Is it just my server or

[Lenardo]

my guild has noticed this as well



the alliance pre BG's - for the most part- never needed to use tactics or strategize to win since they typically outnumbered the horde and won by "Zerg" - more people there.



the horde on the other had during this same time span has learned the semblance of tactics and strategy just to compete with the alliance "zerg"



now the fights are Equal numbers.



the team with the best tactics/strat will win -pretty much every time.



oh and pickup BG raids suck esp in the warsong one.



the alliance people are learning the tactics NOW that the horde learned a few months ago.



it is also a matter of who you are with. a strong leader type will invariably do better with the same group of people than that same group without one.- again tactics and strat.



i won my AV BG last nite due to 2-3 players pushing the rest of the players to keep moving forward...




Brother Lenardo Draconis

65th Transcendant of the Celestial Fists

The First Seal-The Nameless

Lenardo

60th Tauren Shaman - The First Seal Blackhand

Magelo ('http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=329805')</p>

[Kathrea]

Do alliance really suck at PvP across the board?



I've played in approximately 10 WSG as my alliance priest, and every single one was lost. There were only two out of those where we came close to winning, and yet by the end they became sloppy and lost anyway.



What is it? I didn't think the difference was that great, but it seems the moment you zone in and get the teams up, every single person on offense thinks there a cowboy and can solo the flag. EVERY SINGLE TIME! Ok so I'm venting, but its disgusting. I have a horde character as well, but right now I wanted to focus on my priest.



Its really sad. Is everyone else having this issue?


</p>

[Swiftfisted]

On Suramar (PVE Server), this is especially true.



I've been playing my 35 horde priest and I haven't lost in a battleground yet.



Some of my observations are as follows:



90% of the alliance at my level that have PVP rank names (IE Scout) are terrible. One on one, they have no idea what to do. It's quite obvious that they tagged along in raids to TM zergs to get some combo points.



Another 60% of the alliance have never really competed head to head in a PVP atmosphere. Alot of them run around in the middle of warsong without any backup, and just don't have a general sense of enemy combatants around them.



I have yet to see any type of organization what so ever. They attack in groups of 2 or 3, and just charge head on. Their defense consists of 2 or 3 guys sitting around the flag.



The other 4-6 are running around in the middle scattered or waiting for a rez.



Most are just terrible at PVP in general. They don't know what targets to kill first, just head straight on into the first guy they see, often passing up a 35 cloth wearer for the 40 warrior in the front.



I agree with len though, strategically, they are where horde was when the massive pvp zerging started to occur. Give em a few months to catch up...or heh maybe they're all just dumb<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D">





ps. Nothing gives me more satisfaction than to kill a paladin that waits til he has 20% health left before starting a heal..and then I silence him <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/devil.gif ALT=":evil">


<hr />



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/swiftfisted/sig1.jpg</p>

[The Lionfist]

So far to me, the military concept of "force" appears to be the biggest problem.



Ignoring all strats, tactics, balance, just plain having more people clustered together during skirmishes equates to more small victories, and thus overall victory.



Horde seem to stay in sub-groups and Alliance appear to try to solo more, or just go into small encounters outnumbered.



People who have never PvP'd start to think they are powerful and that an add isnt a big deal like it is in PVE, and TOTALLY miss that 2 on 1 is almnost always a lose.


<div style="text-align:center">http://home.woh.rr.com/ravensign/rorduruk.jpg</div></p>

I don't think the alliance zerg thing you mentioned has anything to do with it. Sure, the alliance always outnumbered the horde. At least on my server though, this didn't mean the horde had to learn tactics, it meant they had to learn how to hide behind their 5 million spawned guards at TM. Which they did, ALL the damn time.



However, I do believe alliance in general are less serious gamers. There are people on both sides who know mmorpgs, and know warcraft, and they would have a pretty good chance of joining either alliance or horde. However, I know there are a lot of less serious gamers, some who have never played warcraft OR another mmorpg, and like 90% of those people will choose to be alliance.



So if you took the top 40 alliance players and top 40 horde players and stuck em in Alterac together, I think it would be a very good fight. However, when you throw in 40 random alliance and 40 random horde, you tend to get a lot more riffraff on the alliance side than on horde.



