Parse result of Monk Deffence before/after Nerfage

Target:Level60 NPC that hits 177dmg(max) / 61dmg(min)

Before nerf, average taken hit was 108dmg, after nerf 114dmg.



Target:Level62 NPC that hits 177dmg(max) / 61dmg(min)

Before nerf, average taken hit was 105dmg, after nerf 111dmg.



That's it. Less than 10 % more taken damage?

I feel like getting 50 % more damage though, can be post-nerf syndrome...





Roatus Blackhowling (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=19382), the Emissary of War

Guild:Silent Redemption (http://www.silentredemption.org)

Brell Serilis server


</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub35.ezboard.com/uroatusbh.showPublicProfile?language=EN>RoatusBH</A> at: 10/16/02 9:25:06 am

thanks roatus...



i think most people are feeling the post patch syndrom too... and that crushing sound from max hit, really doesent help much.


Frenzy Style

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Roatus, what's your level & AC?


</p>

click on 'roatus blackwing'



its his magelo profile which includes all the info you asked for.



btw he's 60 with 1501 unbuffed ac


Frenzy Style

60 Drunken Grand Samurai Ninja Master

<a href=http://home.attbi.com/~eqmaximus/brell/ target=_blank> Brell Serilis
</a>

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[Fatal]

he's lvl 60 with 1500 ac





*Edit -we must have been typing it at the same time.


http://amichi.not.net/~polyneices/Ramsus.gif
Ramsus (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=13934) </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub35.ezboard.com/ufatal67.showPublicProfile?language=EN>Fatal67</A> at: 10/16/02 9:43:33 am

ok, but how does this par with a



53 human monk

937 ac

1024 atk

1789 hp



22% haste


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<font size=1>53 monk</font>
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[Glaydor]

prob means dig out the ky


</p>

[Savanti]

Which his magelo does not tell us if that's what he had BEFORE the patch when he parsed those figures.



I'd like to know Buffs used before, and after



How many fights were endured



What the results are against Blue, Green, Light Blue mobs also.



Until I see that information this is inconclusive.



Figures with 1200ac and 1000ac would be more appropriate for the "norm".



Also were items used that had Modifiers IE 2% to block, 10% dodge, etc.



Magelo is a magelo, nothing more, nothing less, I often find monks change out armor during fights depending on what the need is, IE resist, Modifiers, Right click effects, etc.



Definetly need MORE info on this.


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<blockquote>Quote:<hr> Which his magelo does not tell us if that's what he had BEFORE the patch when he parsed those figures.<hr></blockquote>



Chances are he took this right before the patch, and right after, doubt he had a difference in gear.



<blockquote>Quote:<hr> I'd like to know Buffs used before, and after<hr></blockquote>



I'm sure he would have listed them if relevant.



<blockquote>Quote:<hr> How many fights were endured<hr></blockquote>



Doesn't really matter, only the length of data. (he could have tanked the same mob for an hour straight)



<blockquote>Quote:<hr> What the results are against Blue, Green, Light Blue mobs also.<hr></blockquote>



Mobs roughly my level are all I care about. And chances are he doesn't have parse data for every mob from 1-60.



<blockquote>Quote:<hr> Also were items used that had Modifiers IE 2% to block, 10% dodge, etc.<hr></blockquote>



That wouldn't impact the average hit. Only how often.



<blockquote>Quote:<hr> Magelo is a magelo, nothing more, nothing less, I often find monks change out armor during fights depending on what the need is, IE resist, Modifiers, Right click effects, etc.<hr></blockquote>



When you have gear like his, you don't swap gear, unless its to proc and swap your primal.



<blockquote>Quote:<hr> Definitely need MORE info on this. <hr></blockquote>

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> Until I see that information this is inconclusive.<hr></blockquote>



The only info that would really be relevant is the duration of the parse data. Other than that, he provided all we NEED. He could just clarify to make the numbers move conclusive.






Dainin (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=696)


Human Grandmaster

Servant of Quellious

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</a> </p>

Sorry .. Ive posted the same reply in 4 posts so far .. but all similar relevance:



I logged in to just try a brief test of the monk nerfs ... I'll know more after VT tonight .. but as it looks for soloing .. it appears as tho I feared may be correct 8-(



Mid-lvl and high lvl NON-uber guil monks are reporting they can no longer solo, inc most light blus ... sort of crippling the mid-lvl monks ... but here's the bad thing imho:



1 - lvl 60 monk fighting next to me from non-uber guild 100+aa, had to FD off pulling 1 shroom starting 100% health with single Aeg. He told me after he could normally solo 1 shroom np and ended up about 50% health. He was pissed and logged .. so no telling if this was just a bad run or not.



