Str and Agi are now the "monk stats" it seems

my str is 170, my Agi is now 180, i dropped my Sta more than 20 points to get 25 points into Agi,



i still tank better than any dumb Ranger =)

and still solo Echo/rathe HG's/EJ/DL/FP guards, just as good, and more often than not, better than i did before nerf!



i wish there was some way to prove this...but i dont know yet, sunday i was able to solo in echo, one of the underbulks only hit me twice! for less than 20 dmg! and i wasnt ID kiting!

im a 45 iksar monk, with 1023 Attack, and 945ish AC,

acrylia armor...mostly, no fungi, and a goranga and a Sos for weps,



i love my monk =)



AC and HP are a WARROIRS stats! not a monks =-)

I say way to go VI....now if they could learn how to code...or PLAN!! that would be even Better!



i would however like to see some dmg taken comparisons from pre-nerf and post nerf, that would be interesting


"Did ya see that sky today! talk about blue!"</p>

[Fopoodzo]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>i wish there was some way to prove this...but i dont know yet<hr></blockquote>





Parse it. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">


</p>

[Jinpo]

I've been focusing on dex now more than ever--maybe if it's higher, I'll get a few more procs (stuns) out of my adamantite club, which is 3-6 more seconds total during a fight where a light blue mob isn't doubling me for 80.


</p>

I've got about a 40-45% evasion rate on blue mobs. I parsed this duoing PoI yard trash with a 61 cleric. She ran OOM keeping me alive there. Wanna see the gear, feel free to click below. That's exactly what I was wearing at the time.


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<span style="color:red;font-family:Comic Sans MS;font-size:medium;">Monk of the 57th Fist</span>
<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;font-size:x-small;"></span></div><div style="text-align:center">f33r my l337 n00b g@3r! (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=25743)</div></p>

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>i dropped my Sta more than 20 points to get 25 points into Agi<hr></blockquote>



God you're an idiot Hardez. You're also talking about still being able to solo HG's and shit. We've made it perfectly clear and known that the nerf didn't affect uber tier 1 monks, and monks soloing mobs under lvl 50. You were a new monk not too long ago, so i'm guess you're still under 50, or in low 50's. In that case, stfu, you don't know what you're talking about. So at level 60 you gave up 80 hitpoints through your 20 sta to gain like 5ac from the 25agi you gained. HP/AC aren't warrior stats. Try staying alive without HP. Ignorant people I swear.


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[Savanti]

STA > AGI > DEX > STR > CHA > INT > WIS for monks.



I'm working primarily on STA/DEX however as I have lvl 1 ingenuity and working on level 2. I love criting lifetaps.


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that would be wtg SOE, not VI

<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":p">


<hr />My "HP/AC wrong" Magelo (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=140534)
Curscale Bloodyscales < Knights of Reverence > Xev</p>

Svanti, you're confusing me.. What's ingenuity?



<---- n00b... Call it like you see it. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":p">


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[Savanti]

Planer Ability - AAXP.



Allows you to PROC a CRIT with DAMAGE rendering proc weapons.



See article here



Ingenuity explanation on Monk Boards (http://pub35.ezboard.com/fmonklybusiness43508frm16.showMessage?topicID=450. topic)



I'm lvl 61 with Ingenuity lvl 1 of 3. I keep dex at 260 until I ding agian or get Planer Power <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">


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It could be just my imagination but...





It seems ingenuity decreased the casting time on my BP Heals.





Not real sure how to test that though because I never timed it pre-ingenuity.





It just seems faster.








Rhizzen Khillahpriest <Darkblood>

54 Necromancer of Innoruuk

Sol Ro





Sensai Ssoulz Jah <Darkblood>

60 Grandmaster of Cazic Thule

Sol Ro



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</div></p>

so im an idiot...because....i dont care if i have 80 more HP at lvl 60? woooooooo look out! me and my bad self has 80 more HPs!!



ok oh smart one, what does it matter if i have more HPs especially in such a small amout, if i never get hit?



AGI effects much more than just AC, i couldnt really give a fat rats ass about AC! i dont care if i get hit for 200 every hit if I only get hit once per melee fight!



and spells? how often do you think i'll take full Nuke dmg when my resists are all over 200? (they arnt YET!)



also you say that the "nerf" doesnt 'uber tier 1 monks" which im NOT, 10k in items is hardly 'uber'

and yes im only 45, but if you where to open your eyes and pay a little attention you would notice that half the monks whining about the nerf are also under 50!



also why should i raise my STA, when im only getting hit 20-30% of the mobs swings...sometimes less~!



and BTW the mobs im soloing in DL, THAT I COULDNT SOLO BEFORE MY RAISE IN AGI, are the thief bone skellies in DL at the giant spires...or whatever they are called!



so again i say AGI imo is MUCH more important than STA!



and 80 HP isnt anything! most mobs at MY lvl hit for that much, and more,

but like i said if im not getting hit in the first place, who cares?



try staying alive while taking dmg every swing. ignorant people I swear.


