Enhancement change about to hit test:

[Wubao]

From CuppaJo:

(Note from Cuppa - this is from the Devs - keep it civil in here, stick to the facts, do not personally insult any devs or other players or call people names. Focus on the system, not the people or their opinions)

I wanted to give you all a little heads up on something that we've had in the works since March of this year that is finally seeing the light of day soon.

Your questions and comments will help refine the patch notes so that we can make this new system as clear as possible for all players.

As always, we ask that you play and test the changes before crying "DOOOM".

Without further ado...

Enhancement Diversification:

This is a new system being implemented into City of Villains and City of Heroes (when City of Villains launches) to promote the use of more different types of Enhancements in powers. Using a system of diminishing returns, when slotting the same type of Enhancement into a power, you will begin to see less effect of that Enhancement when the bonus reaches a certain threshold. The effectiveness of Enhancements you are slotting in can now be seen in the Enhancement Slotting screen.

What does this mean? Simply, if you are slotting Enhancements and your bonus to a single attribute reaches 70% through Enhancements, you will begin to see a drop in the amount each Enhancement should be giving you. If you exceed 100% bonus, then the drop will be more severe. We have added to the Enhancement Slotting screen a display of how much bonus you are getting from your Enhancements. When you are adding in Enhancements that will be reduced in effectiveness you will be able to tell.

Note that this only affects Enhancements of the same bonus. So you can have a Damage bonus of 66.66%, and an Accuracy bonus of 66.66% (from 2 SO Damage and 2 SO Accuracy Enhancements) and you will not be affected in any way. Adding in another SO Damage Enhancement will not give you a 99% bonus, but a 94% bonus, because the damage bonus now exceeds 70%.

A good rule of thumb is “2 Single Origins Enhancements = No Reduction. 3 SO’s = Slight Reduction. 4 SO’s = Moderate Reduction. 5 or 6 SO’s = Major Reduction”

What if I don’t have more than 2 SO’s of any one type in my powers already? Then you have nothing to worry about, your character will function exactly as they did previous to this feature being added.

Does this affect Dual Origin Enhancements at all? Yes. If you have 5 DO’s of all the same type you would normally get an 83% bonus. Because of Enhancement Diversification your bonus will actually only get an 82% bonus. If you have 6 DO’s of all the same type, instead of a 100% bonus you will have a bonus of 95%.

Are Hamidon Enhancements affected? Yes. The bonuses that a Hamidon Enhancement gives you that exceed 70% will be reduced. Because of this change, Hamidon (and other dual-purpose) Enhancements are now combinable. You can only combine dual-purpose Enhancements that affect ALL the same bonuses (so you can combine Damage/Accuracy with another Damage/Accuracy, but not with a Damage/Endurance Reduction).

This totally cripples my character! I thought you were done balancing the game? All the Issue 4 and 5 balance adjustments were done with this system in place internally here at Cryptic. All playtests, QA checks, difficulty adjustments and balances have been done with Enhancement Diversification in mind since March 2005.

What if a power only takes one type of Enhancement to begin with? You have a couple of choices. You can respec the character and only go so far as putting a couple slots into the power, or you can go with more slots and eke out a little more effectiveness out of the Enhancements.

How can I tell when I am not getting full effectiveness out of an Enhancement? On the Enhancement Slotting Screen you will now see what bonuses Enhancements are giving you. This will help you make the choice as to what Enhancements to slot over what.

Does it matter what order I slot Enhancements in? No. The reduction in effectiveness is calculated off the total bonus you are receiving, so it does not matter what order you slotted the Enhancements in.

How is combining Enhancements affected by this? Enhancements that are higher level than you give you a bonus above normal Enhancements, if you combine Enhancements to get a higher bonus, this may put you over the point at which a reduction in effectiveness takes place.

Some Enhancements give me a 33.33%/16.66%/8.35% bonus, and others give me a different bonus, how are these affected by Enhancement Diversification? There are four categories of Enhancements, Schedule A, Schedule B, Schedule C, and Schedule D. The majority of Enhancements fall into the Schedule A category. This means that an even-level Training Origin Enhancement gives an 8.35% bonus, an even-level Dual Origin Enhancement gives me a 16.66% bonus, and an even-level Single Origin Enhancement gives a 33.33% bonus. All of the examples above assume using Schedule A Enhancements, since these are the most common.

