Page 14 of 16 FirstFirst ... 48910111213141516 LastLast
Results 521 to 560 of 637

Thread: Status Update

  1. #521
    Guest

    Default Re: .

    Well, I made my monk to DPS/tank. Not full on tank mind you, but exping non major mobs, duoing with my druid friend, shaman friend, etc... I didn't have the great gear, but I also picked my monk for the orginal benefit a monk had, low gear reliance. I never could solo very well as I didn't have the solo gear for it, but I could take hits fairly well that in most exp situations a non-uber druid could heal me without shiting a brick.



    I still dropped like a lead weight when I was rushed with mobs or the mob was a little too much for my gear and level, but I was still considered a "Light tank" for many small groups I ran with and I provided enough for us to get by without problems. Traditional tanks were always taken when we had the option, but my role allowed me to slide in and out of that position when the place and situation called for it.



    I stopped playing after the nerf becuase I lost a "Part" of the role I picked my monk for. I didn't pick my monk to be a "Tank", but I did pick it because the monk was the utility class of the melee. We could put out damage and take it pretty well. If I had wanted to be a TANK, I would have picked a warrior/SK. If I wanted to be DPS only, I would have picked a rogue. I wanted a balance of both without all the bullshit of relying on gear to be balanced with my class. Pulling was not the major thing it is now when I picked my class. It was a non-intended use that I adapted to. Not a class skill I picked my monk for.



    The monk of today is not the monk of yesterday. They were changed to something they were not orginally designed to be and over the years made EXTREMELY gear dependent. So, out of the 3 things I picked my monk for, only one remains. Monks are DPS with a push for a skill that was never meant to be (FD pulling). Monks don't tank that well unless in the right gear with the right AA's and they are as gear dependent as any other class.



    I never bought much from the player merchants, I felt EQ wasn't really setup well for player trade and I thought it was silly to buy and item you didn't earn yourself. I never farmed for cash other than to buy bandages, plane stones, stars, etc. I only looted what I could use and spent my time on one account with one character. It makes it hard to play that way and then survive in todays EQ world of Ebayers, Bazaar adventures, and assembly line toons. The monk class isn't what it used to be, but then again, neither is EQ. I guess it fits together as it should. /shrug


    Tanix Tenderfoot </p>

  2. #522
    Guest

    Default monk fix

    You guys still just don't seem to understand me... maybe I am speaking a foreign language...



    I don't necessarily want tanking fixes, I just want a fix that works INDEPENDENTLY of whether I am tanking or not. This way all monks will see the benefit, whether they are in my situation (always tank) or the rest of you (never tank by the sound of it). You non-tanking guys just seem to want fixes at my expense. I just want everybody to get something.



    I am NOT WRONG to ask for this... it is just my request as an individual. The original request for feedback was not from only those monks who never tank, it was for ALL monks. Just because I don't post the same thing 10000 times like some of you it does not make my opinion less valid (although I am starting to feel like a broken record by now).



    Those who feign intelligence by saying I chose the wrong class originally for my situation show a remarkable degree of ignorance of the history of the monk class. At the time I created my monk they were widely regarded as the best possible partner for a shaman and the duo were probably about the best in the game. How times have changed. Shaman are still the monk's best partner but the monk is now some way down the list of preferred shaman partners (bard, mage, SK, necro, warrior, BL and pally all ahead). This doesn't appear likely to change in the current round of fixes either.



    It is easy to appear wise after the fact. If I originally had a crystal ball to foresee how my monk would achieve crystal balls I certainly would have started a mage to partner my shaman in the first place (rather than waiting for PoP to do so).



    I never asked for abilities that helped monks tank better, I just asked for a fix that my monk would be able to make some use of (rather than NOTHING).



    This is an EXTREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT!!!! Why do you guys not get it? Stop just trying to pick holes in each others arguments and just try and understand other's perspectives for once!!! Geez....


    </p>

  3. #523
    Enlightened Grandmaster Wubao's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    612

    Default Re: monk fix

    " I just want a fix that works INDEPENDENTLY of whether I am tanking or not."



    -Dodge from behind affects everyone. And has nothing to do with tanking.



    -Phantom Call also affects everyone.



    -The disc changes also affect every monk.



    So, 3 of the 4 changes focus on monks pulling, and 1 of the 4 focuses on monks tanking (earthwalk).



    Sounds like you're getting what you asked for, just not in the package you wanted.






    </p>
    Wubao Fist of Agnost the Indifferent!
    - Read My Articles
    - Follow my blog here
    - See my artwork

  4. #524
    Guest

    Default Re: .

    When I created my Monk it was to tank while at the same time doing decent damage. The damage was not gear dependent either as the old fists were free. Probably in error and with the weight penalty I didn't exactly loot a lot. Once upon a time that was another reason to choose a Monk in group as they neither needed or asked for a split !



    For the mid range Monk tanking is no longer an option , and unfortunately this does have an impact on pulling as we are much less resilient.



    Our damage output is in my view pretty pathetic. I have been doing a lot of parsing and at level 65 without top end equipment we are just way too far down the dps ladder. I no longer care whether we get a big DPS boost or a big tanking boost or a bit of each. What I don't see is that we tank so poorly yet do not have any great dps edge over other classes. I am not singly out BST's , but the fact they can buff, slow etc then tank better than me and at the same time outdamage me is just silly.



    The only reason I mention them is that in theory they share a lot in common with Monks.