"Did ya see that sky today! talk about blue!"</p>

I've had AGI at 255 through buffs since the patch. Increase in avoidance over my base AGI of 159 - 0.5 to maybe 1.5% (in addition to the AC, which stops going up due to AGI at about 240).



AC (to 1100+ for 'Old World' zones, 1150+ for Kunark and Vellious, 1200+ for Luclin zones; and I canm't get past 1217 with buffs, so I have no clue on the PoP cap), will serve you better (depending where you hunt mostly) followed by HP, STA, then AGI/DEX (if you have a procing weapon, DEX owns over AGI).



From what I've seen and parsed, if you can get AGI to 125+, that's a good breakpoint. I would still rate AC > All to the points listed above, and if you can't reach that buffed/unbuffed, HP/STA are still > AGI/DEX (imo).



Stats in EQ still don't make that appreciable a difference in EQ, regardless of what VI would haver the players believe.



Just as an example - In ME fighting Level 57+ 4-Arms, at 1197, I still get hit for 180+ a lot. At 1205, it drops to a lot of 80's -90's with the less frequent 180+ hit. Did this over 4 mights, at 4+ Hours each night, so to me, it's pretty conclusive that AC> All depending on your hunting grounds.






<div style="text-align:center">http://www.catplex.org/chilau/chilau_fk5.jpg
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>I say way to go VI....now if they could learn how to

>code...or PLAN!! that would be even Better!



Just admit it you work for Verant (Sony), come on we all know it! Admit it and be done with it!



Thanks for your honesty,



-Fysts (nerfed 57 human monk and pissed about it)




</p>

[Keyeluke]

"AGI effects much more than just AC, i couldnt really give a fat rats ass about AC! i dont care if i get hit for 200 every hit if I only get hit once per melee fight!"



False.



By implication, you're stating that AGI affects our various avoidance skills. It's been repeatedly hashed out here. Both from testing and from direct VI quotes, Agi has no effect on your chance to block/dodge/riposte. Agi only affects skillups in block and dodge. Your skill determines your chance to successfully block/dodge/riposte.



Agi adds AC. You can see the effect. There is no additional hidden effect.


Keyeluke

Number One Son

http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=27415</p>

Not to mention STR isn't good for much beyond eyecandy.



So sorry!


</p>

Are you fucking joking Hardez? Who's ignorant? AGI is useless buddy, completely. You THINK you can solo better cuse of increased AGI, which is ridiculous. 80hp is nothing? Why is it then that an items with 80hp go for 15-50k (just off the top of my head?). I guess the people who know about this game (unlike yourself) are wrong ay?



You're level 45, and you're a joke. Everything you've come to believe is about perception, and not based around facts. The facts and numbers will state that weapon A is better than weapon B right? Well when you wield weapon B, you seem to think you're hitting harder and faster. Is this true? Nope. Is it the way you perceive it? Yes.



You claim that AGI does more than increase your AC, it makes mobs miss you, and that your HP doesn't matter, if you're not getting hit. Wait til you increase levels, tell me 80hp doesn't matter, and that you're still not getting hit. This game has been out almost 4 years if you include better. People much smarter than you have run an unbelievable number of tests and provided data disproving your claims. Oh, I guess those people are wrong too. You know SOO much about this game after like what, 6 months? You fucking moron. There's no point in arguing with you because you're blatantly ignorant, and you'll NEVER understand. You can't educate the dumbasses of this world, but that's something I have trouble coming to grips with, since I have faith in people in general. Except for you that is.


<div style="text-align:center">Anomalos Malakas - 57 Iksar Monk</div> (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=36545)<div style="text-align:center">Quant - 55 Ogre Shaman</div> (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=56948)<div style="text-align:center">Squeaky Kleen - 54 Halfling Druid</div> (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=218254)</p>

STR doesn't seem to increase damage of any given hit, according to parsing. But STR does increase your attack rating, which correlates to more hits and less misses, even if the damage per increased hit doesn't change.



AGI does improve armor class. 3 Agility = 1 AC.. Armor Class in Everquest does not seem to correlate to the mob hitting or missing, but rather to reduced damage taken when hit. And of course, if the armor is good enough and the hit weak enough, zero damage taken can be preceived as the mob missing. If you add 25 AGI.. that's 8 or 9 ac. Against a light blue mob that can barely even hit you, 9 ac might make a difference. Against a high blue or even con, its going to hit you with ease.



