What are monks and rogues ?

I realize there is a gazillion threads here in this forum, but here goes anyway.



The mitigation issue brought up by plate classes was a legitimate one - for the high end guilds only. Just to dream up some number I would say that on my server there is 25 or fewer monks with mitigation on par with warriors. So while the paladin nerf got stopped because it only affected the top 5% paladins, the monk nerf was effectuated even if it only affected 1% of the monks or less.But either way, it does make sense that monks mitigate less than warriors and knights, at least from my point of view.



As others have pointed out many places in this forum, monks have been a defensive class since the start of eq, always competing with warriors for the ac crown. Our AA skills introduced a year ago further reinforced this impression, with combat stability, combat agility as arch skills and even physical enhancement, return kick and double riposte as *class skills*. If we were "too good" already, why give us means to further enhance mitigation, instead of giving us more offensive skills ?



This is starting to look like kunark and the first 10 months of velious all over again. Because while it doesn't make sense that monks should mitigate as well as warriors, there should be a very siginificant gap between warrrior DPS and monk/rog DPS. Right now monks are back to what we used to be during the kunark/vel period, a subpar warrior class with less hp and mitigation, and dealing damage on par with or slightly above warriors (in velious we even dealt less dam than warriors due to shittty weapons available to us, where 13/20 was our endgame weapons)



Personally I wouldn't mind if rog/mnk stayed on their current hp bases for PoP, while warriors and knights gained significantly. But at the same time, I would want mnk/rog to gain siginificant offensive advantages, where warr/knights stayed on the same base. This is what it is all about, right ?



Currently warriors are double-dipping, having awesome weapons available to them, and mitigating better than other class. There is no drawback to playing a warrior now, as there is with monk and rogue, hence they are not balanced at all.



Please let monks and rogues further enchance their offensive capabilities in PoP and increase the gap to defensive classes, denying defensive classes the same possibilities.



Please let tanking classes further enchance their basis for tanking (hp/mitigation) in PoP and increase the gap to offensive classes, denying offensive clases the same possibiliities.



No more of this more of everything for everyone bullshit, it's what is truly ruining and mudflating the game.



And please give us skills where you don't have to make extended use of your imagination for them to make sense (is there ANYONE who spend AA points on the improved safefall skill ?)


<a href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=3528">
Walkabout, Grandmaster Gecko</a>

The Companions (http://www.eqcompanions.com)

The Tribunal (http://www.thetribunal.org/)


Am I balanced yet ?</p>

I would be very please to hear what Verant feels a monks role in their vision is.



What is our purpose? Are we now just less effective versions of rogues?



-LP






</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub35.ezboard.com/ulordplatypus.showPublicProfile?language=EN>LordPlatypus</A> at: 10/21/02 3:28:19 am

[Fopoodzo]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> Because while it doesn't make sense that monks should mitigate as well as warriors, there should be a very siginificant gap between warrrior DPS and monk/rog DPS. Right now monks are back to what we used to be during the kunark/vel period, a subpar warrior class with less hp and mitigation, and dealing damage on par with or slightly above warriors (in velious we even dealt less dam than warriors due to shittty weapons available to us, where 13/20 was our endgame weapons) <hr></blockquote>





Exactly, now they've nerfed defence a monk offensive/damage increase is needed. VI should know by now you cannot drasitically nerf something, without counter-balancing it. Not without totally breaking class balance anyway - which they pretty much have without a monk damage increase post nerf.




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what a monk is now is just a sub par rogue. end of story. we do less damage then a rogue yet we take hit's worse then they do.fact is with the change like it is all guild's would be better suited to split there monk's up have half make warrior's and the other half make rogues. monk's are no longer a middle class between warrior's and rogue's monk's are below rogues in all way's now except avoidance but avoidance will become even less of a gap now. with the mod caps raised it is only time untill warrior's rogues will avoid better then a monk can.due to less dodge block parry mod's on leather armor pieces.


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It's as if someone just nerfed us for the hell of it without considering balance. Monks used to be half warrior and half rogue. We could pinch-hit for a tank or a rogue, but not do as good as either one. Now most monks (those without VERY nice gear for their level) need someone else to tank for them. Basically, monks are now like rogues in needing a tank. But, unlike rogues, we do a lot less damage. Why play a monk if you need someone to tank for you? Might as well play a rogue.



