View Full Version : Jboots need to be changed - ( a red players view )
Ahh jboots,
There effect should be changed on red servers to even out the PvP field either that or a new quest should be instituted that allows ALL/ALL to click and sow themselves.
Currently there are 4 classes that sow shammen, druids, beast lords, and rangers. currently these classes have a super advantage over ALL of ther classes in PvP due to there
1. being able to Sow themselves and there pets and
2. having clickable items that allow them to sow at no mana cost to themselves.
Any of the above classes and run circles around a running or jbooted character with ease. They can run in nuke or dot and be away before the person they are attacking can do anything about it. Rangers don't even need to nuke they can just bow a character down at range. Currently if you are a tank and can get in to melee range with any of these classes they will run away from you within seconds and give you no possible means of attacking them. Its sad but very true. One can buy sow potions but this does become expensive over time. While the ability for certain classes to cast a sow on themselves and there pets while other classes have to purchase this ability moves the coffin closer to the gave of this argument its the clickable items that kick the coffin over the side and throw the dirt in.
The clickable sow items allow the above classes to resow themselves in a PvP fight with lil or no hastle. In PvP pumice is still used frequently by red server players ( even after its nerfing ). I personnally carry 2 to 4 stones on me at all times. With a few of them for the people I fight and the others for de-rooting and snaring myself. At the begining of a fight sometimes you will debuff your opponent with pumice so that they are moving at the same speed and so that you can "catch them". With these clickable items the formentioned classes can pop the sow back up with little fuss or muss while any other class will have to wait out the long casting time of a sow potion. A period of time witch isn't always available during a PvP battle.
One way yo even things out would be to allow ALL players to move at this speed by upgraded jboot speed to sow speed or adding new quest to allow all classes and all races to move at clickable sow speed.
One thing people might bring up is why not get a horse. Well horses are very expensive for the slight evening of the PvP playing field they give. The 80K horse moves at sow speed but takes months of farming money and items to get. Add into that what <50 player has that kind of money to spend on a horse? There money will be tied up in equipment and spells trying to improve there gear so that they can gain more levels. The only horse with any value to me is the 130k bard speed horse. As an iksar we are probably talking about an extra 20k or so so +150k due to the fact that I regen slightly and level slower than my human brother monks. when was the last time anyone of you out there made +150k farming money. Also take into account that the red server I play on ( Sullon Zek ) is maturing and people are spending less plat buying items due to the items that have previously flooded the market and dropped the prices down significatly. While horses even out the speed they can't be taken into dungeons while a SOW can. Its quite easy and common place to sow before entering a dungeon.
Just my thoughts, If you have any comments please do reply.
Thankx,
Ironmokey
56 iksar monk
Sullon Zek
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Granted, I'm not on a red server. However, the day PoP shipped, I was in an EB and found myself talking to someone who plays a level 60 MB wizard on a pvp server.
Why complain that you cannot catch the guy (sow potion anyone?) when a wizard can, completely oput of the blue, manaburn you from max spell range, without you even knowing he's there?
For that matter, why complain about JBoots when a 60 ranger with AM3/EQ can snare you, root you, and plink away until you die?
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How is it that the problem is a game breaker in one sentence, but then later on you say that having a horse is a "slight evening of the PvP playing field". So which is it? I played on Sullon. I certainly know that Sow is a huge advantage. It seems though that you are conflicted in how serious the issue is. I know the shaman click sow is fairly easy to get, but you do have to be high level, so without help, none of your sub 50 opponents should have access to this item. Not sure what the druid/ranger/bst insta click sow items are, but unless they're super easy it would seem that this probably isnt' a problem until at least the late 40's early 50's.
Being able to affect an opponents movement is a huge advantage in PVP. Obviously, other than the Treant Staff, all of the other items that would allow you that capability are either very high level or are expendable charged items. No one needs to tell you that running across a wide open outdoor zone, you are going to be in trouble. Anyplace with a wall and you should be immune to bow damage. Against any shaman or druid, look to fight them in tight spaces inside.
