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View Full Version : Dont just take something away, BALANCE us.


10-16-2002, 04:07 PM
Ok first off i want to let you all know who i am. This is my first post here on monkly. actually made an ezboard account just to post this because of how i feel about this, I'm angry inside about this whole monk "nerf" thing. I play a lvl 60 monk on Povar. Im epic, have moderate gear for not being in a huge guild. fungi, cof, ect. no AoW legs or anything.



I really dont know where to start. So ill just wing this the best i can. I agree with VI only on one thing they have stated from the start of this whole nerf situation. That being, we are not meant to be a tanking class. We are supposed to be a light armor class, we make the mobs miss us, and when they do hit us,we should take more damage than a tanking class. What i dont understand is why they decide to do this NOW. 2 years we have been like this, ever since Kunark.



The reason i point out kunark as being the starting point of all this mess ,is to me, obvious. To me this is all about Skill Caps. Please let me try to expliain this as best i can, i do not claim to know the insides of the game engine, but i do know that skill caps are one of the biggest decideing factors on hits/misses how hard you hit, how much damage you take ect. I want to bring you all back a bit further than kunark and show you what a monk was "supposed" to be. And to me the best way i can show you this is the pre-50 ability caps. I am on going to Compare pure melle classes here. hybrids really cant be figured into this because of all their other abilities. So we are talking Warrior, Monk, Rogue.



To understand this please,please forget anything you know from the release of kunark to date, i know it sounds odd, but to understand what we as Monks are supposed to be ya gotta do this In the end of this we will be back to where we are now, i promise=p .



Monks were Origanally meant to be the # 2 damage dealing melle class in the game , Behind rogues, yet well ahead of Warriors rangers ect. And Very agile, we make mobs miss, a monks ability ,Kung fu if you will (dont flame please. hehe ) We obtained our dmging abilities from 2 main things, the biggest being our skill caps, which were MUCH higher than any other melle class, and the other being flying kick , tiger claw ect. Our other 2 main ablilties were to tie up the class, make it whole, FD for pulling and mend, for instances where you need a heal but the cleric needs to heal the main tank, or on a bad pull ect. To " balance " monks, we had very restricted armor mostly leather, and that which we could wear was very low ac, and on top of that, a very harsh weight penatly for being overweight ( even more restiction to items available ) And we had low Hitpoints. another penalty not really considered back then, but it was, was bags were heavy, coin was heavy. we were the brokest class in the game. And finally, We were restricted to 1 type of fight form, hand2hand. no weapons, just fists, and the damge/dly on our fists were moderated as we lvled. No procs, no stats from either slot. We WERE "balanced"



Enter Kunark, Where the problems began.

Raise the lvl cap from 50 to 60. new race :Iksar's, a monk playable race with an AC bonus. Many new Items for every one, lots of fun, yep. Begining of the problem with monks.

First off, i would like to say that VI did a great job with the armor items for kunark, meaning the lovely 45ac cobalt BP with click heal, and the crappy 8ac Cresent Gi which was inline with what we were supposed to wear, tho imo a little less than it should have been, but still about right. There were a few items out there that we really shouldnt have been able to wear, but not enough to go nuts about. Secondly, the first problem. 1hb and 2hb availablilty to monks. i said to myself "wow, this is going to be interesting" Now please dont get me wrong, i love 1hb and 2hb its nice to get a chance to use different weapons for different situations, But the problem with that is, we were no longer bound by what our fists would allow, high dmg, high dly fists. And with this problem came the weapons 7dmg 19 dly with a proc?/ WHUT gimmie..29dmg 30 dly 120dd unresistable with up to a 12 second stun WHUT gimmie. All of the sudden, we are getting more agro than a warrior with taunt. But we just dont have the armor to tank the mobs, so we end up having to FD more, making us lose DPS. The weapons are nice and we did more damage with them ( what we are supposed to do), but we got so much agro and had to FD so much that it started to be common place in an exp group with a monk, to just let him tank, the fights were taking too long to FD all the time, suck the mana up , get a c2 and lets do this. But warriors were still the true tanks on any large encounter. Because of the desparity in HP's from all the other classes, duel weild and taunt. The weapons were what they were supposed to be, but i guess noone in VI figured in the amount of agro we would get from good dmg, low delay weapons with procs, and flying kick added in. FD is not an option here, if we do that, we lose DPS and we are not the 2nd best dmging melle in the game, but that is what was happening, but nothing was done.