Schedule B Enhancements are things Defense Buff, Damage Resistance, Range Increase and To Hit Buff. These have a smaller bonus because a small shift in these values has a larger impact on gameplay. With these Enhancements a Training Origin Enhancement gives a 5% bonus, a Dual Origin Enhancement gives a 10% bonus, and a Single Origin Enhancement gives a 20% bonus. Enhancement Diversification for these bonuses kicks in at 40% with a severe drop at 60%.

What Enhancement Types are what bonuses (schedules)?
Schedule A Enhancements (33.33%, 16.66%, 8.35%) are:
Accuracy, Confuse, Damage, Defense DeBuff, Drain Endurance, Endurance Discount, Fear, Fly, Heal, Hold, Immobilize, Intangible, Jump, Recharge, Recovery, Run, Sleep, Snare, Stun, Taunt, To Hit Debuff
These bonus types start to see reduction when the bonus is 70% or more, and a severe reduction at 100% bonus or greater.

Schedule B Enhancements (20%, 10%, 5%) are:
Range, Defense Buff, Resist Damage, To Hit Buff
These bonus types start to see reduction when the bonus is 40% or more, and a severe reduction at 60% bonus or greater.

Schedule C Enhancements (40%, 20%, 10%) are:
Interrupt
This bonus type starts to see reduction when the bonus is 80% or more, and a severe reduction at 120% bonus or greater.

Schedule D Enhancements (60%, 30%, 15%) are:
Knockback
This bonus type starts to see reduction when the bonus is 120% or more, and a severe reduction at 180% bonus or greater


And her follow up post today:

Just wanted to clarify something I have seen floating around.

This system was NEVER intended to go directly to live servers. It will go to test first.

Consolidated thread coming monday. Dev response thread as soon as the NDA is lifted.


Toodles!

[Brinian]

Why do these guys feel the need to keep making such sweeping changes to the game? All of this tinkering with the mechanics just angers the players. The dev team is in serious danger of damaging aspects of CoH that make it fun for a lot of people.

[Shotan]

Ya, enough with the sweeping nerfs already.

Im rapidly beginning to think of giving EQ2 another try.

/shrug

[Aarthebs]

I'm normally pretty fan-boyish when it comes to big changes - I took the I5 hits in stride and focused more on the good changes than the bad...

...But this is just getting ridiculous. They're stacking a large nerf on top of an already largely-nerfed playerbase.

I5-changes OR this "diversification" would have been alright, not both! In fact, I kinda wish this had gone in, in place of the I5 hits. Then base defenses wouldn't have been trashed so much.

Anyways, I'm acctually on the side of the regular forum doomsayers for once. I don't care how big the hit really is from these changes, it's nothing more than nerfs on top of nerfs. And too many large-scale game changes too quickly.

"Diversification" is a joke, everyone will end up with the same enhancement slotting setup as before.

[Shotan]

What I dont like about these nerfs is they are going to essentially force us into cookie cutter characters.

It used to be you could play off the wall builds without feeling gimp.

When this all falls out, who knows?

[Brinian]

See, I always thought that Cryptic would eventually add more 'end-game' content. I imagined they would add something like lvl 50+ trials or TF missions, with special enhancements as the reward for completion. Perhaps enhancements similar in power to the pre-nerf Hami-O's, or something along that line.

This announced change flies in the face of my suppositions. There's little sense in offering more powerful enhancements as a reward if they would simply be gimped by dimished returns.

I'm failing to see what the dev team thinks the long-term future of CoH will be. Do they intend for the game to be a perpetual grind? Level one character up to 50, then start over with another? Do they think PvP will satisfy veteran players? What do they think players will do once they played through all the storylines?

[Deanna]

I personally don't know what they intend long-term... I don't have a level 50 hero as of yet, and I don't think I ever will.

I've quit CoH 3 or 4 times but keep coming back because it is FUN to be a Hero. I like running the missions with my MA/SR scrapper and kicking bad-guy butt.

However, this change is going to kill said scrapper.. not being able to slot my defenses up to the point where I can survive more than 1 person attacking me is uncalled for. Unless something is added along with this new, "Enhancement Depreciation" patch, My account will never be re-newed again. I was going to pre-order CoV for my birthday, but before I was able to make that decision, they announced ED (and not because they wanted too either, someone leaked it from CoV Beta, and CuppaJo had to fight them to let her spill it).... it's sad... they've had 3 posts of ED with well over 200k comments with a nearly unanimous voice saying NO! WE DON"T WANT IT...