    </p>

  5. #525
    Guest

    Default Re: .

    Wubao - Except that with dodge from behind came a massive increase in stuns while moving... net result, dodge from behind only useful if I'm standing still.



    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>When I created my Monk it was to tank while at the same time doing decent damage....For the mid range Monk tanking is no longer an option , and unfortunately this does have an impact on pulling as we are much less resilient.<hr></blockquote>Same here, and yep agree.



    - Ssarvhok




    </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub147.ezboard.com/bmonklybusiness43508.showUserPublicProfile?gid=ssa rvhok>Ssarvhok</A> at: 1/20/04 4:02 am

  6. #526
    Monk Disciple
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Uk, Nottingham
    Posts
    115

    Default Re: .

    Maybe it might sound boring and repetitive but the lull abilities for monks need to allow for 2 lull back to back to be any good for the aid with pulling it is supposed to be.



    If the recast time is 6 seconds you can do 2 lulls even in difficult places with targetting problems.



    It is just to short for 3 lulls but in more then 85% of the cases (given the monk skills, other classes might need a bit more, also the reason I think bard lull does not require the same length as pacify because of the extra tools we have) when you can lull 2 mobs you can single pull and even single pull casters.



    That would be the thing to go for in the case of the monk lull ability.


    Xandria, Bard of 56 songs and proud officer of Guardians of Blood, at your service.



    Sauropod, Monk of 11 kata's.



    My pleasure and my duty.</p>
    Xandria, Bard of 63 songs,

    At your service, my pleasure and my duty.

  7. #527
    Enlightened Grandmaster Wubao's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    612

    Default Re: .

    I noticed it a long time before that patch. On my lower level SK, Necro and Wizard alts. Whenever a mob finally caught up to them, everytime, they'd get stunned right off the bat. First hit. Like clockwork (one of them's even a gnome).



    And I've been getting stunned far too much while pulling ever since the actual NERF went live.






    </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub147.ezboard.com/bmonklybusiness43508.showUserPublicProfile?gid=wub ao@monklybusiness43508>Wubao</A> at: 1/20/04 11:07 am
    Wubao Fist of Agnost the Indifferent!
    - Read My Articles
    - Follow my blog here
    - See my artwork

  8. #528
    SkyKungfu
    Guest

    Default Re: .

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>So what's the point Sky?<hr></blockquote>



    I am still waiting that you quote me where I said I made my monk to tank. You are Soggiing. Shifting arguments around and putting words in my mouth.



    I said very clearly my point is that pulling and positioning is not enough for me. I want my unneeded nerfed mitigation back, I want reasonable dps even without the endgame weapons. I wanna be a pure meleer, that trained his body to a deadly weapon and is able to fight enemies toe to toe. I want to be able to do some useful soloing again, no not like some other classes 4 - 20 mobs at a time, just comparable to how I could pre pop.



    So if you think I am asking for to much and it would make me super class not to be reduced to pulling and positioninig so be it. I am glad when that is all that YOU want, it's not all what a monk meant to me.



    Sky


    <span style="color:blue;"> SkyKungfu </span> lvl 65 Grandmaster of the Celestial Fists Guardians of Doom Bertoxxolous
    SkyBasher lvl 60 Warlord / Miracculix lvl 65 Druid / Crakman lvl 65 Enchanter
    Akabriel lvl 65 Arch Mage / Gospeed lvl 39 Shaman / Skyscat lvl 34 Beastlord





    Mageloprofile SkyKungfu Lee


    <span style="color:red;font-family:helvetica;font-size:small;">Reverse the Monk Mitigation Nerf!</span>


    </p>

  9. #529
    Enlightened Grandmaster Wubao's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    612

    Default Re: .

    "Except that with dodge from behind came a massive increase in stuns while moving"



    That was in place before dodge from behind went live. That's been in place for quite some time, actually.


    </p>
    Wubao Fist of Agnost the Indifferent!
    - Read My Articles
    - Follow my blog here
    - See my artwork

  10. #530
    Guest

    Default Re: .

    Ever since the phantom line was announced, I purposely only lull a maximum of one time whenever I lull with my bard. I do that everywhere I go... LDoN, PoV, PoS, PoI, Nadox, etc...



    There are only 2 times I get anything more than a single - if I get a crit fail on the lull or if I get agro before I get the lull off (happens a few times in LDoN where just getting close enough to open a door is in agro range of mobs on the opposite side.)



    What I found is the ability for a INSTANT cast lull will make monk pulling BOTH faster and safer than bard pulling. It takes me at best 7 seconds a pull with my bard if I Lull one mob in a room. That's a couple seconds to get into position and start singing the lull song, 3 seconds to sing the lull song (retargetting while the song is singing for my pull target) and then another 3 seconds to sing my pull song. Higher level bards with lots of AA can shorten that up by using bellow to pull instead.



    The monk lull is designed as an instant cast. Shissar fangs hit their target quick as well. I know I can do those same pulls where I feel a lull is necessary MUCH quicker than a bard can.



    The only thing about a 30 second refresh time that bothers me is basically losing the ability completely for a pull if I get a resist. While I find mobs rarely resisting lull in LDoN, its a lot more common in PoP zones. A lot may have to do with level as there are a lot of mobs in PoP that my bard cannot even lull if he wanted to, but the truth is that PoP is a lot easier to deal with traditional monk splitting to bring singles anyway.



