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Thread: Status Update

  1. #561
    Guest

    Default Re: .

    Not really Wubby...



    The new class is a replacement class for melee's. It will have no balance issues because they already designed it to be superior.



    /sarcasm off



    Balance is a fine line. Sony has gone out of it's way to insure that the classes are unbalanced in current game world. They are working on fixing the bugs that their Knee-jerk reactions have caused within the classes now, but I see little hope of ever seeing actual balance of monks. For some reason, someone at SOE thinks that giving alot of new toys fixes the overall problem. Do I like the new toys? Sure I do! anything that will help me get out of the mess that SOE put me into in the first place will help. Do I think the new toys make up for the majority of the class problems? Hell NO!



    Face it...

    Dodge from behind is a garbage toy, but I see why they put it in there. After all if you planned to have all the mobs almost garentee stunning from behind, it makes sense to give it to a pull class. For that fact, if they were just going to add something to the game that almost totally nullifies something they gave us why bother? I got stunned by a green mob sitting at a druid ring yesterday...for gods sakes why?!!

    Lull...I like the idea but from all reports it's being impleented wrong. Why give a lull if you have to end up splitting a mob the oldfasioned way anyway? Most of the encountrs I run across have a chain agro effect. More than one mob withing the range of the target and I still have to FD pull. 2 mobs would make it so we could at least break an agro chain. Oh well will see what I can do wth it.

    New discs? I like them, but only use three of them because the timers are still outrageous for the most part and the cost is still up there. Eventually these should get fixed, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

    New AA's are cool but how is that going to help the class out as a whole? Even though I'm starting to get up there in level, I know there are ALOT of monks that will not be able to take advantage of these for quite some time, so we have once again, helped the L33ts and left the lowers behind.



    When will SOE realize that new toys does not equal balance? The mitigation nerf wa brought on by another melee class that suddenl felt insecure about their abilities so complained and obviously got the right peoples ear. With their new stuff that wouldnt be a problem. Give back the mitigation that was taken away (that by the way was also one of the reasons we have this stupid weight limit) or drop the weight limit so we can outfit for survival. Monks will never be the "chosen" tanks. There's nothing to worry about. Aside from the freakshows our class provides from time to time, the VAST majority of us cannot do the superhuman accomplishments that one or two monks on all servers can do.



    This has run longer than I expected, and Wub just playing around ya dig? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":b">


    </p>

  2. #562
    Enlightened Grandmaster Wubao's Avatar
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    Default Re: .

    "The new class is a replacement class for melee's. It will have no balance issues because they already designed it to be superior. "



    <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin">



    So true. So very very true. Your sarcasm is at least appreciated by someone. ;-)



    "Dodge from behind is a garbage toy,"



    I agree. I've used it as a defense in a lot of posts, but only because it fits the "technical" description. People above in the various pages and pages of this thread who've complained that they aren't giving changes that affect EVERY monk, well, dodge from behind affects every monk. People above who've complained that they aren't looking to enhance monk pulling, well, dodge from behind is an enhancement to monk pulling.



    It's just not a very good one. Even I'm not "soggie" enough to state that it's a good change. (And yes, I just used Soggie as an adjective) :P



    "I got stunned by a green mob sitting at a druid ring yesterday...for gods sakes why?!!"



    God that's my biggest gripe with the class. Ever since they nerfed monk mitigation, stuns from behind are rampant. And that screws up pulling at its most basic level. The only reason I can figure they put this feature into the game was to TRY and balance kiting. Alas, it just doesn't seem to work that way. And the class it affects the MOST is the monk class as we "kite" mobs back to the group.



    I can still pull with stuns from behind. But it's certainly cost me a good dozen or so deaths in the past year. Needless deaths.


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  3. #563
    Guest

    Default Re: .

    Hmm, I wonder if SoE would consider making us stun immune instead of riposte immune. Have no idea what that would mean for the high end game, but I would prefer it for when I'm pulling at my level.



    I hope you're right about them fixing melee when they fix berzerkers. Although I don't really remember what happened to other hybrids when beastlords went live. Too long ago. hehe



    I'm just hoping that having even more competition for a DPS role doesn't get us "soggied" even more. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":"> (I prefer the soggied verb to the monked verb)


    [48 Monk] Kaiden (Iksar)</p>

  4. #564
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    Default Getting the Shaft

    Monks are getting the shaft. It's totally sick and some of us are beginning to submit to SoE's claims. 1st, There is no way in hell that a beastlord should be able to tank better than a Monk. The fact is that they do a much better job than monks at tanking. Not only that, but their pets are as good at it as we are. That is pathetic designing. Not to mention, that they don't even have to tank. My guild leader is a level 65 Beastlord and solos in PoI on a regular basis. He can do 2 mobs at once, no problem. His pet takes one and he takes the other. I challange SoE to make a monk this powerful. Give me the ability to solo 2 mobs in PoI at the same time and I won't complain ever again about class balance. The example I used here was intended to show how extremely out of balance those 2 calsses are. I have never seen a Monk even attempt to solo 1 mob in PoI. Why? Because even with HoV and other buffs he would be dead. Lets move on to other PoP zones. I have a level 60 Bard in my guild that routinely solos in PoN without incident. Again, if the other classes are capable of this kind of power then why is it that you (SOE) are so opposed to giving monks some real upgrades. I mean come on. I don't give a crap about lull. It's totally useless to me except maybe in Ldon. I can pull just fine without any spells right now. I'm not saying to make us into hybrids. Personally, i think thats the whole problem with EQ at the moment. It is the stupid infusion of hybrids that have thrown the entire game out of balance. I want DPS that is equal to or better than rogues. Or, I want to be able to tank as well as warriors. One of the two. Anything else makes us inferior to those two classes respectively. And being a pure melee class we HAVE to be better at melee and tanking than hybrids. DUH!!! This brings me to my thoery as to why SOE is screwing monks.