[ArmsmanCoH]

Yep, those who know me know I was a raving CoH fanboi at times; but my response to all this:

Account CANCELLED

I was all for CoH game balance and increasing overall challenge; and I accepted and supported the majority of I5 because it did just that; but to come along 4 weeks later and say:

1) ED is needed too.

and

2) BTW ED has been part of the Dev Team's internal builds since March 2005; AND that all the balance and spawn rate changes from that time forward (including I5) were done with the new ED system in mind
^^^^^^^
All the above in #2 was stated by the Dev Positron

Is just too much nerfage for my tastes; and Statesman's spin on how this isn't a reveral of wha he said Post IF5 ("There'll be no more sweeping changes to powers..."); because "Enhancements are not powers..."; while logically correct does imo violate the general spirit Players WERE actually asking after I5, namely, "Hey States, when are we going to see an end to the constant nerfing, and MORE Dev focus on more and better content?"

With this change, CoH IS morphing more into 'EQ in tights'; since one of the reasons the Devs clam this was done was so they could add special 'harder to obtain' (EQ style 'loot' anyone) Enhancements with high base prcentage boosts.

Lastly, take CoH, and just replace the H with a V and globally switch positions or totally swap the word 'Hero' and 'Villain; and you essentially have the 'new' City of Villains; I'm done with Staesman and his crew.

It only took them 18 months to learn from the MMORPG masters of SoE that overnerfing and BSing the paying playerbase is the 'industry model' to be followed.

Way to go.

[Brinian]

With this change, CoH IS morphing more into 'EQ in tights'; since one of the reasons the Devs clam this was done was so they could add special 'harder to obtain' (EQ style 'loot' anyone) Enhancements with high base prcentage boosts.
CoH already has some hard-to-obtain enhancements. 'Hard to obtain' meaning that they don't drop from normal mobs, and can't be bought from NPC's. One type comes as a reward from completing the sewers trial, the other from killing Hamidon.

IMO, CoH needs to offer more rewards like this. It provides incentive to repeat content, and provides an avenue for character development apart from levels. The sewers trial is an example of a perfect way to do this. Everyone who participates gets a reward. And since it's instanced, there's no way to leech like people do/did with Hami.

Now, whether or not this is justification for Enhancement Diversification (love that phrase) is another matter...

[Superchum]

Yep, those who know me know I was a raving CoH fanboi at times; but my response to all this:

Account CANCELLED

I just joined you Armsman. My friend who got me back into the game hasn't logged on in 2 weeks (always a bad sign), so I was getting bored all over again.

And then I read the naming policy change.

This time it's for good, as I'm sure I'll lose at least a half dozen names for characters that I took quite a bit of time with getting up to level 14 for travel powers, just to get the concept right.

[Dalantia]

Then you didn't read the naming policy.

Unless your account has been deactivated for 90 days, the characters' names do not go back up into the ether - as long as your account is active, you keep the names, according to what I'm reading.

[Superchum]

Ah, but see, that's my problem with the policy. If I take another break like the first one I took (which was more than 90 days), I'll have the chance to lose the names to all of my characters save 1.

My scrapper, whom I retired.

It's just the straw that broke me is all. There's other issues that have me not all that thrilled with the game. With my friend, who says he'll be back online, but who's done that kind of stringing along with me in the past on other things, I just don't see him coming back. And the game's boring for me without friends to play with. I'm the last person left in all 6 of the SG's I have characters in. They've all left.

City of Villains, as you can tell from my review of the beta, isn't thrilling me. I see the same level grind there, with almost the exact same mission style. I don't have the heart or interest to do that treadmill again with what CoV brings to the table.

I still think CoH is a fun game. But I don't think I have a future in it. At least last year, when I thought the same thing, there was always the HOPE something new could bring me back.

At this point, with the new naming policy, I'm not going to bother.

That I could come back to EQ and still have Wubao there for me, but I run the risk of losing Superchum because he's just barely level 31 ...

it just makes my staying away after my remaining 19 days runs out that much easier.

I'm not bitter. I have no hard feelings, so if my post gives that impression, I apologize. I just don't like the naming policy, and find it is the final thing that will drive me from the game.

[Dalantia]

*nods* I can sympathize. I won't go into my own thoughts on my future/lack of in the Rogue Isles or Paragon (Though I'll say I intend to get CoV if only for the extra character slots), but I can see why others are getting bored or frustrated with the game.

Hope you find something you like better. ^_^

[Deanna]

Well.. I know my first post was full of vitrol and anger at Cryptic, but after being invited to CoV beta and playing it, I do intend to purchase it. And since upgrading my current CoH account and just adding CoV to it, I'll give the ED a try in CoH. Some of you may not like it, ( CoV ) but so far, I've had a blast.