    So, I'm fine with a 30 second refresh if one of two things happens... the refresh automatically shortens to a one time 5 second refresh if the mob resists the initial lull.. or, the lull never fails on mobs of the proper level and not flagged as immune to lull.



    Otherwise, I'm happy to go with the long refresh timer and call out for the rest of the monk balance to be through increased DPS output rather than worry about the diminishing returns of some "super-lull" that will never obsolete the pulling tools of other classes out there.


    <div style="text-align:center">

    <Sheep>

    Magelo

    Mihn Stryll the ultra-twink minstrel</div></p>

  11. #531
    Guest

    Default Re: .

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>What I found is the ability for a INSTANT cast lull will make monk pulling BOTH faster and safer than bard pulling. It takes me at best 7 seconds a pull with my bard if I Lull one mob in a room. That's a couple seconds to get into position and start singing the lull song, 3 seconds to sing the lull song (retargetting while the song is singing for my pull target) and then another 3 seconds to sing my pull song. Higher level bards with lots of AA can shorten that up by using bellow to pull instead.



    The monk lull is designed as an instant cast. Shissar fangs hit their target quick as well.<hr></blockquote>

    Can i just take a second to ask why you don't pull with a throwing weapon when using the bard? Why do you use a song instead of one of the <span style="font-size:xx-small;">(hyperbole alert)</span> millions of bard usable throwing items? Is it, perhaps, because the bard has other options which further add to the bard's role as a puller? Because if you intend to include the time it takes to cast that song into the minimum time required per pull, i suggest you also include the time it takes the monk to aquire that utility.





    I look at pulls now, and i see a lot where a single lull is all i need, and look forward to being able to provide that for myself rather than call forward the cleric or chanter. But i also see a fair number where no less than 2 or 3 lulls are required, and i have to ask myself why a monk should be a worse choice for a puller in those situations than every single other class that can lull.


    </p>

  12. #532
    Guest

    Default Re: .

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>That was in place before dodge from behind went live. That's been in place for quite some time, actually.<hr></blockquote>I didn't notice it pulling until dodge from behind patch... I did notice more stuns than usual after disc revamp, but definitely not while moving. Can I ask you to back that up with a link or something <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">



    - Ssarvhok


    </p>

  13. #533
    Guest

    Default Re: .

    Dodge from behind is a pathetic joke.


    Grazel Nukite, Transcendant

    Triage Quadbypass, Venerable Pumpkin

    Arron Uthmater, Impressario, 62 Concerts

    Valiant Elite, Druzzil Ro







    FREN</p>

  14. #534
    Guest

    Default How can u determine if we are not tanking?

    Original post says we will not be reposted if "not tanking". My question is how in the world can u determin this. I'm no genious but think it would be tricky to program.


    </p>

  15. #535
    Ascendant Ashenhand
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    Posts
    3,776

    Default Re: How can u determine if we are not tanking?

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Original post says we will not be reposted if "not tanking". My question is how in the world can u determin this. I'm no genious but think it would be tricky to program.<hr></blockquote>It's simple. If you aren't at the top of the hate list, you get riposte immunity.



    -Soy


    </p>
    I'm not givin' you attitude. I just want another drink.

  16. #536
    Guest

    Default Re: monk fix

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>

    -Dodge from behind affects everyone. And has nothing to do with tanking.



    -Phantom Call also affects everyone.



    -The disc changes also affect every monk.



    So, 3 of the 4 changes focus on monks pulling, and 1 of the 4 focuses on monks tanking (earthwalk).<hr></blockquote>



    Hehe, I'm not sure that I would speak of "every monk". Definately raiding level 65 monks though.



    Dodge does affect everyone, but a 5% chance to dodge from behind isn't gonna help me a whole lot when I'm never allowed to be the puller in groups (hopefully lull will change that).



    Phantom Call should be a godsend. We'll see on how it's implemented. I'd love to see it extended to be able to lull two mobs, but based on what I've seen of lullers pulling in the past only about 10% of the pulls would require multiple lulls in LDoNs. Speaking of which, is it just me or do lullers make some of the worst pullers skill-wise? I swear, the paladins I'm with half the time lull everything, even the mob they're pulling and stuff out of agro range, then redo it all on the next pull.



    Oh, the disc changes don't really effect everyone either. I still have the resistance and fearless discs I've never used (don't raid yet). I did gain focused will, but a 30hp heal over 60 seconds with 5 minutes reuse isn't exactly useful. Plus, I purposely keep it off my hotkeys because it BREAKS FD! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":">



    The riposte immunity will be nice, though I don't think it will have any effect on me at my level. Too low to raid, I almost always fight from the back (positioning is never a problem in any of the LDoNs I've done), and stuff doesn't riposte for much.



    I think that these fixes are all steps in the right direction, but to be honest SoE could put them all in tomorrow secretly and I would only notice the lull. I would still like to see something to help balance the lower level monks who imo were hit harder by the mitigation nerf than your average 65 raiding monk.



    Just my 2cp.


    [48 Monk] Kaiden (Iksar)</p>

  17. #537
    Monk Disciple
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Uk, Nottingham
    Posts
    115

    Default Re: monk fix

    Lulling everything is a safety net, mostly because most lull capable classes cannot interrupt a bad pull when it happens.



    It gives a chance to reduce adds if it goes wrong.



    It can be done without but if you can do it why not.



