Further insulted........... [Archive] - Monkly Business Forums

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10-26-2002, 06:45 PM

Here is another Official comment from Rich Waters on the Druid/Ranger Harmony change.

I've been following the threads here and on the Ranger's Glade about Harmony today and wanted to give some more information on the reasoning behind the change.

Harmony is the druid and ranger version of the lull line of spells. Several classes get these types of spells, with enchanters, bards, and clerics being the best at it overall. Lulls work by lowering the range at which monsters will attack you, allowing you to pull a single monster out of a group by lulling it's companions.

Traditionally, most lull spells haven't really worked very well. Lull had a high resist rate and wasn't very reliable. We've recently looked at lulls and improved the way they work to make them more useful to players. You should find that the lull line of spells works more often than it did, though it will still fail some of the time.

Harmony was unique in that when you cast it on an NPC, it never failed. This essentially means that Harmony could be used for risk-free pulling every time. All other lull spells have a resist check, allowing a monster to not be affected by them. The fact that Harmony can't be resisted made it the very best of the lull spells - which is an odd thing to happen to a level 5 spell.

We've had the ability for awhile now to make it so certain monsters were totally immune to being lulled. This is especially common in higher level outdoor zones such as Cazic-Thule, since Harmony would take any challenge out of splitting groups of monsters. Having a such powerful game dynamic with no risk of failure made these encounters too easy, so we were forced to make many monsters totally lull immune to compensate. With this change to Harmony, we'll now be able to remove the lull immunity from many monsters, and turn this ability into a useful spell line that gives great benefits, but with some risk that your spell may be resisted.

This week, we'll be adding an upgrade to Harmony that works on higher level monsters. We'll also be removing the lull immunity from many higher level monsters in outdoor zones, to accommodate the new spell. The higher level version of Harmony will have some chance of being resisted, but will be a fairly reliable way to split up groups of outdoor monsters. We do want this spell line to be a useful tool for you at all levels, but as with all other forms of crowd control there needs to be some chance that it won't always work. Druids and rangers should get a excellent outdoor lull, but a level 5 spell probably shouldn't be the best it ever gets.

- Rich

It can be found here: boards.stratics.com/php-b...o=0&fpart= (http://boards.stratics.com/php-bin/eq/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=eqwestwood&Number=746472&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=)

Is there any chance we can trade Absor for Rich since Absor just ignores us all together?

Kokuei Akujin

10-26-2002, 07:22 PM

Actually thats a nerf.

Previously mobs were designed so they couldnt be lulled so that harmony wasnt used to pull them single. Now they can be lulled but harmony can be resisted by any mob.

Its the "resisted by any mob" bit that indicates the nerf.

10-26-2002, 07:34 PM

I'm not denying the nerf I am pointing out that unlike Absor Rich takes the time to comment to the community and atleast explain himself. Absor has yet to say anything other then "I see you typing here" no comment or clarification from Absor our customer "disservice" representative.

Kokuei Akujin

10-26-2002, 08:06 PM

At this point, the chance that either will post here is low. They missed the window. If they had posted early, as they did in the cases of both Paladins/Slay Undead and Druids/Rangers/Harmony, then we might have the possibility for useful discussion.

If they came here now, after this long a period, the number of posts actually worth reading would be crushed under the weight of posts exclaiming "Its about damn time!" and "Yay! a post, now give me exact numbers!"

The question is.. a large number of people on this board feel that the nerf should be retracted because it "missed the mark" of the stated intent.. how would those people react if Absor or Rich came in and said, "The message in the patch wasn't exactly spot on. But we have observed the change in action on the live servers and are happy with the results."

I personally agree with the stated intent of the change, monks shouldn't be tanking for long periods of time, they should be stop-gap tanks to hold a mob while it is either mezzed, or a proper tank can get on then feign to drop agro. That said, I do think they may have gone a bit overboard with the change. It was in the right direction, but a bit too far in my opinion.

As for all the people I see exclaiming that they want explanations or clarifications.. taking what Verant has said, and what the monks here have parsed and shown, you have an explanation, and you have clarification. Just because you don't like the answer, doesn't make it any less the answer.

