Monks are Supposed to be more Agile

I started a monk worried about the AC thing; then I realised that Monks will be able to avoid soo much that it won't matter as much. (A Monk is my 1st & only toon)

I figured MONKS = Super Agility. So if they Nerf our AC then that's fine as long as they give a more noticable boost to our Agility (Dodge, Block, parry, etc...) We should get a special adjustment that makes us what i thought i was going to be when i chose a monk (Wickedly Agile)

Everyone Says AGILITY doesn't matter that much (But We're MONKS it should have an increased importance for our race).

I mean you can't just walk around in a robe & footpads of a monkey and expect to live without being able to dodge a FAT metal AXE.

We should be happy with the change but they didn't change our agility enough. They're Bad they need to change it, right.


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Stats mean little to nothing. Having 100 agi or 255 will not change a lot of thing <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> Maybe this should be parsed again in light of the new ner^H^H^Hpatch.


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[Fopoodzo]

Ironically they nerfed monk mitigation (and didn't change monk avoidcance at all) and INCREASE every other melee classes avoidance in the same patch.







Admittedly in some cases it was only a small avoidance increase, but the way VI's goes about things sometimes is very strange.


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Why would they decrease something only to increase it in another area? That isn't balance, what you'd end up with is the exact same problem as before. The problem would be the same but the cause would be slightly different.



As for other classes (all other than rogue) getting increases in the same patch it could have been to make the monk change milder.


Luthair (http://) [60 Crusader]

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[Savanti]

It was a SLAP in the face.



A purposeful strike to monkdom.



A laugh in the darkness.



A power play.



An abuse of VI power.



A reinforcement to prove just how far they will go to show just how utterly stupid they can be at times.


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[Shawee]

Well, when i first created my monk I put a good portion of my points into agility thinking of D&D and how I invisioned agility working with a monk...I later found out through consensus on this board that agility only/mainly increases your AC some...



However, that hasn't been my experiance with agility..

I remember some time back while i was hunting in Soluseks Eye, I happened to purchase a couple of items that gave me a large boost to my agility. What I noticed after putting on the Items, is that my abililty to dodge along with other skills started shooting up....I was not only increasing skills but I increased the frequency that they worked against mobs...



My theory on why we think agility is not essential has to do more with the style of play from the old days to present. When our style of play changed from more grouping to more solo was the time that people were pushing more hp and more ac...Having more Agility within the solo style of play was never tested.....



So the question is.....does having a 150 agility mean more now? I think it always meant something, but to what degree, I can't say....I just know for me that when my agility would change either by items or spells I seemed to fire off skills like dodge more often.....






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[Fopoodzo]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> Why would they decrease something only to increase it in another area? That isn't balance, what you'd end up with is the exact same problem as before. The problem would be the same but the cause would be slightly different. <hr></blockquote>





It is when you end up throwing melee balance out of the window.



They want warriors to tanking more effectively than monks, fine. (they did anyway in 99% of senarios)



They want to nerf monks into a purely damage dealing role, fine. (as opposed to giving warriors a mitigation bonus)





But IF they want that then they need to re-balance monks and give them the TOOLS to do the damage dealing job.



Wacking monks with a nerf isn't doing that, it's just doing half the job. The nerfing bit. To correctly rebalance pure melees they need to increase monk damage a little bit (proportionally to the defensive nerf).



Otherwise you get the current situation where you'd never take a monk over a rogue or warrior or hybrid for a group. (which might not be so bad except the mitigation nerf affected soloing if anything MORE than it nerfed tanking :/)


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MY LORD!!! How many times must I say this, they DID NOT NERF AC!



They lowered Monks damage mitigation. HUGE difference. AC is unaffected, when you get hit, you take MORE damage than normal.



Many Monks have actually experienced getting hit LESS than before, but when hit, doing more damage than pre-patch. Evening out to about the same damage.



I think this is what VI was thinking (this is NOT what I think!)



VI's thoughts: Monks, by nature, should get hit less that other PURE melee types. In reverse though, when they DO get hit, they should take more damage than a Plate Mail'ed TANK WARRIOR.



This is prolly why the nerf came about.



I do NOT support this nerf, but when you rip on a nerf (which you SHOULD!), at least get how they NERFED you correct and why they nerfed you.



Deed out.






Deedrok - 53 Necro

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[Shawee]

Deedrok, I agree with you, but since you seem to be more knowledgable about this nerf then me(no sarcasm here) could you explain to me why there seems to be an AC level that seems to be the key on this nerf not being as bad...



For example, I heard it said numerous times on this board that if you have a 1200 ac or better than this nerf had little impact on you..If that is the case, how is it that you can seperate one from the other as being nerfed or not being nerfed?


