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View Full Version : So will the uber monk stand up now and talk?


10-16-2002, 04:56 PM
Will FoH/Triton/Afterlife/H&E (whomever) speak up now and tell us how THEY feel and what they are seeing. Sure none (well few...) of us are in that 0.01% class but wonder what they feel now (Esp. the FoH guys and how they feel about what Furor helped usher in).


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10-16-2002, 05:02 PM
ill wager there will be no comments from foh monks.

$20


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10.01.02 Molt says ciao. Take it easy bro...........10.08.02 Fix Warriors?? nah, just nerf tha Monk! (dumb ass's)
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10-16-2002, 05:06 PM
Yeah, I imagine its something like the vote in Iraq today, for monks in FoH.


Smada Salguod
50 something monk - VeeShan</p>

10-16-2002, 05:12 PM
My 6th time posting this .. but as you asked ..hehe 8-)

Im not THE most uber equipted monk, but best equipted in Triton atm.



I logged in to just try a brief test of the monk nerfs ... I'll know more after VT tonight .. but as it looks for soloing .. it appears as tho I feared may be correct 8-(



Mid-lvl and high lvl NON-uber guil monks are reporting they can no longer solo, inc most light blus ... sort of crippling the mid-lvl monks ... but here's the bad thing imho:



1 - lvl 60 monk fighting next to me from non-uber guild 100+aa, had to FD off pulling 1 shroom starting 100% health with single Aeg. He told me after he could normally solo 1 shroom np and ended up about 50% health. He was pissed and logged .. so no telling if this was just a bad run or not.



2 - I had group Aeg and my self buffs running ... solo'd 10 shrooms in a row, no down time, one after the other .. ended 100% health 8-( .. I went down to 94% health during my lowest fight. I was running 5700hp, 1466 ac during the fight test. It may be different in VT tonight



But if this is an indication of what happened ... it will truely suck for mid-lvl, and non-uber guild monks .. and have almost the opposite effect as was intended ... Im waiting to hear how FoH monks and Kung (high lvl monk on Povar) report back thier findings on high end conent, as mine was only a quick test.




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10-16-2002, 05:18 PM
I was between 20% and 40% health fighting a single shroom with no buffs. Usually I finished a fight around 75% health. I dont even want to talk about mobs in ME and Akheva. They treated me like a chew toy. My gear is below.



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</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub35.ezboard.com/ucucullinmcfury.showPublicProfile?language=EN>Cucullin Mcfury</A> at: 10/16/02 1:18:54 pm

10-16-2002, 05:23 PM
I don't see many changes, i two-box a shaman though, so things are so slow i don't really notice much, even though the mobs i fight max hit for 157. Before the patch, i would have to kragg's mending (1950hp heal) every 10 minutes or so, today it seemed more like a heal every 8 minutes, or maybe not much of a difference at all. From a friends parsing, it seems that mobs average hits have gone up 10% for us (we are the top two monks on brell serilis). So not too much of a big deal, but it's noticeable.






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10-16-2002, 05:47 PM
From a much lower season perspective, I'm taking around double the damage from the skellys in Kurn's tower today as I was last night, with the hits being less frequent but the damage all over the place like this: 1, 1, 1, 5, 25, 1, 25, 1 ,5, 1



Eventually I hit a bad spree and my hp drops like a rock, I WAS able to take them with a bubble or heal of damage, now I'm going down two or three on average.


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Sibian
10-16-2002, 07:27 PM
Thanks for giving us a heads up Irontaail..... =)


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10-17-2002, 03:36 AM
After a full night in Vex Thal as well as spending a few hours soloing (mostly in FG) ... this is what Ive found.



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1 - High lvl soloability has only been marginally affected. Those with high end game equiptment have not really been effected much at all. For example on a 10 FG shroom run where I was running almost full health b4 the patch, with no down time and simply constantly pulling as 1 died, it seems to be about the same now. No down time ending 94-100% health at the end of the runs.



On the other hand a monk lvl 60 with 100+aa not in high-end equiptment fighitng next to me had a very hard time soling single shrooms that he normally was able to, ending at 50% health.



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2 - High lvl raid situations. Spending the night in Vex Thal fighting I did notice that mitigation was lower and while b4 the nerf I would have no problem tanking until the warrior's taunt pulled it off me, tonight I tended to FD earlier and then get back up. We didnt have a healer in our group the whole night and even with 1500 AEs I didnt die once, while almost always getting agro at least once during each fight. I also tanked a few times when we had more then a few non-mezzables come in. If I had had a healer in our group I prolly wouldnt have FD'd at all during the fighting, except on the named NPCs (where it's simply bad to agro, for the guilds sake)



I was in a fighting group and not the pull group tonight. Our pullers didnt die any more then normal, although it WAS obvious that tactics were adjusted to make up for the mitigation decrease. More tags were made vs single monk pulling.