Dunno what can be done, but I assure you that there is no way your suggestions would be adopted by Verant. J-Boots are supposed to be inferior to Sow.
</p>
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Why complain that you cannot catch the guy (sow potion anyone?) when a wizard can, completely oput of the blue, manaburn you from max spell range, without you even knowing he's there?
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Any red server player worth there salt will know when a new player enters "there" zone. While you won't know exactly where they are you know they are most likely coming from one zone enterance or another. All red server player learn to check the zone there in every few seconds for new people in zone. Once some one enters you check there guild and get ready to fight if they are on another team. Its pretty straight forward on Sullon Zek if an opposing team enters your zone you either run , fight or gear up to fight.
As for the MB it happen and theres not much you can do about it. Also remember it can be interupted and having that SOW will help close the distance much faster. If your worried about MB you haven't seen or heard of the +61 PvP game. A +61 wiz with a 50's bard and cleric took out 5 of my 6 person group ( 52 monk, 56 monk, 60 shamen, 57 necro, 53 warrior, and a 58 beastlord ) in akheva ruins a few days ago. He stepped into the zone we were in and we started fighting. It took maybe 30 min and 3 successive fights but ... the wizard got a MB off on the 52 monk. He then succedded in Critting on our 57 necro and then on me. He hit me with a NON MB lure spell for
+3900 hp
the necro was hit by some
+2000 hp
spell so 3 of us dropped in one bloody blast. He also took out the others of our party in 1 to 2 blasts. I was in shock to say the least here. POP is way off for the PvP game to say the least when a wiz can take out an entire group without medding with lil support. And so you know the cleric didn't get off a heal during the fight. As soon as they entered the zone we had one person onthe bard another on the cleric and the other 4 on the wiz. Personnaly during the fight I alsmost killed the cleric and bard once and the wizard almost 3 times but they zoned and survived. And yes we fought across the zones several times during the fights.
On SOW potions, currently I keep 1 to 2 10 shot sow potions on me and 1 10 shot potion in bank. I do this out of neccessity even though its a constant drain on funds at 100pp a 10shot potion. I can do this now at 56 by farming various items with nothing lost but time. When I was lower level ( 40's ) there was no way I could afford to buy sow potions. They where just to expensive to buy when I needed resist gear ( now worthless ) and weapons. In writing the post I tried to remember some of the things I went through when I was pre 50. At 56 yes I can afford it but its still annoying.
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For that matter, why complain about JBoots when a 60 ranger with AM3/EQ can snare you, root you, and plink away until you die?
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When I'm Rooted I'll pumice myself / jboot and go after them. If I'm snared I'll b-line for a zone if its close or Pumice my self if its far and get back to fighting if I still have health. After having to jboot to have some speed to catch a ranger they will just "back up" ( still keeping out of range due to sow ) and bow me down while I try and close the distance so that I can melee them. In this fast paced combat I don't have time to use a extended cast time SOW potion. As soon as you are snared or rooted you will lose sow and there usually isn't time to do anything other than jboot and go after the attacker. If jboot speed was sow speed I could click and be back in the fight. This will make it dangerous to attack me rather than a walk inhte park. Increasing the jboot speed gives me a chance to bring the fight to them instead of having them kite me till I'm dead or have them kite me till I zone. Also note that not all ranger Pks will zone will you because you can melee them when they zone in effectively killing there advantage. As for them plinking away if there are trees or rocks in the area you can take away there bow by making them lose LOS behind and object unfortunantly most of the places that a ranger will stalk are wide open outdoor spaces with no place to make them lost target.
Ironmokey
56 iksar monk
Sullon Zek
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How is it that the problem is a game breaker in one sentence, but then later on you say that having a horse is a "slight evening of the PvP playing field". So which is it? I played on Sullon. I certainly know that Sow is a huge advantage. It seems though that you are conflicted in how serious the issue is.
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In my demented rant trying to give more credibility to one of the reasons for increasing jboot speed I stepped on my own toes.
Forgive me for that one
and please add your own thougths from having played on a red server. Don't get me wrong this is a very very serious issue but I have many many problems with the PvP game and trying to focus on one issue when it crosses over with so many other problems is hard to do some times.
