There is still hope !!

Verant nerfed us because we told them they could. When Zadkiel advocates a “wait and see” approach in a post stickied to the top of the board it sends VI the message that the nerf may be justified, and that monks, or at least the monkly “opinion leaders”, are willing to see how it plays out.



If VI thinks we are willing to “wait and see”, why would they not go through with the nerf?



Warriors, rogues, and even Paladins it seems, all have “opinion leaders” who are zealous and unequivocal advocates for their class. None would advocate a “wait and see” approach to a proposed nerf to their class.



THERE IS STILL HOPE.



We ALL must send a CLEAR and CONCISE message to VI that we will not tolerate the nerf, and expect them to promptly UN-NERF US.



Send an EXACT COPY of the following email directly to VI at eqmail@soe.sony.com daily. VI can not take the time to read all the emails we send, but by all of us sending the EXACT same email, VI may get the message.



TO: eqmail@soe.sony.com



Dear EQ Team,



* * * * I have thoroughly enjoyed playing EQ for some time. Unfortunately, because of the October 16 monk nerf, I have no choice but to cancel my account.



* * * * I am hopeful that the EQ Team will promptly repeal this nerf, and restore monk defense to its pre-Oct 16 level. When that happens I will purchase PoP expansion and re-activate my account.

* * * * If the nerf stands, I am finished with EQ.



Sincerely,





It is short, simple, and to the point. Feel free to send ANOTHER email with your specific views on the issue.



Please post on the "I emailed VI" thread when you have emailed VI.



EMAIL VI AND WE WILL PREVAIL!








- Irwin Fletcher

6'4'' - 6'9'' with the fro</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub35.ezboard.com/ufletchlives.showPublicProfile?language=EN>Fletch Lives</A> at: 10/20/02 5:09:54 pm

That email doesnt cut it. Your not explaining why you think the nerf should be taken away. I'm sorry to say but your post is falling on deaf ears.


<a href=http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=139385>Sionistic Triplefist</a>

58 Monk

Veeshan
</p>

Here is what i sent in:

==============================================



To whom it may concern:



I must express my displeasure with the most recent nerf to monk defensive abilities. The nerf has done nothing to address you original intent and hurt the majority of the monk community, while missing the uber, high-end game monks. you missed the mark.



Unless the nerf is reversed, or re-directed towards the intended group of high-end monks, I will be retiring from EQ completely. After 3 years of play, I would be forced to cancel all 5 accounts, and move on to another game.



Unfortunately, the only voice I have that may be noticed, along with hundreds of others, is the cancellation action, but that's not my first choice. I would much rather continue playing the game, but only if it remains fun, and not ridiculous, as it is now after this nerf.



Thank you for your time.


</p>

[Mrisda]

All these posts are falling on deaf ears.



Everyone's got "The E-mail" that will send Verant the unmistakable message that monks are pissed off and we won't tolerate this anymore. Bullshit. Not just to this thread, but to them all.



Verant isn't going to change shit because we're not willing to take the necessary step of CANCELLING ALL ACCOUNTS. People are protesting by striking by not pulling, cancelling one of 6 accounts, making an alt and not playing a monk, etc. It's ridiculous. All Verant will understand is a loss of revenue, and the only way we can do THAT is to completely quit.



But, not enough of us will do that. I'm not going to, I still like EQ. Haven't played my monk since the changes admittedly, but I like playing with the druid, the necro, the shaman, etc, just like everyone else.



Face the facts, we're not "beaten down," we're not lacking an advocate. We're just hooked on a video game that just fucked us over. Verant won't change monks unless they lose a lot of money, or unless this is just a temporary change for some fucked up reason (God alone knows why they'd do that, but it IS Verant...)



We won't change anything with emails, especially with almost all the other classes loudly voicing that the nerf was needed. We really CAN'T do anything except "wait and see." The only reason Pallys got changed back so fast was because ALL the classes bitched about it. The reason monks WON'T get changed is because all the classes EXCEPT monks are patting Verant on the ass for a job well done.



Face it, we're fucked until PoP. If PoP will even make any difference, of course.


</p>

Yup yuo've got it mrisda. Even our friends are screwing us over. It makes me sick. In fact thats the biggest problem with the patch is now even my friends show me contempt and refuse to listen to me.


</p>

What about everyone stop playing with their monks? I mean everyone, even those high level. This would mean that there are no monk puller for raids... Maybe this would make guilds ask for monks (unless sk's can pull as well as we can), and our only answer will be "monks yes, but without nerf".

