From the many, mamy posts on this topic. My perception.

From what I have read of the many parsings/posts regarding this issue, Is it safe to assume the following?



High level monks and group/raid encounters 50 to 55+ have almost NO change due to GEAR available to the high level characters.



Sub-50 monks are getting hit with the brunt of the nerf attacking their soloability and group/raid encounters due to lack of UBER equipment.



Conlcusion: Monks are still UBER if you can get them to 50+ but it is now much harder to do so. Monks can still outdamage/tank UBER mobs/encounters as well as warriors due to high end 50+ gear available. ALSO the changes made had almost NO effect on the targeted players (50+ UBER equiped monks who kicked the @ss of their Whiny Warrior counterparts and still do) but the low end monk (which wasn't the target of the change) is getting bent over and raped with a hot iron. (or having their tails put to the pencil sharpener if you are iksar)



So the patch was in fact ineffective in accomplishinig the goal VI stated but did have the side effect of slapping the hell out of low level monks. As the proud owner (well once proud owner) of a level 20ish monk I see myself getting pounded alot harder and unless twinked with HP gear cannot hold my own. (As some have done tests with high level monks I did with my 20ish one. had him fight the same mobs with twinked gear worthy of 20 levels higher than myself and with level appropriate gear. I could hold my own with the twinked gear but got pounded with the 20th level gear on.)



Is this correct? I may be totally wrong here and if I am please let me know, but this is what I have gleaned is the gist of the patch changes.



They aimed for the lion and missed, ending up hitting a completely defenseless rabbit and the lion got away.



Scalezz Quetzalcoatl


</p>

First thing that came into my mind: Glad I'm 51.

Second thing I thought of: Verant sucks

Third thought: Why squash the newbies?!


-Korph




<a href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=308735">http://gjband.com/Sig.jpg
Level 51 Disciple</a></p>

[Shawee]

I saw this comming a mile away....Meaning, I new this nerf wasn't going to bother the ubers much at all, but us monks who haven't reached that status in gear have to change the way we play or not play at all....The way I feel right now is that I don't feel like split pulling mobs anymore for peeps...But if my guild ask me, I will...Just going to have to give them the name of my ranger alt so they can contact me. But honestly, I probably want be online much anymore...The light is shining bright at the end of the Tunnel..



So, guess what Furor and the rest of you self righteous plate tanks, there are a few uber Monks on your server and probably in your guild who can still put you to shame...

Do I hear a call for a second nerf.



Feel sorry for the mid range guilds who are going to have a hard time finding pure (I know my Class Monks) to pull.

Of course they will find away to do it, but it will sure be funny seeing some of these classes dieing left and right and knowing what it is like to have that queasy feeling in your stomach....







FU VI


</p>

Monks can NOT MT Uber mobs better then warriors . Ive asked all over and have yet to hear any monk say they have MTed an uber mob over a warrior. I dont know where this idea came from.


Brother Coraniz Harhar (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=16458)</p>

[Shawee]

Coraniz, I never saw that as the big argument with uber monks...



What is at issue here is not that uber monks can out tank Warriors. it is that some of the uber monks can sure in the hell give a good go at it....So much, that evidently some of the plate classes were having a problem with it....



So, my point is, this nerf hasn't changed the uber monks style of play...They will perform pretty close to the same as before..


</p>

I am a borderline uber monk hehe with 1360 ac and 5900hp raidbuffed. I parsed myself before and after on ssraa snakes and took a net of 12% more damage.



Feels like a nerf to me.


</p>

[Fder]

The idea that monks can MT uber mobs was a gross exageration from monks being such excellent rampage tanks due to their avoiddance allowing them to miss entire rounds, or FD it off in case they aren't able to take a round. Also, some time ago an ubber Guild had a monk tank Vindi, a mob that was so far below them that they could have had a enchanter MT it so long as they found a way to hold aggro.



All classes can reach powerful HP and AC stats these days. Does that make them overpowered, or is it a like of foresight on Verants part as to what introducing high AC, high HP all/all gear to the game would do?



Just a small arguement, take a look at this druid (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=147100) from Ascent Guild on Rodcet Nife. If a druid can obtain such a status, is it no surprise that a monk as a melee class can become powerful with similiaretter gear?