-Ish (ishiro@probablynot.com)
Guardians of Order (http://pub1.ezboard.com/bguardiansofordereciserver) - nobody's heroes (http://pub31.ezboard.com/bnobodysheroes)
[ Ishiro Takagi - 56 Human Monk ] (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=27412) / [ Orihsi Takagi - 52 Human Druid ] (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=86021) / [ Kirrin Takagi - 27 Human Rogue ] / [ Flibbertigibbet Tebbigitrebbilf - 26 Gnome Shadow Knight ] (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=340940) / [ Jhaer Buegren - 16 Troll Shaman ] (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=365350) / [ Satchel Takagi - 13 Human Bard ] / [ Mharc Sihnger - 12 Vah Shir Beastlord ] (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=365364) / [ Ptolen - 8 High Elf Enchanter ]

Tiane

10-26-2002, 08:06 PM

Well, considering that they nerfed harmony (and posted that) last week, and still have yet to add in the new, improved, resistable one, I'd say that's pretty par for the course...

Tia

10-26-2002, 08:42 PM

I have a suspicion that they have a lead designer, and I know they have a spell guy, and we all know they have a PR guy, but I can't recall a post from the "melee" guy. That could help explain why we got no response, and even why PoP is pretty much a non event for the pure melee's.

Shinrai, Monk of the Lost Circle.

A proud member of Southern Armada

10-27-2002, 10:18 AM

Tiane,

There is a level 29 harmony spell in PoK.

-Ish (ishiro@probablynot.com)
Guardians of Order (http://pub1.ezboard.com/bguardiansofordereciserver) - nobody's heroes (http://pub31.ezboard.com/bnobodysheroes)
[ Ishiro Takagi - 56 Human Monk ] (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=27412) / [ Orihsi Takagi - 52 Human Druid ] (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=86021) / [ Kirrin Takagi - 27 Human Rogue ] / [ Flibbertigibbet Tebbigitrebbilf - 26 Gnome Shadow Knight ] (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=340940) / [ Jhaer Buegren - 16 Troll Shaman ] (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=365350) / [ Satchel Takagi - 13 Human Bard ] / [ Mharc Sihnger - 12 Vah Shir Beastlord ] (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=365364) / [ Ptolen - 8 High Elf Enchanter ]

10-27-2002, 11:23 AM

i started off my eq time as a ranger and i almost never used harmony because you couldn't relaible tell if you harmonied all the mobs you were pulling . nerf=non-issue to this part time ranger

Damudge Deeler

10-27-2002, 12:36 PM

HArmony did not work everytime for me. Also, it has a limited duration. Often, by the time you got up to your intended target, the spell had worn off, and you would not get a single pull.

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10-27-2002, 01:56 PM

.. and watched it hit, you could always tell precisely which mobs have been successfully harmonied and which have not. 'Course, sometimes due to proximities or pathing during the pull, you might get more than a single, too. The lull series just severely reduces the frenzy radius, it doesn't nerf creatures into complete quiescence.

I haven't tried it with my druid since the nerf, though. I don't know what effect the nerf had on existing harmony or how well the new harmony works.

Kydaan

10-27-2002, 02:51 PM

Lull and Harmony did exactly the same thing to the mobs they connect with. They reduced the mob's frenzy and reaction radius to 15 units. The differences were that Harmony is outdoor only, AoE and unresistable while Lull can be used anywhere, is single target and resists against magic.

Lull is 10 mana. The new Harmony spell, which is basically just an outdoor only Lull, is 100. The new Harmony spell was simply introduced because Druids and Rangers complained loudly and they decided to come up with something quickly at that point to try and apease the masses. The new Harmony spell is even more useless than Lull and everything that is coming out of Verant on this matter is utter BS.

Take your pick, be ignored or be lied to.

- Kydaan.

10-27-2002, 03:45 PM

"since Harmony would take any challenge out of splitting groups of monsters."

Verant said that monks pulling and splitting was not part of the vison, or wasnt intended, or is verant coming around and saying it's "ok".

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10-27-2002, 11:56 PM

Ishiro,

Where is the new Harmony spell in PoK? I have searched all over and so has many druids. If you could give a more specific location of where it is, that would be appreciated.

I have seen that Casters Realm has it posted being sold in PoK, but like I said, no-one has found it yet.

