View Full Version : So you want to be a Jedi....SW:G
Lenardo
01-31-2003, 02:16 PM
from todays FaQ update
6.17 How do Jedi work?
Your main character does not become a Jedi. Rather, the actions of your main character can unlock an additional character slot which is Force-sensitive.Characters created in this additional slot can then advance through the Jedi skills as well as any of the other skills in the game. Each player account allows for only one potential Jedi slot and the mysterious method to unlock it won't be the same for every player.
6.18 How are you going to keep Jedi rare?
Jedi characters suffer permadeath unless they reach Jedi Master status. You do not lose the Jedi character slot, but the character in that slot is deleted. Upon reaching Jedi Master status, Jedi become "blue glowies" rather than permadying when they die. In order to compensate for deaths that are completely out of control of the player (such as ones caused by network latency) each Jedi will be able to die a couple times before death is permanent. The life of a Jedi is extraordinarily difficult, and successfully making it all the way to Jedi Master should be considered the most difficult challenge in the game.
Brother Lenardo Draconis
64th level GrandMaster of the Celestial Fists
The First Seal
The Nameless
Magelo ('http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=329805')
Monk Website ('http://www.monkly-business.com')
</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub147.ezboard.com/bmonklybusiness43508.showUserPublicProfile?gid=len ardo>lenardo</A> at: 1/31/03 10:17:52 am
Lenardo
01-31-2003, 02:19 PM
my comment..
SWEET... Jedi here i come.
Brother Lenardo Draconis
64th level GrandMaster of the Celestial Fists
The First Seal
The Nameless
Magelo ('http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=329805')
Monk Website ('http://www.monkly-business.com')
</p>
I wasnt planning on being a Jedi anyway, but it kind of sucks that your main wont have the ability to become a Jedi, unless you were to start over as the force sensitive char fulltime. This kind of wastes all the time you spent on your main.
</p>
So wait, does that mean its not SCS? And I agree, these things that sound cool now are going to be major PITA down the road.
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Lenardo
01-31-2003, 03:24 PM
limited mcs - on the ONE server that your main/whichever server you got force sensitive on - that and ONLY that server you get an additional slot to make your "jedi" - so instead of 10 you get 11 character slots.
and i'll ditch my old main to become a fs main, it'll be fun and limiting at the same time.. problem is i play lenardo....what do i name my jedi?- if i ever become one.
also the dev said most people won't even make it to Padawan state never might "blue glowie".
Brother Lenardo Draconis
64th level GrandMaster of the Celestial Fists
The First Seal
The Nameless
Magelo ('http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=329805')
Monk Website ('http://www.monkly-business.com')
</p>
wow, thats cool
My question once you are a jedi master you can still only die a couple of times and then you can still lose the Jedi Master Char?
EDIT:upon re-reading I got it
another thing it would be kind of cool to be a jedi Master for the simple reason that as a "blue glowy" I am pretty sure you won't take damage so you will be able to go get your body in realitive safety thus saving you money for insuring Items
Been thinking about this Perma-death alot... that means you have to be completely secretive about your character being force sensitive..
If you tell anyone cept maybe a Real Life Friend it probly won't take long for many people to get that info then you can expect to Die very fast.. Not just from a griefers point of veiw but also the role players that are in the empires faction
Think about how limiting it is going to be til you get to the master status
you are in a "zone" or what ever they will have if you see anyone around while you are fighting to train your skills, you will pretty much have to RUN you ass off so they can't see who you are or see you using Force abilities to kill the creature
the only good thing about any of it is in theory you won't be perma-killable til you get Jedi Status, so you can get your stats up, and if you die and the char is killed and char deleted then you will probly be able to pick another name so people (the Empire) won't be able to find you as easy
</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub147.ezboard.com/bmonklybusiness43508.showUserPublicProfile?gid=ryu masters85264@monklybusiness43508>Ryumasters85264</A> at: 2/1/03 1:39:42 am
Fopoodzo
02-01-2003, 08:56 AM
I have to say I'm impressed, that sounds like a very good way to impliment Jedi.
Only problem is I'm probably going to have to try it now, was going to avoid it as I was convinced it was going to be a jedi nightmare. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">
</p>
Hmmm interesting.. Not sure about it yet.. Still digesting the info... So they will allow another slot. To me that doesn't make sense with how resistant they were to another slot.