What do you think? Will they have enough with SK pullers, or will they end up helping us getting un-nerfed?


</p>

If everyone stopped playing their monks, you'd have a whole ass-load of newb 58 Masters running around with their newly purchased accounts. Think about it.


<center><img src=http://home.earthlink.net/~solkeiter/ThisIsSuperchangsSig.JPG></center><center><font face=New Times Roman>Superchang of Mith Marr</font></center><center><A HREF=http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=291260><font color=blue>Gear<A></font></center>

"Never underestimate the power of positive thinking or of channeling negative energy into an element of fierce determination." - Flex Wheeler</p>

Well, lvl 58 newb monks shouldn't be able to pull decently, so guilds would still be in needing of a well-playing high-level monk.



And then, if they want you (I'm not still a well-playing high-level monk, only lvl 20 and 33), then we'll ask them to support us on having the nerf un-nerfed.



Am I dreaming? PLEASE, WAKE ME UP!!! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)">


</p>

kraalix, maybe your friends wont listen to you because your bitching about this nerf all the god damn time. Alot of classes have been nerfed before and just because monks finally got nerfed you need to bitch. As if you that important.



Edit: Furthermore, the nerf to pally slay undead is not important to me at all, fuck its not even important. The change ONLY effected lvl60 pallies. Pretty much this nerf is a WHOLE lot fucking diff then ours.


<a href=http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=139385>Sionistic Triplefist</a>

58 Monk

Veeshan
</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub35.ezboard.com/utibbil.showPublicProfile?language=EN>Tibbil</A> at: 10/21/02 2:55:13 am

Maybe if enough monks send in "I quite" letters you can not only get them to reinstate the changes made to monk defensive capabilities, but you can force them to reinstate the orignial design of the treant fists!!



This is one time where monks are going to have to "take it on the chin" for the good of the rest of the game. You think Verant is gonna bow down to a few threats of canceled monk accounts to lose countless other accounts due to what was an obvious game imbalance?



I agree, they screwed this nerf up. It should have been harsher on the high end monk and less harsh on the low end, but it is what it is, and its very highly doubtful that they will return to the way it was.



Mobhunter brought up a good point. The pally SU nerf was situational. In a few rare situations a pally could do really good damage. Monks had gotten to the point where they mitigated damage very close to tank classes and avoided ~30% more attacks in ALL situations. This happened due to Verant not seeing how AA and monk abilities would stack.



Suck it up and take one for the team, or cancel your account if you dont enjoy EQ. But canceling your account and sending a letter to verant isnt going to change a thing.


</p>

[SkyKungfu]

Solinar, when i read your post, all that comes to my mind is that you are either an idiot or an a$$, pick one.



Sky


</p>

Skykungfu, whats wrong? cant handle the truth? He's right this nerf is NOT going to go away. All your hopes of sending in these "I quit" emails are not gonna happen because theres alot of people who wont quit simply because all the time they spent into thier monk. Hell im not quiting my monk over some silly shit like this " boo fucking hoo i cant solo anymore." And as for pulling, big mobs are still dying, someone is pulling them. So i guess pulling isnt impossible. But i do agree on one thing, this nerf really did lower of definitiveness(that a real word?) on our class. But hell, we arnt the first ones


<a href=http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=139385>Sionistic Triplefist</a>

58 Monk

Veeshan
</p>

[SkyKungfu]

Simple answer Tib, the nerf is wrong =).



Sky


</p>

Was the treant fist nerf wrong? (you know, the one where the original treant fists had unlimited instant cast CH charges?)



Can you even admit that it is possible to have to nerf a class for the good of the game if you have let something get out of hand?



If they made wizards capable of doing 500DPS indefinately without aggro, would you be against the nerfing of wizzies to restore game balance?



When most of the everquest community, the EQ live team, and even a large percentage of monks admit that monk tanking was overpowered considering the rest of the abilities that monks get, doesnt that tell you something?



Oh, wait, I know! They must all be idiots or arses.






</p>

[SkyKungfu]

Dang lags, sorry =(


</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub35.ezboard.com/uskykungfu.showPublicProfile?language=EN>SkyKungfu</A> at: 10/21/02 1:06:05 pm

[SkyKungfu]

So a large percentage of the monks admits that this nerf was needed ? LMAO



Oh yes, please give me 500dps without agro and I wont loose another word about the nerf. Ok, im no wizzy just kind of "melee wizard", so give me 400dps and we still have a deal.



