more depending what happened with that ikaav). Imitate death, then pop up immediately and cast echo (while backing up, towards your camp, to hopefully avoid mezzing yourself - which would be bad). Then, finally, drag Txenn to your camp, who should now be solo.

    Ulkat is significantly more challenging, in my opinion, but it can be done. Invis up into his room and move right beside him, on his right hand side. You will notice a noc in either corner. Stand between one of those nocs and Ulkat himself, roughly halfway between them, maybe slightly closer to the noc trash mob. Start running towards the 4-way camp spot and immediately hit your mez followed by an instant cast invis potion as fast as humanly possible. *If* done right, you will get Ulkat and one other noc add only. If done wrong, you will pull the whole room. Pull them to the stairway, imitate, mez both, then bring ulkat who is now solo.

    I actually only have about a 20-30% success rate on Ulkat, so I mostly gave up on him. Expect to burn a lot of invis pots until you get the technique down.

    The short answer, of course, is to just grab yourself a ranger :p
    Actually, if you get it right AND the room is co-operating, you can get Ulkat completely single without FDing on the way back. Takes a little bit of experimentation. Rate this pull as a solid 9 on the pulling difficulty scale.

    Here's a hint, Echo is an AE, so subject to AE spell mechanics.

    Enjoy...

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    Edit: Redundance ftw!
    Last edited by cellic; 10-28-2009 at 06:22 PM.

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