    Which is also the reason I would want to see Phantom change to be able to lull 2 mobs because that allows you to pull some stuff with an added safety barrier in place.


    Xandria, Bard of 56 songs and proud officer of Guardians of Blood, at your service.



    Sauropod, Monk of 11 kata's.



    My pleasure and my duty.</p>
    Xandria, Bard of 63 songs,

    At your service, my pleasure and my duty.

  18. #538
    Guest

    Default Re: .

    Quote Sky

    -----------

    I said very clearly my point is that pulling and positioning is not enough for me. I want my unneeded nerfed mitigation back, I want reasonable dps even without the endgame weapons. I wanna be a pure meleer, that trained his body to a deadly weapon and is able to fight enemies toe to toe. I want to be able to do some useful soloing again, no not like some other classes 4 - 20 mobs at a time, just comparable to how I could pre pop.



    So if you think I am asking for to much and it would make me super class not to be reduced to pulling and positioninig so be it. I am glad when that is all that YOU want, it's not all what a monk meant to me.

    ------------

    Ok, look, back up all of you for a second and read what's being written.



    There is no one here arguing against your ideas.



    Every monk on these boards (ok, most) would like to see a mitigation return. We'd all like to be able to solo. We'd all like to be able to stand in front of a mob as a tank or an offtank. We'd all like good DPS that matched rogues. If SOE came to us tomorrow as a class and said "these are the changes we're making, and we've determined this won't overpower the class so no worries about future nurfs on these accounts" every monk here would probably be saying "thank you" and moving on with life.



    You can stop preaching as to what you think a monk SHOULD be. To your great surprise, we agree with you...at least mostly. What we're telling you is that SOE doesn't agree. And in the end that's all that's important.



    What YOU fail to understand (you meaing the monk tanks not just you meaning Sky) is the practicality of what you are asking for.



    We're not arguing that a monk shouldn't tank, we're arguing that there's no fucking way in hell a monk is ever going to tank. There's a difference.



    Everyone calling for Pre-PoP stuff needs to take a deep breath. This is not pre-pop. This is post PoP. PoP and it's changes were put into the game for a reason, SOE made a design decission reguarding monks and the rest of the classes and how the game should be played. Bitch about the design decission all you want to. Bitch about the following FACTS:

    Sony wants this to be a GROUPING game for the majority of the classes, not a Solo game. There are classes that can solo, a MONK is not one of them by SOE design. Sony doesn't think that a monk's possition is being beaten on by a mob. We are an avoidance class, and it seems SOE's vision is for us to be the ultmate avoidance class...the class that never gets hit because they never tank.



    I didn't make these rules. I don't even agree with them...but there comes a time when you look at the game as a whole and realize that times have changed. You realize that there are things in life you can look at and change and things in life that have trancended from Idea to Concrete Fact. It is my opinion that the tanking monk is dead, and it's return will only come back IF there is another major design shift from SOE.

    I don't see this happening. Standing in front of the mob and being beaten on is not in SOE's vision for monks, just as it's not there for enchanters. What would you say on a thread on the chanter boards that said "OMG We want to tank".



    In LOK's opinion this makes me a nutless wonder, in my opinion it makes me a realist, feel free to have your own opinion, there's no shortage of them on this board (informed or not).



    PoP was the worst expansion/game ever to come out of any game designer's minds. The Everquest game changed for the worse for everyone at that point and it will never be fixed. There are design concepts that have been put in place that are not going to change.



    I'm not telling you to get over yourself here. If you still feel that you should tank continue to push for it. What the majority of monks here are telling you is that you're wasting your breath, wasting your time, and wasting your energy on something that has about a snowball's chance in HELL of ever happening again.



    When you can get the warriors, paladins and SKs to think you should be standing in front of the mob tanking, you might be able to make it happen.






    Tsarakien Roycroft

    Monk GrandMaster of the Fourth Celestial Circle (64)

    Master of the Celestial Fists

    Prexus Server

    Alliance of the Griffin

    My Magelo: http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=352669

    ----

    This opinion brought to you by the letter A and the number 3. It's given to you free, and probably worth every penny you paid for it.</p>

  19. #539
    Enlightened Grandmaster Wubao's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    612

    Default Re: .

    "When you can get the warriors, paladins and SKs to think you should be standing in front of the mob tanking, you might be able to make it happen."



    That's pretty much key.



    Warriors had the support of a LOT of people when asking for better aggro that led to the creation of Incite.



    We actually have the support of a LOT of people when we made a stand on lull/bards/pacify/etc. in regards to monk pulling.



    I don't know how much support will exist for monks wanting to tank better. I remember a lot of trolls visiting here spewing forth invective and vitriol when we got our tanking surgically removed.


    </p>
    Wubao Fist of Agnost the Indifferent!
    - Read My Articles
    - Follow my blog here
    - See my artwork

  20. #540
    Ex-Druid Monk-in-Training
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    91

    Default Re: .

    But don't you think that the game has changed sufficiently enough that the nerf is no longer necessary?



    Even with pre-nerf mitigation levels, we'd never compete with a "real tank" in today's EQ.



    Having the only class-wide mitigation penalty in the game certainly doesn't help us pull since it's directly responsible for our getting stunned so frequently. Does dodge-from-behind actually completely offset that?



    So, it would help our morale, it would help us pull, we'd never compete with the "real tanks" thanks to itemization having been addressed...



    I don't want mitigation unnerfed because it would help me tank...