[Aarthebs]

I've also had time to try out CoV a bit. I do like the new AT's, I think they're how CoH should have been from the start. Each one plays so differently, it's really quite clever. Unlike CoH where a "tanker" and a "scrapper" are really just different sides of the same coin, in CoV the "brute" and "stalker" (the AT's with the closest resemblance to the CoH two) play worlds differently than one another. I love the Stalker, so careful and crafty, while the Brute always wants to be fighting. Corruptors are the ultimate Offender class, exactly how I want to play my Defenders. Haven't tooled around much with Dominators, I'm not much on Controllers anymore. As for City of Masterminds, well I like the AT but they just seem way to easy.

And back to our Thread's point: As far as ED goes, I've been playing around on Test with some "ED-ified" builds and the changes are not so dire as some predict. If anything, I think it takes away the obligation that 6-slotting brought, I was pretty hung on the idea before. I still think that the easier way would have simply been to increase Hasten's recharge timer so it could not be perma. Same result as ED with less global nerfage. It's not like you couldn't be diverse before, but why would you when Hasten filled most of your recharge slotting needs?

I'm still hoping for some power tweaks to accomodate ED, things like reduced recharges on all the holds they nerfed and maybe some base increases to certain defenses and offenses (Ice armor and electric blast, I'm looking in your direction...), although I highly doubt this will happen. I also have decent hopes for the new "resistance" on the SR passives; they just might make the set a bit more predictable. Uh... at least they're trying, sorta.

If there's one thing I do like about all these changes, it's that it makes the lower-end game easier (12% less end use pre-stamina will be very nice) while making the game harder as you progress. Pretty much the direct opposite of how it is now, and it makes a lot more sense.[/i]

[Kaane Feiwong]

You know, having played with these settings, all of this "I quit!" and "This is too much!" is just silly. In fact, it's nothing less than typical Internet complaining and argumentative BS. The idea is to promote the use of the other forms of enhancements. If you focus on a few other areas you receive NO LOSS. you know that, you read it but instead of researching it and actually playing with it, some people are only seeing that one part where fully slotted powers with the same type are quick to say "I'm nerfed!" and quit when it was a small change to begin with.

Adding in another SO Damage Enhancement will not give you a 99% bonus, but a 94%

"OH NO! 5% LESS DAMAGE! OMG! I CAN'T FIGHT!" You're being ridiculous if you quit over this. Chances are, you were already looking for some reason to quit and you wanted to make a big deal of it. You’re not impressing anyone by jumping on the wagon with everyone else who is quiting especially since it’s not even in the live game yet. If you wanted to quit, just admit it. Stop trying to find a reason. You are the reason you decided to quit.

[Brinian]

You're assuming the enhancements are white, and that you're only using 3 of the same type.

These are the percentages for green enhancements that someone posted on the training room forum:

SO Order +3 +2 +1
1st SO: 38.3% 36.6% 35.0%
2nd SO: 37.6% 36.3% 34.9%
3rd SO: 21.3% 23.5% 25.8%
4th SO: 5.7% 5.5% 5.2%
5th SO: 5.7% 5.5% 5.2%
6th SO: 5.7% 5.5% 5.2%

As an example, let's look at an attack power that does 100 points of damage unenhanced. With 6 +3 SO damage enhancements, that power would do 329.8 points of damage pre-ED. With ED in effect, that power would do 214.3 points of damage.

Those are the numbers for 'schedule A' enhancements, but I would expect similar reductions in power for other enhancement types.

[Superchum]

It's not ED alone driving people from the game Kaane. It's ED on the heels of updates 4 and 5. It's ED added to what CoV does and more importantly does not bring to your gameplay.

Heck, for me, it's not even ED. It's the naming policy change, which for me is an absolute on their part.

I wouldn't worry too much though Kaane. The CoH playerbase is small but loyal. A lot of people stick to it as tightly as they can, and even nerfs like ED won't really hurt that.

It's just CoV so far, hasn't provided the game with much ability to grow and expand its playerbase.

It's got some interesting bits, but isn't really taking the game anywhere. In fact, in terms of progression, it's going backwards simply due to the level cap.

[Kaane Feiwong]

Those figures take into effect a fully slotted power, but if you slot a attack power with 2 +3 SOs, you double your attack speed. So using that, you would get almost the same DPS as a fully slotted power in the old method, which is their intention with this. To promote the use of other slotting methods.

Also, the numbers for the 3rd S0 I think are backwards.

[Brinian]

The numbers for the third SO should be correct. The soft cap is 100%, and as the relative level of the enhancements increases that third SO is pushed farther over the cap.