2 - I had group Aeg and my self buffs running ... solo'd 10 shrooms in a row, no down time, one after the other .. ended 100% health 8-( .. I went down to 94% health during my lowest fight. I was running 5700hp, 1466 ac during the fight test. It may be different in VT tonight



But if this is an indication of what happened ... it will truely suck for mid-lvl, and non-uber guild monks .. and have almost the opposite effect as was intended ... Im waiting to hear how FoH monks and Kung (high lvl monk on Povar) report back thier findings on high end conent, as mine was only a quick test.




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</p>

I'd like for the results to be a little more extended and the calculations you used to get those numbers, theres a big difference in getting hit 100 times for 108 damage before patch and say 130 times for 114 damage after patch, thats *not* a less than 10 percent increase. But then if you took total damage divided by number of hits, well these results are promising. Could you maybe post the formula you used or TOTAL average damage taken per fight?


<center>Chingon Cabron (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=151913)

Monk of the 60th Chamber

Brell Serilis</center></p>

Once i can get on il go and try solo GM glox...the quest version...i used to do it every time i ran through cab...and allways took 50% roundabouts dmg after mend and stonestance to start fight at 52 with no buffs and average monk gear....we will see now (btw i have no gear to swap arround..allways wear the same while soloing mele)



il edit and post results here



Hope hes still soloable for the Tyn shackle...it would hurt a ton of iky/hum monks not to be able to solo him


</p>

I doubt they nerfed our avoidance too.


-Korph




<a href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=308735">http://gjband.com/Sig.jpg
Level 51 Disciple</a></p>

I logged 25 battles with Goranga Gatherers both pre and post patch. Am a level 60 monk, have CS1 and CA1. AC was sitting around 1272 for these tests.



Net result, average hit increased by 10%. Avoidance increased a bit as well, though typically I've found greater variance in avoidance than in average hits so take this with a grain of salt.



Your mileage may vary.

Shae






</p>

Basically the nerf can be summed up as followed.



A hidden reduction in AC of between 100 and 200 points. We'll know more in time exactly how much.



This means that a 1200AC monk will perform like a 1050AC monk (lets go for the middle value).



As we know, a 1500AC monk is miles above the level needed for most mobs ATK. So they won't even notive. Monks who are just past the top level and fully mitigating the mobs they are fihgting will get hit hard. (Irontail's anecdotal evidence confirms this.



Monks are destroyed UNLESS they have the uber loots which were supposedly at the heart of this nerf. The target hasn't been hit and mainstream and casual players are really taking it hard. Without lube. Ubers escape as is Verant's wont.


</p>

Ubers escape on low-ATK mobs.



How are uber players doing in CT?



How are uber players doing on raid level mobs compared to tanks?




</p>

Maybe i'm missin somethin....but were i an uber monk in uber guild fighting some hardcore mob, i dont imagine myself getting hit much. If i'm wrong in this, some uber monk please correct me, but the idea of a main tank is that the main tank gets the hits, not anyone else



Pullin i guess would be a different aspect....here i have little practice casue i've never had to pull any hardcore mobs, or any mobs for that matter.




<center>
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Wakha Mohle
Tzeq DelMiedo</center></p>

Imo Raid life for monks will change very little. While pulling places like VT i don't get hit much at all, when i do its generally in a casting/FD battle with mobs and have to run around like a freak to life anyway. Or pulling th ings like Eoms just typically hit Stonestance as the mob gets to guild. On exp groups if there is a slower again i don't think much will change. Soloing maybe a problem so far i have tested dark blues with little damage taken, and level 60 taskmasters in ssra unslowed but it seemed pretty similar to how it was before. I did not parce any damage but it feels somewhat the same. I DO notice max hits when they scroll on my screen hehe, but that could be more paranoia than anything.



So far from what i see i can deal with it, but give me a day lol, and i may be bitchin!


<a href=http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=92011>Rika Frostheart of Hoss, Druzzil Ro</a></p>

On big mobs such as Aten ha ra you might get on rampage or when a tank bites it before the next tank steps up, but for the most part you dont really ever get hit for an extended amount of time. All this change appears to have done is make it harder for monks not into the bigguild scene. I played for few hours today solo'd Fg shrooms same as before the patch. No down time, never been into the numbers like some of you people just log on and play try to have fun. This patch hit the average monk hard im sure (


- Sojo
Court of Pain</p>

Just another flying cup of fuck you from Verant to the casual gamer.....