The biggest problem by FAR imo were the caps they chose for the melle classes abilities. Will do my best to compare Pre-kunark, with post-kunark here. IM going to list every offensive and defensive skill cap this is gonna be long.



Monk pre 50 post 50 / Warrior pre 50 post 50

1hb 240 252 / 1hs 200 250

2hb 240 252 / 2hs 200 250

h2h 225 252 / 1h/2hb 200 250

dual 252 252 / dual 210 225

Off. 230 252 / off. 210 250

dbl att. 210 250 / dbl att. 205 245

fly kick 200 225 / kick 149 210

defense 230 252 / defense 210 252

Dodge 200 230 / dodge 140 175 (190)

riposte 200 225 / riposte 200 225

blk/prry 200 230 / parry 200 230



I Compared Warriors and monks for the simple reason that, thats what this is all aobut, us "tanking" instead of warriors. Now, what are we looking for here? This is what id like to point out...notice how the defensive abilities pretty much went up accordingly from pre50 to post 50. Yes our defense is 252 and our dodge is higher, but it doesnt make us a better tank, you need ac and at the time , we had vertually NO gear that could compare to warriors, and rightly so. The very serious problem comes in on the Offensive side of the caps, if you look close, you can see that at pre 50 we were capped 40 points ahead of warriors in some ablilites. But, when Kunark came out, warriors went up, in some cases, 50 points, where we only went up 12 (because of the 252 stat cap) What this creates is a HUGE, and i mean HUGE desparity in what the difference in damge dealt is. When your skills are higher, you miss less, and hit harder. Thats a fact, and that makes you do more damage, period.

So basically, the gap between monk # 2 and warrior #3 dmg dealing became MUCH smaller. This is something that you dont have to parse. The skills tell you this. If you take a lvl 50 warrior with the same dmg dly weapons and same haste as a lvl 50 monk, the monk will outdamage the warrior, by a very large amount, but if you take a lvl 60 warrior same dmg/dly weapons and same haste as a lvl 60 monk, the monk will still do more damage, but not anywhere near what the gap is from the 2 lvl 50's. To me that is NOT balance. SO, VI either couldnt figure out how to keep the gap in the same area, didnt notice, or did not care. I dont know which. I truly hope its the first. The only thing keeping us above them now is Flying kick, which is a lvl 30 skill that hasnt been upgraded in 3 years. And is one of the biggest reasons for how much agro we get FIX FLYING KICK , make it zero agro, put a BoC type proc to reduce agro on it, something!



So now when everyone is hitting 60 the monk class is not balanced they way we should be, We still have heavty armor restricitons, our weapons are a lil better ( so is everyone elses) . In a raid situation, the warriors gains agro and we fight, but now we are getting so much agro, from both the weapons and flying kick that we are constantly having to FD losing DPS, and because of that, in Many high end situations we are NOT the #2 dmg class, warriors are, because they are consistantly hitting the mob, while we are laying on the freaking ground. Yet nobody at VI does anything about it.



Enter velious, one of the best times i ever had playing EQ. Dragons dragons, giants oh my! And the worst screw up VI has made to the monk class. AoW, ToV, god loot. 45ac 10 to all saves all/all 0.1 ( insert slot here) In the span of a few months many monks were surpassing the AC total of a warrior. And all of the sudden a new class was born, the monk/warrior without taunt and less hp's but better over all melle skills, better taunt overtime, and most importatly much better dodge skills ( the whole reason this is happening) And the sick loot just kept on coming. 60ac 100hp legs monk only and tradable WHAT?! thats better than any peice of armor there is WTF were they thinking?? But you know we were all happy, hell yeah i been dreaming about those legs ever since i saw them on allakh. Yet not a damn thing was done. ( and hell yeah we were happy about that) as a matter of fact i dont think many of us gave it a 2nd thought, we didnt think hey this is wrong, we been waitng for some nice armor for years, and we fianlly got it! Good job VI spfft.