</p>
Cybsled
02-02-2003, 01:04 AM
This is a pretty elegant solution...
A) it allows the player to "test" if they like being a Jedi or not without risking their main
B) The hardcore mode will keep newbies away and help simulate the idea that jedi are rare and hated
Kinda cool IMO...it FORCES the players not to blab their mouths off or show off....at least until they're masters.
I wonder about the death thing though...I mean, if a zone crashes or some f'd up bug happens and you die, I wonder how they will treat the situation. I cant recall how many times I died in early EQ to bugs and such.
</p>
The frustrating part is the Dev's won't say with any certainty wether once you reach the "Master" Status how the Permadeath effects you
"Jedi characters suffer permadeath unless they reach Jedi Master status"
It says it ends at Master status and you become the "Blue Glowies"
Thats fine and well if that means once you are a blue glowy you can over a certain time period you can go get your self cloned again, or what ever they would do to get their body back.
If it is anything less than that, than it is permadeath
As a blue glowy if your game is limited wether it to talking to Force Sensitive people, and possibly go float around for fun then it is the same as perma death cause the only way to play as you once were is to delete the Blue Glowy and try and get back to Master status and not die this time...
2 Ti 4:7
</p>
Ganjin
02-02-2003, 02:32 PM
Permadeath for the force sensitive wouldn't be that bad if every Boba Fett wannabe risked the same thing when trying to kill em.
It's not that unreasonable to think a jedi could put the force whammy on someone tryin to kill them to make sure they don't come back.
Other than that, unless you give jedi a way to use an alias or change names someone will start a serverwide witch hunt with no way to hide. Heh, when was the last time you saw someone's real name floating above thier heads?
/shrug, good idea for a challenging character. It just seems a bit too open to grief.
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Yeah, this perma-deth thing seems like it is going to be more trouble than its worth. The Dev's had said numerous times they want Jedi to be rare and have a tough career, and with the permadeth and pvp rules it seems to me like the Devs just don't really want people to play Jedi. Granted, the Force power skill tree is most likely going to be grossly overpowered, but if you face permadeth it should be. Personally Im just going to play an empire fighter-type, and if I somehow get to be FS, i'll play around with the Jedi, if I don't like it then I'll try to get a lightsaber, flash it around, and then get killed <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/devil.gif ALT=":evil"> . If I do like it, then maybe I'll try to get the coveted Jedi Master status, but I don't really think I will
Rengak Adid
47 Monk
SoulBonded - Drinal
</p>
Lenardo
02-02-2003, 11:14 PM
if i get my fs slot opened i am going to be doing my damdest to get to jedimaster.
Brother Lenardo Draconis
64th level GrandMaster of the Celestial Fists
The First Seal
The Nameless
Magelo ('http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=329805')
Monk Website ('http://www.monkly-business.com')
</p>
This is what I have to say about Perma Death
the fact of the mattter is on a long enough time line, everyone will go Linkdead
I have broadband, I would say I go LD once a month on a good month.
People with 56k's will never have a chance at being a jedi due to LD deaths
People with Broadband will have a smaller chance to be a jedi but only for a certain amount of time
Reason behind that is LD's are inevitable
Anyone on here that has played an online game knows how often and easy it is for them to lose connectivity
So even if you defy the impossible and get to Jedi Knight, you are going to have to get to the Master Status within a few months
If you don't the occasional LD will eat away all your lives
I used to have 56k, and playing a game was an act of patience while tring to play for 10 thru 30mins before I was kicked off
People with these kind of connections to the internet, which there seems to be alot will have a whole profession of Content taken from them for this reason.
Posted on the SWG board and got little to no responce
The best Idea I have seen to conter act the Double standard is that anyone that gets killed by a Jedi Knight outside of the battle field of course, also suffers perma death.
It would definatly discourage players from trying to Grief the jedi.
Think about it You see someone off in the distance using a lightsaber, you tell your Imperial Friends you see a jedi bout 5 mins later all your friends gather behind the rocks waiting to jump him. Then comes the question of who jumps out there first
Considering the 1st person is mostly to die first, there for permadie I think the whole raid would change their mind
A way to translate it to EQ would be if a mob's DeathTouch actually also permadeathed ya, how many guilds you think would go for that mob.. Ever
2 Ti 4:7
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Steiny7Steiny
02-03-2003, 11:30 AM
I agree with you Ryu, however there is something I would like to add...The way you described it the Jedi would be able to go around permadeathing anyone and everyone with their superior combat power. They would need to implement a system where if the Jedi attacks first you do not suffer permadeath, but if you attack a Jedi you better be damn sure youre gonna win. This would fit Jedi more into the defensive role of self protection.