Not sure how it's going on most servers, but for the last 2 nights Alterac has been pretty much a constant deadlock on my server. Last night both factions spawned their raid boss within 30 seconds of one another, and then both managed to die within 30 seconds of each other too. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin">



Edit: Just wanted to add, I'm a priest and fear bomb FTW! God those are so fun, even when they're not all that effective <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)">


Redskye Heavenfire (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=157111)

67 Monk

Cohort Chalybeius

Cazic-Thule server

Retired</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p201.ezboard.com/bmonklybusiness43508.showUserPublicProfile?gid=red skye@monklybusiness43508>Redskye</A> at: 6/9/05 1:03 pm

I think i've lost 2 bg.



The first one was when we had one warrior, one hunter, one druid, and 5 cloth classes (i think 1 priest, 1 warlock, and 3 mages) vs 2 warriors 2 paladins 3 rogues 2 priests and a hunter.



The warriors, paladins, and hunter all had arcanite reapers. gg, nothing you can really do.



The second had two paladins/two priests/a druid and there was no way for us to kill them.



There was also a lot of bad organization in those fights because shamans like to solo and duo.



Paladins are still a big alliance advantage simply because they can sit there and heal themselves while under attack. Yeah, stuns and all interrupt it, but they're wearing plate, and they've got other people healing them too.



They can also dispell negative shit off them. Which needs to be nerfed, hardcore, from priests and shamans too. Dispell, purge, and cleanse are way too strong in pvp.



But yeah, since i've done about 12-15 bg, losing two (especially with some really dumb people on my teams, and sadly, i'm not 60... I still contribute -a lot- being a druid, but if I were 60...), alliance sucks more.


Sex junkie, lookin' for a dealer

You can play the leper, girl, and I'll play the healer

</p>

yea on my server alliance has won very very few av battlegrounds



seriously probably like 3


</p>

[Setsoru]

I don't PvP.



I got so burned out playing a Hibernia Nightshade in DAOC, experiencing first hand what a "zerg" truly is (Albion = Alliance x 3, Hibernia = Horde/1.5 to give you a comparison of truly overwhelming odds in DAOC PvP). Then having my class nerfed into near uselessness; and PvP doesn't motivate me any longer.



I have 33 kills. All in TM/SS skirmishes, all solo. That was my one, single night of PvP action, when I was bored enough to do it.



But I know for a fact there are some <span style="text-decoration:underline">very</span> good PvPers on the Alliance side from DAOC that just don't PvP. My WoW guild is a perfect example. We were a top 5 Hib PvP guild on our DAOC server, with 1/4, or less, of the members of the other guilds in our alliance. But we don't PvP in WoW. And I know of other outstanding DAOC folks who don't PvP for various reasons.



So if I were to generalize, I'd say most of the hard-core PvPers went Horde. I know many from DAOC who play Horde, for exactly that reason. I'd say the more casual PvPers, or the non-interested PvPers (like myself) went Alliance. And there are idiots on both sides of the line.



So far, I don't think you're seeing the true potential from Alliance players. TM/SS was so uninspiring that (I'm generalizing here) many of us in the "don't want to" camp, saw no reason to change our minds. I know my guild fits this profile exactly.



When more try the BGs, if its fun, some of that old PvP flame may be rekindled. And you'll begin to see a very big change in the quality of the opponents you're encountering.



But if the ATV BG continues to be a 5-10 hour marathon.... /shrug.


<span style="color:maroon;"> Setsoru (http://wow.allakhazam.com/profile.html?29986)</span> - 60 Rogue



<span style="color:black;">R.I.P.</span>

Setsoru Rakurai (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=76490) 65 Monk Abandoned</p>

[imalwayshungry]

I think its group-makeup dependent to a large extent. I won a WSG last night in 10mins flat (was watching my poison timer).