Those figures take into effect a fully slotted power, but if you slot a attack power with 2 +3 SOs, you double your attack speed. So using that, you would get almost the same DPS as a fully slotted power in the old method, which is their intention with this. To promote the use of other slotting methods.
Unfortunately, nothing affects your attack speed. Recharge enhancements improve the recharge speed, but those enhancements lose their value once you're able to chain together a sequence of attacks such that you're never waiting for a power to recharge. I was usually able to accomplish that using just Hasten, or in the case of my defender Hasten + AM.

Keep in mind that ED doesn't just affect attack powers. It nerfs defensive powers, debuffs, holds, Stamina, etc. The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that the idea is half-baked.

[Kaane Feiwong]

Unfortunately, nothing affects your attack speed

Ok, now your just nit picking. Of course nothing affects actual attack "speed" in CoH, but it's to be understood that is referring to recharge speed since a"ttack speed" has never been a factor in CoH.

I would agree that certain "powers" like Quick Recovery or Resilience where your selection for enhancements are limited then your not getting anything but an out right nurf since you CAN'T slot anything else.

but those enhancements lose their value once you're able to chain together a sequence of attacks such that you're never waiting for a power to recharge

This only applies to those who have enough attack powers to chain and is a bad example. It is the use of recharge enhancements that would allow someone of lower level to increase the speed of their powers so that they could better chain their attacks.

[Brinian]

It was not my intention to nitpick. Let me put it this way: knowledgable players who try to maximize their DPS generally use Hasten and try to chain their attacks together in such a way that they're never waiting for their powers to recharge. In that context, recharge enhancements will not give the benefits you claim.

ED is not going to affect lower-level characters. It's targetted at characters whose powers are full of SO enhancements. Statesman has been saying for a long time that he felt SO's and the way people were using them was overpowered. Apparently this is his solution.

Look, you obviously like ED, and I can respect that. I can't see it as anything but a major nerf to my characters and my playstyle though. I'm just glad that I played CoH when I did, and that I quit when I did.

[Bodhidharma]

ED = Erectile Dysfunction?

[Taallyn]

ED = Erectile Dysfunction?

ED = Enhancement Diversification

or, basically what you said ;)

[Shakira]

All I can say is that I quit CoH in August because of the announced I5 changes, which I thought were overboard. I left CoH on my computer in case I was ever tempted to return (which I wasn't yet to this point). Now I'm taking it off because I never wish to return to CoH. Statesman has to be one of the most misguided or dishonest developers ever for any MMO, depending on whether you believe he really had these changes in mind all along since March. Even if so why not inform the players long before now? Why constantly overhaul the entire game so that it is not at all similiar to what it once was, and what attracted so many players to begin with? It's almost like he is purposely trying to drive players away. Yes I know the CoH fanbois are probably more loyal than just about any other MMO fanbois are (as evidenced by the way they react if you dare criticize CoH on their forums), but that base is just too small to maintain much of a profit margin. A lot of the regular players who just play to have fun and like developing their heroes are going to be fed up with constanly having to respec and relearn how to play. CoH is not what it once was, a great game I really loved and defended. Now it is just City of Not So Powerful Heroes. As for Cov and trying it when it comes out after all this garbage? Yeah right, I'm all over that, NOT.

[Bergard]

I considered returning to CoH with CoV coming out soon, but with the huge changes made to the game recently plus ED, I'm going to avoid it like the plague.

[Kaane Feiwong]

I tested the live ED last night. There are also sweeping changes as a whole such as endurance decreases and whole slew of stuff including new graphics. I was still able to solo 2 purple lts and 2 red minions without a trouble. I took on 9 even Maltas and still did ok. Orange and red Bosses I was able to lay the smack down.

In addition, you can now hover over your powers and get exactly what statistics you enchancementss are adding.

You now can have "minions" such as freakshow and paragon protectors fight with you in Gladitorial combat in the arena.

Booty Bay was a blast. I even got zapped by the CoV drone and sent to the CoV prison in the sky.

I'm posting this so that everyone who only saw the worst will know that everything seems bad because you made it seem bad. The changes are not what made you angry, you made yourself angry. CoH is still fun. I was able to perform exactly the same if not better. You have massive free content and if you are going to quit simply becuase you wanted to jump on the band wagon of hate, well that just saves the bandwith for those of us that do play. I encourage you to try it yourself.