    Its because they want us to give up playing monks to take on new characters. The infusion of the berzerker class is just another way of phasing out monks. Why would they want to do that? Because it makes them more money. If you decide to start over and create another class because it is more powerful than your own, you will be paying those monthly fees longer. Ergo, the beastlord and now the berzerker. On the other hand, if they didn't create these new classes, some of us, after reaching end game status, would get bored and cancel or sort of fade away from the game. Hence, no money for SoE. Personally, I'm just gonna quit. I'd rather play FF X and be able to have a good time than deal with these pathetic teasers like "lull" designed to keep us hanging on to hope.




    </p>

  5. #565
    Ex-Druid Monk-in-Training
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    Default Re: Getting the Shaft

    I have to say in my own opinion I am not fond of the endurance idea.



    I like the idea of the disciplines being split into 4 pools and the ability to use one from each pool while others are cooling down. That is a good idea and one that helps increase monks utility.

    Endurance however is trying to balance melee by itemisation/spell craft.



    In my own opinion all pure melee abilities should be balanced not on what End gear you have, or if you get the KEE from your local shaman, it should be based on your level to obtain the skill - kick > flying kick for example - and then the skills should be balanced via the use of cool down timers.



    Would it be too much to ask for additional melee special attacks, much like the opening system abilities but without the opening system and endurance cost.



    Why not have a dragon punch esq ability with a root/stun component that is not AA obtained but a level based skill, however when used it greys out our other attacks like F kick etc, but has a long re use timer.

    Similar to additional disciplines in a way, but in these cases monks can choose the best attacks to use situationally.



    As a monk my main peeves are based purely on itemisation. I am disapointed that casters and hybrids will gain more benefit from the majority of items due to high hps/mana then pure melee.

    I am appalled that a monk will gain 145 hps from ep arms, where as mana users will gain 135hps 145 mana. The 10 hp gain pure melees get is not proportional to the 145 mana, and esspecially not when you add up all the items and it comes to a 50 hp advantage over 700mana.



    Obviously at this point in the game they are not going to readdress the poor itemisation in PoP, however I wish they would stop trying to fix and balance classes with it, and work on the actual class abilities themselves.



    As has been stated numerous times, monks should tank better then druids, and just as well if not better then beastlords.

    Currently I see monks as the red headed stepchild of the leather class based purely on itemisation, we gain the least from it. I see little clarification that SOE are looking to address melee concerns in a real concerted effort, and instead will look to balance us with Gimmicks, much like the "shield" ability for warriors.




    </p>

  6. #566
    Guest

    Default Re: Getting the Shaft

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>As a monk my main peeves are based purely on itemisation. I am disapointed that casters and hybrids will gain more benefit from the majority of items due to high hps/mana then pure melee.

    I am appalled that a monk will gain 145 hps from ep arms, where as mana users will gain 135hps 145 mana. The 10 hp gain pure melees get is not proportional to the 145 mana, and esspecially not when you add up all the items and it comes to a 50 hp advantage over 700mana.<hr></blockquote>Itemization been screwing us one way or another for a long, long time...



    That warrior 32/30 is down to 50 pp in bazaar. I kid you not.



    - Ssarvhok




    </p>

  7. #567
    Guest

    Default Re: Getting the Shaft

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Its because they want us to give up playing monks to take on new characters. The infusion of the berzerker class is just another way of phasing out monks. <hr></blockquote>

    I hate to say it, but I think this statement contains more than a glimmer of truth. It is the lower level monks who were hit the hardest by the mitigation nerf. It is the inexperienced, lower level monks who have suffered the most from the loss of pulling experience. End game monks have lost balance to be sure, but not as much as the rest of the class.



    Isn't the best way to phase out a class to eliminate the desire to start a toon of that class? Open a new server and I would bet that there will be fewer monks created on that server than any other class. As one example, Beastlords would probably outnumber us considerably. We are supposed to be one of their parent classes, yet they overpower us in off-tanking abilities (their pets off-tank better than I can at my level), solo abilities and utility. (This is NOT a plea to nerf BST - I don't want to see anyone nerfed)



    As the numbers shrink, the incentive to a gaming company who thinks first of profits and second of the game mechanics (can you say SoE) to fix a class diminishes. Eventually there won't be enough monks (due to the lack of new monks being rolled to replace retired monks) to warrant spending any reasonable amount of time trying to balance the class at all. Seeing the creation of a new class that will compete with us for groups and seeing nothing proposed that will give us anything substantial towards balancing us and it isn't surprising that monks (lower level in particular) get depressed and frustrated and consider rerolling a new toon or quitting EQ all together.



    I dare any SoE employee to say I am wrong about my thoughts here and, more importantly, to back up saying I am wrong with some facts.