    I want it unnerfed because it just doesn't make sense any more.


    Xaynn Bakkura

    Iksar Monk

    Just a Silly Gecko



    To repeat what others have said, requires education; to challenge it, requires brains.

    -- Mary Pettibone Poole, A Glass Eye at a Keyhole, 1938



    <span style="color:purple;">Reverse the Monk Mitigation Nerf!</span></p>
    Xaynn Bakkura - 70 Monk, Stromm
    My Gimp Gear

    Panicking killed more toons than any mob ever did.
    And without a plan, all you got left to do is Panic.

    Know the Plan.
    Don't Panic.

  21. #541
    Enlightened Grandmaster Wubao's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    612

    Default Re: .

    "But don't you think that the game has changed sufficiently enough that the nerf is no longer necessary?"



    Yes. Of course. But as you state:



    "Even with pre-nerf mitigation levels, we'd never compete with a "real tank" in today's EQ."



    For me removing the nerf falls under the same area as riposte immunity. It's not going to help me tank. The stuff I already tank, I can tank because the monsters don't hit hard enough to make a dent no matter how bad my mitigation, or because the monster is slowed and the healer is good. And the stuff I don't tank, I won't be able to tank if the nerf gets removed.



    The mitigation nerf, simply makes no sense when you look at the reasons given for it (all/all itemization).



    And removing it, I feel, will be a step towards helping me survive bad pulls. Which happen to me more often than me having to tank a boss mob. That's for sure.



    :P


    </p>
    Wubao Fist of Agnost the Indifferent!
    - Read My Articles
    - Follow my blog here
    - See my artwork

  22. #542
    Guest

    Default Re: Status Update

    It's the end of the world when I start agreeing with Wubao. Buildings crumble, sky darkens, and the animals start speaking in tongues. Oh! The heavens part the clouds and lo unto us come a savior! I can't hear you Wubao, my brother! The trumpets and hosannas deafen my ears! Oh Jesus! Oh Jesus! Oh....Wubao? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/frown.gif ALT=":(">





    keep up the good fight, and just maybe Saint Peter will let you in on a technicality. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">


    </p>

  23. #543
    SkyKungfu
    Guest

    Default Re: .

    I don't care if it is SOE's current vision. It wouldn't be the first time they change it. It's my goal to be a toe to toe meleer with a very good dps. And I can't repeat it often enough, to be reduced only to pulling and positioning sucks for me. Its not what a monk means for me, and its nothing I am going to accept. I will try to argue, bitch and flame and what ever against it to get it fixed as long as I play EQ. The day I loose any hope that a monk will be a monk again is the day I quit.



    Sky


    </p>

  24. #544
    Guest

    Default Re: .

    Quote

    ----------

    The mitigation nerf, simply makes no sense when you look at the reasons given for it (all/all itemization).

    ----------



    I too am ALL FOR FREN (Reverse the NERF).



    I'm for FREN because 75% of monk's problems right now are psychological. 13 other classes believe we suck because we believe we suck. The entire set of players right now (less the few that really don't care) linchpin a monk's usefulness around the Mitigation nurf, because that's what we believe.



    The nurf represents everything we dislike about our class and about the way it's been treated since PoP.



    Give us Rouge DPS and Bard lull and you're still going to get people bitching about the nurf saying we suck.



    It's a huge psychological block that we as a class just can't get over.






    Tsarakien Roycroft

    Monk GrandMaster of the Fourth Celestial Circle (64)

    Master of the Celestial Fists

    Prexus Server

    Alliance of the Griffin

    My Magelo: http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=352669

    ----

    This opinion brought to you by the letter A and the number 3. It's given to you free, and probably worth every penny you paid for it.</p>

  25. #545
    Guest

    Default Re: .

    Quote Sky

    -------------

    I don't care if it is SOE's current vision. It wouldn't be the first time they change it. It's my goal to be a toe to toe meleer with a very good dps. And I can't repeat it often enough, to be reduced only to pulling and positioning sucks for me. Its not what a monk means for me, and its nothing I am going to accept. I will try to argue, bitch and flame and what ever against it to get it fixed as long as I play EQ. The day I loose any hope that a monk will be a monk again is the day I quit.

    -------------

    I' not telling you quit. I'm not telling you not to stop bitching about the nurf, to stop pushing to get upgrades to our tank abilities.



    Rangers sucked for a good 2-3 years. With the lowest defensive skills in the game, some of the worst damage, bad mitigation, etc. They weren't wanted, they weren't needed. They kept bitching about it too. I'm sure there were several rangers on their boards and in the game like me who screamed "It's not SOE's vision, you're not going to get your defense increased."



    Yet it got changed...eventually.



    There's GOT to be people pushing for this class. There's got to be people pushing on all bounds of the class in all the different directions we can go otherwise we stagnate. Good on ya Sky, and the rest of you who think that we should be tanks.



    I think what alot of us are trying to tell you is that you've got a long, and very hard uphill battle with SOE and Warriors, and Paladins, and SKs, and Rangers, and BLs.



    Maybe i'm taking the easy way out by accepting the SOE Vision for the monk class in what little I know of it. Maybe i'm taking the easy way out in pushing on those boundries of the class that SOE seems to be willing to allow us to expand beyond and leaving the others alone. Maybe i'm just being a realist, I don't know.



    Good luck to you all in your push, you have my support...if not my belief that you will ever get through the front door with your ideas.