<div style="text-align:center"><span style="color:black;font-family:verdana;font-size:xx-small;"> Sensei Halabut (retired) (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=371532)</span></div><div style="text-align:center"><span style="color:black face verdana;font-size:xx-small;">"Luck favors the prepared"</span></div></p>

[Arlos]

One of the biggest reasons why Alliance has a problem in BGs is due to the population imbalance. For horde, it's pretty fast to get a preset team into a BG, since there's rarely that much waiting, since populations are like 2 or 3 to 1.



Alliance, if you want a preset group, you wait about 3x as long as if you go solo. Of course, if you go solo, you're not going to be able to communicate with anyone on Vent/TS, and you're likely to get paired with some real, uh, winners.



That said, having tried a few pickups, I am firmly convinced that much of the alliance population fits into one of 3 categories: Tweedle Dumb, Tweedle Dumber, and Tweedle Fucking Retarded.






-Arlos the Disciple(retired)
Legacy of Steel (http://www.legacyofsteel.net)
Paladin, Stormrage server

http://www.legacyofsteel.net/images/sigs/arlos.jpg</p>

I play horde on Malygos and I can tell you that for the most part, Alliance can't seem to stay organized. Most of the time, the alliance will split off and try to take back GY's and what not and never focus on the main battle. I've seen a few alliance "strokes of genius", where they seem to have things well in control to simply just think they can over power everything because, up to this point, they think they have superior numbers or something. Every Alterac trip I've made, it goes something like this...and it seems to repeat...



Alliance summons the (don't remember the name, just kill it...) giant. Horde gets a little over burdened and it kills everyone a few times. Horde loses the first GY on the horde side, horde gets organized and takes the GY back, then everyone, and I do mean everyone focuses on the giant. We kill the giant, then, if he's there, korrak. Then without fail, the alliance loses all cohesion. Horde summons ice giant, 30-60 minutes later, we're on Alliances bridge and that's where the battle stays for the rest of the night.



This repeats nightly since BG's opened. Now, of course, I don't play every waking hour and I'm sure I've missed important alliance victories, but when I play, this scenerio seems to be a deja vu event. I wondered if our giant is superior to the alliances giant, but it really comes down to how organized we've stayed and we don't let the giant push further than the first GY. We don't get wrapped up on HK's when the alliance giant is up, we focus on him entirely and alliance just doesn't seem to grasp this, at all.



Our rocky friend, every time he's been up when I'm playing always gets to the alliance strong hold. I'm a bit biased here, but that bridge is such a fucking bottle neck that it's hard to progress past it, the horde seldomly gets past the two towers on the N and S of that bridge, but we can hold that bridge, at least until 3-4am CST when I log off because we've been stuck there for 4 hours straight.



In my opinion, alliance seems to be focused entirely on HK's, where as the horde seems to be more focused on winning the entire BG. Now, CTV seems to be a random free-for-all, and I've only done a couple of those, but alliance still seems to be focused on racking up HK's as opposed to winning.


</p>

[PlaneOfSolinar]

This is the truth. I've been on almost 10 av bg's so far and alliance has never won. I play late at night and they usually outnumber horde almost 2:1 and still cant seem to pull one out.



Last night we made it to the horde base in under 45 minutes and didnt advance pass the first tower leading to the 2 bunkers. Everyone decides they want to run around doing quests, turning in stuff that dont help at this point, sit around and chit chat like this is irc. No one attacks together as a group and no one listens.



I'm seriously beginning to think alliance on my server just dont want to win, just farm hk's.


</p>

Long story that probably isn't as interesting if you weren't there <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":p">



I will say right now that they need bigger time-based honor bonuses for long matches, and you should get bonus honor for staying alive.



I had a four hour long warsong battleground yesterday that was completely insane. There were some of us on the horde side that were good, and there were some on the alliance side that at least had a tactic, even if it was all they did (fear bomb with priest, piercing howl with warrior, mage grabs flag and runs.)



Occasionally a 55 rogue with balls a wee bit too big for his britches would grab it and dash during the confusion, too. When he wasn't trying to dash out with the flag, he was attacking me. I guess because I'm a 58 druid he thought he had a chance to kill me even when I had 2-4 teammates around. I just shifted into bear, making myself the highest AC person in the match since everyone uses 2h weapons in pvp, and laughed at him. One time he caught me in mid field without mana in caster form. I had just enough to pop barkskin and smash him in the face with my hammer. I warstomped, and 3 horde nukes from behind ripped through him. I barely had enough time to /bye his corpse as it slid across the ground (i love the sliding corpse bug.)