    <hr />
    Frenzeed 62nd Grandmaster
    Dragons of Mist
    Ayonae Ro



    Fren's Finery



    <div style="text-align:center"><span style="font-family:TimesNewRoman;">We must strive to act judiciously and with patience, for those traits lead to the growth of wisdom.</span></div></p>

  8. #568
    Guest

    Default Re: Getting the Shaft

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Isn't the best way to phase out a class to eliminate the desire to start a toon of that class? Open a new server and I would bet that there will be fewer monks created on that server than any other class.<hr></blockquote>



    Will the berzerkers be the straw that broke the monk's back?



    EDIT: Link didn't work the first time.


    Lindo - 65 Monk.</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub147.ezboard.com/bmonklybusiness43508.showUserPublicProfile?gid=thu los>Thulos</A>* at: 1/26/04 12:34 pm

  9. #569
    Guest

    Default Re: Getting the Shaft

    The new class has been created to make a time sink for players who are running out of things to do in EQ. Sony hopes that instead of quitting the game, they will instead spend the next year or so playing a berserker. The profits to be made from this far outweigh any lost revenues from monks quitting in disgust.


    <div style="text-align:center"><span style="font-size:large;">Argfeld</span></div>

    <div style="text-align:center">Order of the Scattered Winds - Bertoxxulous</div>

    <div style="text-align:center"><span style="color:purple;"><span style="text-decoration:underline">Reverse the Monk Mitigation Nerf!</span></span></div></p>

  10. #570
    Guest

    Default Re: Status Update

    Thank god 'opening' crap is scrapped






    Crap this Master wears

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  11. #571
    Guest

    Default Re: Status Update

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>But as for expecting that they will take the same path and amount of attention, given SoE's history with pure melees in general (and monks specifically), thats another story.<hr></blockquote>

    Be more specific. I'd like to know SoE's history specifically towards monks.



    Btw, it's cool to see my name flying around even when I don't post. Did I really affect you that much?? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">




    <div style="text-align:center">S O G G I E X A R C A T I O N

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  12. #572
    Ex-Druid Monk-in-Training
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    Default Re: Status Update

    I'd say your "effect" was much like an anus, Soggie.



    Useful for spewing crap, but not many brag about having one.


    Xaynn Bakkura

    Iksar Monk

    Just a Silly Gecko



    To repeat what others have said, requires education; to challenge it, requires brains.

    -- Mary Pettibone Poole, A Glass Eye at a Keyhole, 1938



    <span style="color:purple;">Reverse the Monk Mitigation Nerf!</span></p>
    Xaynn Bakkura - 70 Monk, Stromm
    My Gimp Gear

    Panicking killed more toons than any mob ever did.
    And without a plan, all you got left to do is Panic.

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  13. #573
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    Default Re: Status Update

    Although I agree with the message an earlier poster was trying to get across, I have to point out that he was in error with regards to monks soloing in PoI. I can solo there, but I have to go all out, I can only solo the wussiest stuff, one at a time, and I have a lot of down time. This was prior to the recent improvements. I found this out when I attempted (unsuccessfully) to farm a quest item in that zone.




    <div style="text-align:center"><span style="font-size:large;">Argfeld</span></div>

    <div style="text-align:center">Order of the Scattered Winds - Bertoxxulous</div>

    <div style="text-align:center"><span style="color:purple;"><span style="text-decoration:underline">Reverse the Monk Mitigation Nerf!</span></span></div></p>

  14. #574
    Guest

    Default Re: Status Update

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Be more specific. I'd like to know SoE's history specifically towards monks.<hr></blockquote>Well, not counting the monk mitigation nerf, let's look what SoE has done over the last year and see the changes, both positive and negative, to pure melees, hybrids, and casters. I would go back farther, but they don't archive more than one year back apparently.



    +/- C(caster) = helps or hurts druid, shaman, cleric, necromancer, mage, wizard, or enchanter

    +/- H(ybrid) = helps or hurts beastlords, shadow knights, paladins, rangers, or bards

    +/- M(elee) = helps or hurts monks, rogues, or warriors



    NOTE: I've stripped out everything that helps or hurts all three categories (UI changes, etc.), spelling errors, or things that only affect PvP. Anything that helps any of the classes in the given category in anyway (ie, would make them more valuable in groups, guilds, or solo), is marked with the class category.



    Remember that this is basically all fixes or nerfs (even small ones), to show not just how the classcategories have been changed, but how much attention SoE has paid to them.



    January 9th, 2003

    [+H] ** Songs Window **

    [+M] - Wu's Attack should now work correctly.

    [+C] - Incoming damage now interacts with Wrath of the Wild and other rune-type spells in their proper order.

    [+C] - Pact of Shadow and Shadow Compact will once again heal player characters.

    [-C] - Charmed Pets will no longer remain charmed after the owner dies.

    [-CH] - Lowered the duration of calm-type spells that effect creatures level 50 and over.



    January 15th, 2003



    [-C] - NPCs will now notice Druid and Shaman Percentage Heal spells in a manner similar to traditional healing spells.

    [+C] - Removed the chance for slow spells to be reversed from the 17 NPCs that had this ability.

    [+CH] - Raised all recast times below 2.25 seconds up to 2.25 seconds. This is a change in the spell data as the first part of a two-part change needed to correct the "Recast time not met" problem.

    [+H] - The range on the Bard Ability "Boastful Bellow" has been increased slightly.

    [+H] - Fixed a bug with Harm Touch that was not allowing it to increase the standard amount per level over level 60.

    [+H] - Fixed a bug with effects in the Songs window. They were not getting removed on the client when the bard was dispelled.