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In conclusion ... Mitigation has been adjusted down and it's obvious in all content. The mid-level and non-uber guild monks have been hit, by FAR the hardest on this latest patch. As I mentioned b4 no high end content guild purposely uses monks to tank, and as such not much has changed in the high end content for monks, other then you may end up FDing a lil more then normal. The real issues come with the mid-lvl monks who may have created the character with the thought as a soling class now being unable to to so anymore. It would be like creating a Mage or Necro, because you liked the ability to solo, and then having thier soloability removed.



For the game's long term viability, an adjustment was needed to align some of the mitigation issues to better fit the "big picture" of melee class balancing. Although I dont like the more dramatic effect that it has had on the mid-level and non-uber guild monk community, I do think it may allow for a better game in the long run.



I sort of felt like my old self .. sneaking in doing some major damage, then when I got to agro .. FDing off a bit or deciding to take some heat b4 backing out (FD) and then stepping back up to the plate .. felt a lil more RP tonight then I have in a while 8-)


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</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub35.ezboard.com/uirontaail.showPublicProfile?language=EN>Irontaail</A> at: 10/16/02 11:38:55 pm

10-17-2002, 04:03 AM
Just see what happened... the uber monks who were supposed to be effected in this nerf the most... who i believe were the reasons behind the nerf... are seeing almost no change in what has happened... makes me sick... they lead me on this whole time thinking monks were one thing... they changed it... i say let me be a new class... wasted my time...



Oh and i am in no way flaming you iron or any uber monks... you have worked long and hard for your gear... you deserve what you have...


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10-17-2002, 04:24 AM
I guess we need some parsing to see what the monk AC soft-cap is now, i've kept my AC at just over 1300 unbuffed and gone hps mostly - maybe it's time to bank the neg15 AC earing.



Time and parsing will tell.


Mirross

My Profile</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub35.ezboard.com/umirrosseq.showPublicProfile?language=EN>MirrossEQ (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=12784) at: 10/17/02 12:25:24 am

10-17-2002, 04:29 AM
I found a similar story, Soloing Shrooms in fungus grove was a walk in the park, losing perhaps 5% health per shroom. (Athough sometimes the shrooms would get lucky, and I would have to rest).



I tried a Shik'nar. The results were a bit different. Pre Patch I could solo these about 70% of the time. After the patch, I only managed to solo 1 out of 5 attempts. However it was still close, and it doesnt bother me too much. Just means I need a buff or two.



Unfortunatly the main raid targets on our server didnt spawn before we went to bed, so I can't comment on our pulling abilities yet.



PS. Anyone else remember the value for Block before. 225 now, Im sure it was 230 cap before. Pitty verant had to nerf our avoidance abilites as well as our mitigation.


Sensei Corasik Thule

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10-17-2002, 04:36 AM
I didnt see mutch of a change running at 5450hp and 1377 ac. (SSRA RC2 as allways). Me cleric duoed the easisist taskmaster, nemas problemas. Elites seems to be the same full group me tanking (Unslowble elites on L2).

What seemed to be change I take alittle "higher" hits but Avoid alot more. But have alot of data to compare with just not the time untill the weekend. Have 100mb of logs before the change of simular SSRA fights.

Now im just collecting alot of data after the change.



But at first glance I didnt see any diffrence in total damage taken, or its to small diffrence to see with the bare eye...



//Regards Zhaz


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10-17-2002, 05:29 AM
Did an hour of sirens in SG, can still kill em nonstop, but I was startin to get to 40-50% because of bad luck with crit mend (didn't go off once all night). I do notice more max hits but it didn't seem that they were missing more often either. This nerf is pretty much what I expected, a noticeable change but no more than that. The uber monks will still be able to solo farm AAs easily, but they might have to actually use mend more often now. I will try a night of doing melee type mobs (sebilis) and see how much I need to mend. Before patch, I didn't have to every 6 mins because of high regen, tap weapon, and lots of min hits.



Keep in mind that VI knows we weren't tanking bosses or otherwise taking warrior's places in groups. All this nerf does is make us who we should have been at the start of EQ. Yes, our mitigation was a mistake from day one, believe it or not, so really this isn't a nerf, rather a fix. It can't be a nerf when it was never intended. Of course, I'm very disappointed that VI waited 3 years to do this change, but then, we did get a free perma ministonestance for 3 years, too. VI knew all along(I guess their turnover didn't help), they just needed an excuse to nerf it and what better excuse than PoP, the expansion for ubers.