Furor made sure the cacks from his upper echelon group gotten taken care of....and beyond that they could "all eat cake" was his creedo I'm sure.



Why Verant would devalue the play experience of an entire class to placate some ubercacks from FoH is beyond me. That singular fact separated the monk nerf from the other nerfs and as such made it suspect.


Goanad


Creator of Sept 4 "The Worst Everquest Patch in History"(tm) </p>

[Chasak]

AC didn't go down alot. I went down about 30AC or so, didn't check the numbers, but i know it went down. As for dmg taken, doing slaves it was about 1 : 1 pre- to post-patch, a few fights post-patch i had higher dmg taken and then some with lower dmg taken / pre-patch it was all in all about same dmg taken from mobs.

My checked my skills and Block looked fishy with 225 points, but /shrug no idea if it went down or not


Brother Chasak Dacrazy (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=55808)
Iksar Grandmaster of Bertoxx Server

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things i cannot change; courage to change the things i can; and wisdom to know the difference."

</p>

Well. Maybe I am doing something wrong, or my Guild isn't Ubah enough to help me out.



Human 58 (almost 59) AC995 hp2305 Atk1102 (Fungi, Epic, SoM, Silver Shiverback Hide Sash 31% and 3 White Lotus items) and Cyndreela outside PoF portal used to be so easy it wasn't funny, now takes me to half health, and pet still hits me for 37+.



In LG, Guk Shaman's used to take me to 50% health, Now I can't beat one without Mend and Stonestance.



In PoF waiting for CT to spawn get aggro on Scareling, Min hit was 135 max hit 150, when they used to hit for 75 to 120.



So, please help this Not so Ubah monk.


Nalban

60th Necromancer

Master Tinkerer



Nablan

59th Monk



Trinity Alliance

Prexus
</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub35.ezboard.com/unalban.showPublicProfile?language=EN>Nalban</A> at: 10/16/02 3:32:04 pm

In solb with a monk 52 / 1025 ac:



pre nerf:

23 fights

518 hits taken

6.41 dps

28.56 average hit

1010 misses

32.76 % evasion

24.36 % defense

272 blocks

112 dodges

108 ripostes



post nerf:

80 fights

2043 hits taken

7.36 dps

35.09 average hit

1745 misses

34.6% evasion

19.59% defense

523 blocks

205 dodges

195 ripostes



PS: It looks at lower level like a decrease of 5% defense and increase of 15% in dps taken. I haven't checked yet which of block, dodge and riposte have been reduced most and the sample is very small anyway.


</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub35.ezboard.com/uakra.showPublicProfile?language=EN>akra</A> at: 10/16/02 4:19:10 pm

From 28.5 to 35 average hit is extremely severe nerf, it's a 23% reduction in mitigation on an XP MOB - and far far more than ever was warranted <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/frown.gif ALT=":(">






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Am I balanced yet ?</p>

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>

From 28.5 to 35 average hit is extremely severe nerf, it's a 23% reduction in mitigation on an XP MOB - and far far more than ever was warranted

<hr></blockquote>



The average hit is not a telling statistic as much as DPS is. Who cares if the average hit goes up 100% if you get hit 1/4 as often. From the look of things monk are taking about 13% more damage overall.



From Akra's parse:

Prenerf - 6.41 DPS

Postnerf - 7.36 DPS



These numbers mean a lot more than average hit since they factor in avoidiance as well.


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On the contrary, your DPS number is completely meaningless in this context.



What was nerfed was monks mitigation. How well you mitigate can only be measured by how hard you get hit.



So the next time you're going to pull something that really hurts, know that every smack on average will cause your hp to drop rougly 25% more than they used to.


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Am I balanced yet ?</p>

But we also need to know if our avoidance was raised to compensate. If it was raised, then we're in about the same point overall as far as DPS taken goes, but it does change a few things such as how hard it is to CH us. So knowing how much mitigation has changed is of some importance, but knowing what our overall DPS change was is even more important.


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<font size = "1">"I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!" </font></p>

That's where I'm a bit sceptical.

I don't see much in an increase of avoidance.



I'm rechecking my old logs and I can't find any instance with more than 34.x % avoidance.



If it were consistent with the 5% increase in avoidance I should find now value at around 35.5 or more which is not the case.



Any thoughts?