[ArmsmanCoH]

I tested the live ED last night. There are also sweeping changes as a whole such as endurance decreases and whole slew of stuff including new graphics. I was still able to solo 2 purple lts and 2 red minions without a trouble. I took on 9 even Maltas and still did ok. Orange and red Bosses I was able to lay the smack down.

In addition, you can now hover over your powers and get exactly what statistics you enchancementss are adding.

You now can have "minions" such as freakshow and paragon protectors fight with you in Gladitorial combat in the arena.

Booty Bay was a blast. I even got zapped by the CoV drone and sent to the CoV prison in the sky.

I'm posting this so that everyone who only saw the worst will know that everything seems bad because you made it seem bad. The changes are not what made you angry, you made yourself angry. CoH is still fun. I was able to perform exactly the same if not better. You have massive free content and if you are going to quit simply becuase you wanted to jump on the band wagon of hate, well that just saves the bandwith for those of us that do play. I encourage you to try it yourself.

Believe me, I've tried it, and XX/SR got screwed as did XX/INV (Tankers or Scrappers). Most Defenders can't solo even of Heroic, but for the most part soloing Controllers and some Blasters are fine as they were already Diversified (ie 3 SO's of any one type in a power max.)

If your caharcter is level 22 or below, there's really no change as the ED percentage caps only come into play with SO's (you can 6 slot DO's and you won't see any difference in ED). However, at Level 22+ where SO's come into play; if you DID slot your powers as you level up; you'll probably need/want to respec at that point (and hell, in response to this Statesman is considering giving an AUTOMATIC free respec at level 22. To me, if it's gotten to the point where you feel the need to outright give a new leveling up character a free respec; SOMETHING is flawed in your game design.

See, for me, here's the issue with ED:

Can I still solo? Yes, hell, I cn solo on Invincible.

Is it as fun as before? No.

Why? One of the things that I liked about CoH was the fact that combat was fast and frantic compared to other MMO's. ED has essentially thrown that out the window for my main. Also, while I solo jut fine, in groups of 4 or more SR gets chewed an spit out.

I5 was more than enough to bring the 'challenge' back into the game; ED is overkill, and by some of Staesman's other comments, they AIN'T done tweaking balance.

The CoH Dev Team seems too focused on balance for their new PvP toy, CoV; and seem to have all but forgotten about new/interesting/more actual game content (imo).

The main reason I'm leaving is because of both the attitude the CoH Dev Team seems to have taken toward it's existing Playerbase as well as the fact that their focus now seems to be focused overmuch on power analysis and tweaking and NOT on creating new and perhaps better and more challenging content.

CoH (imo) was once a really good an fun game. It's turned into something else now; and the funny thing is that the way they have the open PvP structured, it's so neutered that I sincirely doubt it'll attract or retain the PvP crowd beyond the free month.

Anyway, if you're one of the few who like having character creation choices that were once valid and doable REMOVED; more power to you; it's pretty certain at this point that CoH servers will never have a lag or overpopulation problem if things continue as they are; but it'll be interestingto see how far NCSoft is willing to het the subscriber base drop to, before showing Jack and his Dev Team the door. If Cryptic thinks the brand of PvP will get CoH/CoV hordes of new subscibers; I think they need to step back, put down their comic books and come into the real world of how to ATTRACT new customers to your MMORPG instead of driving them off in droves.

But the MMORPG analysts are correct in that SoE seems to set the standard that all companies eventually follow; and after nearly 2 years, Cryptic has shown their staff to be good students in that they are nerfing the game to oblivion and driving away/not bothering to listen to their paying playerbase - much like SoE.

[Shotan]

Well, screw it.

Been kinda bored with COH so this month I cancelled.

Playing a villian and PVP hold no interest for me.

Bases? meh

Sweeping nerfs over and over, thumbs down.

[Dalantia]

Respec dragon, he works fine at 37 with Dark Armor.

Respec tanker, he's 50 anyway.

No-respec Peacebringer (at 32), works fine.

I find the sky to be non-falling, (except for the insane prestige cost for everything, and the fact that no inf is gained past 35 if you're getting prestige), and that we can go back to our everyday lives.

I'm a teensy bit worried about my Empath defender, but that's about it. And looking forward to starting my Mastermind.