    January 28th, 2003

    [+C] - Spells on spell book pages 33 to 50 can now be deleted for those who were having troubles.

    [+CH] - Players should no longer get out of range message when trying to target a player on a horse just because the horse has moved a little (but is still in range).

    [-CH] - Lull, Soothe, Calm, Pacify, Harmony, Calm Animal, and Rest the Dead should no longer give the: "Your spell did not take hold," message.

    [+H] - Bard Songs with a "Rune" component should be working properly.

    [+H] - Sha's Advantage and Savagery are now available on vendors in the Plane of Knowledge.

    [+C] - Infusion of spirit should no longer overwrite Speed of Vallon.

    [+C] - Sense Summoned will now sense elementals of most types.

    [+M] - Monk discipline Resistance should increase resistances properly now.

    [+C] - The Shaman AA ability Spirit Call should now finish casting if you regain concentration after interruption.

    [+H] - Spirit of Snow and Spirit of Flame will be dropping more frequently now.

    [-H] - Removed Paladin and Ranger from the list of characters that could use the Hateful Balanced Zweihander. It is only usable by worshippers of Innoruuk, and was never meant to be used by these classes.

    [-C] - Killing Kazen Fecae is no longer a viable path to the completion of the Necromancer Epic quest.



    February 4th, 2003

    [+MH] - The melee button for Ulaks, Martial weapons and Two-Handed Piercing weapons should appear to be depressed when attacking.

    [+CH] - Lowered the mana cost of Yaulp I, Yaulp II, Yaulp III, and Yaulp IV to increase the value of these spells

    [+C] - Theft of Thought works properly now, it was draining all of the caster's mana, no matter who the target was.

    [+HC] - All pet spells will now get focused from any pet focusing spell/item. This means, for example, that summoning haste will work on Beastlord and Necromancer pets.

    [+HC] - Fixed a bug that caused pet health bar to disappear if when trying to charm when a pet already exists.

    [+C] - Divine Barrier now does all of its healing in a single burst instead of as regeneration.

    [-M] - Removed Rogues from the list of classes on the Elegant Darkwood Katana, since it is a two-handed slashing weapon.

    [+H] - Extended Notes now works on area of Effect songs as well as group songs.



    February 28th, 2003

    [+M] - The rogue hide message "You have moved and are no longer hidden!" is filtered as a "skill" message and not an "other" message

    [+C] - Made a change to the way Planes of Power spell quests work. All spells usable by more than one class are now obtained from the same level quest. If a spell is level 61 (Ethereal) for one class and level 65 (Rune Word) for another, both will have it as a reward on their Ethereal quest.

    [+H] - Fixed a bug that prevented the owners of charmed warders from controlling or re-summoning their warders after the charm breaks.

    [+C] - Convergence should not eat its component as often on some types of spell failures.

    [+C] - Corrected the spell book icons for several Enchanter spells.

    [+C] - In a previous update, we added a message when a person recasts a charm spell on their charmed pet. Recasting charm on an existing pet did not actually re-charm the pet, it just failed silently and appeared to succeed. The new message is now displayed intentionally in these cases. This is not a bug.



    March 13th, 2003

    [+C] - Added the ability for any caster to research dropped priest spells using the research books found in Gunthak. The research notes for these spells can be found in the Plane of Knowledge. Wizards, Enchanter, Magician, and Necromancers are able to create any of the researchable priest spells.

    [+H] - Beastlord pets can now be summoned in the Plane of Sky.

    [+C] - Removed the chance to fail on the two combines for the Pureblood quest.

    [+C] - Modified the Pureblood quest to return Blood of Nadox for Shaman characters. In addition, any Shaman who has previously done the quest and received Pure Blood will be able to obtain the Blood of Nadox scroll simply by hailing the quest NPC.

    [+CH] - Increased the drop rate significantly on the quest items for the ShadowKnight and Necromancer Legacy of Ykesha spells.

    [+C] - Added an NPC to the list of monsters that can be summoned by Magicians in the Torgiran mines.

    [+CH] - Force Shield will now stack with the Spiritual Purity line no matter what order they are cast in.

    [+C] - O'Keil's Levity will no longer be overwritten by other damage shields.

    [+C] - Shaman of Mithaniel Marr will now be able to scribe the Imbue: Diamond spell

    [+C] - Changed Strength of the Diaku to a single target strength and dexterity buff.

    [+C] - Changed Talisman of the Diaku to a group strength and dexterity buff.

    [+C] - Replaced the shaman spell Aim of the Ginda with Talisman of Alacrity, which is a group haste spell.

    [+C] - Replaced the shaman spell Talisman of the Gindan with Tiny Terror, which is a group shrink spell.

    [+MH] - Clockwork Observer legs and boots should now recharge.

    [+MH] - Class 3 Wood Point Arrows now have a range of 5 instead of 0.

    [+MH] - Changed Blessed Scout Arrows, Blessed Warrior Arrows, Mithril Scout Arrows, Mithril Warrior Arrows, Mithril Champion Arrows and Blessed Champion Arrows to be ammo instead of ranged.