</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub35.ezboard.com/uakra.showPublicProfile?language=EN>akra</A> at: 10/16/02 10:23:49 pm

Avoidance wasn't raised, i'd be a donut on it or VI would have mentioned it to try and offset the PR hit from the nerf.



Someone taking a sample of a few hundred hits cannot possible know if avoidance changed.



Again VI would have no reason not to say, We gave monks a slight boost to avoidance to offset this.

They didn't say it, I don't believe they did it.






Sensei Belthos DeLint
The Defiant
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=21023 </p>

Well from my exp. And Playing around lately with north and tormax I can tell you that I get hit about as often, and I get hit a lot harder.



Raid buffed I'm around 1430 ac, with 5800ish hp. So Above average gear.



On the larger mob its a pretty large difference, I've not messed around with logs yet but I've got hundreds of fights from CT and I'll parce iet and let you guys know after the Flurry of patchs stop.



Zentix



Guildleader

Inverse Logic




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I'll be adding the results from my logs after I've collected more data, but what I saw was this:



Night before the patch, I was soloing in Grieg's End - good supply of light blues and I didn't have time to go to my usual stomping grounds of Chardok.



After 14 fights with various mobs, I was down at most 1 bub of health in each fight, and I didn't use a disc or mend.



After the patch, I tried soloing 4 mobs, and had to zone each time. I used SS and mend in all 4 encounters. The 4 mobs were all light blue, of varying melee types, and at that point, I was very concerned about the patch.





I wandered over to ML to *cough* farm some rockhopper hides for tailoring, and lo and behold, I found a goodly number of dark blue mature rockhoppers and stonegrabbers.

I annihilated these like I had done before the patch.





odd.





my conclusion:

1 - not enough info to make any conclusions.

2 - Grieg's End is a terrible zone =P

3 - I felt "lighter" than before the patch - I know I'm not the "stand-toe-to-toe-with-random-dark-blue-mob-and-own" monk that I used to be, but "feelings" aren't parsed logs, so ignore this point

4 - I have to scour all the zones to find the right combination of attack value of mob vs ZEM/xp given per mob...





happy hunting!



Xarlass, newbie monk on Fennin Ro

www.magelo.com/eq_view_pr...num=340646 (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=340646)


</p>

[Fopoodzo]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> A hidden reduction in AC of between 100 and 200 points. We'll know more in time exactly how much.



This means that a 1200AC monk will perform like a 1050AC monk (lets go for the middle value).



As we know, a 1500AC monk is miles above the level needed for most mobs ATK. So they won't even notive. Monks who are just past the top level and fully mitigating the mobs they are fihgting will get hit hard. (Irontail's anecdotal evidence confirms this.



Monks are destroyed UNLESS they have the uber loots which were supposedly at the heart of this nerf. The target hasn't been hit and mainstream and casual players are really taking it hard. Without lube. Ubers escape as is Verant's wont. <hr></blockquote>











That sounds about right.

Still collecting data, but defence seems to be down by 10-15% and avoidance is NOT raised in any way to compensate.

This was a straight out monk defence nerf.


</p>

let put it this way:



lvl 56 monk, iksar, ,AC 1090

Innage Regen 3, Fungi, T staff, epic, SBoC



in CS

Before patch: I can solo one wyvern, patch myself up bandaid to 70%, then go solo another one. So on and So forth. Mend was hardly ever touched



After patch: I had to fricking SS or sometimes Mend in order to stay in fights. Even then I had to fricking FD to regen myself some what before I go back and finish up.



this is BAD FOR US.


Edyin, 56 Mage

Jarisy, 56 Monk
</p>

Forgive my intrusion, but what about low to midlevel monks. i.e. high 40's and below? All i am seeing is how this affects the uber monks. Has any lower than 50 monks seen a decrease besides me? An example:



Before: I can solo Gornit using mend

After: I can get Gornit down to half health before I have to FD him off, and that is AFTER I have used mend.



For the records: I am a 44 iksar monk with primary of stave of shielding, secondary of Master Wu's Trance Stick. I have mid level gear, not uber dragon and plane loot.



Can someone send me an email on how to figure out the ratios? I always have my logging enabled and would like to see how bad I actually was slammed on this patch. My email is syberwired@netscape.net. Thanks in advance.



Luwang Komodo`Khan

44th Level Iksar Monk

EMarr

Guild: COTP www.cotp.org




<select name="characters" style="font-size: 12; font-family: verdana, arial; color: #008000; background-color: #000000;">

<option selected
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<A HREF=http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=145272> Luwang's Profile </A> and
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<A HREF=http://www.cotp.org> Call of the Phoenix [C.O.T.P.]</A></p></p>

Soloing Velks spiders Before & After the patch,

resulted in:

A ) No difference in Avoidance

B ) about a 12 % increase in damage taken



Was it terrible? No not really... But it is noticable...