I think that's how they scored the first two points, mage and rogue. And it happened pretty early on. I was playing defense mostly, covering point as a mobile radar station since we didn't have a hunter. I helped us break up a lot of attacks as they started. And with bearform and swiftshifting I was able to greatly impede/stop many flag cap attempts. I can't kill anyone, but i can slow 'em down.



And then someone on our side scored, putting us back in the game.



And then the stalemate occurred.



We had their flag hidden, they had our flag defended by 8 people. Watching their riders crisscross our base trying to find our hidden flagbearer was great.



Finally, we got our flag back. GO, GO, GO, DELIVER THE -



shit. Flag taken. Flagbearer dead.



Luckily I had the foresight to hide at the enemy's flag since I'm a druid. I grabbed it, and hit bearform. Frost trap, knew it was coming. Aimed shot, switch to cat, dashed, immune to the followup concussion shot.



Had 3 or 4 folks on me as I blew past their graveyard, shifting out of cat to travel due to being snared by something, potioning and healing during the shift. Blasted down the west side heading towards our ramp spamming the minimap trying to get people to help. No one nearby. I'm at 400hp and dotted



Suddenly, a shaman appears in the distance! oH THANK GOD!



300hp.



he runs past me, dismounts, and starts meleeing one of the 4 alliance



200hp



dead, flag returned



Lenardo, why do the people who play your class suck so bad?



They grabbed our flag again. We grab their flag again. An orc warrior brings it back to base. After fighting off a couple of attacks, we head to the roof. It's a 60 priest from my guild, the 60 warrior, and of course me, the 'easy target' 58 druid. The enemy offense is a 60 paladin, 60 hunter, and 60 warrior. Eventually they discover that we moved to the roof, and it's on.



It seems that everyone likes to attack me due to my level. Even though at the time i had 5500hp and over 50% mitigation even to lvl60s. Somehow we fought them off.



I took up the flag myself, realizing that with track human I could more nimbly avoid their assaults.



And an assault of 5 came for the roof. At the last minute, i dropped down, switched to bear, and ran out of the base as our team hit them from behind on the roof, and engaged those who dropped down near the graveyard.



I hid where we'd hidden the warrior earlier. Unfortunately I'd been hunter marked and when i saw the hunter on track on their next push, I had to run out in fear that they'd find our spot. Again we battled at the graveyard. But something different happened. Our offense recovered the flag!



Snared and being beaten on and shot by 4 people, I lumbered over to the flag and scored for our team for the first time in over 2 hours.



The game was tied now, 2 to 2.



I grabbed their flag again shortly after, only upon charging up our base's main tunnel, found 8 alliance in our flag room. I didn't survive that time. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":p">



But once again, I prowled into their base up top, watching as the warrior who had the flag earlier fruitlessly suicided into their defense to grab the flag. Angrily I told him 'not to do that shit, fear bomb and let someone else get it instead of just giving them CP'



As I arrived in their room, I saw one of their defenders chain /laughing at his corpse.



And of the 4 there, 3 left, except for the stealthed lvl60 rogue.



I made my break. Grabbed the flag, hit barkskin. Immediately they were on me. Switched to bear. Two warriors, the rogue, and hunter. Stab, stab, shoot.



4000hp



3000hp



2000hp



deshift, instant heal and superior potion (and lag didn't screw it up for once)



I wasn't even out of their flag room yet. I knew I was going to die, but by god, I wanted to make them work for it.



1000hp



500



3500



What?



From the side tunnel came another druid from the horde, escorted by the warrior. BAM, fear!



I was back to full, but dropping rapidly again as soon as the fear ended. But the boots of speed... were still there. I hit them. Wingclip rooted. Swiftshift. Bears look hilarious running at super speeds. I warped down their tunnel like dale earnhart, jumping over the paladin who didn't know what the fuck.



Emerging from their base, i dropped to cat and hit dash, putting me out of range of the warriors' charge as they came up behind me. Switching to travel in mid field, I see one of two things a druid dreads. Their mage.



