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10-16-2002, 12:37 PM
I just tried to solo in my Old soloing Spot KC Great place to solo for me can normaly solo there No problem not only could i not solo the dog beat my half to death before i could even get him to half health..



So i guess its true monks do suck now i have cancled my account and i dont think ill be reuping it any time soon...



Thanks Verant for 3 years shoot to hell and back..


Osyris (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=269305&resize=true)

*Power Without Perception is Spiritually useless and there for of no true Value*</p>

10-16-2002, 12:42 PM
I'm crying right now IRL.



Maybe I'll feel better in a few hours when I can finally log in & start working up my new dodge cap.



<font size=2>
<a href=http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=6347>Baron Draxus Diablus</a>

Teir'Dal Warlord



In your spare time you may study the word of god, and my god says this:
Get a sword, get on a horse, and go out and kill anyone who does not like you.
</font></p>

10-16-2002, 12:46 PM
Well, I just got back from logging an eqlog in post-nerfdom. I was fighting low end blues with Low ATK rating, seafury's in OoT. I did notice that between fights it was taking a substantial amount more bandages to get back to 70%. I won't have time to actualy compare this log with last nights until this evening. Hope it isn't as bad as it seems....


</p>

10-16-2002, 12:51 PM
if the monk community doesnt start a major revolution nothing will change.



the changes are more than worse.. i just killed some mobs in chardok and have to say.... i feel very useless now.

unless you re an uber equipped monk you re not going to solo anything anymore.



its a flying kck right into my balls to see how any other class gets upgraded and its only us to get nerfed.



i mean the average 60 monk has maybe about 1100 ac and like 2500 hp unbuffed (like me)

i dont think i ever was a better tank than a warrior or paladin...



well i for myself send mails and ingame feedbacks to verant. they have to adress the changes and give us something to compensate that.



i am playing eq since beta now. vi s statemanet that this disbalance wasa life for too long now is just a joke.



but its nice to see that they re too lazy to just change the uber all/all items... it s easier to just nerf every single monk out there uber or just average.



wtg verant



i ll cancel my account, maybe i ll sell it if anyone wants <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/frown.gif ALT=":(">



regards

muskel berg

castrated monk of ab




<hr>
<img src=http://www.botschaft-des-schicksals.de/bilder/Muskel.gif>
</p>

10-16-2002, 01:06 PM
I was just killing mobs in POM, level 57ish. Cleric was starting Cheals at 30% pre patch, they'd land at 10-20%. Cleric was starting Cheals at 30% post patch, they'd land at 10-20%.



/Shrug.



Not noticing any real difference at this point.



-Hoerkin.


</p>

10-16-2002, 01:24 PM
Solo, then tell me no difference I just got crushed by light blue wyverns in CS at 55. A mob I owned yesterday, today they kicked my butt all over the beach and laughed. Damage from the rear was unreal max hits on 3 out of 4, sorry shelving this char and may cancel when Ive calmed down a bit and give verant a chance to fix things. Luck to you all.


</p>

10-16-2002, 01:28 PM
I noticed no real difference soloing slaves in nurga. Havent parsed yet so dunno how much of a change was made for me if any.


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10-16-2002, 01:29 PM
Draxus



For what its worth you have a very large community of fellow monks who share your frustration. Chin up grasshopper, I still think if we work together to voice our frustration they will have to listen to their customers.



eqfeedback@soe.sony.com



Make your voice heard!



Scalylarry

52 Disciple of E'Ci

Lost Colony


</p>

10-16-2002, 01:30 PM
I see very little difference for a high end monk. I happened to log in the drolvarg warlords room and still soloed it out..the only difference i noticed was that i was forced to mend on the warlord even though i had full health when i engaged him. I also did notice a few 10second or better spurts where i didnt get touched once. All in all this could have been much much worse. however, i feel for the monks around 2500hp with 1100 ac if its hurtin them as bad as the posters above declared <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/frown.gif ALT=":(">


</p>

10-16-2002, 01:44 PM
I think you missed the word "Warlord" in my sig...



Monks do have it pretty bad now, though. No more soloing for easy xp is going to be rough.



<font size=2>
<a href=http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=6347>Baron Draxus Diablus</a>

Teir'Dal Warlord



In your spare time you may study the word of god, and my god says this:
Get a sword, get on a horse, and go out and kill anyone who does not like you.
</font></p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub35.ezboard.com/udraxusmt.showPublicProfile?language=EN>Draxus MT</A> at: 10/16/02 9:45:07 am

Lyndar
10-16-2002, 01:48 PM
Sarcasm will get you nothing but amusement.



/laugh


http://lyndar.netfirms.com/sigpic.JPG (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=291578)
Grandmaster
Bristlebane</p>

10-16-2002, 01:48 PM
Just solo'd 14 slaves in Nurga.



Average damage taken for the 20 mobs I killed BEFORE the nerf: 1484.



Average damage taken for the 14 mobs I killed AFTER the nerf: 1484. (Yes, exactly the same, I'm not making this up.)



/shrug



nerf = no show



Or can we expect the servers to go down again for the REAL patch? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":p">



EDIT: This data is from a level 60 monk.


</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub35.ezboard.com/uignap.showPublicProfile?language=EN>ignap</A> at: 10/16/02 11:50:29 am

10-16-2002, 01:51 PM
<blockquote>Quote:<hr> No more soloing for easy xp is going to be rough.





<hr></blockquote>



they can still solo.. just now they dont solo stupidly easily. big difference.



having to bind wounds and mend every fight doesnt mean youre broken. it means your finally *balanced*.


</p>

10-16-2002, 01:57 PM
Trolls be gone.


</p>

Ebbin
10-16-2002, 02:15 PM
nm..I have lost the ability to read english correctly


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</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub35.ezboard.com/uebbin.showPublicProfile?language=EN>Ebbin</A> at: 10/16/02 10:21:05 am

Dragon of Metal
10-16-2002, 02:19 PM
/sigh I would have thought the other classes would have left when the patch came. Oh well, /em hand all the monks there own can of Troll begone


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</p>

Braxis Rambunctious
10-16-2002, 02:20 PM
Ignap took 1484 on average not total <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">






</p>

10-16-2002, 02:26 PM
Kudos to Verant for bringing some long awaited joy to all the little assclowns like Draxus.



On a side note, dark elf pocket warriors make me giggle. Sure he's short and built like a paperboy but his surname is Diablus. Cause the only thing scarier than the Devil, is the Devil spelled wrong in another language.



You're a scarey little grape, aren't ya?

Oooooh yes you are!



nuggy

nuggy

nuggy



In your spare time you may study the word of mom, and my mom says this:

Get a spoonstraw, get on a bike, and go out and troll anyone who is taller than you.


</p>

10-16-2002, 02:28 PM
<blockquote>Quote:<hr> having to bind wounds and mend every fight doesnt mean youre broken. it means your finally *balanced*. <hr></blockquote>That's funny, I had to that before the nerf. So I guess you're saying nothing's changed then. Ass.



Anywho, other than wishing the trolls would just leave instead of making futile attempts to make valid points, I think we all need to sit back and wait a bit for some hard evidence to come back from some people before we all go on strike. I may actually log on tonight just to see if I can tell a difference, although it's been a while.



<a href=http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=226119>Karlyle Tranquillus</a>

55th Master

Follower of Quellious

Quellious Server</p>

10-16-2002, 02:29 PM
Nice to see Morns like Ignap (gee 4 posts that are either Trolls or disinformation - do you even have a Monk?) and Draxus MT (MT= Moron Tank) come here to gloat. Real nice of you folks. Hope you enjoy wasting time and finding a Necro to summon your corpses out of ToV and the Planes.


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Chilau SwiftFist

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View my Profile on Magelo (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=30466)


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10-16-2002, 02:44 PM
LMAO @ Utal <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol">



pocket grape.. you've GOT to love that hehe.



Bet his main is a Druid.



Aldarion: bite me. How many classes can solo in this game? Monks were *never* stupidly easy to solo. Either of the quadding classes is far easier and far safer to solo. Same for Necro fear kiting and Shaman root/rotting.





--

Stonetooth Sleestak

60 Iksar Monk

Druzzil Ro




</p>

10-16-2002, 02:56 PM
I never understood why people enjoy other's getting nerfed. The only thing that changed is that monks take more damage. I have yet to see how this helps other classes. It's not like monks go solo Gorenaire and sell the scales at a high price to Bards for their epic. I guess it just makes them feel better about themselves. Pretty sad in my opinion.






Lestan Gregor

"Don't be quick to judge, you may not know the hardships people don't speak of..."

</p>

10-16-2002, 03:02 PM
Heard in Bazaar . . .



/ooc Buying MONK ONLY items at fire sale prices.



<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">



Is the change really that bad for under 50s?






Multa renascentur quae iam cecidere, cadentque quae nunc sunt in honore uocabula.




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10-16-2002, 03:05 PM
Ack, taken in by Draxus pretending to be really upset and "crying" about these changes. That will teach me for not reading sigs more carefully. As for stupidly easy to solo a monk? Excuse me....



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



Whew thanks. I needed a good laugh. The reason I've gotten as far as I have in leveling is in a large part due to teaming up with a druid most of the time. The color dark blue hasn't been a reliable indicator of whether I can win or lose a fight for a while now. Stupidly easy indeed.


</p>

10-16-2002, 03:49 PM
Chilau what is your problem? I was posting the data collected from soloing my level 60 MONK.



There is no difference. I take the same damage after the patch as I did before. I am posting actual parses, not conjecture. The nerf was minimal if it had any effect at all.



Learn to read more carefully before you rant at someone. Obviously with my 4 posts I contribute more than you do to the board.


</p>

Keyeluke
10-16-2002, 04:07 PM
Just did my first batch of xp soloing in Velks since the patch. Figure about 35 mobs. Compared parses of fights, but with varying mobs and a T-Staff the per-mob numbers vary too much. However, in terms of xp gained per unit time played, the bottom line is I can still solo quite effectively for xp - albeit a bit more slowly. Was getting typically 6 blue AA per hour soloing, assuming the place wasn't too crowded, before the patch. Based on two hours of play, I'd say I'm doing a little worse than before, but my ability to solo for reasonable XP is not broken. I'm a monk with 1100AC, 3kHP, TStaff, Fungi, and CA2.



Obviously this is a subjective report, and the sample is small. But it's enough for me for now, at least regarding this aspect of my game play. I'm not happy about the nerf, but they haven't broken the XP grind for me.



I still have to see how pulling goes.



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10-16-2002, 04:12 PM
"It's not like monks go solo Gorenaire and sell the scales at a high price to Bards for their epic."



OK which class can solo Gore? That's news to me. "High price" meaning more than say, 65k for EOT/Sunstrike, 75k for Boots of Flowing Slime or 30-40k for Spider Fur Cap and ODS?


</p>

10-16-2002, 04:20 PM
I apologize. What I meant to say was that it's not like you have a group of 6 monks going around soloing Gorenaire.






Lestan Gregor

"Don't be quick to judge, you may not know the hardships people don't speak of..."

</p>

10-16-2002, 04:20 PM
It is interesting to me that the monks reporting having no problems or seeing no change in soloing are lvl 60. Pls post your stats with ac/hp...odds are you will not see a difference on any mobs that you can solo if you already have 1200+ac, bot I can tell you at 1072 ac there IS a difference.



trolls make me laugh with their ignorance


zathrys
55 master of chaos
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Wubao
10-16-2002, 04:45 PM
<blockquote>Quote:<hr> - albeit a bit more slowly. <hr></blockquote>



Each new patch makes soloing a bit slower and slower and slower. That's four straight patches that have made soloing less efficient. It's adding up. It's really adding up.



<blockquote>Quote:<hr> OK which class can solo Gore? That's news to me. "High price" meaning more than say, 65k for EOT/Sunstrike, 75k for Boots of Flowing Slime or 30-40k for Spider Fur Cap and ODS? <hr></blockquote>



75k for boots of flowing slime? Sucks to be on your server man. 30-40k for an ODS? Ick. Stop paying outrageous prices for items that are easily obtained like an ODS.



-Wu


</p>

10-16-2002, 05:34 PM
Level 54 Monk in moderate gear, with 950ish AC and 1900 odd HP. Before the patch I could solo HHK with downtime between each spawn obivously to bind wound, but then taking any blue con noble/bard/isabella at 85% plus with either mend or stone up.



After patch I attempted Isabella 3 times as a blue con and the best I did was get her to 50% using mend and stone. Each time I feigned at under 20% health and gave up. Hardly a wide sample I know but fuck me it sucks <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/frown.gif ALT=":(">



Compact

Firiona Vie.


</p>

Kelwan
10-16-2002, 05:46 PM
I don't have any parsed numbers, but after a few hours in KC I see a BIG difference. Lev 52 with pretty ordinary equipment for the level. Them dogs are beating the hell out of me.


<font face="Gill Sans MT"><font size=3 color="3300ff">Jondalar Fairfist</font> (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=70469)

<font size=2 color="ffdd00">Random Acts on Morell-Thule</font>


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10-16-2002, 05:58 PM
I as a beastlord was extremely happy with the changes made to my class in todays patch, I had a grin I couldn't get rid of, right up until one of my best friends in the game logged off because she was so upset at the performance of her monk <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/frown.gif ALT=":(">



She doesn't have uber gear and in no way a threat to any warrior out there who wants to tank stuff, she now takes much more damage then before and understandably a little pissed off. Looks like the folks right at the top who are able to tank effectively and better then plate classes in certain situations see no difference at all according to this thread while those lower down are feeling the pain and having their game ruined.



VI got a lot right in this patch, they really did, believe me as a beastlord I've seen them get it wrong before, this change to you guys really doesn't look right, hope they fix it and fix it soon.



Don't give up, dont cancel your account, parse your data and look at the finding objectively if possible, if as they appear to be to my friend are fubar then MAKE SOME NOISE! and get it sorted.






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10-16-2002, 06:00 PM
Im a lvl 60monk with 60aa.



3200hps 1225ac



I dread logging on and seeing exactly the effect this nerf is going to have on me. I logged out in KC, ill do my first tests there in the basement. I was duoing it last night with a monk in My guild, about the same stats as me nothing uber, but decently equipped with 3khps 1200ac. We were able to clear all of Jail area up to Verix without any down time.



Im betting this is gonna be a pretty obvious nerf though. If it's only a 10-15% dmg mitagation increase its shouldnt be that bad, but well see.



-Kenshiiro




</p>

10-16-2002, 06:28 PM
Neither of you uber? I consider 1200 AC uber and 3K hps uber. I am lvl 60 1057 AC inc major shielding buff and 2230 hps. Granted I do not have ND2 and 3 yet but have PE, I have 28 hps. I have noticed a bar of difference in Velks to date in soloing. It will be interesting to see what the Kobolds do.


</p>

Chasak
10-16-2002, 06:39 PM
folks Ignap is right, i checked the Slave camp and dmg taken didn't go up, sure some fights i toke 2k dmg, but on others i got 1k dmg (for blue cons he's right)

gonna have to test this think out on high cons, but not tonight


Brother Chasak Dacrazy (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=55808)
Iksar Grandmaster of Bertoxx Server

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things i cannot change; courage to change the things i can; and wisdom to know the difference."

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub35.ezboard.com/uchasak.showPublicProfile?language=EN>Chasak</A> at: 10/16/02 2:41:56 pm

10-16-2002, 06:48 PM
55 Monk with 960 AC and 1000 ATK, 1800 HP.



Used to be able to solo a Shard Spider with mend and stone Unbuffed.



Now I cannot get it down to even 40% without having to feign.



Maybe you level 60s with Fungis and TStaffs and 1200+ AC arent noticing a difference, but my account was hacked and I lost all my equipment. Now I have to start with what used to be considered decent, but now with the changes, it is surely just a big pile of shit.


</p>

10-16-2002, 06:52 PM
So I log in, and I go to ME with my fiancee's cleric in tow.



20 fights.



Yes, I did notice a difference. I did get hit harder. I also got hit less often. Through the fights I kept Celestial Heal on all the time, and normally I would see a steady back and forth as I take damage and get heal.



Post patch... fights lasted the same amount of time, but I would see more flux in the celestial heal. Sometimes I would get ahead more and actually top out on health, and sometimes I would get hit a bunch and drop. But getting hit a bunch seemed to be pretty consistantly followed by not getting hit.



Overall. Less predictable to heal, but in the long run, still the same tanking.



*shrug*


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10-16-2002, 06:55 PM
Maybe you monks with 3k hp and 1300 AC arent noticing much of a difference, but I am.



I am level 55, I have mediocre equipment, around 960 AC and 1800 HP. Just average, non-twinked monk.



I get the living shit beat out of me. I cannot even take a spider in Velks to half life before I have to feign, even when I have Stone and Mend up. I am completely worthless.



I am not taking my sad embarressment of a char to any groups or raids until some drastic changes are made. I want to cry because I am completely screwed, I will never have uber equipment and therefore I will never have any use.


</p>

Chasak
10-16-2002, 07:09 PM
spazmonicbe i'm far from having good gear at lvl60 and my hp is low too, but all in all the patch didn't do much for me yet, still need to look how it is when i fight something that is in my range, AR and FG are spots i gonna have to visit to see if it hurts as some say, or if it dosn't.

Just group, as a monk you can lower your agro on mobs and if not, blame the warrior <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":p"> . Equipment comes with time and grouping / raiding, not with soloing (unless you farm cash and then go buy it)


Brother Chasak Dacrazy (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=55808)
Iksar Grandmaster of Bertoxx Server

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things i cannot change; courage to change the things i can; and wisdom to know the difference."

</p>

Sibian
10-16-2002, 07:10 PM
"You're a scarey little grape, aren't ya?

Oooooh yes you are!"

Hehehehehehe



OK went to GD to try out the nerf on light blue giants..

before the nerf i would take 15 to 20% dmg from them..each.on a very regulator basis.



today every damn one did 45 to 46% each on a very regular basis..



so i see a huge diff. so do 2 other monks in my guild that happened to log on..


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10-16-2002, 07:21 PM
60 Monk

1150 ac

2750 hp



Hit spiders in Velks for a couple hours. Aside from a few fights where bad rolls amplified the changes, I didn't feel crippled in there or anything. Most fights the difference was noticeable by the naked eye, but barely.



I'll probably get jumped on for saying this, but I don't think a moderately equipped level 55 melee of any class should be able to solo consistently in Velks. That does seem a bit unbalanced.



Anyway, people will continue to parse like mad...we should have the whole story within a few days here I'd imagine.



Daishan

Grandmaster

Zeb






</p>

10-16-2002, 07:24 PM
Killed a few things this morning for 30 mins, noticed perhaps getting hit harder when they connect.



Parser however put Mob DPS at around the same amounts (Im at work, can get numbers tonight), My Hippy didnt seem to use any more manna than normall.



Will check tonight when Pulling NToV.

I have a Good log of 4 Dain pulls the other night, will be interesting to compare that for max hits etc when we do him again



1280ac, 3650hp, Lvl 60. (ND3, No PE, No CS/CA) (Unbuffed)












------------------------------------------

<A Href ="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=36455">Attan - GrandMaster</A>


Eleanha - 57 Templer

Aediin Glimmerwolf - Hierophant

Officer - Southern Armada (http://www.southernarmada.org) - Prexus


</p>

10-16-2002, 07:29 PM
Osyris!



Remember me? We dueled in highkeep when I was like level 28. You were one twinked mofo! I beat ya though, due to levels ... and now look where we are. You're 55, epic, fungi and I'm 51 with nothing special cept an IFS and a suspended account (No I didn't break a ton of rules ... family said I played too much and should take a break).



Sad to hear how much it sucks though. I won't make any decisions till I see for myself, which will probably be in ... a month?


-Korph




<a href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=308735">http://gjband.com/Sig.jpg
Level 51 Disciple</a></p>

10-16-2002, 07:36 PM
Logged in, headed to Akheva where I can solo dators normally.



Had a couple of buffs on, level 60 - had about 1150ac and 3k hps, along with 50AAs (ND2, CA2, CS1). With those stats I can usually take single mobs without a problem, ending with 40% health left. First one I pulled spanked my arse thoroughly - after using mend I feigned with half a bubb and the mob was at around 30%. Healed up, pulled another mob - he also kicked my ass just as well.



Got a port to WC, ran to Freeport, stuck all my droppable gear on my very old level 52 ranger and now playing him as my main. /mourn the monk class


</p>

10-16-2002, 07:44 PM
Before the patch I could solo in velks/chardok pretty well, needing to heal up every 4 - 5 mobs. Now I still can solo damn well, except I need to heal every 2 - 3 mobs. Not a major change.



I'm a twinked 56 monk, around 1050ac and 2500 unbuffed hp, yet I can still solo places like Chardok, Velks and Seb better than my lvl 60 rogue with 1150ac 3500hp and 45aa points ... monks needed to be put back in line with the rest of the melee classes.


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10-16-2002, 08:00 PM
So from what I can tell, if your uber you have nothing to worry about. If your not then you might want to consider re-rolling a VI loved character.


http://talbaineric.homestead.com/files/goike.gif
Goike Non-Uberness (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=220228)

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10-16-2002, 08:06 PM
A lvl 55 monk cannot solo velks spiders consistantly when moderately equipped. I can solo ONE Shard Spider pre-patch unbuffed, but I cannot even get it to 50% now



--

Xaeltor Punkmunk

55 Monk of Suckiness

Innoruuk Server


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10-16-2002, 08:09 PM
I'd guess that some of those toward the 'uber' end o things will see more problems in pop at lvl 65 when they gotta hunt lvl 50ish mobs for xp.



Whether it will end up having any impact on the truly top end monks in normal xp situations is debatable, but would guess that at least the people a shade or 2 lower than top end would see it.



Daishan

Grandmaster

Zeb


</p>

Merrik
10-16-2002, 08:21 PM
Level 60 Monk

2700hp

1099ac



Solo'd shrooms in FG today when I logged in to test the nerf. I noticed that I -was- getting hit harder when I did get hit, but not significantly. Several I had to use both mend and inner flame to take down, but that was due to a slow sticking or a string of shreiker curses. Overall it doesn't seem to be greatly effecting my ability to solo these, although it appeared to be taking more hp off each fight (down to 20% every time instead of about 40%). Guessing that more testing will be needed for a conclusive decision here, but I don't see this as anything to quit over at the moment.



The one thing I still can't get over is how they buffed the other "tank" or "half ass tank" class's defensive skills when they nerfed ours. I mean...the nerf was supposed to fix it, buffing them up was just a slap in the face.


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10-16-2002, 08:25 PM
There was another thread around somewhere that went over the phrasing of the original message from Verant...



Don't recall it exactly but it said something to the effect that they couldn't fix the problem 'solely' by raising other classes defense, but that they'd have to lower ours as well.





Daishan

Grandmaster

Zeb



Edit:



Ahh...found it...



"The Plate-wearing classes in the game take a serious penalty to their offensive abilities in order to defend as well as they can, and we cannot fix this problem solely by inflating their defensive abilities to compensate for this"



Only specifically mentioned the plate classes, but I guess they did warn us.




</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub35.ezboard.com/udaishanozeb.showPublicProfile?language=EN>DaiShan o Zeb</A> at: 10/16/02 4:31:20 pm

10-16-2002, 08:33 PM
I don't think its too bad from what ive seen... then again i have 1400 ac with just epic buff =/


A Frenzied Velium Bohbo (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=165552)</eq_profile>
Grandmaster of <a href=http://www.invictusmaneo.org>Invictus Maneo</a></p>