Enter luclin, a cool expansion, new graphics, bazaar, pretty cool, took some getting used to, but hey, gotta keep up to date. Vex thal ( gratz Triton) ssra. Nice new loot, some of it even crazier than ToV/sleepers ect. And most of it monk usable and light weight. Also, new high end content. Very high HP mobs, that take a long time to take down. Everything is going great, seems fine. please keep this in mind, vex thal loot, and ssra loot we reevaluated less than a month ago and many of the items were made even MORE powerfull and still monk usable.



In the last few days we have all heard about the "monk tank" and most ppl do not understand how this is possable, please let me explain this. When luclin came out, with the insanly high HP mobs, the most common tactic to defeat many of these mobs were the same as velious. everyone gets a god rod, even tanks, the you have even more placed on the ground. Your MONK pulls, your WARRIOR engages as the tank, mainly because he has more HP's, and that is what most ppl are used to. Warrior gains agro, he gets hit for 2000 hp;s constantly small heal the warrior, start timed CH's Engage the rest of your crew, and hope your MT doesnt fall, clerics go oom, they use rods, shamans heal the clerics so they can pick up the rods off the ground and use them as well. melle drops thier rods, same thing, and if all goes well and the heals are timed, boom 60ac legs, for your monk ect.



The monk tank



The problem with the whole situation with the warrior tanking is this, in the case of super high end mobs, dmg mitigation is almost a Mute point, because altho yes ac will matter even on a high end encounter its so small that its almost pointless to factior in, ecpecially when monk mitigation is nearly as good. Its the same thing with hitpoints The largest desparity in hitpoints between monks and warriors is maybe 3000 hp, and we are talking equally equiped, this

seams like alot, and to an everyday player that is huge, but when you consider a mob hitting you for 1-3k hp, warrior or monk or anyone else for that matter is dead in seconds. The only thing that makes a difference is the heals, and as long as the monk is getting the heals He can basically take the same amount of hits as a warror. But yet, those 3k hp difference surely should come into play right? Well yes, BUT the reason monks were getting better at tanking than warriors was because of things, 1 his mitigations was nearly the same, and 2 THE REASON ALL OF THIS IS HAPPENING DODGE!!!! untill today a warriors dodge cap was at 175, a monks was 230 that is a HUGE difference 55 points.... now in a 30 minute fight, how many more dodges would a monk get than a warrior.... well i cant really parse it, but im sure its ALOT ( considering your dodging 2000 hp smacks) And all those dodges adds up to make a bigger difference than a warriors hp's in most cases. And considering mod rods gave a raid party almost infinite mana to heal the monk, they ( just recently) started to tank a few high end mobs, because it is more efficiant. ( smarter).

That my friends is your "tanking monk". hope i made it make sense, because it sure as hell does to me.



Now, somehow verant figured this out, im hearing rumors it came from some leader of a big guild on Veeshan. but hey, no finger pointing or anything, because, honestly this situation is wrong. The saddest thing is, they didint figure this shit out themselves, wish i coulda been there for the big DOH! they cried out when they found out.



This is the worse part of it all, and this is 2 years in the making. This entire patch,damn near all of it, the whole screwed up "nerfs" is because of this. What does verant do to fix this? of course.. well, they cant really lower our Dodge cap, now can they? that would be like taking necro pets away, its what we do, we make mobs miss. So this is their plan..... OMFG you guys are gonna crap yourselves when you read this.