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spiritual thistlethorne

10-28-2002, 12:29 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> Tiane,

There is a level 29 harmony spell in PoK<hr></blockquote>

I would love to also know where you have seen this spell in Planes of Knowledge <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> As a team, EQDruids has checked every single spell vendor in the Library, and seen no sign of the spell.

I'm not saying it isn't there, I'm asking for help finding the thing!! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

 

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10-28-2002, 12:54 AM

I spoke too soon I guess.. the spell has been created, and its supposed to be on a vender... however, just like the new SK spells that were supposed to be in Echo Caverns it will probably take another patch or two for them to actually put the spell on the vender.

*shrug* Point is, it'll be there in pretty short order.

-Ish (ishiro@probablynot.com)
Guardians of Order (http://pub1.ezboard.com/bguardiansofordereciserver) - nobody's heroes (http://pub31.ezboard.com/bnobodysheroes)
[ Ishiro Takagi - 56 Human Monk ] (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=27412) / [ Orihsi Takagi - 52 Human Druid ] (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=86021) / [ Kirrin Takagi - 27 Human Rogue ] / [ Flibbertigibbet Tebbigitrebbilf - 26 Gnome Shadow Knight ] (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=340940) / [ Jhaer Buegren - 16 Troll Shaman ] (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=365350) / [ Satchel Takagi - 13 Human Bard ] / [ Mharc Sihnger - 12 Vah Shir Beastlord ] (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=365364) / [ Ptolen - 8 High Elf Enchanter ]

Kydaan

10-28-2002, 03:49 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>*shrug* Point is, it'll be there in pretty short order.<hr></blockquote>And it will still be absolutly useless.

spiritual thistlethorne

10-28-2002, 01:55 PM

It won't be useless. It will mean that you might have to change your tactics a bit is all.

But don't start worrying about the usefullness of the spell until we actually see it <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> THEN we can tear it apart <laugh>

 

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10-28-2002, 03:02 PM

Isnt this a MONK site , Why am I Checking these boards to see how the "nerf" has affected monks, and Now I am seeing like 40 threads of ranger and caster "LULL" spells, Lets Get back to Business, I for one amd Tottaly Upset , I Used to be able to solo In Karnors Castle , The Guardians which are obviously higher lvl than a few of the mobs near the entrance would take me down to the last bubble , Now i Cant even solo a Freakin Light blue without being down to one bub of health, As for the Grouping , I agree with ... Hell i would have to scroll to get there name , The Fact that the cleric is now casting heals more , when I am pulling, I Currently atm am lvl 59 and my gears isnt really all that uber , And I have talked to a few monks with really nice stuff and they say that they havent noticed a difference all "that Big" Hell anyone posting here that hasnt noticed a difference must either "A" be Bullshittin or "B" have some really NICE i mean NICE stuff , But what about the Rest of us monks whom havent gotten the chance to get that Uber gear, WTH are we supposed to do , I For one Enjoyed soloing well for "AA" purposes and I take Pride in being a puller , hell now its becomming hard to pull , almost like I am waiting for a Health buff or a Full health bar bf4 pulling mobs , Sigh , Verant has really taken some fun out of being a puller , and forget soloing , I CAN understand the arguement about peeps Whining about Monks AC getting up near where plate classes can be , but why take all that away from us , why not just lower the AC and give us more Dodge ability or something hell we were designed to be a more that way in the first place, And take a look at alot of the higher "AA" abilities Crit hits , Sigh I outaggroe almost every tank I run into , The only thing That i Find out now is that I have to FD more often in groups, Well I am not gonna Quit playing Jaky Chan , I am gonna try Harder and see how they tend to fix there fuk up, anyways thank you for letting me Vent , Have a GREAT day !!!

10-28-2002, 05:09 PM

VI is apparently doing everything they can to reinstitute the cleric-warrior-enchanter triumvirate. Sad.

Grazel Nukite, Grandmaster

Triage Quadbypass, Vicar of 60 Blueberries

Valiant Elite, Druzzil Ro

spiritual thistlethorne

10-28-2002, 08:19 PM

Btw just an FYI (Jaky, don't look! )

The new harmony is in Shadowhaven Druid's guild, from Sarlos Windwalker.

In case someone you know is still looking.

 

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