Yes, you are right, just on VERY rare occassions I admit that a nerf is needed and good. And thats usally not a class nerf. They just screw up with unreal items again and again. Also our "balancing" should have happend with adjusting some uber items, not with beating the whole monk class down.



Sky



PS: If the EQ team is so smart, and it is so obviously that every jack and jo knows it, why took it that long that they realized monks defense needs to be nerfed ?


SkyKungfu lvl 60 Grandmaster of the Celestial Fists Guardians of Doom Bertoxxolous
SkyBasher lvl 60 Warlord / Miracculix lvl 55 Druid / Crakman lvl 60 Enchanter




http://www.guardiansofdoom.com/Faces/Sky_Faces2.jpg</p></p>

Heres what I am hearing, and what SOE needs to hear as its the monk community voice, not the individual.

=================================================



Attention SOE,



This nerf was not needed, and didn't solve any problem that you might have sought to fix. Perhaps sharing the "problem" you think the monk class has with the monk community will yield a response by MONKs with possable solutions, or not. eaither way this nerf needs to be reversed!



We would also like to make it knowen to you that our offensive abilities have never been addressed and we feel it is no longer balanced with rogues and warriors. Please take a hard look at the current offensive discaplines and the current lack off any remarkable Alternate advancement ability such as rogue assignate, wiz manaburn, pally undead proc, etc.





Thanks you for your time,

The Monks of Everquest





=================================================



Is there a way to offically pass on requests and opinions to SOE without sending to an email with a leap of faith that someone other then an intern with a huge ddelete button might read our conserns and ack??



WDYT?



Quichan Paine

60 Grandmaster

Emarr

Keeper or the Niasa en'Valrim




</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub35.ezboard.com/uquichanpaine.showPublicProfile?language=EN>Quichan Paine</A> at: 10/21/02 1:24:39 pm

Tell my why its wrong then. Because you cant solo anymore? who said you should be able to. You cant pull anymore? Things are still dying arnt they? maybe you should look at your own play style. You cant tank for exp groups anymore? Who said you should. Your mad because your lollypop got taken away.


<a href=http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=139385>Sionistic Triplefist</a>

58 Monk

Veeshan
</p>

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> They just screw up with unreal items again and again. Also our "balancing" should have happend with adjusting some uber items, not with beating the whole monk class down.<hr></blockquote>



IMHO, you are 100% correct with this statement. The proliferation of 100-125 hp items that were monk, caster, and other "paper armor" classes could use, coupled with the AC cap that every level 60 with average gear is above.



You and I agree, if uber monk items had been 10 AC 50HP 50ATK, +proc other other +DPS items, while plate tanks got 40AC 100HP items, there would never have been a problem.



They screwed up with loot bigtime. They made everyone get a heck of alot closer to the same (+massive HP, everyone has capped AC) so that the most important factor that decided if someone is a good tank or not was avoidance.



The question is, how long would it take to fully re-itemize every piece of equipent in game, and how would you as a monk feel to log in and see your previous 55AC 100hp aow legs (and every other piece of armor you have) nerfed to 10ac 50hp and +ATK?



They let things get out of hand with items. Would you advocate a change to items similar to the one I hypothetically stated above? Would you be any less pissed to log in and have 900-1000 AC and 1000 less HP with some +DPS perks?



In order to preserve the game, you have to balance the classes. One cannot be clearly better than the others, and that is the road that monks were headed down.



Look at the number of monks on any server. Now look at the number of knights. Why do you think there are so many more monks than hybrids?



Make equipment and buffs scale with the classes, nerf the AC on some monk items so that your typical monk is considerably less AC than other plate classes, and remove the AC cap (adjusting mob abilities so that encounters are not trivial due to increased mitigation) and the monk nerf would never have been necessary.



That scenario is waaaaaaaaaaaaay more work for VI than just nerfing monks mitigation/avoidance tables.



Now do you see why VI chose the route they did? They know they screwed up, and they used the simplest approach to fix it that they could. The fix isnt the best choice, but it is better than it was before.


</p>

AC cap is kinda hard to deal with. But i wouldnt mind them making modifiers for equipment when a monk equips it. Fuck i dont even care if i cant solo anymore, the game would make alot more fucking sense.