    M: +6 total

    H: +18 total

    C: +26 total



    Thats all the patches for the first quarter of 2003. I'm too tired to do anymore, but the point is pretty obvious. SoE is changing/fixing/modifying Hybrids and Casters much more than pure Melee. They're always tweaking them, even the little things that bug players. Pure melee on the other hand have barely changed at all. Granted, most of these changes aren't drastic, and players with spells are generaly more complicated, but throw us a friggin bone here. I know the first round of offensive melee changes drastically changed my in game experience! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes">



    If you wanna check out others, go to: eqlive.station.sony.com/u...rchive.jsp

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Did I really affect you that much??<hr></blockquote>Probably. Most monks aren't huge fans of players who make claims that disagree with what 95% of the community thinks...

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>If you reverse it, monks will become overpowered, and nobody will like that, including myself, a 65 monk, who's been playing for 4+ years now.<hr></blockquote>(emphasis added)

    ...and then asks the devs to ignore them outright, and seems to take joy in their obvious misery with the current situation...

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>I find it very gratifying that they are actually displaying the kind of reaction they have when SoE actually makes a change that they don't favor.<hr></blockquote>For the record, I don't totally disagree with you. Given the right amount of utility, I could care less about the mitigation nerf, but the fact is the mitigation nerf also nerfed one of our primary utilities, that of a puller, and short of being super rich or level 65 most of us don't have much to fall back on. Combined with the changes in the itemization and spells in the game since when the nerf went in, I hardly see it as justified anymore.



    And the other players shouldn't jump you for stating your opinion, but you go about stating your opinion in an extremely offensive way.



    But then again, you're writing from the standpoint of a 65 monk in (what is to my eyes at least) godly equipment, with a pocket shaman for duoing with. Try playing a monk untwinked with no help on a younger server and see if your opinion changes. It's definately changed mine.


    [51 Disciple] Kaiden (Iksar)</p>

  15. #575
    Guest

    Default Re: Status Update

    100% AGREE Kaiden.



    I am a 65 Monk who does not have godly eqpt and it is still a very hard life....but the struggle to get new items and take out new mobs makes the eventual success much more rewarding. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">


    <hr color="yellow" height="5">
    <center><table border="0" bgcolor="yellow"><tr><td><table bgcolor="blue" border="0"><tr><td><center><font color="yellow" size="2" face="Verdana"><font color="yellow">Baron Taiel Chaiser
    65th Transcendent Monk
    Seeker of the true balance of mind and body
    Proud Officer of <font color="yellow">Destiny's Flame</font>, Torvonnilous<font color="yellow"><font color="blue">!!</center></td></tr></table></tr></td></table>51 Shaman Kindamor Onicone Destiny's Flame
    27 Cleric Shortfuse Everhealin Destiny's Flame

    "A purpose can be found for every situation and individual.
    To achieve perfection is to perceive this truth." (Kaiaren)</p>

  16. #576
    Monk Disciple
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Uk, Nottingham
    Posts
    115

    Default Re: Status Update

    Kinda what I said, the hybrids got linked to the caster balancing and got upgrades (some seriously needed) but the pure melee were forgotten in the entire affair.



    Revoking the mitigation nerf given all of the other chances done for the class as a whole would not in any way throw the balancing off and increase the enjoyability for some people when playing the class.

    The melee upgrades need to get back on track, the starters were nice but don't leave us with a sharpened appetite now that you guys have started <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> .


    Xandria, Bard of 56 songs and proud officer of Guardians of Blood, at your service.



    Sauropod, Monk of 11 kata's.



    My pleasure and my duty.</p>
    Xandria, Bard of 63 songs,

    At your service, my pleasure and my duty.

  17. #577
    Guest

    Default Re: Status Update

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>The new class has been created to make a time sink for players who are running out of things to do in EQ. Sony hopes that instead of quitting the game, they will instead spend the next year or so playing a berserker. The profits to be made from this far outweigh any lost revenues from monks quitting in disgust. <hr></blockquote>

    Agree Argfeld.



    The more I see of the Berserker class and their abilities the more I am leaning toward retiring. Check out that Are Zerkers the last straw thread . . . looks like they may be getting an aggro reducer now, small but still helpful. That same thread has a reference (at or near the bottom when I post this) to a Zerker board that has an abilities list. It's pretty interesting since they get several of our disciplines and the warrior Evasive Discipline. There are a few things there listed for all melees that might be interesting too (snares for example).



    All in all I've gotten almost 4 years of fun with EQ. But it just isn't as much fun any more. It will be even less fun if Berserkers prove to be a class more desired in groups than I am as I fear might be the case. I will buy one more expansion and see.



    Can't wait for WoW.


    <hr />
    <span style="color:yellow;font-family:verdana;font-size:medium;">FRENZEED</span>
    62 Grandmaster
    <span style="color:yellow;font-family:comic sans ms;font-size:medium;">Vallis Aspectus</span>
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    Fren's Finery
    <span style="color:yellow;font-family:Comic Sans;"><div style="text-align:center">We must strive for patience, for with patience comes wisdom.</div></span></p>

  18. #578
    Guest

    Default monk fix

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>People above in the various pages and pages of this thread who've complained that they aren't giving changes that affect EVERY monk, well, dodge from behind affects every monk. People above who've complained that they aren't looking to enhance monk pulling, well, dodge from behind is an enhancement to monk pulling.<hr></blockquote>



    Again I must try and clarify my point. The no-riposte while tanking thing was put forward by SOE as the MAJOR monk fix... to replace the opening system as the MAJOR fix, which was scrapped.



    I don't give a toss about minor fixes that might affect some rather than all monks, but i do want a part of the MAJOR fix. That was my principal objection.