First, they lower Monks effective AC so we midigate our damage taken alot worse than a warrior, but they soon see that thats in no way enough becuase the high end mobs hit nearly then same as long as your over a certain ac. So the second thing they do is raise the dodge ability for a few classes, Warrior included ( PLate wearing 100+ weight classes) 15 points up to 190 lesseing the gap there, but then they see that even that isnt good enough, in a very long fight monks will still take less damage overall. So what they do next is say they are changing the High end Luclin encounters, they dont want it to be a "time sink" ( yeah right talk about blowing smoke). basically they will take alot of HP's off those mobs to make the fights go faster. So that the monks dont have the time advantage To get those dodge rolls that make us better overall. So that should fix it all right? nope, with doing that, the fights will go much faster, so it would be trivial if all the healers had infinite mana, so guess what? YUP incoming god rod nerf! They have told us one thing and have already changed it, much less mana on these high end mobs makes it a little more hard to kill them, and thats risk vs reward. Think we are done? NOPE.....Enter Manaburn!!! contrary to what you all have heard, they did NOT nerf manaburn because of the MB teams running around killing all the dragons of velious. ( this is a good side effect tho, im sure they were concered about that, but had already said they had no intention of changing it so they felt tied to that, kill 2 birds with 1 stone wow) The real reason they Nerfed Manaburn is because....get this.... thats right,, since they are lowering the amount of Hp's on the high end encounters of luclin to offset the Dodge ablility of monks, they couldnt have 10 wizards in a guild all manaburn it dead from 75% life now could they? so they put a donals BP type effect on mobs after 1 Burn and make the spell buff that cannot take hold last for 1 minute.. So to not trivialize all these mobs and have them fall in 1 min. To me this is the most pathetic thing i have ever seen, and to meThis is SO painfully obvious. And then they try to cover it all up, say Hey, we are changing the way the luclin encounters work we dont want you sitting there for 30 minutes, isnt this great? and throw a few bones at us like raising ranger defense and "fixing" beastlord pets .



All of this becuase of a skill called DODGE OMFG. Back to the balancing thing, yeah they need to fix us, but not like this they need to figure something out, its not retroactivly nerfing 5000 items. Its not lowering everyone elses abilities, and they really cant raise ours now can they?

All i know is our DPS need to go way up, the amount of agro we get needs to go way down. But do you really think they will let us get more DPS now?? they lowered the high end encounters HP's,That would make them trivial wouldnt it? good lord i dont know, they sure got us good this time. Guess im gonna play my wizard again, DOH damnit MB nerf hmmm guess ill twink a ranger...and oh yeah, they are #2 dmg dealers at times with that bow stuff (which is cool you should be able to do that, but our dmg should be much higher, so you really shouldnt pass us in the first place)



Oh and one more thing, b4 you start respoding about how monks cant gain agro.... We still do more damage, flying kick is damn near the taunt button, and slap 2 SoD's in my hands and im pretty sure ill outtank damn near any warrior. maybe not AS good, but close enough to hold agro on a god.



Expect many patches and fixes to this whole thing, bet they are kicking themsleves for that " same spell stacking thing right now"



Well im done, yes it was long, and yeah i got kinda mean at the end, but thats how i see it, it all makes ALOT of sense. If you agree with me, great! If you dont great! we all are entitled to our opinions, and i would love to read the feedback this creates. positive or negative.



Sorry if the melle comparison is messed up, but if you would like to check it out, go to www.castersrealm.com if you dont know the caps.



60 Monk povar




</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub35.ezboard.com/uusagi07.showPublicProfile?language=EN>usagi07</A> at: 10/16/02 12:12:09 pm

10-16-2002, 04:25 PM
Well said.



Do not forget Block, a skill we get that is much better than Warriors' parry.


-Korph




<a href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=308735">http://gjband.com/Sig.jpg
Level 51 Disciple</a></p>

10-16-2002, 04:35 PM
Very well-reasoned post. A few random thoughts:



1) The proliferation of godly large raid-class ALL/ALL items was a major screwup by SonyEQ. Sure, I get frustrated seeing all the uber armor/chain class items without monk on them, but as you point out, it's balanced. Even the int-caster loot with higher AC than monkly gear is understandable (especially since a caster in melee is still just a sticky mess on the ground in high end encounters, AC or no). What breaks things is all the ALL/ALL uber items.



2) Every change to the game balance has rippling changes. The current fix, intended for very high-end players (who will be primary audience of PoP), could very possibly change the desirability of solo vs. group for all monks. That would suck -- I know that I have kept with my monk because it is one of the few solo-capable melee classes. (I usually only have an hour here or there to play.) If soloing is made much more difficult for my monkey, I'd be really pissed.



3) Dodge isn't the largest differentiator between monks and other melees (other than BSTs). No, it's block. If you parse logs, block has about twice the effectiveness per skill point as parry (or riposte or dodge). My lowbie rogue and ranger alts would give their left nut for block.



4) SonyEQ needs to throw us a bone -- something to at least partially counterbalance the defence nerf. I'm already a bit cheesed off about the lack of any high-impact skills that I've seen advertised for PoP so far. Certainly nothing to compare with the spell/skill enhancements of casters (or rogues!). Warriors seem to be back in SonyEQ's good graces as well.