As for horses they can be the same speed or faster while you are outdoors. Once you are indoors horses lose all of there advantages and poof. As you will know PvP fights often take place across zone lines. Well once you zone...
you lose your horse and all of its advantages.
While the SOW'd person will still be SOW'd and will outrun / outmauver you in a heartbeat. So your back to the problem you orginionaly bought the horse to solve. A horse is a patch solution nothing more.
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I know the shaman click sow is fairly easy to get, but you do have to be high level, so without help, none of your sub 50 opponents should have access to this item. Not sure what the druid/ranger/bst insta click sow items are, but unless they're super easy it would seem that this probably isnt' a problem until at least the late 40's early 50's.
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Whether its a problem at 40 or 50 ... they are still the levels leading up to 65 in which you will still be at there mercy. Once again root or snare removes SOW. Leaving you with nothing but jboots if your lucky enough to remove the root / snare. As you also know PvP is fast paced if it isn't a fast click items its a problem to use due to possibly not having the time to wait for a cast.
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Being able to affect an opponents movement is a huge advantage in PVP. Obviously, other than the Treant Staff, all of the other items that would allow you that capability are either very high level or are expendable charged items. No one needs to tell you that running across a wide open outdoor zone, you are going to be in trouble. Anyplace with a wall and you should be immune to bow damage. Against any shaman or druid, look to fight them in tight spaces inside.
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Treant staff is a proc if I remember correctly so if brings you back to the problem of having to
1. "Close the distance"
and the you have to
2. "Hope" it procs and isn't resisted
Its much too IFFY vs a sure thing of a snare and a good bow. As for fighting inside....
lol
LOLOLOL
heh hheee
heh
sorry but I had to do that. I kow exactly where my class excells in PvP. Monks are dungeon crawlers that train and fight like no other in dungeons. As a PvP monk I LUV dungeons its where I get most of my kills.
In reguards to open spaces, sometimes when travelling to various places you have to cross several zones to do it. What should I do? Run across 7 zones instead of 4 so I can avoid a possible encounter? Thats far to time consuming for someone that has become a part time player I also back down from NOONE solo. I've learned when to run when needed "yes" but I try and give a couple hits to remember me by If I have to boogie. Then what If I need an item from and outdoor zone? Say i need to turn in items for the headband quest or better yet I need to hunt the items in SK for the Headband quest for my first robe? Should I not go there?
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Dunno what can be done, but I assure you that there is no way your suggestions would be adopted by Verant. J-Boots are supposed to be inferior to Sow.
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I know what can be done....
you can give feedback and post on boards to voice your concerns. Hell thats what I'm doing. Make some suggestions imagine anything could happen and maybe it will. I mean why can't it happen? Players wanted
SK lifetaps
No hell levels
Gnome SK's
Free Porting
Gnome monks
No Pally nerfs
and they have all come to pass in one form or another. SK's cried for lifetaps for years... ( I played an SK on Rallos prior to Kunark so no taps ) then we got them. Hell levels have been droped post 50 in the last few months. With PoP;s introduction we don't I need a tele from a wiz ( or druid for that matter ) ? Those classes lost there monopoly of porting and an easy money maker overnight. Those classes are of no use to me in that respect now and I can save my plat for items instead of doling it out for ports. Add in Gnome monks or monks that have an enchanter illusion cast on them to look like gnome monks for a short time ( PoP AA I believe ) and finally the pallys somehow got Verant to NOT NERF THERE CLASS. Pitty we couldn't organize enough to do the same thing. My point here is why isn't something similar possible? What they have shown us it that with enough feedback anything is possible.
I learned long ago that Verant doesn't give a rats arse about the PvP game so I didnt' try to fight what I "thought" would never change. Well times are changing and things have been improving here and there so lets see if we can bring it to there attention to this problem and see if we can get somehting done about it.
My thoughts, what do you think?
Ironmokey
56 iksar monk
Sullon Zek
</p>
this really isnt the section to put this into, needs to be moved to general.