    Tsarakien Roycroft

    Monk GrandMaster of the Fourth Celestial Circle (64)

    Master of the Celestial Fists

    Prexus Server

    Alliance of the Griffin

    My Magelo: http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=352669

    ----

    This opinion brought to you by the letter A and the number 3. It's given to you free, and probably worth every penny you paid for it.</p>

  26. #546
    Ascendant Stone Fist
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    1,293

    Default Re: .

    I'd really like to see monk lull at minimum the same, duration and recast times as bard lull, at maximum 1 additional mob.

    I have levelled and played a bard to 65 now, pulling is incredibly easy for them, mind you I do not want it that eas as it would take the fun outta life, but for the large majority of people that are impatient and wants that LDoN win in under 30mins, a monk will never cut it in the pulling dept unless we can lull at least two mobs.


    <a href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=349899">
    Silenz Handz</a> | <a href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=807247">
    Furess</a> | Snazzire

    Grandmistress of the Celestial Fists - Drinal

    The Kindred</p>

  27. #547
    Guest

    Default Re: Status Update

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>-Dodge from behind affects everyone. And has nothing to do with tanking.



    -Phantom Call also affects everyone.



    -The disc changes also affect every monk.



    So, 3 of the 4 changes focus on monks pulling, and 1 of the 4 focuses on monks tanking (earthwalk).<hr></blockquote>



    Generally, I agree with most of what you say Wubao, but I think you're pushing it here... at least, imo.



    - Dodge from behind is a joke. I used to think it would be nice, but I've realized its pointless, since its so uncommon for it to happen.



    - Phantom Call affects pulling monks, it has very little usefulness (if any) to most other activities



    - Disc change, definitely, every monk. Love it



    - Earthwalk... I don't think it was targetted at the tanking monk. Stone Stance was fine for tanking. EW is a major benefit to pulling monks though, with the huge rate of stuns while moving. I'd say this was aimed, dead on, at pulling monks. Don't get me wrong, I love it... but I love it for pulling, not tanking.



    Berfert


    Berfert - 65 Monk (Human)

    Landeurn - 55 Druid (Wood Elf)



    Proud members of Phoenix Ascendant on The 7th Hammer



    Baking.....250+Trophy=252

    Brewing....250+Trophy=252

    Fletching..250+Trophy=252

    Jewelcraft.250+Trophy=252

    Pottery....240+Trophy=252

    Smithing...190

    Tailoring..245+Trophy=252</p>

  28. #548
    SkyKungfu
    Guest

    Default Re: .

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Good on ya Sky, and the rest of you who think that we should be tanks.<hr></blockquote>



    Sigh, where on earht did I ever say we should be tanks ? I asked Wub to quote me on this a couple of times since he claimed the same thing, now let me ask you, where did I say I want to be a tank ?



    In the almost 5 years I play EQ now, I NEVER tanked for a raid and I cant even remember that I ever tanked for a group. My son plays a lvl 65 SK and hes used to tank when we play together. And if not him, some of my other friends tanked. I am usually not in any pick up groups, so I can't even say how much disliked monks are in those groups, just what I read here on the board, since I don't bother myself.



    I just wanna be able to stand toe to toe with a mob when I fight him. I don't wanna hide in his back and play rogue light. One thing I agree with you is that the mitigation nerf is a psychological problem, since it pisses me off to no end. If its gone I would probably still have a more than hard time to solo a pop mob, but hell I would sure feel better.



    However, if you read my posts my main point in this thread is that I do NOT wanna be reduced only to pulling / positioning. I want better dps and I want the mitigation nerf removed. Both doesn't make me a tank.



    Sky






    <span style="color:blue;"> SkyKungfu </span> lvl 65 Grandmaster of the Celestial Fists Guardians of Doom Bertoxxolous
    SkyBasher lvl 60 Warlord / Miracculix lvl 65 Druid / Crakman lvl 65 Enchanter
    Akabriel lvl 65 Arch Mage / Gospeed lvl 39 Shaman / Skyscat lvl 34 Beastlord





    Mageloprofile SkyKungfu Lee


    <span style="color:red;font-family:helvetica;font-size:small;">Reverse the Monk Mitigation Nerf!</span>


    </p>

  29. #549
    Enlightened Grandmaster Wubao's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    612

    Default Re: .

    I'm not going to nit pick you Sky.



    But I think the confusion arises from these two statements:



    "Sigh, where on earht did I ever say we should be tanks ?"



    "I just wanna be able to stand toe to toe with a mob when I fight him."



    I'm probably just confusing the second statement, with the intent of "wanting to tank" and that's probably why you're asking the question in the first quote.



    Toe to toe is tanking isn't it?



    Anyways, riposte immunity, would technically allow you "stand" toe to toe with a monster. You just couldn't be "tanking" it.



    Hence why I also am probably confused by what you mean when you say you just want to be able to stand toe to toe with a mob.






    </p>
    Wubao Fist of Agnost the Indifferent!
    - Read My Articles
    - Follow my blog here
    - See my artwork

  30. #550
    SkyKungfu
    Guest

    Default Re: .

    LoL, ic, fighting toe to toe is tanking ? Oh well, guess I tought it needs more to tank, looks like we have kinda different opinions what a tank is.