    But looking at the GoD abilties it looks like they are addressing some of our major concerns via AAs anyway (eg. spells not breaking FD, drunken master extra defence etc)... which is something they said they WOULD NOT DO!! (ie. relying upon an expansion to fix a class).



    You suck SOE... pack of lying, thieving, greedy bastards... give us a bone only for the meat to be paid for as usual.






    </p>

  19. #579
    Guest

    Default monk fix

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>The no-riposte while tanking thing <hr></blockquote>



    sorry should have read "The no-riposte whilst NOT tanking thing"



    (I can't edit my posts for some reason)


    </p>

  20. #580
    Guest

    Default Re: monk fix

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Quote:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Caster re-balancing began at the end of Velious and went on through Luclin and on into Planes of Power and Legacy of Ykesha.



    That's quite a long period of time, where casters were given many MANY small changes, tweaks and additions to their spells and their abilities and their roles and their powers.



    It's not out of line to think melee rebalancing can take the same path with the same amount of attention.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    No, it's not out of line to think that melee rebalancing can take the same path and amount of attention. It's not even out of line to think that they should take the same path and attention.



    But as for expecting that they will take the same path and amount of attention, given SoE's history with pure melees in general (and monks specifically), thats another story.<hr></blockquote>

    Maybe I missed something here. Based on your full listing of changes, it seems as though they are taking the same path and attention, so why not expect them to. Secondly, to my recollection, they really haven't nerfed monks quite as much as they have other classes over the 4 year period that EQ has been out. Many of the "tweaks" you talk about are due to re-balancing changes they made in the earlier years, which would obviously skew the + numbers you provided in your detailed list.



    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Quote:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Did I really affect you that much??

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Probably. Most monks aren't huge fans of players who make claims that disagree with what 95% of the community thinks...<hr></blockquote>

    Exactly, but it also doesn't mean he's wrong (nor right).



    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>And the other players shouldn't jump you for stating your opinion, but you go about stating your opinion in an extremely offensive way.<hr></blockquote>

    And they don't?



    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Try playing a monk untwinked with no help on a younger server and see if your opinion changes. It's definately changed mine.<hr></blockquote>

    Oh, I thought that's what I did, 5 times over. And I still have no real complaints about monks, before and after I had a shaman aiding me.






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  21. #581
    Guest

    Default Re: monk fix

    He's baaaaaaack.


    <hr />
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    I love you guys! =)
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  22. #582
    Guest

    Default Re: monk fix

    And hes dumber than ever!


    </p>

  23. #583
    Monk Disciple
    Join Date
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    Posts
    160

    Default Re: monk fix

    I dont care about you stating your opinion soggie...nothing wrong with that. I do however have issues with how you present it.



    DO NOT PERSONALLY ATTACK OTHERS WHILE STATING YOUR OPINION!



    You will never ever get your point across by personally attacking/quoting an individual. Just state how you feel. Others will state how they feel about it. If your opinion is not popular that is the only way to go. Slowly if people agree with you, you might actually began to have a following. Im still trying to understand why you stand to argue with nothing to gain. I wont argue with you....this is a message board for a video game. Certainly doesnt make me feel better to be right and it absolutely wont help me in RL. I dont agree with your outlook either. I have played as long as you have as well. But I wont flame ya for it either...fight the GOOD fight my brother.


    <div style="text-align:center">



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  24. #584
    Guest

    Default Re: monk fix

    Samoa, that's the main problem. I did attempt to post my opinions w/o attacking anyone, but turnaround is fair play. Initially, I was personally attacked, and now I understand that it is something that won't be punished by the mods (even though it's stated in the ruleset), so I will attack those that attack me. Call it childish, call it revenge. Either way, I'll play by the same rules you follow. If you want to have an honest straightforward conversation, I'll follow your lead, and meet you there. If you want to name call, I'll follow your lead and meet you there too. If you want to call parses and/or personal speculation fact, I will follow your lead again, and meet you there too.



    You are right about having nothing to gain, though. I don't stand to gain anything, nor do I want to, especially the approval of anyone on MB. However, I DO stand to lose something, and that is just as important to me as it is for 99% of the population having something to gain (or re-gain). To put it in an easily comparable perspective - I would lose as much monk enjoyment by reversing the nerf, as you lost when the nerf took place.



    As for making a point. In my short time of posting, I have already realized that if you are not already in good graces with the majority of the population, or if you don't agree with the majority, you are cast out and your "point" is not taken, regardless of how much background info/proof you supply. Most people here post their opinion without even supplying that proof/info, and aren't flamed nearly as badly as I have been. What makes them any different than me? Before you answer, read my very first post on the "Mitigation or???" thread and tell me I didn't post my opinion like anyone else. That entire post is full of opinions based on.......opinions. The answer to my question: Nothing makes them different than me, absolutely nothing. Well, maybe one thing - the way they're treated compared to how I am treated. Oh well, as I said, I'm not trying to gain anyones approval.




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  25. #585
    Guest

    Default Re: monk fix

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>- I would lose as much monk enjoyment by reversing the nerf, as you lost when the nerf took place.<hr></blockquote>



    Explain please how you would lose "monk enjoyment", I'm curious.



    The game cant please everyone and you are clearly in the minority so, I guess if they ever do reverse it, you will just have to suck it up.








    If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me.

    -Alice Roosevelt Longworth



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  26. #586
    Guest

    Default Re: monk fix

    The problem soggie is you have NOT posted proof. You have posted vague, EXTREMELY questionnable OPINIONS which you scream at top of your lungs are proof. That is not the case and that's why nobody takes you seriously.


