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View Full Version : Just what the hell is Rampage tanking anyway.


Azith Evertoon
10-17-2002, 09:57 PM
I see this in nearly every post some other class makes about how monks can 'rampage tank' and warriors can not.



fill me in wouldya




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There's no greater joy than helping people.


Other than wiping out the entire raid "by accident".
- Fraxas </p>

10-17-2002, 10:06 PM
Some mobs, boss mobs or just uber named, tend to rampage. This allows them to hit the second person on the hate list, once, every normal attack round. The person can be hit anywhere within the zone. Feel free to correct me, anyone, I've only had a couple months experience with rampage mobs.



Monks possibly can (FoH monks, or whatever) tank some uber mobs, like Vindi, but generally don't, obviously because while our avoidance is good, it makes our life jumpy, which is hard to time an efficient CH on. But for rampaging, you tend to be healed by priest classes. Thus, a monk makes a good rampage tanks because mitigation is rarely needed, as you don't get hit as much, and the chance to avoid that one attack is higher than any other class in the game.



Thus, with our pre-patch mitigation, monks tended to be the best rampage tanks, due to our excellent mitigation and avoidance. Also, with monk damage being what it is, it would be pretty easy to stay the rampage tank.



Some people will claim rampage hits more than one person, but this has been proven false numerous times. It's simply because damage jumps from person to person so often, and also because uber mobs hit so fast, it's easy to get confused.


<a href = "http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=285468"> Roemy </a></br>51 Monk</br>Prexus</p>

10-17-2002, 10:24 PM
Best post I ever saw on rampage was on the warrior boards not too long ago.



Monks make good rampage tanks because of the way rampage works. With FD, SS, and mend we have the best ability to keep ourselves alive. We can FD at will which nearly always removes us from a rampage list. But the moment we get back up we can assume the role of rampage tank right away.



On certain mobs like Arch Lich it is extremely important to not lose your rampage tanks. If you do then rampage can eat your raid force up before you can get heals to the person who is taking rampage.



Some will argue that rampage has a distinct range. However it could also be that being outside of a certain range has a drastic affect on your ranking in the rampage list such taht you drop to the bottom. But for all intents and purposes it is best to assume that it has a range.



Ahh here is the post.



<blockquote>Quote:<hr> Here are the FACTS about Rampage.



1. Rampage only hits ONE person. You will see a lot of folks claiming a Rampaging mob can attack more than one player at a time. They are dead wrong. All rampage that exists today in Luclin and all previous expansions attacks only ONE player, period. This is the second most common misconception about rampage.



2. Rampage IS a proc. Rampage procs off of the normal attacks made by the mob you are fighting. If that mob isn't hitting anyone, you won't see any rampage messages. Also, because Rampage is a proc, DEX debuffs and other spells that decrease proc rate can indeed lower the rampage rate. Slows also reduce rampage rate because they reduce the rate of the normal attacks that proc rampage in the first place.



3. Rampage NEVER hits the person who is currenlty being attacked by the mob. Your main tank will never be taking rampage damage while he has aggro on the rampaging mob.



4. Rampage is a SINGLE attack. The person who is being hit by rampage will be hit by one of the mob's normal hits. This attack can be blocked, dodged, parried, and riposted normally.



5. Rampage DOES have a range, and that range IS different from the mob's normal melee range. This range differs from mob to mob. Some mobs can hit you with their rampage attacks literally no matter where you are in the zone; they have unlimited rampage range. Other mobs have rampage range that is barely larger than their normal attack range. Rampage range usually is larger than melee range.



6. Rampage does NOT follow line of sight rules. For normal attacks, if the mob can't see you, it can't hit you. Rampage works differently, and it will hit you even if you are hiding behind objects. If you are in range, you will be hit.



7. Rampage DOES NOT key off the main hate list.

This is the most common misconception about how Rampage works. Any mob that can rampage has TWO hate lists, not one. The mob itself keys off of the main hate list just as every other mob in the game always has. The second hate list is for Rampage, and it works VERY differently from the normal hate list. Understanding how this second hate list works is the key to managing rampaging mobs.



Here are the rules for how the rampage hate list works. These rules determine where the rampage damage goes.



1. The order of the rampage list is based upon the order in which players gain aggro. As soon as you attack the mob, heal someone who is being attacked by the mob, or do anything else that causes the mob to aggro, you will be placed in the next spot on the rampage list.