    When I think about tanking, something like Warriors, SKs, Palys come to my mind. Things like high HP, huge AC, special abilities for snap agro and keeping agro from other group members and so on. Now if thats all included in a removed mitigation nerf, I want the nerf removed even more, would probably make me really super monk than. Maybe rogue dps is included as well when they remove the mitigation nerf? WOOT. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin">



    Finally, let me quote myself from this thread refering to the riposte suggestions:



    <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Re: Status Update

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Quote:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    It would make the damage done from the front slightly more than the done from the back with AA's, a little less without them.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------







    If you manage to get it to work this way, its a nice change imo.



    Sky <hr></blockquote>



    Well, its allready 24 pages ago ... but whats your point in telling me about the riposte immunity ?



    Sky




    </p>

  31. #551
    Guest

    Default .

    Attempted to edit, and some reason create a whole new reply that was edited (below) sorry.


    </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub147.ezboard.com/bmonklybusiness43508.showUserPublicProfile?gid=pha tsacks@monklybusiness43508>Phatsacks</A> at: 1/22/04 2:47 am

  32. #552
    Guest

    Default .

    Other monks have said this, hell I might have even said it at one point during this 28page thing. But I seriously hope the whining mnks about how this won't balance us, don't keep it from going live. It's 1 of the steps....check that out, plural form....to fixing us.



    SOE never said "With this, the balance will be done, how do you all feel about this?"



    Please, we all know how we we all want the mitigation nerf changed back (cept a few random mnks but that's their gig). Let's not stop the good from happening just because it's not the best. It's like stopping a plan that involves 100 people giving you a dollar each because you want 1 person to give you 100 dollar bill. Not saying there are going to be 100 steps, read the analogy for what it is, simply an analogy.


    </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub147.ezboard.com/bmonklybusiness43508.showUserPublicProfile?gid=pha tsacks@monklybusiness43508>Phatsacks</A> at: 1/21/04 8:27 pm

  33. #553
    Guest

    Default Re: .

    its been my experience with my chars, all 7 of them over 50, that EVERY single class in EQ BITCHES bout their class,



    Shamans want more DPS<

    Rangers, want to use their bows more,

    Clerics want more mana, and less taunt for CH,

    Warriors want better taunts, and Bellow to take less Endurence.

    chanters want more DC mobs,

    SK's and Pallies want better DPS.

    rogues want better avoidence,

    Beasts want better pets, Pre 49 SUCKS!

    Necros want cheaper pets, (mana and PP wise)

    Monks want better mitigation





    believe me im going to BITCH like hell about the monk nerf as long as i play monk.



    it sucks, its real, it was uncalled for, and its painful.



    my beast tanks better than my monk. thats just WRONG>


    _________



    "Classes are not that out of balance - AbsorEQ"</p>

  34. #554
    Guest

    Default Re: .

    Tanking is something you do for a group to keep the classes that can't take damage from dying on you.



    When you are solo or pulling, even if you are standing toe to toe with Vindicator and taking zero damage, you aren't tanking. If you get back to the group and nobody can take aggro off of you, then you are tanking (but probably not for very long hehehe).



    Of course, this is just semantics. That's the way I (and many other monks) define tanking. No doubt many monks also follow the definition of tanking as being the person taking a beating from a monster no matter what the reason for it is.


    <div style="text-align:center"><span style="font-size:large;">Argfeld</span></div>

    <div style="text-align:center">Order of the Scattered Winds - Bertoxxulous</div>

    <div style="text-align:center"><span style="color:purple;"><span style="text-decoration:underline">Reverse the Monk Mitigation Nerf!</span></span></div></p>

  35. #555
    Guest

    Default Re: .

    I'm not arguing against this change. I am for it. But I feel that those who don't agree with it have a valid, understated concern. They will only be able to make a couple more changes to us regardless of what they are. Any more would cause too much backlash.



    People are afraid that if we get in a mode of accepting what's given, after the next change, or the change after that, they'll call it done and we'll suddenly find ourselves short. I can understand being afraid of that, even though I still support this change I share some of that concern. It's like playing Family Feud and not knowing how many questions you have to find the number 1 answer for to reach 200 points in the final round.



    Why are people concerned? Because they are dinking and dunking small changes on us, and the tone of Kavhok's post makes it sound as though they're searching for ways to improve us. However, they shortly will implement a new melee class, complete with new abilities and utility and a purpose. How can we feel good about being told the delay is due to lack of options when they seem to find new options for a new melee class with ease?



    And though I agree with some that its an exercise in futility to have hopes for restored mitigation, I can understand why others feel its only right it gets returned to us given the apparent lack of better options to improve us. Imagine the counterman tells you they're all out of cigarettes, you want to respond "wth? there is a carton of them sitting on that shelf behind you, its even the brand that I smoke...hell in fact aren't you the guy who swiped my last pack at that party last night?"



    Look around. The majority is in agreement, our class needs something substantial, something beyond anything that has yet occurred. Some folks see the quickest, and perhaps most just, route to that would be returning what was taken. Whether or not another monk agrees with it is frankly irrelevant and is not seeing the forest from the trees. Until that significant something comes to fill in this hole, we will continue to wonder whether we shall be reasonably balanced at the end of the day. And given history we will continue to express anxiety regarding that, no matter which side of the table you sit at, or what you feel should be on it.


    Lindo - 65 Monk.</p>

  36. #556
    Guest

    Default Re: .

    Now here's something I can agree with.