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My Theory:



In the damage calculation they made our mitigation ac equal our current mitigation ac -20% or something. This way, our ac didn't look different on our character screens, but our mitigation ac was effectively significantly lower. Mitigation ac is basically ac given by armor.. ie 45ac on Vindi BP. This capped out at 360 points of usefulness I've heard. Monks with well over the 360 points of mitigation ac were still over that mark after nerf, but monks at or below that mark were hit hard.. by about 20% more damage on average over time.



Thats just my theory, but the numbers are probably off.



Korisa


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I Sit with around 3700hps and over 1350ac unbuffed and i felt that nerf, and if its hurt those below me worse, then i truely feel for them because it has had a nasty effect on my play. Most Mobs with any level on them are now hiting me for max or close to a hella lot more, and avoidance is cute, but it does not cut it at times, I also can not say that i have noticed i get hit anyless


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I would have to agree. I take around 20% more damage for the same mobs I used to fight. Possibly more because I use a T-staff which causes my fights to vary. I am hardly uber.. 3209 HPs and 1118 AC.



I have definitely felt the effect of this nerf. It seems to me that VI missed their mark.. as always. With PoP, again, monks have gotten short changed in general. Still debating if I wish to purchase the expansion based upon the recent nerf and seeing what benefits monks will get in PoP.



Question:



With the Kunark expansion casters, and hybrids, got spells...pure melee got discs. They sucked by comparison but we got them. Why with this expansion we get nothing?



I realize we get new planar AAs but so do the casters..as well as spells.





Just an observation...



Drac


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[Fopoodzo]

Deedrok-



<blockquote>Quote:<hr> Many Monks have actually experienced getting hit LESS than before, but when hit, doing more damage than pre-patch. Evening out to about the same damage.<hr></blockquote>







I'm afraid to say that is utter rubbish, at best it's wishful thinking (I know I thought that was what VI would most likely do before they patched).





However in all the parses I've seen and in my own parses AVOIDANCE HAS NOT CHANGED AT ALL.



Mitigation has been nerfed by 10-20% and avoidance is EXACTLY the same. Monks are NOT getting hit less. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/frown.gif ALT=":(">






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[Savanti]

Monks are getting hit MORE!



Less mitigation to hit through allows mobs to land more blows!


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Yup yup yup, I just checked out the parsing posts right after I posted my comments.



You are correct, AVOIDANCE is exactly the same. Mitigation is worse. I'm estimating between 10 and 30 percent change in damage received.



Ouch, this is horrible. I really don't understand why they did this. They SHOULD have offset this with an increase in avoidance! That would make monks more monkly. By nature, monks are quick, fast, should avoide blows a lot. When they do get hit, I agree that they should mitigate LESS than a WAR, but thats all I agree with.



Stupid VI and SOE.



The mitigation nerf makes sense IN THEORY, if they UPPED AVOIDANCE. But they didn't, this is a simple cut and dry WHACK to this class. Horrible, very horrible.



This, BTW, only happened because of low weight, high AC HP items, that VI created and made monks UBAH. They should've nerfed the items, not the class. As this impacts LOW LEVEL monks (and non UBAH monks without all the 100hp items) TONS more than High Level ones that have all the 100hp items.



Gross.


Deedrok - 53 Necro

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Nezaaka - 19 Monk

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We need an avoidance boost to counterbalance the mitigation nerf.



Otherwise, we are not balanced.


-Korph







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[Savanti]

Don't forget damage increase.


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In my opinion, VI does all the expansions backwards.



I see it like this.



First, VI "designs" the zones. Then, once they let the players do all the testing/"exploiting" of them, they tweak them to make them harder and even less conducive to the original idea of the zone.



Then, VI designs the items. Notice no quotation marks. Because this is the main reason so many people think they are fucking idiots - with good reason. VI designs items with incredible ratios/stats that have increased so vastly since EQ has come out, they didn't stop to think that for each expansion they would have to improve on these further (the idea of new content) - hence, mudflation, and the reason nerfs (see also "class balancing") happen.



Finally, VI institutes nerfs. This happens after a collective:



"Oops, shit."



from the designers when they see how the items have completely fucked up a class role/ability/whathaveyou. This throws the populace of the Warrior/Rogue/Beastlord/Wizard/Paladin/Monk/Druid/Cleric/Shaman/Enchanter/Necromancer/Ranger/Magician/Shadowknight classes into an uproar about how nerfing this class unbalances that one, they need a boost, then if they get a boost, another class says their role is getting nerfed, and its a downward spiral from there.



Things are left unfixed, quests go unfinished, pathing stays broken. This is why.



--Cen


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