2. NOTHING will get you off of the Rampage list except for Memwipe. Period. Feign death MAY get you off the rampage list IF you are lucky enough to score a memwipe when you feign, and we all know that's a crapshoot at best. Even death does NOT ALWAYS remove you from the rampage list; many rampaging mobs will start beating on someone who died to rampage the instant they are resurrected. Rumblecrush is notorious for this particular behaviour, so plan your battle rezzing with care and make sure you rez the dead outside rampage range.



3. Nothing you do will move you up or down the rampage list. Taunt, evade, jolt, and other methods of controlling aggro such as chain snaring, stunning, hate giving and hate taking spells, as well as all weapons with hate generating procs all have NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on your position in the rampage list. Chain healing and chain nuking also have absolutely no effect on positions in the rampage list, although they will get you to the top of the main hate list fairly fast.



The list forms in the order the mob aggros people, and it stays in that form, never changing EXCEPT to remove those who have scored memwipes with Feign Death. You CAN clear the list by repeatedly casting memblur and memwipe on the mob you are fighting, BUT remember that this will also clear the main hate list and that can cause all kinds of problems.



Now, things to remember...



Remember, rampage DOES have a range. If you are taking rampage damange and move out of a mob's rampage range, it will start attacking the next person on the rampage list until you move back in range, then it will start beating on you again.



The rampage list is SET IN STONE. This means if you know the order the mob aggroed people, you know exactly the order the rampage attacks will follow. This means you can control it.



If you have Feign Death, and use it, you will NOT take any rampage damage while feigned. When you stand, you will immediately start taking rampage damage again UNLESS you scored a memwipe with Feign Death, in which case you are now at the very bottom of the rampage list. This is, of course, subject to the usual feign death bug... if the mob doesn't buy the feign for whatever reason, you will continue to take rampage damage while Feigned.



Monks usually pull Rampage tank duty, especially if they have Combat Agility 3. The reason for this is that they will get hit by precious few of the rampage attacks due to their unmatched combat avoidance.

The usual strategy...



First, everyone needs to make a hotkey to the effect of "TAKING RAMPAGE DAMAGE NOW" and spam it the instant they start taking rampage damage. Healers need to be ON THE BALL and tracking that message so they can keep whoever it is alive. As long as the person taking rampage damage is alive, in rampage range, and doesn't Feign Death, you have locked rampage attacks down to that single person.



When you engage a rampaging mob, have your main tank get aggro first. Immediately send in all of your Monks and have them attack ONCE only to make sure they get the mob's attention. Note, you MUST make sure your monks attack BEFORE the first heal lands on the tank, or else that healer is going to be the first to take rampage damage and die very quickly. With rooted mobs this is trivially easy to do... just have your main tank hit the mob with an arrow, and then each monk follows suit in exactly the order you want them to take rampage.



Once that is done, engage normally. The monks will spam their enrage hotkeys as they take rampage damage. As long as you have healers keeping up with it, you've got it locked down.



Yes, Clerics, this means you have two main tanks to keep alive. Cope. <hr></blockquote> This is courtesy of Jilaman.



There are a few exceptions. Like rampage can hit the MA if he is the only person on the hate list. THis happens alot when pulling.



The thing with the rampage list that makes it tricky is that when you are pulling to many rampage mobs the puller will get on the rampage list. The rampage mob is of course usually rooted and the puller will bring the mobs back to camp. He will then get healed and the healer will get on rampage list. Then he will step into the AE bard song and the bard song will get added to rampage. Thus the most common people to be rampaged are bards and clerics. Of course if the mob isn't rooted the bards and healers still get on rampage cause bard has a song on MT and clerics heal MT before other mellee attack often times. To fix this you can do several things. I think the best is to memblur/atone the mob while your rampage tanks are throwing stuff at the mob. But there are other ways. /shrug




</p>

10-17-2002, 10:35 PM
I'm not at the level to be rampage tanking, and now never will be as I cancelled my accounts today and will likely just fuddle around with my necro until they run out.

But what was the problem with monks doing this? If the MT spot is still a warrior, and then most efficient person for the rampage tank was a monk, wtf is the problem with that? Didn't it just get a lot harder for guilds to drop these big mobs now that they don't have monk to do this? Seems to me that the plate classes that are all for this nerf maybe gained another secure spot with an two-letter acronym, and shot themselves in the foot at the same time because they're still not going to be as good at it as we were.