<div style="text-align:center">Sionistic Triplefist (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=139385)
58 Monk
Veeshan</div></p>
Wubao
10-26-2002, 06:10 PM
"why complain about JBoots when a 60 ranger with AM3/EQ can snare you, root you, and plink away until you die?"
Snared monk slowly crawls his way over to a wall after Ranger snares him and pops trueshot. Somewhere along the way the monk pops mend to stay alive.
Monk feigns into wall and snickers to himself.
:P
Wu
</p>
Yes true shot is very nasty and quite unbalencing for the PvP game but if your snared in and open zone its rare that they will tage you near a zone or by a zone wall. The smart one will wait till your out in the open and then attack.
TO THE MODERATOR
- If this should be in the genearl chat please move it there if possible.
Ironmokey
56 Iksar monk
Sullon Zek
</p>
Wubao
10-27-2002, 06:34 PM
I know the good rangers will use it when they can abuse it.
That's what makes them good rangers.
Just be a smart monk is all.
The z-axis really drives rangers batty. There will be times you get totally owned by trueshot being popped.
There will be times where you'll have them at the disadvantage.
Is just a game. Sometimes you own. Sometimes you get owned.
-Wu
</p>
Sorry, this game isn't about Balance. Never was. You'd have valid points if the changes were to be placed on red servers only. Do I wish for Verant to spend resources honing an area of the game they never intended? No. I'd rather have real issues addressed, content improved, zones etc.
Items "have" been changed due to your servers and I'm not real comfortable with that, just being honest. I do wish the game was fair for you guys but not at my expense. Verants idea of balancing the classes effects too many other players/encounters to make sense for them and us.
You bought the wrong game is what it boils down to.
<div style="text-align:center">
http://home.attbi.com/~neverman/pictures/ssyn.jpg (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=6373)</div>
</p>
Many thanks for the
I don't care about your game lets address "my" issues post. Very thought full of you. I pay monthly fees also and have been a long term subscriber 3 years running why shouldn't my concerns be addressed? Now lets think now who did the resist change affect most?
red server players
With the loss of Defensive ability who will be affected most?
red server monks
Everytime monks are nerfed we all feel it but red server player are hit harder that the rest. Yes our game is different and more tend to play blue but thats no reason to ignore us.
Also think when was the last time you saw "ANY" posts on red server conditions? They happen far to infequently mainly due to red players learning early on that you will most likey get "NO" response to your problems / questions. The only reason I'm here to post is that they have been listening to some idiot thats changed "my" game play and has made a years pursuit of gear worthless.
So if you have nothing to say constuctive or supportive please don't hesitate to "NOT" relpy to a post asking for help.
Ironmokey
56 Iksar Monk
Sullon Zek
Squigge Dah'Fizzebashur
54 Troll SK
Rallos Zek
</p>
Quote by Ironmonkey:
------------------------------------------------------------
He hit me with a NON MB lure spell for
+3900 hp
------------------------------------------------------------
There is no lure spell for wizards that can crit for 3900. In fact, there is only 2 spells that can reach that in pvp and they are level 65. Do you find it strange to be defeated by someone 9 levels higher then you?
</p>
The guy was level 61. He was not anon and his level was easy to see ( Grunter , Sullon Zek ). The Wizard was even con ( IE within 5 levels ) and I lost exp ( a full blue ) from being nailed with his spell ( only happens when even con ). Back to the point though,
1st person got MB
2nd was hit by a +2000dd
then I got nailed for
+3900.
by a 61 wiz. I haven't a clue how he did it all I know is we all dropped and where nuked with +2000k spells and 3 people all dropped in under 5 min. I didn't see a crit message so I only assumed it was a lure due them being the popular mode of blasting ( fast cast and low resist ) on Sullon. Either way +60 wizards are ungodly powerful in PvP now.
Ironmokey
56 Iksar Monk
Sullon Zek
</p>
The only way a level 61 wizard will do 3900 damage in pvp is with mana burn. There used to be a bug that was abused on Sullon with reseting zones and skill timers but it was reported as fixed in a patch message. If its still going on then I suggest you bug report it and petition the abusers.