Steiny
</p>
Lenardo
02-03-2003, 12:08 PM
except for dark jedi.
the unknown factor is PA's - how will the player associations react to their players becoming FS. will the players tell their pa mates they are fs?
a good pa will know which of their members unlocks the FS slot.
a good pa WILL protect said jedi potential, via grouping etc etc. to the extent of tossing their lives away so that the fs char can get away/camp.
slowly but surely said pa will acquire more and more jedi as they get better at protecting said jedi and getting them to master status.
Brother Lenardo Draconis
64th level GrandMaster of the Celestial Fists
The First Seal
The Nameless
Magelo ('http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=329805')
Monk Website ('http://www.monkly-business.com')
</p>
the Jedi causing permadeath, is mostly a joke.
Personally I don't think permadeath should be part of any MMOG
out of all the many many post about Jedi in the forums the best Idea I have seen so far is
1) Keep the way that is currently proposed for becomming force sensitive.
2) Instead of having perma-death, have a timer that is reset every time the force sensitive character dies.
3) When a force sensitive character dies, they should *temporarily* be unable to use any
of their force abilities. As the death timer runs out, the character should gradually
regain access to their force powers; though there should be a minimum amount of time
before *any* force abilities are regained.
4) ALL force sensitive characters should be overt members of a faction; and should
therefore have a frequent risk of death.
5) Lightsabers should be uninsurable and/or dangerous for both non-jedi *AND* jedi who
have recently died. That, or the lightsaber should not be equipable in those circumstances. This could be explained by the jedi being in "shock" from the cloning process and having trouble readjusting to their new body. A perfect example of this from the EU is the jedi Callista, from Children of the Jedi.
6) All force-related titles (Jedi Knight, Padawan, etc..) should be temporarily lost until
the death timer allows the character to access the skills that go along with that rank again.
7) The death timer should be significant and should run only while the character is logged
on. I'd say that the minimum time that should pass while logged in before even the *basic*
force abilities become available (including the ability to use a lightsaber) is between 4
and 6 hours. For a maxed out jedi master, it should take between 20 and 40 hours to regain
all force abilities.
<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"> The death timer should not run while the character is in a "safe" area.
2 Ti 4:7
</p>
Steiny7Steiny
02-04-2003, 11:07 AM
I definitely believe that after enough time passes, they will have to remove permadeath so as not to lose customers. I was somewhat surprised, however, by the results of a poll I did on the SWG forums. I asked if people agreed or disagreed with permadeath and if they had played MMORPGs before. For those who had played MMORPGs: 67% Agree, 33% Disagree with permadeath. For those who hadnt played MMORPGs: 63% Agree, 37% Disagree. I expected way more people who are experienced in this type of game to know that permadeath will simply not work.
Steiny
</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub147.ezboard.com/bmonklybusiness43508.showUserPublicProfile?gid=ste iny7steiny>Steiny7Steiny</A> at: 2/4/03 7:27:44 am
Cybsled
02-04-2003, 01:24 PM
I think permadeath is an ok option depending on how death is acheived.
For instance, they said vs. most npcs, once you get knocked out they'll just leave.
They also mentioned you being flagged as "come and kill me" only when you use your force powers. And didnt they mention that players who use a cloak+hood/etc will have their names hidden?
That would tone down the amount of things that could kill you legit. Now bugs...bugs are what worries me. There is NO such thing as a game without bugs. If my character died legit, then fine. If my character dies because on one patch they accidently broke something that allowed me to become FFA or such when I shouldnt be or some weapon was given insane dmg when it shouldnt, then I would be mad.
But if permadeath lets you have the option of very overpowered abilities (as a jedi should be...they're supposed to be the most powerful dudes in the galaxy), then it would be worth it in addition to the presitige of being a high lvl jedi.
</p>
Fopoodzo
02-04-2003, 02:19 PM
Yeah permadeath in mmorpg's in general is a big no for me in most cases.