'Course this is a little premature with PoP just opening. 'Could be that PoP is just packed with high AC and high HP monk gear and the only way to encourage monks to go out and get it was to start out with a nerf. Pre-nerf there really wasn't much room at the high end to make monks better. It's all about a hunt for more HP and more resists. Just a couple NTOV or better items puts monk AC well over the top.


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PoP isn't the answer for the Monk nerf!



The casual gamer, whom this nerf affected the most may not purchase Planes of Power for whatever reason. Thus placing items in that expansion (assuming NO DROP will be attacked to most of it) isn't a fix for a class they have most definately broken.



For example:



My wife and I play the game, she a 43 Ranger, and I a 43 Monk (you can almost see the problem right now, can't you?!?). A real life friend and co-worker also plays, again 43 Ranger.



The three of us cannot without considerable danger of death, defeat one low blue con in Burning Woods. Success of the mob only results on what's called 'aggro kiting', as my wife will stay out of its range, while we follow behind and pound on it.



The result of this nerf includes my consideration to leave the game prior to level 50, and not even consider purchasing yet another expansion.



They nerfed our class, and they come out with an expansion, doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.



Every melee capable class received an upgrade to their defense (?) skill at the same time the monks were nerfed, which included bards getting this upgrade.



Bards, who we see kiting 4+ mobs in any given zone, have now been upgraded even more. Monk's can't kite, like a warrior we have to stand toe to toe with the mob. Rogue's have a great ability called Backstab, that only works if they are at the mob's back, thus not taking aggro/damage prior to issuing the BS attack.



If the answer to this problem is Planes of Power (hurry, go out and buy it so we can fix our monk back to what it used to be prior to the expansion), I will be giving up not only my monk, my 52 druid, and my guild of 3 years.



Thanks Sony/Verant, for making my game, harder to enjoy!



Dust Boll - 52 Druid (Retired) Guild Leader

Khonshu Faris'Alqamr - 44 Monk (should hit level tonight)


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[Fopoodzo]

Yep it was definately a solo/casual gamer fun nerf. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/frown.gif ALT=":(">



All the more annoying as it hits those with the worst gear hardest and doesn't effect those with the best. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/frown.gif ALT=":(">


</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub35.ezboard.com/bmonklybusiness43508.showLocalUserPublicProfile?lo gin=fopoodzo>Fopoodzo</A> at: 10/21/02 11:17:40 am

ok, if were gonna use some sorta common sense issue here, lemme give you a situation, a shaolin monk, walking down a path, and a big fat Knight from a neigboring kingdom jumps (well, barely hops) out in a 500lb suit of armour, with a sword bigger then his entire body and says, lets go you pathetic old fart! now the monk wearing little more then a robe and sandles, you are telling me, is going to be able to dodge and mitigate damage less then this walking scrap yard, also remember monks spend there entire life perfecting the art of dealing and RECEIVEING large amounts of pain, much more then any other adventurer, it is there entire life to mitigate damage, they live for the tortures of haveing to go without armour and bulgy muscles, but there speed and ability to endure this torture is what makes them so powerful, read a little Cabilis Swifttails stories that came with Kunark package, its all right in there, they not only can endure pain, they actually like it, therefore are kings of mitigation. hope i made a point, if not, you dont understand the life and legend of monks, there sacrfices, and rewards for sacrificeing so much, its all in the story, which few care to read.


Koan Kong - Swifttail of the 4th rung



Koan's Equipment. (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=106543)</p>

Its really funny .. the monks that were the target of this nerf were the least effected.



Its like walking on the street and getting bitch slapped by someone caus they were robbed by a thief with a red jacket and hey .. you have a red jacket! ..


- Syrell -

Do, or do not. There is no try.
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[Fopoodzo]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> Its like walking on the street and getting bitch slapped by someone caus they were robbed by a thief with a red jacket and hey .. you have a red jacket! .. <hr></blockquote>







Then some complete stranger comes up to you and tells you, you 'deserve' it. /sigh


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