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Delene
06-25-2014, 03:39 PM
Hello all. I am needing some help with my dps as its lacking a little bit. I haven't updated my dps hot keys since HoT and it shows. I have been looking for a dps list that shows me what to stack with what and a disc order. There is so many different forums on here that its hard to find what I'm looking for. I'm averaging 28k dps in group and up to 60k dps in some raid fights (depending on what class' are in my group). Mostly around 40k dps in raids.



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Delene
06-25-2014, 05:13 PM
Here is what I have so far

KICKS:
/disc Shadewalker's Synergy RK.III
/pause 1, /alt activate 469 (Stunning Kick)
/pause 1, /doability 7 (Flying Kick)
/pause 1, /doability 9 (Tiger Claw)
/disc Cloud of Fists RK. III

Everything in the ( ) are not put in my keys. They are just letting people know what that ability does.

DPS 1:

/alt activate 1235 (Two Finger Wasp)
/pause 1, /alt activate 1361 (Second Spire)
/pause 1, /alt activate 945 (Infusion Thunder)
/puase 1, /disc Drunken Monkey Style RK. II
/pause 1, /disc Heel of Zagali RK. III


DPS 2:

/disc Ironfist Discipline RK. III
/pause 1, /disc Shadewalker's Synergy RK. III
/pause 1, /disc Crane Stance RK. III
/pause 1, /disc Zan Fi Whistle
/pause 1, /disc Cloud of Fists RK. III

DPS 3:

/disc Tiger's Balance
/pause 1, /disc Drunken Monkey Style RK. II
/pause 1, /disc Speed Focus Discipline
/pause 1, /disc Zalikor's Fang RK. III
/pause 1, /alt activate 469 (Stunning Kick)

DPS 4:

/disc Drunken monkey Style RK. II
/pause 1, /disc Terrorpalm discipline RK. III
/pause 1, /alt activate 1012 (Five Point Palm)
/pause 1, /disc Shadewalker's Synergy RK. III
/pause 1, /alt activate 469 (Stunning Kick)

DPS 5 Short:

/disc Drunken Monkey Style RK. II
/pause 1, /disc Jab Through RK. II
/pause 5, /disc Swift Reflexes RK. III
/pause 1, /disc Zalikor's Fang RK. III
/pause 1, /alt activate 469 (Stunning Kick)

DPS 5 Long:

/disc Drunken Monkey Style RK. II
/pause 1, /disc Jab Through RK. II
/pause 5, /disc Eye of the Storm RK. III
/pause 1, /disc Zalikor's Fang RK. III
/pause 1, /alt activate 469 (stunning kick)

Please let me know what to change to better dps please.

Gorkeyah
06-25-2014, 09:58 PM
I'm not a fan of macros and I don't know how you're using these, so I find them confusing. I tend to only use fang because pets are a pain on raids. I don't know why you have cloud in there sometimes and fang others, or why zanfi is only in one while I use it whenever its up. I also don't bother with drunk monkey because it does next to nothing compared to max zanfi. I use vs instead. I don't see mention of bp, though that's not a big deal. Also, destructive force.

Delene
06-25-2014, 11:42 PM
back when I did this. I was told its best to have Drunken Monkey down before every disc. I use both epic and BP before using Disc 1+2 and again on disc 4. I always stack disc 1 and 2 for the added dps Crane stance has while Heel of Zagali is going.

I have done this setup long ago and I'm looking for any or all input to update my disc macros.

I'm going to change the Drunken Monkey to Zanfi and see how much that helps.

Gorkeyah
06-26-2014, 10:12 PM
You needed to do drunk monkey before another disc because you can't activate DM while another disc is going. :)

But in any case, DM has a boost to normal attacks which does not stack with zanfi and zanfi fully aa'ed is higher. This means DM is doing nothing for normal attacks while zanfi is going.

DM also has a boost to special attacks, but those are brief and not worth trying to exploit, so you end up with more DPS just using vigorous shuriken which is on the same timer is drunk monkey.

One time it might make sense to use DM again would be while zanfi has faded, but not yet a refreshed to activate again, but I don't bother as zanfi will last long enough for any burn anyway and that zanfi down time is only about 1min.

Gorkeyah
06-26-2014, 10:31 PM
back when I did this. I was told its best to have Drunken Monkey down before every disc. I use both epic and BP before using Disc 1+2 and again on disc 4. I always stack disc 1 and 2 for the added dps Crane stance has while Heel of Zagali is going.


Your dps1 has heel in it, and dps 2 has ironfist, but obviously ironfist wont go if heel is going. I suppose you're maybe spamming these and eventually ironfist kicks in when heel fades?