However this case may work (although equally it might be a huge feck up).
I guess we'll have to wait and see.
</p>
Guys i think youre missing the point that the devs pretty much dont WANT you to be Jedi. Theyre making it insanely hard so the servers arent rampent with gods. They have stated that Jedi will be unrestricted in their power. Now whether or not they keep it that way is up to LucasArts, not SoE (or Verant if you wanna keep calling them that).
</p>
Doesn't seem much different from getting epic except that if you die, let's say to a freak train of greeny goblins, you have to start all over again. Who knows, maybe part of becoming a jedi is dying and having to start all over again.
Brother Mukanil Sulimo (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=198085)
Iksar Grandmaster of the Celestial Fists
Xev
<marquee>LFGuild</marquee></p>
I'm really not so interested in going jedi, this just makes it more so.
Wookie exotic dancers in the hizzouse! =b
</p>
"Doesn't seem much different from getting epic except that if you die, let's say to a freak train of greeny goblins, you have to start all over again."
No I would say it is not the much different from getting your epic except if you die, you have to Re-make your char, level your ass off to get back to where you were before your last death, Start the quest and get all the stuff you had before you died.
Then you will be set....
I agree that permadeath won't last, its just a shame that so many people will leave the game after losing their char before Sony will do a damn thing about it.
If for whatever reason Permadeath stays in the game, It will not only be for powergamers, but for Powergamers with Large PA's backing them
Sadly the only people that will be Jedi for any real amount of time are going to be SWG versions of Furor... and that so sad its scary
2 Ti 4:7
</p>
We will see about the whole Jedi thing. If jedi are going to be as powerful as the developers say, and its supposed to be the hardest thing there is to do in the game, and should be a great achievement and so on...
The truth of the matter is, eventually a LOT of players will get to the master level. And a lot of players will get to that level a hell of a lot faster then the devs think. Once there gets to be too many Jedis around, and content begins to get trivialized, it won't be too long before the profession/class gets nerfed into lameness.
"MUDD BLOAT" or muddflation is inevitable in an online game. Online games have to add new and harder content to match the level of the player base. Once upon a time in EQ, Vox/Naggy took 40 of the best players in the game to kill, now they could probly soloed by a shamen, it the level restriction was removed.
Personally I will wait and see how SWG handles this. Will jedi's stay ahead of the power curve? And will a master level jedi even be worth it? Being almost invulnerable in any game, gets to be pretty boring fast.
Also given the fact that they are talking about a mid April release, they devs sure seem to be doing a lot things in the "last minute."
I think I am going to wait for at least six months before I invest in SWG, and see how things play out.
</p>
Im sorry to say that, most of the people with the cajones to play Jedi are going to be those Furor types we all have grown to hate.
The reason to keep Jedi protected is going to be to use them for high level content! So as a guild grows more and more jedi they can then move up to the Vex Thal of that video game and "win the game."
So ubah guilds will be focused on a powergame mentality and watch as all of your fantasies of playing in a real SW world go down the toilet, and the k00l d00ds start flowing in for their phat loots...you know its gonna happen. Not that this gives me any joy, but calling it as I see it here.
If I become a Jedi though I will take it very seriously, and respect that Sony gave me the character and put in a lot of respect into the character.
Ill go solo or with a small guild to protect me, but I dont want to become Jedi to kill some dragon, I want to be it to kill my enemies the Sith (or possibly the Rebels hahaha). Anything else is beneath my powers. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">
What will be cool is if Master Jedi all decided to fuck the system and became their own guild, the Jedi Council and Jedi Masters would take on Padawans and teach them the ways of the force, it would be the greatest roleplay action in the history of MMOG's ...at least im dreaming that id love to be the master or padawan.
Then we'll go whoop the asses of PK guilds and bring balance to the force! Down with Boba's Assassins! lol
ok sorry now im dreaming...but its so fun to imagine the potential of being a Jedi in this vast universe like I dreamed when I watch the movies.
Hopefully people will take it seriously <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">
If your gonna be a arse do us a favor and become dark jedi <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smokin.gif ALT=":smokin">
</p>
Lenardo
02-07-2003, 11:03 AM
oh btw what the dev said tonite that their WILL be a basic "formula" that people will discover most likely that will unlock the force sensitive slot..
and that a CASUAL player - playing AVERAGE times will need about a YEAR of playtime to unlock said slot.
and that blue glowies are a trophy- you can move around, you can chat.