[Shakira]

The thing is that the Stateman excuse makers don't seem to care about is that the game was fine the way it was after I4 (PLing was rampant yes, big deal), and was actually rebounding in subscriptions after a slump in the second half of 2004. It's the old cardinal rule, "if it ain't broke..." What they should have done is bring some of the lacking power sets up to par and make the content more challenging and diverse by increasing the AI on villians, and giving them new abilities (ones that would make herding much more challenging such as Bosses TPing heroes to them). That would not have angered people like these nerfs have, but apparently the hundreds if not thousands of posts suggesting such ideas in July after I5 was announced fell on deaf ears. The fact is that it is human nature that people do not like to have things they've earned taken away (ie: nerfs). People don't like to be misled, as Statesman has with not being up front with his plans for CoH all along, and he still isn't because I would bet he has even more coming. Only MMO elitests and fanbois will eat up whatever nerfs or other game breaking things are added to a game without complaint. There are some people who play and post on those official forums whom I think would cheer even if Cryptic decided to delete all their characters someday and called it class balance.

I once loved this game as much as anyone. I defended it against people saying it sucked. I just simply think these nerfs were unnecessary and quite uninspired. Cryptic could have tried to do things differently than other MMO companies for once and added challenge by spending a little effort to improve the game, not take away. I would also point out to those who say the typical old line "good riddance, go quit the game, less lag for me," don't be stupid. It is not healthy for the future of CoH if people do quit in droves. The playerbase is already rather small as it is and if CoH drops below 100k subscribers there won't be much money around to fund new content very often. They sure better hope CoV attracts a lot of new players because they aren't doing a good job holding onto the ones they have. I predict CoV will see an influx of new players but in a year most of them will have left and CoH/CoV will be at or below 100k subscribers. The precedence is already there when last year many left after a few months of CoH because of the lack of high level content and diversity, something they should be working on instead of nerfs.

[Kaane Feiwong]

The REAL thing is that people do not like to think themselves as weak. Even if they are or not, if you think it, it must be.

I'm no more of a fan of CoH than I am of WoW and EQ2 as I play a little of each every day and I see the same things in all three games. Many of you do to. CoH may not have been broke, but it wasn't going in the way the creaters wanted.

You are upset becuase you have can't get past the negative and not focusing on the fun. Maybe that's how you are in real life, I don't know, but I do know that I'm not going to waste my free time complaining about something I can't control and worrying about a minor change in the overall effectivness of a power reference in some game! It's rediculous and prevents me from having any enjoyment. MMOG's change. It's that simple. All major games have had sweeping changes. From UO, to EQ on to Final Fantasy and CoH, and even WoW, and EQ2. Naysayers and Doomspeakers always tout the end of game and yet they still remain. This is often because either other people are doing it, or they want people to feel their misery.

My final suggestion on this matter (and this board) is one that I really hope all of you who have cancelled and yet once enjoyed CoH take to heart. Let the negativity go and just try it. You just might find you like it. Especially if your in a Halloween mood.

Have fun guys. I hope to see some of you in CoH, WoW or EQ2. Enjoy the wagon rides and enjoy yourself.

[Aarthebs]

Fair warning: The following gets incredibly fan-boi'ish. That's fine with me.

If there's anything these changes haven't done, it's change my playstyle one iota. I respeced all my toons and promptly realized that I'm doing almost the exact same as always. If anything, I'm glad to finally have that orange glow off my hands.

I really hated the sound of these changes when I first heard them (I5 + ED), like most people I was wondering of the devs, "why not more content, idiots??" Then it hit me - what content could they possibly develop that would be remotely challenging for 95% invulns and burn tankers, and yet not complete overkill for the rest of the playerbase? Even if the AI was better, it wouldn't matter one bit for a optimized build. They would plow through everything the devs could throw at them within hours. Even if herding were eliminated (which it was, thanks to a new mob aggro limit stealithy introduced in I6... but in lieu of changed I mean) it would still keep the initial problem of ridiculously strong players versus weak enemies. And if enemies started TP'ing players? Ya, that would rock... you're running away from a fight and suddenly "You will not evade me, Drop!" Hey, that looks awfully familier, wonder where I've seen that before...?

The only recourse would be to add more "hamidon-style" enemies (which would suck like nobodies business) or make the new content so ridiculously hard that *only* a properly-built AT could hope to stand up to it. They did try something similar to this. You all probably remember it, they buffed bosses to the gills a few issues back. And exactly what I described above happened: The uber builds laughed and just raked in more exp, while everybody else got their asses handed to them - Because not everybody wants to spend time researching every little change to their character, nor do they want to spend time finding a 10k tank just to play the game. Buffing other AT's to the point where they could compete with the "uber builds" would only compound the problem. Again: They would have to design content around the fact that you are optimizing your AT, which not that many people bother to do. The bar would be set ridiculously high, defense builds simply could *not* cope with an enemy designed around putting a dent in a 95% invuln tanker, not to mention what such an enemy would do to everything else.