<a href=http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=139385>Sionistic Triplefist</a>

58 Monk

Veeshan
</p>

very well put. Did they not have yet another chance to rectify this with the new expansion? better gear is coming...be sure of that, but did they learn from their mistakes? we'll know soon enough.



My point is this... I don't think the nerf was needed, and I definatly don't see any problem being solved. It was a mistake.


</p>

Mrisda .. Ill even push it one further. Only way to hurt VI is to quit and or to make your opinion known.



Tell your friends, tell your family .. tell the world (!) about how Verrant respects and how decent they are towards their player base. Bad reputation eventually hurts. Its that many more people that wont purchase their products. Its that many more people that will hear about it in some inane conversation and tell a friend who tells another that then when hesitating about which game to buy takes the other guys products caus he heard VI was a bunch of (...).



You all get the idea. I can tell you .. Im about the only one among my friends still playing EQ. Another still does .. all the rest (and thats quite a lot of gamers) have stopped, or never even started. Im just bored and playing till the game I want comes out (Shadowbane). They decided not to even bother giving VI money till then. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)">


- Syrell -

Do, or do not. There is no try.
</p>

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> The question is, how long would it take to fully re-itemize every piece of equipent in game, and how would you as a monk feel to log in and see your previous 55AC 100hp aow legs (and every other piece of armor you have) nerfed to 10ac 50hp and +ATK?<hr></blockquote>



About 5 man days (MAX) of a temp database programmers time.



You could do it by a simple item swap quest (a la Primal Velium Fistwraps.)



Take all 100+hp ALL/ALL items and remove MNK from them.

Implement hand in quest, where monk can hand in now useless item and get a slightly different item with less hps (say 75max), and maybe vengeance 1 instead or something.



Items aren't exactly hard to create.. Most likely items will be stored in one big database table on the server.. adding 200/300 lines to it (there aren't THAT many 100hp all/all pieces of gear) isn't really going to be that big a chore..



And the quest would be as simple as SWAP item code 06782 for item code 27182. Hardly challenging stuff, a primary school computer studies pupil could make those sort of changes.



Hail, Velious Monk Nerf Quest Bot00



Hello Herrick, Would you like me to make you [Ring of NerfSky] [Flayed Gimpybastage Hide Leggings] [Vyremm's Earring of Wussiness].... blah blah blah...



Couple of IT programmer temps could do it in a day, plus a couple for system testing, and bugger all UAT (since VI make us do that for them, which is why nerfs occur =P)



Yes the top end guys will lose a few hps, but will still have more hps than any other monks in the game, and still rank in same place in the hierarchy. At least it addresses the root cause somewhat, rather than changing mitigation mechanics for a class that have been in place since day one.



H














<font color="#0066CC">Herrick Reigns (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=89938)</font>

58 Master of Quellious

Divine Winds


<font color="#0066CC">Bracken (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=100817)</font>

47 Druid of Tunare

Mystic Valor


Saryrn Server


http://www.monastery.karoo.net/eq/itvius.jpg
</p>

[SkyKungfu]

I really dont care if its more work for VI or not. After all they get paid a lot of money to do their job. And its not that many items that would have need a nerf. They are probably in a database and a small program, made by a student in a few hours, might be able to adjust the stats.



Last not least, those that have such items and loose a part of their usefulness, would OF COURSE pe pissed, and I really feel with them as well. But better it hurts the 3% that made VI nerf monks, than nerf 100% and probably the not targeted 97% most.



If I had to decide it, I wouldnt nerf the class and I wouldnt nerf the items. Just improve plates midigation a bit, and change the items for future drops. No big deal, noone has a reason to be pissed. Much work? As allready stated, not really, and if so, well, what are we paying for.



Do you really think the plate classes wouldnt have been happy with the increase, even if there never has been anything said about a monk nerf ?



Sky


</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub35.ezboard.com/uskykungfu.showPublicProfile?language=EN>SkyKungfu</A> at: 10/21/02 3:37:02 pm

Thank you Sky. Is commonsence really that rare of a comodity?


</p>

[Mrisda]

Must we flame? Must we personally attack people?



I don't give a shit WHO started it, we're ALL smarter than that.



We're all pissed off in one way, shape, or form. Some are pissed because of the nerf (I'm one of them), some are pissed at those pissed off at the nerf, some are pissed at those pissed.....



I'm tired. Let's just discuss, and keep in mind there are valid viewpoints beyond your own.


</p>