Brother Lenardo Draconis
64th level GrandMaster of the Celestial Fists
The First Seal
The Nameless
Magelo ('http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=329805')
Monk Website ('http://www.monkly-business.com')
</p>
I am starting to think Jedi won't even be put in the game during the 1st year if not more
They will just pull a Verant move and tell you its there just "very, very, very rare"
Sony will succesfully market a game that alot of people will play to become a Jedi, and they won't even be in the game.
This game was supposed to be without boring camps, and stupidly long timesinks.
Yet the whole Jedi Process is turning into just that.
2 Ti 4:7
</p>
Steiny7Steiny
02-08-2003, 12:08 AM
It is bad enough that Jedi are permadeath and aggresively hunted, which will not work in a MMORPG. In addition to that, the pinnacle of achievement for the Jedi is to become a blue glowie and walk around saying, "May the force be with you." This is complete and utter bullshit due to one simple balance issue: Risk Vs. Reward. You pay for this game and in playing a Jedi you risk loads of valuable time and money for the reward of...absolutely nothing!
The truth is the devs dont want anyone to be a Jedi. While some of us are sitting here saying, "If I unlock the FS slot Im not even going to try." The devs are saying, "Look were discouraging people already, our system must work."
In their current state I would rather Jedi not even be included. However they are there for one reason and that is marketing. MMORPG fans may buy the game without the Jedi, but every Star Wars fan is going to want the chance to be a Jedi. I doubt the box is going to say, "Spend 1 year unlocking FS slot, play a permadeath char, then earn your blue glowie." All it will say is "Chance to be a Jedi."
Steiny
</p>
Junu Peeth
02-08-2003, 12:16 AM
I am agreeing with this also at this point. If I manage to accidentally access a FS slot then it will very likely get used as a mule slot (after I dismally fail to become a Jedi about a dozen times).
The idea of NEVER being able to use the damn character openly even once you make it to Master status for fear of being turned into a mantle-piece blue glowie is very discouraging.
<hr />Baron Junu Peeth (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=157667), Retired 61 Grandmaster Human Monk on Mithaniel Marr</p>
Cybsled
02-08-2003, 01:25 PM
Heh well if someone gets a FS slot and they dont want it, I'll take it ;p
</p>
Hey dont waste that account..if you get your account force attuned sell it on EBAY for hundreds of dollars, use that money to go on playerauctions.com and buy yourself a new character with better equipment than you had before =)
</p>
Isn't this just another way to keep you from ever reaching your goal of Jedi Knight, while you keep paying Sony to try...
Smart marketing really..
Quote from Waynes World 'as long as they keep pumping in the quarters who gives a sh1t right'
<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":">
Welhun
</p>
I agree with perma death on Jedi.
think about it. your PvP GOD. eg. your on a pvp server free for all.. your lvl 65.. everyone else is capped at 50. they have NO aaxp or pop abilities.. your maxed.
but they can only attack you ( non battlefield ) if you start casting spells.. oh btw your a Monk and (insert caster) not a hybrid but full ability of two classes.
well good luck for anyone to kill you eh. for that power yeah. keep permadeath and if you don't like it don't play a jedi.
they stated that a Jedi master can take out a rather large group of players.. it is acceptable risk vs reward.
your taking the risk of losing your char when you make that FS character. right there EXPECT that your going to lose him/her, cuz you probbly will. but if you make it.. your a god.
and on the top it's a fine line to walk on the razor's edge.
<a href=http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=429826>Sobol Thule</a>
a 55th Iksar Master
<a Monk of the Celestial Fists
Brother of the Whistling Fist
</p>
Diefaust
03-07-2003, 01:23 PM
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>If for whatever reason Permadeath stays in the game, It will not only be for powergamers, but for Powergamers with Large PA's backing them
Sadly the only people that will be Jedi for any real amount of time are going to be SWG versions of Furor... and that so sad its scary<hr></blockquote>
The "Furor-type" generally wants everybody to know how cool he/she is. Fortunately, the Empire hunts down known Jedis and even a huge PA will not be able to protect the Jedi against special NPCs like Vader and the Emperor. (FoH + two very-uber and unknown PoP mobs = dead FoH)
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