    </p>

  27. #587
    Guest

    Default Re: monk fix

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>If you want to call parses and/or personal speculation fact, I will follow your lead again, and meet you there too.<hr></blockquote>

    Love the comparison between parsed data and wild speculation. . .



    and remember boys and girls:



    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Evidence = Apple analogy<hr></blockquote>


    </p>

  28. #588
    Guest

    Default Re: monk fix

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>The AC gap did widen a little bit. This may be on the total end of the spectrum, but warrior AC can get as high as what? 2200 or so, in full AC gear?



    Monk AC can get as high as 1800 or so in AC gear.



    And yes, this is assuming you are in a guild that farms quarm weekly. The difference in AC really isn't all that great, imo (for what it's worth). A difference of 400-500 AC at this point in the game isn't as bad as it was before PoP itemization came into play.<hr></blockquote>

    Excerpt

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr><span style="font-family:courier;">TABLE

    CLS AC SHLD DB DI AVG MIT%

    WAR 2271 15% 87 21 223.3 71.1

    WAR 1380 0% 102 21 273.2 64.5

    MNK 1854 2% 100 22.1 311.0 55.0

    *MNK 1635 2% 100 22.1 313.2 54.5

    MNK 1331 0% 102 22.1 317.4 54.0

    MNK 1063 0% 102 22.1 344.4 52.5

    RNG 1728 2% 100 22.1 292.1 59.5

    RNG 1308 0% 102 22.1 316.4 54.2</span><hr></blockquote>



    So, um Soggie. How do you reconcile that difference in available AC with these results, showing that a monk with 500 AC more (not to mention the 2% shielding) than a warrior still mitigates 9.5% less?


    </p>

  29. #589
    Guest

    Default Re: monk fix

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>The game cant please everyone and you are clearly in the minority so, I guess if they ever do reverse it, you will just have to suck it up.<hr></blockquote>

    This is a great statement. If they ever do reverse it, I will suck it up. Contrastly, since they haven't, you should suck it up.



    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>The problem soggie is you have NOT posted proof. You have posted vague, EXTREMELY questionnable OPINIONS which you scream at top of your lungs are proof. That is not the case and that's why nobody takes you seriously.<hr></blockquote>

    First off, I haven't done very much (if any) screaming about my opinions/facts/etc. I have posted them, and I guess it's hard to decipher what is a passionate statement and what isn't. Anyways, I have posted about as much proof as any other member that has posted on the boards. Parses are parses, and most parses are done in an uncontrolled environment. Sorry, but no amount of arguing will allow you to call parses fact. Anyways, I have posted parses, and you have. You accept yours, you don't accept mine. In fact, when i posted parses of me soloing a mob in CT, many of the community didn't even understand the reason for the parse. Many of them still don't, as I'm sure you'll see in a reply to this post. Yes, I have not posted proof. Neither has anyone else. Parses aren't universal proof. Posts/Statements from SoE aren't universal proof. Opinions are not proof. Personal posts (because you have a PhD, or don't) is not proof. Speculation about value of itemization vs the value of the mitigation nerf is not proof. That is what everyone here has deemed proof. I'm sorry to say, they are wrong.



    Railina, first off, it's easy enough to pick and choose statements on their own. Secondly, by posting that you just further prove my comments of deeming anything you post as proof.



    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>So, um Soggie. How do you reconcile that difference in available AC with these results, showing that a monk with 500 AC more (not to mention the 2% shielding) than a warrior still mitigates 9.5% less?<hr></blockquote>

    He's a warrior. He's supposed to take hits better than we are. We avoid hits better than they do. Show me a similar parse (for what the parse is worth, btw), and compare the avoidance. I'm sure we'll come out ahead.




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  30. #590
    Ex-Druid Monk-in-Training
    Join Date
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    Posts
    91

    Default Re: monk fix

    Soggie<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Anyways, I have posted parses<hr></blockquote>No, you haven't.



    Not once.



    You posted a log of you "soloing" a caster mob in Ssra, the stated purpose of which was to prove that monks can solo as well or even better than classes that can quad kite.



    A point you dismally failed to prove once the gear and AA levels of the two toons had been compared.



    You've vehemently denied even the possibility of the veracity of any parse you've seen displayed here, most likely because they simply don't agree with your opinion.



    Go ahead, Soggie, continue being the lone sanctimonious voice crying out in the wilderness that the game is perfectly fun/fair/balanced for you.



    It's not for the majority of us.



    twit.


    Xaynn Bakkura

    Iksar Monk

    Just a Silly Gecko



    To repeat what others have said, requires education; to challenge it, requires brains.

    -- Mary Pettibone Poole, A Glass Eye at a Keyhole, 1938



    <span style="color:purple;">Reverse the Monk Mitigation Nerf!</span></p>
    Xaynn Bakkura - 70 Monk, Stromm
    My Gimp Gear

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    And without a plan, all you got left to do is Panic.

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  31. #591
    Guest

    Default Wow

    Monks are about to actually be given the ability to do damage from any angle via the no-riposte when not tanking feature? That right there would single handedly fix the vast majority of issues with monk damage today. For years (since about Kunkark?) monks have been touted by SOE as the masters of damage from any angle and yet due to riposte we've been reduced to rogue-lite. Reconciling the statement with the game is a HUGE win for monks.