    We *are* going to have to watch very carefull what we accept and what we don't given that the rangers i'm talking to are already bitching about melee upgrades and where's theirs. I think they're full of s*$& but it's not an uncommon opinion. GOD isn't going to help as they're going to say "Look at all those great AAs you've got, mine are s&^%, you don't need more, I do."



    There are only so many upgrades we're going to get before SOE is eventually going to call it done.



    I like lull, I accept that as a partial class balancing skill. I agree with everyone else, I think it needs to allow lulling of 2 mobs, but it's a good start.



    I like rip-riposte, I think it's a good monkly thing to do. I don't like it too much as a class balancing ability, but it is a partial class defining ability. I think it needs to be expanded upon to gaurentee that we do the same DPS from the front as the back, if not a little bit more.



    So far this is good, but I think we need just a bit more. It's a start, but here is my list of what would do it.



    * Stunning Blow. A selectable, x times / y time ability that makes the next attack that hits stun. Not a proc, not every attack for x time, just one stunning attack that can be selected fairly often (one shot refresh 30 seconds, 5 shots in 3 minutes, something like that.)



    * Inherent Strikethrough for our class. This upps our DPS from the front and solidifies our role as all around damage...and I think THAT is a class defineing thing...that's a PARTIAL role.



    * Enhanced Resistance - I think a monk's resistances should be higher / mean more than other classes. This helps us maintain our possition at the front of the mob through the AEs. I'd say our resistance value should mean about double what we have...



    Given a lull to pull, an ability to stand in front of a mob and do the same or better damage without worry of the side effects of standing in front of the mob (i.e. No extra cleric intervention), and an ability to interrupt caster mobs periodically, I believe monks get a role, a place, and the utility they need to compete for group spots.



    Reverse the Mitigation nurf and you'd make a HELL of alot of your customer base happy.






    Tsarakien Roycroft

    Monk GrandMaster of the Fourth Celestial Circle (64)

    Master of the Celestial Fists

    Prexus Server

    Alliance of the Griffin

    My Magelo: http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=352669

    ----

    This opinion brought to you by the letter A and the number 3. It's given to you free, and probably worth every penny you paid for it.</p>

  37. #557
    Enlightened Grandmaster Wubao's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    612

    Default Re: .

    " They will only be able to make a couple more changes to us regardless of what they are. Any more would cause too much backlash. "



    Caster re-balancing began at the end of Velious and went on through Luclin and on into Planes of Power and Legacy of Ykesha.



    That's quite a long period of time, where casters were given many MANY small changes, tweaks and additions to their spells and their abilities and their roles and their powers.



    It's not out of line to think melee rebalancing can take the same path with the same amount of attention.


    </p>
    Wubao Fist of Agnost the Indifferent!
    - Read My Articles
    - Follow my blog here
    - See my artwork

  38. #558
    Guest

    Default Re: .

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Caster re-balancing began at the end of Velious and went on through Luclin and on into Planes of Power and Legacy of Ykesha.



    That's quite a long period of time, where casters were given many MANY small changes, tweaks and additions to their spells and their abilities and their roles and their powers.



    It's not out of line to think melee rebalancing can take the same path with the same amount of attention.<hr></blockquote>No, it's not out of line to think that melee rebalancing can take the same path and amount of attention. It's not even out of line to think that they should take the same path and attention.



    But as for expecting that they will take the same path and amount of attention, given SoE's history with pure melees in general (and monks specifically), thats another story. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">



    My own biggest fear is SoE will say "We gave them dodge from behind, lull, riposte-immunity, new discs, new AAs in GoD, FD mem wipe after 2 minutes (or more likely some subset of these - yes, I know some of these are bug fixes/shouldn't count), therefore we consider them balanced enough, and will refocus our dev people on things that make us more money". We would come out still being unbalanced, but in an even worse position imo - we would have much less hope for SoE to do anything, and less support from other classes that currently understand how overnerfed we are. It might not have much impact on the high end monks (just like the mitigation nerf didn't have as much an impact), but it would seriously blindside more casual and lower level monks to lose the hope of true balance.


    [48 Monk] Kaiden (Iksar)</p>

  39. #559
    Enlightened Grandmaster Wubao's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    612

    Default Re: .

    A well justified fear.



    However, with a new melee class debuting in the next expansion, I think the dev team knows it's going to have to take quite some time with the balance issues. If berserkers are going to fit in at all, it's going to require quite a bit more work and tweaking for all classes involved.






    </p>
    Wubao Fist of Agnost the Indifferent!
    - Read My Articles
    - Follow my blog here
    - See my artwork

  40. #560
    Guest

    Default Re: .

    <blockquote>Quote:<hr>A well justified fear.



    However, with a new melee class debuting in the next expansion, I think the dev team knows it's going to have to take quite some time with the balance issues. If berserkers are going to fit in at all, it's going to require quite a bit more work and tweaking for all classes involved.<hr></blockquote>



    The real fear, in my mind is that they truly don't understand just how out of whack the game is right now. You could totally remove Monks, Warriors, and Rogues from the game and it would continue to function quiet well without them. I can not think of a single raid, or exp group situation, that any of the pure melee make a significant contribution too. They wouldn't be missed by anyone other then those who are playing them right now.



    The devs adding another melee dps class to the situation only makes it worse, and is further evidence that they don't understand. We need a complete redesign, not this half-assed tweak here and there they are doing now. Throw in the gear they are puting on the /betabuffing monks for GOD, and one has to wonder if there is any chance at all for us getting fixed.


    </p>

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •