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View Full Version : Verant Interactive - this post is for you.


10-17-2002, 06:48 AM
Verant -



You claim that you are human, and that you make mistakes. I strongly believe that it is a greater mistake to handicap monk's core skills to accomodate for a small percentage of monks with high end gear. Let's consider the alternatives, and the results of each.



-Change the All/All items with low weight - varients of this "solution" would include stat changes, ac changes, class/race changes. This would indeed stop high end monks from tanking - they would be half naked.

Another similar solution involves nerfing the All/All items that will drop in the future, not the ones that have dropped already. This might not work simply because you have allowed the All/All items to become accessible for far too long before addressing the problem. While there are still many monks with only average or above average items, this solution might still be viable - let the dedicated players keep their hard earned items, but prevent any more broken equipment from being dropped. (This would require some "real work" to be done on Verants part - it might be too much work for them, im sure they have busy schedules)



-Inflate other classes attributes to achieve game balance. Verant already mentioned how disastrous that would be, let's move on to the next example



-Globally modify the mobs that inhabit norrath - refer to the above example.



-And finally, you can keep the nerf as it is, but ignore its true effects. This nerf affects the casual player with a moderately high level character with average or above average gear. High end monks see a change, but not nearly as much as the average player. Do you realize that your paycheck is coming from the "majority"? This majority just got nerfed, while the high end monks are mostly unaffected. Do what you like, but it is bad business plain and simple.



In conclusion, Verant made a mistake in the past, and they are trying to make up for that mistake now, in a way that lacks wisdom and any type of intelligence. Their laziness must be a real issue, because anyone can plainly see that the ITEMS are the problem here, not the class itself. Put in a real days work, change the items that are making the game unbalanced - let the high end monks keep their equipment but stop more broken equipment from being dropped.





***If you are adamant about stopping monks who already can solo and who have high end gear (i assure you, it is a small percentage of your player base), then modify only a small amount of the high end gear, and make our mitigation 15 percent less, and our avoidance 2.5 percent more. (compared to 31 mitigation and 5 percent more avoidance) This solution addresses not only our class abilities, but some of the broken items. Yes, monks will not like having less mitigation but 15 is better than 31. Yes, monks will not like having a few high end items modified but if Verant does it correctly they can effectively modify the most damaging items - not lose the items altogether, just reduce their power. To make up for those nerfed items, you could actually create *new* high end items which are NOT broken. Is this making any sense to you?***



P.S. - i encourage you to post your ideas on this topic, and please ask Verant to take these ideas into consideration. I have thought long and hard about a fair solution and this seems to balance the game quite well.


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10-17-2002, 06:56 AM
Making monks dependant on decent armor is a logical continuation. VI realised that a character who fights effectively in cloth armor and with bare fists is hard to bribe. You can't offer PHAT LEWTZ to cause them to raid all day and buy every expansion. Thus the introduction of weapons in Kunark and now the dependance on good armor to survive.



This is not a bad thing if VI takes it the full distance. Monk class armor must be completely revised and upgraded it so that the averagely equipped monk is not forced to take a huge nerf to make up for gear they will never see. If monk class armor is no longer a "monk disadvantage" to make up for their defensive modifiers then it has no reason to be such crap.



In simpler terms. You've made it so every monk needs armor. Where is the armor for them to wear?






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10-17-2002, 07:02 AM
I want to elaborate on the starred example because the more i think about it, the better the idea becomes. It addresses every issue with game balance



It tones down the monk abilities (15 percent less mitigation, 2.5 percent more avoidance)



It stops monks from tanking similar to warriors (mitigation nerf + item nerf)



It doesnt completely stop monks from soloing who have earned the right to do so - class nerf + item nerf isnt completely bad if Verant actually lessens the mitigation nerf and lowers the high end item stats a little



It allows monks to pull effectively still - 15 percent less mitigation will not kill us, and if you end up having some high end items, losing some stats isnt totally bad as long as Verant makes *new* items. High end monks will have no problem re-equipping themselves with those new items if they are so inclined - and those new items will not be broken so everything will become balanced.


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10-17-2002, 07:06 AM
For instance, imagine if all the vellious monk quest BP's had fungal regrowth in addtion to their current stats. Instant new most desired monk BP for nearly every monk except the most uber. Fungal regrowth and decent AC has become required equipment even for casual monks post-nerf.


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10-17-2002, 07:06 AM
Im sure any monk would take a nerf on wepons stats than to have their defence nerfed.


<img src=http://www.geocities.com/senseiyammi/raster.gif>

Yammi

lvl 52 Monk of Quellous

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10-17-2002, 07:10 AM
<blockquote>Quote:<hr> I strongly believe that it is a greater mistake to handicap monk's core skills<hr></blockquote>





this may be a redundant question, but what "core" ability got nerfed?



monks arent supposed to take damage well in the first place, they are supposed to deal it.



realize that this is an attempt at honest discussion, not a flame.


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Property of Tamarai (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=28243)</p>

10-17-2002, 07:12 AM
call it what you want - core skill, ability that verant gave us, in game percentage modifier or whatever. look at the starred part of the post, i think i came up with a solution that everyone can agree on


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10-17-2002, 07:14 AM
Not everyone can or will get high end equipment. There ARE those of us that choose not to move on to different guilds for the sake of gear. What about us? Should we be screwed over because of this?


<p align="left">Baron Riely Dreamweaver (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=116627)

Grandmaster

Violent Tendencies (http://www.violent-tendencies.com) </p></p>

10-17-2002, 07:16 AM
Monks have been able to tank for 3 years now, why change so suddenly, i know the argument has been made, but i feel like pointing it out.


<img src=http://www.geocities.com/senseiyammi/raster.gif>

Yammi

lvl 52 Monk of Quellous

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10-17-2002, 07:18 AM
look at the starred part of the post - its a compromise - Verant reduces the defence nerf, revamps the monk items and adds new, non-broken (class specific) items. if you dont want to move onto a new guild for the sake of items, why not just hang out with your guild friends and try to camp some of the new items verant will give? this is all hypothetical but do you see what i mean? im serious, i cant see anyone not agreeing to this compromise (except verant, they will have to actually do some work lol)


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10-17-2002, 07:23 AM
"Monks have been able to tank for 3 years now, why change so suddenly, i know the argument has been made, but i feel like pointing it out."





i don't know about the rest of ya'll... but i haven't been able to tank for exp since i stepped into KC for my epic about a year ago






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10-17-2002, 07:34 AM
I cannot really solo for experience. Yet prior to tonight I thought I was a medium tank. Somewhere between a real tank (warrior) and the true light tanks (rogues). I'd still need healing and support, I'd still prefer a warrior (they've got more HP, AC and taunt) but if I have to go toe to toe with a mob I should do so reasonably well.



That's what I signed up for.



If I tank like the rogue (who does more damage than me most of the time) or the ranger (who does about the same, *may* do more with archery and has the utility of spells) then I don't really get what advantage a monk has over those classes. Sure I can FD, which is great for pulling, but outside of that how does it help my party. The mob comes charging up and I either imitate a corpse or get turned into a real one? Watch the ranger or rogue (both chain classes) tank while I try and avoid agro?



I didn't sign up for that.




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10-17-2002, 07:38 AM
if verant promises to revamp the item system and give us new, non broken class specific items would that make you happy? i mean yea, we still would have our current items toned down (the all/all ones) and less mitigation but i think if they gave us more items to work with i would be totally fine with the nerf. (toning down the all/all items and adding new non-broken ones is what REAL BALANCE is about verant, at least consider it)


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10-17-2002, 07:41 AM
I can't believe that they now pick this time right before PoP to NERF us. Melee rebalancing was done months ago- they are now working on caster balancing. Why the heck nerf the monks now? I am just confused.


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Tenshai
10-17-2002, 07:44 AM
Problem:

I just wonder if the high end Monk has not become somewhat the Majority.

Monk stuff is imbalanced in Velious (North ToV and higher content).



I'm not in a NToV guild. but I know a lot of people on my server who are there or higher now... Most lower level Monks are 2nd or 3rd characters...

Maybe VI just do not care about people not there yet.



But, well, I have abolutely no figures...


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10-17-2002, 07:52 AM
high end monks are not all that common - plus they earned their stuff and had to work hard for it. thus, revamping the all/all stuff and toning it down, plus adding new items would make EVERYONE happy. lets say an uber monk has almost all of the stuff verant tones down. if they have all of the high end stuff, how hard would it be to get the new, non-broken monk only stuff that is slightly better than the all/all stuff? i think at some point monks should be able to solo and tank as well as average warriors if they spend like 3 years working on their monk and raiding daily.


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10-17-2002, 07:57 AM
You dont have to be a genius to see this

first they have said in the past monks were balanced...before this nerf they admitted its the uber gear that created any imbalance





Monk + normal gear = balanced class



Monk + Uber gear = possibly to strong a class



NERFED Monk + Uber gear = balanced again



NERFED Monk + normal gear = broken class.....Less than the once balanced class... OR nolonger balanced



Its a shame becuse after checking out some of the stats you guys have you truley are rocking ...i have a 54 monk with epic and im just sick at the changes made..im in the average high end class 1000-1100 AC depending on setup and 1800 -2k hp i can no longer solo anything really worth it ..im not gonna kill light blues .



I started the monk cause of what it was ...much like wizards chose manaburn for what it was...they gave back AA points ...ive yet to see any offers of anything to make up my last years work .

I dont suspect i will ever gain the gear to make my monk soloable again ..<--- reason i chose this guy ...I have a active life a little girl who is my world i normally get and hour or 2 at best a day dureing the week to get a little exp its just not doable to think in an hour and half i can travel ...get group ...kill much and then get out of said place before i need to log here again veriant raises the bar...if you want to enjoy our game we must Jump thru THIS hoop and get THIS gear..



they raised the cost of EQ not long ago we spend more money now....to me they just raised the Cost again only now we will need to become more Hardcore..wich i refuse to do im afraid i enjoy my real life to much for that =(

sorry VI youve really let me down on this one






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10-17-2002, 08:12 AM
They could do two things:



Remove and avoidance avoidance or mitigation aa skills since they give a good percentage of avoidance / mitigation boost.



They could have set gear on a rank / class modifier table and remove the problem of having a single zone designer screw up gear balance in the whole game.



They could set up a matrix of gear rank / class modifiers to limit the maximum stats, effects, modifiers a single loot whore can hoard and hence limit the mudflation from the top down (shamelessly stolen from foh board).



They just added PE to monks, what sense does it have?

You are meant to do CS3, CD3, CA3 and PE to return to the status of monks pre-nerf? BS! #$%#&$% Verant


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