Just my 2cp, and thanks again for the thought-provoking post.



Feodor Dustyoasski

54th Level Reduced to a Crawl Getting to 55

The Seventh Hammer


</p>

10-16-2002, 04:38 PM
Ok, I was TOTALLY with you until the part where you said that Manaburn and Mod-Rods were nerfed in order to find a way to let Monks get less Dodge checks during a Luclin Uber fight. That's out of control.



Mod Rod 2 was basically a disposable Manastone. Once a mob was pinned and your MT/CH rotation set up, it would take an act of God or of utter stupidity for your raid to fail. Now, you can concievably run your clerics out of mana. OMG what a concept.



Manaburn was nerfed because of the relatively low hp totals of PoP mobs. If what I am hearing is correct, you will see mobs with the hitpoints of a Vindi, but with the melee output of Statue + Idol + AoW combined. Bet on it.



It is far too early to tell what the far-reaching effects of these changes will be. Don't fall victim to knee-jerk reactionism. The current crew at VI has done a pretty bang-up job of attempting to right the ship after the Dev staff got gutted last year. Have faith.


Kromagnon (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=65044) - Warlord
The Elitists and Vagrants (http://www.evguild.org)</p>

10-16-2002, 04:44 PM
One Huge Error herel.....

bags were not heavy pre-kunark remember sewing kits were not always 3.0 weight.... man that was a nerf to me i am stilll mad about that one...





Ylime 53 monk ...


</p>

10-16-2002, 09:37 PM
the original poster is interest. but to respond to a response



"4) SonyEQ needs to throw us a bone -- something to at least partially counterbalance the defence nerf. I'm already a bit cheesed off about the lack of any high-impact skills that I've seen advertised for PoP so far. Certainly nothing to compare with the spell/skill enhancements of casters (or rogues!). Warriors seem to be back in SonyEQ's good graces as well.'



now your feeling like a rogue/warrior imo. you put "or rogues" what did you see in PoP for us? the proc poisons are junk. poisons are historical garbage. the best one is snare. after that what do we get when we level? permission to do AA .



i agree with the sentiment on a broader level. i think the framework of leveling/AA favors casters who get the most impact by dinging.



that said i think your feeling what alot of warriors rogues feel. were specialized by nothing near overpowered. we have a complete lack of utility between us and it has an obvious cause:

we're the only 3 classes without casting.



over the expansions/patches verant has slowly ate into the effect of our specialization.



i mean look at todays patch. if they were going to change every class except rogues tanking ability they should have rebalanced it and reinforced warriors specialization. But look what they did instead. They pushed up paladins tanking skills towards warriors. nevermind that paladins cast rez/CE/group heal/self haste/significant hp buff and get new spells every level post 60. warriors do what besides tank? if there was a tragedy this patch it was that.



To summarize while i think there is a real issue with the way verant is treating the 3 non casting classes relative to the casting class. i dont think monks/warriors/rogues stand out as one superior to the other. we all 3 suffer the same at the hands of the new system of spells at ding you can AA now.








</p>

10-16-2002, 10:12 PM
.. after this nerf is to remove the pointless class AA abilities that only work when we're tanking (ie. the riposte-based ones) and give us AAs that increase our damage when we're not tanking. If we're not supposed to be tanking, why is so much of our class AA devoted to tanking-related improvements?


</p>

10-16-2002, 10:13 PM
here it is plain and simple, its bullshit to nerf our class because a few uberguilds have monks good enough to be tanks, the solution NERF THE HIGHEND GEAR then weaker monks wont suffer, i felt i was too weak as it is with 200k in gear... i could hardly solo <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)">


<a href="http://www.gaijindesign.com/lawriemalen/jedi" target="_blank">http://www.gaijindesign.com/lawriemalen/jedi/hansolo.jpg
:: how jedi are you? ::</a>

"I HAVE EXISTED FROM THE MORNING OF THE WORLD, AND I SHALL EXIST UNTIL THE LAST
STAR FALLS FROM THE HEAVENS. ALTHOUGH I HAVE TAKEN THE FORM OF ENOSHI OKAMA,
I AM ALL MEN, AS I AM NO MAN, AND SO I AM A GOD. I AM A GOD."</p>

10-17-2002, 12:42 AM
very well said...