Else the story sounds fairly fictional as max non-crit pvp damage for a level 61 wizard is in the area of 1700 and this isnt with a lure, but with Garrisons Superior Sundering from the Emperor and with focus item from Vex Thal or PoP. Max crit with the same setup would be less then 3100. Max crit with a PoP lure with VT/PoP focus is less then 1600.
</p>
it may sound ficational to you.
but the 1 blue bubble exp lost added onto the 2 hour long CR was an added bonus I had in this encounter making it too bloody real for me.
If you doubt the story log onto Sullon and chat with
Ironbear ( 52 monk )
Reaverx ( +57 necro - name might be off a bit )
Turns ( 58 beast lord )
Pwetti ( 53 warrior)
Geko ( 60 shamen - I think it was geko the shame there that night )
or myself ( 56 monk )
The shit wasn't pretty and the Wiz that nailed us with the support of a bard and cleric was Grunter ( a lil gnome bastard ). I later sent him a tell asking how he did it and all he replied was =). Gotta hate that lil bastard. Ask Reave about his +2000 nuke. After that I followed Grunter through a zone and got nailed for the +3900. I don't assume to know how the hell it was done I just know that I and my party where burned baddly by it and that the wiz did a one shot one kill on 3 of us. The rest died which they told me over group but no clue whether it was several casts or one on them as well.
Ironmokey
56 Iksar Monk
Sullon Zek
</p>
Ironmonkey, the problem is that what you are talking about cant be done without some kind of cheat. Of course minor details could be wrong wich would make it possible. Like if the first guy wasnt hit with manaburn, but that was used on you later, someone else hit you with manaburn etc. I will deffinitly not put in any work to find out the details of an encounter I wasnt myself involved with. If you want this story to get some more realism, then you should try and figure out what actualy did happen. Until then its as likely as a story of a monk hitting people for 2000 or more every time during a long battle.
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Grunter has sunstrike, thats the only thing that could even crit close to what your refering too, no neutrals have EER or above, and the best lure is Lure of thunder, and every 61 wiz has that, which is only about 700 in pvp
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Wubao
10-28-2002, 09:20 PM
"I do wish the game was fair for you guys but not at my expense. Verants idea of balancing the classes effects too many other players/encounters to make sense for them and us. "
Why not just make the red servers more like stormhammer in their makeup/design/whatever?
As in ... you CAN have different itemization and different rules there, just like SH has different rules/items/etc.?
Just a thought. Might help SoE balance the PvPers a little better against their actual environment and not the blue environment the rest of us play in.
-Wu
Who like the rest of the smurfs is BLUE
</p>
It either that lil wiz is super critting or there's some game mechanics that need looking at. Within the span of about 2 min I saw the necro do down with a +2000 dd I chased the wiz zoned and was on him and got tagged for +3900 with a warrior and myself pounding on him. The first monk dropped so fast I assumed it was a dd I talked with Ironbear and he was hit with
2 spells that took his +1600 hp of life
He didn't give me the exact amounts but it was 2 spells and he droped fast as for the +2000 and the +3900 maybe the mb was saved for me while the necro caught a crit in the face? I haven't had a chance to talk to the rest of the group yet but they where all dropped by the same wiz, it was bloody sick I tell yeah.
Exp death happens I'd just like a fighting chance vs an even con.
Ironmokey
56 Iksar Monk
Sullon Zek
To lethdar ... damnit man ... your 65 now? How am I supposed to catch up to you and beat yeah down now? Stop with the leveling and AA aye... give me a year and I'll catch yeah aye.
</p>
Giving melees infinite SoW would be such a cop-out. You make it sound like anyone who has SoW is practically invulnerable. Timing pumice dispells and playing range games can easily peel off many of their buffs. People have a tendency to fear getting dispelled, especially if you make it clear that you've got a shitload of pumice and are quite willing to use it.
-spinfusor, formerly of SZ, now of IRC
</p>
how is it possible to crit for 3900 with a lure?
1000 X 1.66(innate crit) X 2(AA crit?) X 1.2(focus item) net you 4000, then 1/3 PVP penalty make it ~2700
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