Stats in and of themselves don't make a big difference. On the other hand, things dependent upon stats make can make a slight difference. Stats do mean something.



If stats don't mean something, then acquiring Primal with a 100 stat proc is not an upgrade? Or there's no bonus in getting 255 to str/dex/sta/agi? Sure stats mean quite a bit.











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</p>

Ulaa, primal is a huge buff because of the +133 pure ATK that you get from it. The +100 str/dex/agi have a minor effect by comparison.



And you are wrong about STR. STR does raise your ATK, but all ATK points are not created equal. ATK from STR raises your maximum possible hit, but affects your average hit only slightly. It is a very small overall increase in damage.



Pure ATK from buffs such as Call of the Predator, Avatar and the monk epic will cause you to hit for more damage on average. This has a big effect on your damage output.


Shakah Lakalaka / Monk of the Tribunal</p>

Heh, finally, and educated man =)


<div style="text-align:center">Anomalos Malakas - 57 Iksar Monk</div> (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=36545)<div style="text-align:center">Quant - 55 Ogre Shaman</div> (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=56948)<div style="text-align:center">Squeaky Kleen - 54 Halfling Druid</div> (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=218254)</p>

Before the nerfed, I would also agree that STA > AGI.

But IMO, I think this is reverse now. What is the point of having 80 extra hitpoint when each hit will strip you of 100 plus dmg. AGI = avoidance ac and ATM, I believe it is more relevant. But since avoidance means crap when we are pulling, maybe the few extra hp will help you make it back to camp. Well again, what will an extra 80 hp do for you when mobs are max dmg you.



I think this is the whole qualitive vs quantitive thing. AGI ac is qualitive. It can not be physically measured with certainty (ie. I think I am avoiding about 20% more atks). While STA=HP is quantitive. I know I have exactly 80 more hps. To some ppls, it is more comforting seeing the increase in hp becasue it is tangible.



Hey you know as well as I do that VI likes to screw with our heads. So just go with whatever you are comfortable with.






</p>

[Savanti]

Ok lets do the math.



3agil = 1ac (avoidance, not mitigation)



1250 is pretty much the cutoff for seeing any noticeable difference in luclin, and from what I've seen so far in pop.



1ac isn't much, not in the least.



lets say you go with 20agil or 20 sta.



80hp may be the buffer that saves you on a Divine light, or CH, while 6ac does jack didly for you.



6ac or 80hp.



hmmm... think I'll take the HP.



If you had 305 agility maybe. that's 100ac. But when making the choice out of only a few points IE 20 this and 20 that. STA > all.



305sta = 1220hp



1220hp or 100ac? hmmm.... I think again, I'll go HP.


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actually, str plays a pretty decent role in dmg done.... i hit for 130~150 max at the moment with my IFS with 140str... buffed to 200+, i'm hitting for 180~200's pretty consistantly...



buffs are always good <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">


</p>

lucidus- buffs are situational and different, you dont sacrifice stamina for dex and str, but when you get free dex and str, its fine.



hardez - even with the mitigation changes, your agility is still not going to be as valuable as ac/hp. you haven't seen the bad parts of this nerf because it hurt the 50-60 crowd far worse than the 1-50 crowd.



anomalos - Back off asshole. He's just expressing his opinion, and because it doesn't fall in line with fact, you have to try and ram your 'i'm right, you are wrong because you are lvl 45' cock down his throat? take a chill pill and shut the fuck up.



stop being such an arrogant elitist prick.



*edit* nerfed sig, cause im too lazy to convert it to ezcode


</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub35.ezboard.com/bmonklybusiness43508.showUserPublicProfile?gid=bal aeriphon>Balaeriphon</A> at: 10/31/02 12:10:20 am

Just admit it you work for Verant (Sony), come on we all know it! Admit it and be done with it!



Thanks for your honesty,



L0L! do you really think i'd only have 180 agi? and only 170 str if i actually worked for VI?



if i did i would have raised HELL when they decided to nerf monks!

well actually i wouldnt have...i would have done it differently!


"Did ya see that sky today! talk about blue!"</p>

i must appologize....after some looking into my class it seems the nerf bat will start beating on me in exactly 3 levels,



so i have untill then to find a new solo class,



i was waisted in kaesora, i was waisted in EJ, i was wasted in solb, i was waisted in Lguk,



im still doing great in DL, and in Echo....so now what?



where should i go when im 49?


"Did ya see that sky today! talk about blue!"</p>