So because a monk can hold aggro on the planes against a God, Verant nerfs an entire class that includes the low and mid level soloing monk that wants to trash orcs? Geezus.



Time to roll up a ranger, I guess ("Ranger motto: GET IT OFF ME! GET IT OFF ME!!").






</p>

10-17-2002, 01:03 AM
Am i the only one that listens to the rangers? One of them here said many times, unless your guild has positioned the mob for you, archery isnt gonna help much.



oh and usagi, you are a god /bow


<a href=http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=139385>Sionistic Triplefist</a>

58 Monk

Veeshan
</p>

10-17-2002, 01:29 AM
any decent guild will find it easy for their rangers to use Archery in most raid situations


<center>http://www.boomspeed.com/sethion/sethionsig.jpg</center> (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=386215)</p>

Ganjin
10-17-2002, 02:33 AM
Terrible.

They don't want to change stats on all that all/all gear?

Simple, just change the items of ac>xx from 0.1wt to 8.0wt.



Monks can still wear some of it, but gotta watch that weight so not too many pieces at a time. Might even make some of the monk specific items useful again.



Everyone else that has it on? No big deal, weight is the main concern of monks anyway.

Wouldn't that be easier to take than changing the class as a whole?



Just from reading the preliminary opinions (bias as they may be) it seems the segment of the class they were targeting is only minimally affected. Lower and mid levels with less ac seems to be getting hammered.



Not making any judgements until more data is collected, but really, wouldn't targeting the problem be more effective in the long run?



yep, one more opinion on the table.






<a href=http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=319000> Magelo </a></p>

Fopoodzo
10-17-2002, 06:21 AM
<blockquote>Quote:<hr> So because a monk can hold aggro on the planes against a God, Verant nerfs an entire class that includes the low and mid level soloing monk that wants to trash orcs? Geezus <hr></blockquote>





That's VI for you. Swing the nerf bat widely, hit everyone EXCEPT the target.


</p>

10-17-2002, 06:42 AM
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>

Terrible.

They don't want to change stats on all that all/all gear?

Simple, just change the items of ac>xx from 0.1wt to 8.0wt.



Monks can still wear some of it, but gotta watch that weight so not too many pieces at a time. Might even make some of the monk specific items useful again.

<hr></blockquote>



They did, at least they tried.

Increased weight of major items in VT which monk could use,

and at the same time they added low weight low AC armor with ATK up effect.

Good example is Leg guard of shadow, ac22 HP100 fx 50atk junk from Aten Ha Ra

or ac13 hp70 atk20 crap bracer from AHR blob.



I think they wanted to force Monks to choose more offensive less deffensive items

to fit us in their twisted "vision", or just to satisfy the idiotic little sorry punk ass warrior who bitched and hated monks much.

Of course it didn't work as they thought.

Even with more weight, I believe many monks, include myself, insisted to use high AC high HP items.



So finaly, they decided to nerf defense table itself so we could have no choice.

And of course, those heavy armors aren't changed back to old weight.

Monks (belong to big giuld in this case) still need to suffer with weight limit after such big nerf.



This is my perspective about this nerf.





Roatus Blackhowling (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=19382), the Emissary of War

Guild:Silent Redemption (http://www.silentredemption.org)

Brell Serilis server


</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub35.ezboard.com/uroatusbh.showPublicProfile?language=EN>RoatusBH</A> at: 10/17/02 2:48:06 am

10-17-2002, 06:47 AM
Daesun is the Ranger you're probably referring to.



I've found pretty much all her posts claiming that rangers have it rough, archery is only good when the mob isn't touching a wall, etc, etc....



He/she seems to stress all the inconveniences of playing a Ranger, and downplay their obvious impressive firepower. She'll also throw how many AA points you have to get to get AM3/EQ, like 40 something, but tell me another class that doesn't play to get 40+ AA points anyway? As if that's some astronomical number that most people/classes will never attain.



She's very pro nerf-monk too, her obviously being a monk expert, being a lvl 60? Ranger and all.



At least this is my impression of her based on the numerous pots I've read of hers.