I don't feel that this nerf outright disabled anything that a monk could do before, whatever that might be. If it has, then a few more gear upgrades will put you where you were. We're still among the best soloers in melee. I say "among" because uber rangers solo very well too. With high dmg shield(spells + clicks), regen/FT15 items for no down time healing (just like our mend) and archery to do 1-2k to mob just on the pull, plus slow proc on epic.. they can do seb actually better than a monk, especially now. With FT being usable to a ranger, it compounds their solo power even more. They are the only double attack/dual wield class that uses both regen and FT, and they have arrows that do nukish dmg on top of it.



When I first made my monk, I wanted to do dmg. I had no idea I was going to be a tank too. My idea of a monk was from TorilMUD where they had a cap of half the AC warriors could get (they got crunched bad) but man, they could hit 8+ times a round and hard like a truck. All I wanted is to be a "hitter" class, but I ended up with so much more... for those who had higher expectations at creation, stick with it, as long as your gear sucks, there is that much more power to gain still. There's a lot more about power than AC and hps, clickies/effects are huge.



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Guild) of Mithaniel Marr</p>

10-17-2002, 05:54 AM
Question to FoH, I was just wondering, are ya happy that ya @#$@# off thousands of monks just cause you couldnt deal as much dmg as monks ? just curious


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Yammi

lvl 52 Monk of Quellous

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10-17-2002, 06:02 AM
Im only lvl 51, I guess I have average gear for my level (well on AB anyway), and I saw very little difference in damage taken, only once did I get a really bad string of max damage hits and almost had to FD, but I used to get that anyway every now and again.



Will have to take some logs and compare to prenerf (only got logs from CoM, was completing my shackle of tyn last night :P ), but from my intuition I would say the 10% more damage would be about right, my druid parnter did say she was healing slightly more, but I took down master glox, and rinmark with very little effort, and they both quad/FK.




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10-17-2002, 07:18 AM
Well, I haven't exp'd or anything yet so can't really say if i'm geting hit more. My day was doing cursed cycle, cept cursed didn't pop. Got DT'd by exiled so didn't get any data. Did hp next, I took rampages after war went LD, didn't drop below 50% much, but I bot 2 clerics and do a 6 sec self ch rotation on myself, had about 1600 ac and 6500 hps while taking the ramps. Oh, did so some ST today too, some golems hit me for 316 pretty often, but my first time in new ST, so nothing to compare with. Anyways I'm not a good example cause I bot 4 chars when I xp, nothing a CH won't fix. Normally don't slow mobs anyways when I fight and just kill em with damage shields and CH. Always bot 2 clerics when I'm pulling on raids too, so don't normally die when i pull and tank. But before patch I did rampage on aten and tkv, will see how it goes if I end up doing that again next trip.



One thing though, Irontaail's got a lot of regen, and likely more resists than that other non uber monk, Likely higher ATTK from vengence and better weapons to boot, thus dps as well. You would be kiling them off quick while they nuking you, all the while regening and procing gharns on it. prenerf I assume you could solo 10 shrooms and be at 90 life or higher too since the shrooms never were a challenge. Kinda like saying I could kill 10 greenies and be at 90 life before patch and after, as they were never really a challenge anyways. Could be that other monk got unlucky and got one of those shroom who melees alot more than it casts.

What I mean is a better comparison would be if you soloed something more challenging for you, like a jugger or something. Then you could tell how bad the nerfs were.


</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub35.ezboard.com/ukung2.showPublicProfile?language=EN>kung2</A> at: 10/17/02 3:38:54 am

Fopoodzo
10-17-2002, 07:38 AM
Seems to be about a 10-15% defence (mitigation/ac) nerf, unless you have gear ~200ac or more above the ac soft cap for the mob you're fighting.





So those with worst gear get hit most. WTG Verant! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/frown.gif ALT=":(">


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10-17-2002, 08:22 AM
<blockquote>Quote:<hr> I tried a Shik'nar. The results were a bit different. Pre Patch I could solo these about 70% of the time. After the patch, I only managed to solo 1 out of 5 attempts. However it was still close, and it doesnt bother me too much. Just means I need a buff or two.<hr></blockquote>



Assuming you're referring to the foragers. They have a level range that increases thier power signifigantly from the lowest to highest. Which explains why originally you'd lose to 30% of them. I tried one once with my Monk and got it to 35%, never messed with another one. I have solo'd them alot on my Beastlord though, when I got the small 5 spawn patch in the back, and noticed a huge difference from forager to forager even slowed and player pet cleric.



Shrooms also aren't the best guage of how bad the adjustments to mitigation hurt the class, as pre-patch I've had some chain curse me at or below 50% out of sheer bad luck, and other times not at all. If you parse(d) it before and after with only damage taken, then that's different. Saying you seemed to be mending more after the patch isn't accurate enough.


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10-17-2002, 09:10 AM
<blockquote>Quote:<hr> Yeah, I imagine its something like the vote in Iraq today, for monks in FoH. <hr></blockquote>



haw! that is too funny.


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