The irony is this change was done to, "in theory" to prevent the handful of monks from being Main Tanks... When what it really does is affect every single monk who solo's...



If you don't solo much and yer not one of the Handfull who Main Tank, then it doesn't really affect you...



But if you do, it's gonna hurt more.... literally...

Mitigation AA points look like must haves now...






http://www.twilightavengers.org/sigs/Kindof.jpg
</p>

Just a suggestion, Lu.



From what ya wrote there I take it you've got your SoS in your primary hand and your Trance in the secondary?



It's my understanding that the low delay, dd proc weapon would be better for ya in your primary hand, and the higher delay, shield proc is better off in your off-hand.



Regards,



Mal






</p>

A suggestion Luwang:



Sell that Obulous Death Shroud for whatever it goes for on your server. On RN, an older server with a 'low value' economy those go for around 15k. 15k would be enough to upgrade your gear to the tune of full reinforced acryllia and you'd still have a good chunk of change in your pocket.



Slots that look like they could really use upgrading:



Feet, Legs, Wrists, Neck, Head



Slots that are ok but would be better with some +hitpoint items with similar AC



Face, ears, back, chest



Also, in response to the previous poster:



The SoS is a much better weapon in the primary hand than the trance stick, disregarding the proc on the trance stick, at all levels. I'm not sure if the SoS/Trance combo is better than Trance/SoS though.





I'm curious to see what Scalia makes of this patch as I consider her 'well equipped' for a non twink monk in the late 40's.


</p>

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> The SoS is a much better weapon in the primary hand than the trance stick, disregarding the proc on the trance stick, at all levels. I'm not sure if the SoS/Trance combo is better than Trance/SoS though.<hr></blockquote>



Unless I am missing something, he is weilding a CoT in the off-hand, not a SoS <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">



That said, for a non-twink Monk, the SoS (and especially dual SoS's) outdamages pretty much any 1HB or HTH weapon combo until you are well into your 50s. The Trance Stick is nowhere close. Of the easily obtainable 1HB weapons (defined as anything that costs less than the Adamantite Club <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> ), only the Jade Mace pulls ahead of the SoS at level 58.



So if you are going to sell that ODB, you may want to get two SoS's and a Peacebringer for 2HB and you will be all set for the next 10+ levels weapons-wise. You may even have enough money left to buy a few Acrylia Reinforced upgrades.



<blockquote>Quote:<hr> I'm curious to see what Scalia makes of this patch as I consider her 'well equipped' for a non twink monk in the late 40's.<hr></blockquote>



Well, my only post-patch experience so far has been in Kaesora, which, at 48, is a high green-light blue dungeon with a few dark blues thrown in. Last night we raided it for the HS key and got a few nice trinkets in the process.



I didn't notice much of a difference, frankly. We only had three people: a 48 Warrior, a 48 Shaman (and his dog) and me. At one point we managed to agro about 6 light blue mobs and destroyed them even without root parking. I was taking damage from adds throughout most of the fight and was down about 1+ bubble by the time we killed the last one. The Warrior was down 1+ bubble as well.



So no, I didn't feel like I was wearing paper armor, but then again, we were fighting light blues. I'll have to see how soloing and MTing in XP groups goes later this week before I can even begin to form an opinion.



Oh yes. One thing that I wanted to mention is that it has always been my experience that Monks take damage VERY unevenly, more so than other classes, probably due to high avoidance and relatively low mitigation.



One time, in my low 40s, I was soloing the Geonid tunnel in CC and had to FD on a Geo who was hitting me for close to full damage most of the fight. Thankfully, I wasn't KOS to them at the time, so I bandaged up, Mended, waited 6 minutes to regenerate health and to have Mend in reserve, then crossed my talons and attacked again. I won with 0.5 bubbles lost (!) That's on the same rock formation that had almost destroyed me just minutes earlier!



With that in mind, I think we may want to collect MUCH more data about the current Defense situation (greens, light blues, low dark blues, high dark blues, the importance of AGI, etc) before jumping to conclusion.


Scalia (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=71792) / Gluon (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=71783) on E'ci</p>

I think his Magelo is a little out of date, in his post he mentioned a SoS/Trance combo and that he is level 44, which his Magelo does not reflect.


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