She's got a "Rangers have good stuff, but...." for anything good you say about rangers.


</p>

10-17-2002, 06:48 AM
What would the effect of raising the weight of high-end items have on all the other classes?? none! so the warrior that has it can no longer carry 74 lbs of loot, only 30, big deal. Summon a few bags, you are set. To the monks that have it, they drop AC like mad. To all the other 99.99% of monks that dreamt of having it before it got hypothetically nerf, nothing changes, and everyone is happy. Heck, any guild that had monks with it can STILL drop the same mobs, just they have to let the warrior tank now, which is the whole point of this anyways. At least make 200 FD skill let you FD aggro off if we are no longer gonna be able to take the blows, plz.


</p>

10-17-2002, 06:51 AM
I need to type faster


</p>

10-17-2002, 08:29 AM
what upsets me is that rogues are the best melee and warriors are the best absorbers of damage... what are we... the best pullers? Verant has come out saying they hate pulling.... so what was our advantage to non casters? Pallies are best damage against mobs that are undead now with slay3, Rangers best against anything they can hit with AM3/endless quiver? And SKs can pull like us, ok not quite as well <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> . So what makes us stand out from the rest?


</p>

Fopoodzo
10-17-2002, 09:41 AM
The need to up damage by the same percent that they decrease overall defence.



Otherwise (non-uber) monks are just not very damaging rogues.


</p>

10-17-2002, 09:48 AM
They need to up damage output by more than the nerf we took to mitigation if you think about it...we always put out more DPS than we take...if you up the DPS we take by 10-15 percent, then you have to up the DPS we do by 15-20 percent at least






</p>

10-17-2002, 10:05 AM
I agree with your post. altho the manburn /modrod thing could go either way...but I'm sure there effects and how they relate to the ordeal are all true..regardless of monks initiating there change or not.You don't have to be a genius to see this

first they have said in the past monks were balanced...before this nerf they admitted its the uber gear that created any imbalance





Monk normal gear = balanced class



Monk Uber gear = possibly to strong a class



NERFED Monk Uber gear = balanced again



NERFED Monk normal gear = broken class.....Less than the once balanced class... OR nolonger balanced



Its a shame because after checking out some of the stats you guys have you truly are rocking ...I have a 54 monk with epic and I'm just sick at the changes made..I'm in the average high end class 1000-1100 AC depending on setup and 1800 -2k hp I can no longer solo anything really worth it ..I'm not going to kill light blues .



I started the monk cause of what it was ...much like wizards chose manaburn for what it was...they gave back AA points ...I've yet to see any offers of anything to make up my last years work .

I don't suspect I will ever gain the gear to make my monk soloable again ..<--- reason I chose this guy ...I have a active life a little girl who is my world I normally get and hour or 2 at best a day during the week to get a little exp its just not doable to think in an hour and half I can travel ...get group ...kill much and then get out of said place before I need to log here again Verant raises the bar...if you want to enjoy our game we must Jump thru THIS hoop and get THIS gear..



they raised the cost of EQ not long ago we spend more money now....to me they just raised the Cost again only now we will need to become more Hardcore..which I refuse to do I'm afraid I enjoy my real life to much for that =(

sorry VI you've really let me down on this one






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10-17-2002, 11:21 AM
The following is an email I am sending to Verant today. I think its reasonable to ask for something to rebalance our class, don't you?



"I am writing to express my unhappiness with your recent change to the monk class. I understand that decreasing a monk's ability to mitigate damage was to discourage them from playing a "tanking" role. However I do think it's unfair to take away their damage mitigation without giving them something else to compensate for it in return, especially since every other melee in the game was strengthened in defense mitigation or dodge caps at the same time. I feel this leaves monks "underpowered" in relation to the other melee classes.



I propose giving the monk class an increase of offense by raising their damage caps and their frequency of hitting for max damage. I feel this would compensate the class for what many feel is a weakening of their defense while other classes have gotten stronger in defense. If the monk's role is to be an offensive one then please raise his offense to balance out lowering his defense. I hope you will give serious consideration to my suggestion."




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Sibian
10-17-2002, 11:38 AM
WoW!!!!

someone with 1 post who didnt come out of the gate acting like a goober.

Very well said and written.




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