    Playing around with the phantom wind line and other things -- like making disciplines usable as before while FD, while stunned, while silenced, etc -- would definitely "fix" the monk class in my mind.



    The only thing left would be to address the issues caused by the few insane AE fights in POP. Making a fight with AE's like Fenin's really don't add any new variety other than than serve to exclude a particular class or set of classes from the fight. Creating a raid target that requires a large number of people to reach and then saying "sorry, a third of you have to sit on the bench now" isn't fun. It wasn't fun for wizards when SOE created magic immune critters as a way to make things harder and it's not fun for monks, rogues, warriors, paladins, SK's, etc. when SOE does it to them.



    There are also some itemization issues with upgrade paths for monks when compared to other classes, but by and large, the raid imbalance issue will be completely solved with the any-angle fix and the grouping can be fixed with the phantom line.



    I was honestly about to go cancel my last 3 EQ accounts today and was just cruising the EQ monk site before doing it when I read this post. Cancel is on hold now at least for a few more weeks to see if this change really comes about. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D">


    </p>

  32. #592
    Enlightened Grandmaster Wubao's Avatar
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Wow

    "First off, I haven't done very much (if any) screaming about my opinions/facts/etc. I have posted them, and I guess it's hard to decipher what is a passionate statement and what isn't. Anyways, I have posted about as much proof as any other member that has posted on the boards. Parses are parses, and most parses are done in an uncontrolled environment. Sorry, but no amount of arguing will allow you to call parses fact. Anyways, I have posted parses, and you have. "



    You've never once posted a parse.



    You've never once posted a quote, or a fact or a piece of data outside of your one single LOG from soloing a shissar arcanist in Ssraa.



    These days you rarely even post opinions. You simply insult others for their opinions.



    I challenge you to post some parses. Post some data. Post some FACTS. Make an actual opinion. Provide the data to back it up.



    I feel however, you'll simply, as usual, choose to insult people instead of actually gathering evidence and formulating a thesis.






    </p>
    Wubao Fist of Agnost the Indifferent!
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  33. #593
    Guest

    Default hehe

    And I second what has just being said about soggie, maybe his insults are what he calls his proofs?


    </p>

  34. #594
    Guest

    Default Re: hehe

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>You've never once posted a parse.



    You've never once posted a quote, or a fact or a piece of data outside of your one single LOG from soloing a shissar arcanist in Ssraa.<hr></blockquote>

    More proof that you read only what you want to read. I have posted multiple parses. Maybe you chose not to read them. I thought the Ssra parse was a parse. Hence the name - parse.



    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>These days you rarely even post opinions. You simply insult others for their opinions.<hr></blockquote>

    See what I deal with?



    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>I challenge you to post some parses. Post some data. Post some FACTS.<hr></blockquote>

    Isn't that a paradox? Parses AREN'T facts. Understand, please.



    I reiterate, very little, if anything, I have read on MB can be construed as fact. All your parses, all your "my opinion is fact" statements, all your guesses/speculations are exactly that - parses, opinions, and guesses/speculations. None of them, without full knowledge of EQ, can be made known as fact. My posts and your posts included. Stop the "fact" talk, because it just makes you look stupid.




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  35. #595
    Enlightened Grandmaster Wubao's Avatar
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    Default Re: hehe

    "Isn't that a paradox? Parses AREN'T facts. Understand, please."



    I asked you to post a parse. OR data. OR a fact. OR a quote. OR some evidence.



    ANY OF THE ABOVE.



    You choose to post none of it.


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  36. #596
    Guest

    Default Re: hehe

    Very accurate, but here is one for ya.

    Fact: your posts here are off topic

    I see what you deal with, but you get no sympothy from me because you are dealing with it !voluntarily!





    It seems every time I play now, i find myself noticing situations where this would have been extremely usefull. Hurry, this wont 'ballence' a thing(not that its ment to), but versatility is to be applauded.


    </p>

  37. #597
    Monk Disciple
    Join Date
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    167

    Default how about..go away..

    If this was a real life situation and some loudmouthed jerk kept budding into the conversations my friends and I were having I would tell him to get lost.



    Go find whatever board Eduin camps at now and go have quote-offs with him.



    Can you not feel the unwelcome?



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    </p>
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  38. #598
    Guest

    Default Re: how about..go away..

    The mitigation nerf is the most important that needs to be addressed. Most monks that are pulling in the upper tiers would agree with me because they know what I am talking about. Pulling is tough and sometimes takes time to split mobs, while taking a beating.



    I propose that one of two things should happen:

    1. Remove the mitigation nerf.

    2. We get our original good mitigation unless we have attack on, which in turn drops our mitigation down to nerfed level. This way we can actually survive a great deal more pulls, but also not be overpowered in being able to serve as a tank.


    focus sta plz

    [ Heated's Corpse_99 ]</p>

  39. #599
    Guest

    Default Re: how about..go away..

    Soggie, a parse is a compilation of data obtained from a log.

    What you posted was a log, and a very short one at that.



    - Ssarvhok




    </p>

  40. #600
    Ascendant Stone Fist
    Join Date
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    1,213

    Default Re: how about..go away..

    When I have been doing my LDON groups, I always look for a monk. Unfortunately, it is not for our ability to tank, but because I feel sorry for them.



    I could tell a big difference in my groups when a monk was our tank.



    They really need to change things up a bit.


    Monk



    Druid



    Beastlord



    </p>

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