<table width="100%" border="0" height="90">
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60 GRANDMASTER</a>
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Quellious (http://pub54.ezboard.com/bquelliousquaterstherebirth)
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Also just because you have a monk 50+ doesnt mean you are out of the woods. Not all 50+ chars have really good gear. I do wish that were the case tho <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> From what ive read I'd say its the monks with 1200+ ac that weren't hit. this brings to mind the question of whether or not we should conetrate on geting our ac to 1200+? And would sacrificing a couple hundred hp be worth the benefits?


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Holy Crap! that is one Uber Druid I bet they could hold aggro easy just chain casting snare and flame lick. and as long as they could slow the mob and had a CH rotation that Druid could tank Vindi easy. Even with their crap avoidance (dodge caps at 75 for druids). We need to nerf Druids AC! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes">



Kokuei Akujin


</p>

Thanks all for the replies and for pointing out my error of saying that UBER monks can out tank UBER warriors. I guess it's not a matter of out tanking other than being maybe a more desireable tank than a warrior due to our avoidance and FD? I still think that a Warrior AND a monk would be desireable in a group/raid but not if that warrior is Furor. I get enough wine with dinner without having to put up with his.



Anywho. I hope they look at what the change has done to LOW level monks like myself and either change the nerf to something else....or make it not take effect until you have over a certain amount of HP's or AC on your monk, then have the effects go into play. Just having ALL monks take the same penalty does nothing but penalize the low end monks who have less to give.



Thanks again all! I get a little bit of a picture of the overall effects of the change.



I guess I just need to level my monk to UBER status and get enough "F'ers of Furor" UBER lewt to make the nerf negligible.



Scalezz Quetzalcoatl

"Nerfed Monk of Terris-Thule"


</p>

Your assumptions are INCORRECT.



"Uber" monks have been affected. Pulling monks in high-level encounters (VT, NToV, Ssra, etc.) ARE taking significant more damage as they pull. Also, monks against high-level mobs do NOT take damage as well as they used to, period. Therefore, the "nerf" did have it's intended effect...it affected monks at all levels.



In regards to high AC monks being able to still solo well, that is easy to expain. As a level 60 monk I am soloing mobs around level 46-47. These mobs are in the "low dark blue" area. Compared to these mobs' ATK, I have a high AC, so I am seeing little to no difference. But compared to high-level mobs' ATK, my AC is not as high, so I am taking more damage (the drakes in ToV last night were raping me).



The ATK to AC relationship is not linear. As a mob's relative ATK approaches your relative AC, more damage will occur on a logarithmic scale. This is why lower AC and lower level monks got hit so hard by the nerf: they are fighting mobs much closer in level and ATK to them. As you approach level 60, it becomes near impossible to solo mobs close to your level, so you typically solo mobs in the mid to high 40s. Constrast this to the level of mobs a typical level 40 monk tries to solo--they are much closer to the monks' level.



So there is no "missed target" or "hurt the little guy" situation here. ALL monks were affected. It just turns out that due to the mathematics of it all that higher AC monks have not seen significant changes against low-blue mobs. But they have against higher mobs.


</p>

Well, to tell the truth, there is a logical reason for why they wanted to really smack the newbie monks.



Who does all the complaining that monks need to be nurfed?

Well sure some uber guy might start it, but its all lower level newbish people who constantly whine for nurfs.



SO, you nurf the lower level monks, the lower level people see the change and cheer and pick a new scape goat for why they aren't enjoying the game.



While the higher level people see nothing, and go back to reading and watching tv while waiting for their raid.


</p>

Ignap, you miss one thing. Monk armor options are now terribly non linear, because all monk class armor was designed on the basis of us getting a large defensive adjustment. So I see it like this;



Human monk in Velious quest : Nerfed hard

Human monk in Pantherskin: Nerfed hard, ripped off as well.

Human monk in Grey Flesh: Nerfed hard (good, droppable armor)

Human monk in NToV all/all: What nerf?



Effectively balancing for the NToV all/all gear as being the expected armor for a high level monk has broken the class for the vast majority of people.




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