Mala

Ex-55 monk (Bristlebane)


</p>

10-17-2002, 11:21 PM
Sure you are! Remember the giant tadpole in warrens? I forgot his name lol, but he actually rampages. Hillarious to see a green mob rampaging me. Now if noobs actually fought there that would be such a fun surpise. Actually, more mobs should rampage at lower lvls. Will help weed out idiots at lower lvls.


<a href=http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=139385>Sionistic Triplefist</a>

58 Monk

Veeshan
</p>

10-18-2002, 04:41 AM
another reason that monks tank rampage a lot is because they pull, and that puts them on the rampage list unless you want to mess around blurring or whatever.


Mirross

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Fopoodzo
10-18-2002, 04:43 AM
<blockquote>Quote:<hr> Sure you are! Remember the giant tadpole in warrens? I forgot his name lol, but he actually rampages. Hillarious to see a green mob rampaging me. Now if noobs actually fought there that would be such a fun surpise. Actually, more mobs should rampage at lower lvls. Will help weed out idiots at lower lvls. <hr></blockquote>



Hehe that big tadpole is pretty tough. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">


</p>

Arlos
10-18-2002, 04:52 AM
1 thing here, Rampage isn't just 1 hit, I've been hit by as many as 5 hits in one rampage round on a quadding warrior mob. (triple attack obviously worked, and offhand hit twice) Also, there is one case where the person with primary aggro on the mob (ie, 1st place on the hate list) WILL also be hit by rampage. That's when there's only 1 person on the hate list, such as when you're pulling the thing. (Trust me, I've been rampaged by enough Eoms that I've pulled to know this QUITE well.) I realize that's a bit nit-picky, but if we're trying for accuracy here...



Basically, the very fact that the rampage list is not really actually tied to the main hate list is why we're the best rampage tanks. (Well, rogues could do it too, I suppose, as could rangers on something where jolt/cinder jolt lands all the time) Also, the fact that we can stonestance frequently and can feign if we get low HP until a heal lands, with a good chance of getting right back onto the rampage list when we stand. Note: I HAVE seen many cases where feigning causes rampage aggro to move to the next person on the rampage list and stay there. So, it can bounce around some.






-Arlos the Disciple

Legacy of Steel



http://www.legacyofsteel.net/gallery/categories/Legacy_of_Steel_Images/Dadas_Art/media/arlos.jpg </a></p>

10-18-2002, 06:20 AM
Yes, i've successfully (or not, since i didn't want to) lost rampage with an FD several times.



I actually read on the bard boards that rampage has been changed and that it's based on hate, but this is incorrect. I was RT on a named in VT last night (our first named there, zone is still fun atm . . ) and i died to an add thanks to low-health aggro, got rezzed, and boom back on rampage.



I'm assuming that if you feign and get the low-chance to "blur" the mob of your presence then you also get blurred from the rampage list.



I assume everyone knows what i mean, but in case you don't. . . on mobs of level 32 or under, FD is a complete memblur on them. On mobs over level 32, the mob will not forget you until it's reset. . . however you have a chance that it will forget you completely, before it resets.


Mirross

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10-18-2002, 06:52 AM
The mem-blur on successful feign may be true, but even it is not certain. Rampage tanking CT and Dain, I've memblurred totally, stood up and con'd warmly/kindly. But then their next rampage round still hit me although I had done nothing to reagro, and as soon as it did I was threaten again.


[60 Grandmaster] Sensei Gekk Ko <Familjen>

I don't want the world, I just want your half.</p>

10-18-2002, 09:00 AM
Anyone have anything to add as far as coh is concerned? CoH seems to wipe you from the rampage list, but zoning out does not. On our last 2 tmax fights I pulled him. First fight I got CoH and didnt take any rampage. Last Tmax fight I got him all the way to WL zone, zoned out and back, and got took rampage the whole fight.



Any firsthand experience? Granted on the first fight, I feigned before I got CoHed, so that possibly could have wiped me from rampage, but I'm willing to bet that CoH removes you from the rampage list.



Edit: Btw, with raid buffs I have about 1200 AC and 5400hps and I rampage tanked Tormax just fine. I avoided alot of hits, but he rampaged a few times in a row which got me low on health but I had a cleric to keep me healed. Being crippled, he didnt rampage that much. Monks can definetly still be rampage tanks for Tormax/Vindi/RC/Dagarn type mobs but as far as Ssra and VT mobs the other monks will have to answer that.


Kadd (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=215446)
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<a
>Tholuxe Paells</a></p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub35.ezboard.com/ulammfallaway.showPublicProfile?language=EN>Lamm Fallaway</A> at: 10/18/02 5:05:57 am