All I6 and ED did was lower the bar between an "optimized" build and a casual one. That's it. Enemy strength was not touched, and in I5 the majority of problem-child enemies were toned down (boss and AV to-hit chance reduced, Rularuu to-hit chance reduced, alot of auto-hit powers given a to-hit roll now, etc.). Will an "optimized" build be better still? Of course, but its no longer the massive rift it once was. This also makes the end-game more challenging, which is a good thing. For the right build, the end game of CoH was laughably easy while it was the opening levels, 1-20, where the real challenge lay. That's just sad, and it highlights the problem with optimized builds. Again, I stress the point that buffing end-game villians would make that part of the game a total mess, it would make the game more like EQ than the current changes ever could. AT be damned, any casual player would be destroyed by such a change, because they would not be taking and slotting powers in the "correct" way to handle these villians.

And that's my sermon. I fully believe that with these changes, we'll start seeing more of a high-end game, because it won't be walked over in all of two hours. Yes, I know that is incredibly nieve of me to think the devs won't go through and nerf my powers even moreso. Because of course that's all they really want to do. I'm still enjoying this game. And what's more, the capacity to enjoy this game still exists. Hell, I think its better now that one player with the right AT and the right build can no longer completely eclipse the contribution of a 7-man team. Major props to the devs for having the cajones to stand up get this done, I can't imagine the sheer amount of flack they must have put up with through these last coule months.

For all those who are leaving because of the nerfs, I would hope you give it another chance in a few weeks/months. Once all the smoke has cleared and everybody has had the chance to adjust, I think you'll find the game plays suspiciously similar to how you remember it.

Peace out ya'll,

"You are upset becuase "

Just want to rant again for a bit. I'm upset because the new name policy makes it impossible for me to take a break from the game longer than 3 months.

That's why I'm upset. The game is now either or. Either stick around all the time, or run the risk of losing the names of most of your alts. I don't like the game doing that to me. Sometimes I take long breaks. I did last time. And still returned. But the new policy means I won't return.

And the only reason they did this new policy was to clear out names for all the new people who are going to buy CoV.

Which is just a repeat of CoH's first 40 levels.

Grrrrrrrr.

Where is the advanced character progression in this game? Where is the never-ending battle for truth and justice? Where does the game go from here?

If I'm going to get yoked into having to almost continually play the game, then they should CONTINUE the game.

That's the contradiction I have a problem with. Doing that 1 to 40 (for villains) or 1 to 50 grind over and over again isn't incentive TO stick around. But the new naming policy forces me to stick around.

Those two aspects of the game are odds with each other. It's time to develop either 10 new levels (51 to 60) ... or SOME sort of progression for level 50 characters. Or kill the stupid naming policy, since alt after alt after alt IS the only high end content the game provides.

:(

[Wubao]

"You are upset becuase "

Just want to rant again for a bit. I'm upset because the new name policy makes it impossible for me to take a break from the game longer than 3 months.

That's why I'm upset. The game is now either or. Either stick around all the time, or run the risk of losing the names of most of your alts. I don't like the game doing that to me. Sometimes I take long breaks. I did last time. And still returned. But the new policy means I won't return.

And the only reason they did this new policy was to clear out names for all the new people who are going to buy CoV.

Which is just a repeat of CoH's first 40 levels.

Grrrrrrrr.

Where is the advanced character progression in this game? Where is the never-ending battle for truth and justice? Where does the game go from here?

If I'm going to get yoked into having to almost continually play the game, then they should CONTINUE the game.

That's the contradiction I have a problem with. Doing that 1 to 40 (for villains) or 1 to 50 grind over and over again isn't incentive TO stick around. But the new naming policy forces me to stick around.

Those two aspects of the game are odds with each other. It's time to develop either 10 new levels (51 to 60) ... or SOME sort of progression for level 50 characters. Or kill the stupid naming policy, since alt after alt after alt IS the only high end content the game provides.

:(

Bah. This post is by me. I forgot to log in. Sorry.

[Taallyn]

I don't like the changes. I've noticed that they actually remove a lot originality from people's builds as there are specialized builds which were fun to play before that are no longer viable. All ED really does is force a different sort of template on people. It doesn't truely diversify anything.

That said, CoH/CoV is still fun for me. It is the only game that really matches my lifestyle, and provides the sort of gaming enjoyment I'm looking for in an MMO. The biggest problem I've had with it lately is some of the true, dishonesty the development team has shown towards segments of the playerbase. They are starting to show some SOEishness in that regard, and that more than anything else is what makes me neverous.