Frostbolt.



Switched to bear at the entrance to my base and they're on me. 3000, 2000, 1000... and from the shadows up the tunnel comes the priest from my guild, and a guildy shaman as well. I must have looked like a warrior tanking rallos zek with the way my hp were spiking up and down. I spent over 5000 mana shapeshifting on that run (had to innervate halfway up the tunnel) to break snares.



Upon reaching our flag room, there's 5 alliance trying to kill me. And that 55 rogue grabs the flag again. I feral charge him. We smash him to pieces. Again, snared, dotted, shot, stabbed, bleeding, burning, and frozen, my bear ass leaps on our flag.



VICTORY.



After we arrive back in the barrens, the priest, shaman, and druid all tell me they spent two manabars each keeping me alive <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":p">



Course, the other team could have been better. The paladin could have HoJ'd me on my way out, someone else could have grabbed our flag. The hunter could have grabbed the boots of speed. But they didn't, and that's what counts. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)">



I decided I needed a break. My priest guildmate went back in and got a win in about 90 seconds. Heh.



Cat form and bear form are so insanely useful in warsong.


Sex junkie, lookin' for a dealer

You can play the leper, girl, and I'll play the healer

</p>

[The Yanger]

We don't even have an alterac map running on my server half the time, and the patch hasn't been out a week. 3 to 1 alliance to horde sucks donkey balls. Even the horde stopped caring, Warsong gulch is the only place with any action.


http://www1.iswest.com/theyanger/wowsig.gif (http://www.wowrankings.com/viewb.htm?name=Yang&s_id=38)

www.ShadowedFates.net (http://www.shadowedfates.net)</p>

[DzenMercedMuir]

Something needs to be done about population balance issues.




<big>
Szi (http://www.thottbot.com/index.cgi?p=Szi.Doomhammer) --
Dzen (http://www.thottbot.com/index.cgi?p=Dzen.Doomhammer)


</big>



Heretics on Doomhammer (WOW) (http://p203.ezboard.com/bwowhota42816)

Dzen - (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=389475)
EQI - Heretics of the Apocalypse (http://www.hota-torv.com)
</p>

[The Yanger]

Bleh, EZboard trying to fix itself rolled my sig back to my old crappy one wtf!


http://www1.iswest.com/theyanger/yangsig copy.jpg (http://www.wowrankings.com/viewb.htm?name=Yang&s_id=38)

www.ShadowedFates.net (http://www.shadowedfates.net)</p>

No long story needed but, I enter a AV BG, the horde are literally at their base, the alliance owns ALL GY's several mines and bunkers.



I do my part, fear bombing and making sure mages who think they are heroes get stunned and pawned.



Then the numbers even out on our side. And something interesting happens. The horde start rolling. We take back our nearest graveyard. People stream out of the base in a massive charge and alliance guys fall left and right.



Eventually I and 4 others take a mine, then another GY goes down.

The true turning point, was when a raiding party of 14 or so come over to summon the ROCKGOD. The alliance pathetically sends over a few guys *one at a time* and we pissed off angry as heck mothah's dispatch them with ease.



Just seconds before their true force comes to wipe us out, the ROCKGOD of DOOM is summoned and 30 horde go on a rampage!

During the melee, the alliance try to take out the hilltop GY nearby Korrak and can't quite do it.

Amist the chaos, me and a raid party desperately try to kill Korrak, while a seperate force holds off the alliance. Anyway after much screwups, and deaths we eventually kill Korrak! Ice Barbed Spear here I come!



The alliance take the GY, but ALL the horde are one once again! We then proceed to make alliance everywhere cry.



Fighting off sleep deprivation we eventually get up to one of their GY's nearby base. However at 3:30AM I am too tired to continue and decide to sleep.



A proud moment had by all and yet another story where the hapless alliance experience cold defeat.



Grievous 59 Warrior

Zul'Jin

Silvermana






</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p201.ezboard.com/bmonklybusiness43508.showUserPublicProfile?gid=bro therdavid>Brother David</A> at: 6/13/05 4:38 am