Even if that's the case, I would promote terrorpalm over ironfist in your burn order. Terrorpalm is a strong disc for us. I often use it over heel if I don't want to use infusion with heel because I'm saving it for speedfocus on events where I use every disc I have -which seems to be all of them! heh

Oh, and I wouldn't bother with jab through, though I admit I'll sometimes manually click it if I have nothing else available. :) You also have swift reflexes in a macro, but that's a defensive disc that helps with rampage. The problem is it's on the same timer has eye of storm (and shaded step which rocks for emergency tanking!), so if you're dps'ing you don't want to use it.

The only way to really use swift reflexes at all now that they changed the timer to eye of storm is to pre-click it before the event so that it puts the hit limited buff on you (which lasts a couple hours). Eventually the timer will reset after 5min or so but you'll still have the buff, and now eye of storm can be used for dps. Swift reflexes is not much help though because of the hit limit and relatively long refresh timer. I usually forget to pre-click it. :)

Ideally you would use tiger's balance with wasp debuff on mob, and with a disc that boosts it like terrorpalm, or infusion of thunder (aa). It's not great to use with speedfocus in particular. It'll last longer than one of these main discs though.

Delene
06-27-2014, 09:41 AM
Thank you for the help. I have moved some stuff around in my macros. Here is what I have so far.

KICKS:

/disc Shadewalker's Synergy RK.III
/pause 1, /alt activate 469 (Stunning Kick)
/pause 1, /doability 7 (Flying Kick)
/pause 1, /doability 9 (Tiger Claw)
/disc Cloud of Fists RK. III

I use this disc alot smashing it every second its up.

DPS 1:

/alt activate 7001 (Zanfi's Whistle)
/pause 1, /disc Zalikor's Fang Rk. III
/pause 1, /alt activate 1235 (Two Finger Wasp)
/pause 1, /disc Heel of Zagali Rk. III
/pause 1, /disc Crane Stance Rk. III

I use both Epic and BP before clicking DPS 1.

DPS 2:

/alt activate 7001
/pause 1, /alt activate 945 (Infusion Thunder)
/pause 1, /disc Zalikor's Fang Rk. III
/pause 1, /disc Speed Focus Discipline

DPS 3:

/alt activate 7001 (Zanfi's Whistle)
/pause 1, /disc Tiger's Balance Rk. II
/pause 1, /alt activate 1235 (Two Finger Wasp)
/pause 1, /alt activate 1012 (Five Point Palm)
/pause 1, /disc Terrorpalm Discipline Rk. III

I will also click the Epic (BP is not up yet) and 2nd Spire and Zalikor's Fang.

If I messed up somewhere or have stuff in wrong order please let me know. I also click Fists of Wu right after the Initial KICKS macro.

I have a lot of fights that last longer then these 3 discs. Arent there more discs that can be created to another macro and stacked with abilities to help them out. Like Jab Through Rk. II, Ironfist Discipline Rk. III, Rapid Kick Discipline, Hundred Fists Discipline, Thunder Kick,

Shouldn't I be using Phantom Partisan Rk. III instead of Cloud of Fists Rk. III? And Eagles Balance Rk. III instead of Tiger's Balance Rk. III?

Gorkeyah
06-27-2014, 02:17 PM
I have a lot of fights that last longer then these 3 discs. Arent there more discs that can be created to another macro and stacked with abilities to help them out. Like Jab Through Rk. II, Ironfist Discipline Rk. III, Rapid Kick Discipline, Hundred Fists Discipline, Thunder Kick,

Shouldn't I be using Phantom Partisan Rk. III instead of Cloud of Fists Rk. III? And Eagles Balance Rk. III instead of Tiger's Balance Rk. III?

Jab through is nothing for dps since you strike through everything anyway. It's not worth anything really.

Ironfist is something else you should be using. It shares a timer with the stuff you listed with it, but ironfist is the best of them.

Phantom partisan, cloud of fists, and Zalikor's Fang are all on the same timer. You can't use all three together. Phantom is sort of an upgrade to Cloud. Both are pet based, and pets can cause problems on raids, plus they tend to die to rampage before they deliver the dps they're tuned to deliver. Therefore I've been using Zalikor's fang instead which isn't pet based.

The base damage of eagles balance is higher than tiger's balance, but the theory is that with two finger wasp on the mob, tigers balance is better since wasp mods it, so I use tigers balance. They're on the same timer so you pick one to use since you can't use them together. Situationally, however, you might choose to use eagle's instead. For instance, on trash mobs eagles is probably better since it might last over more than one mob, and wasp can only be on one of them since it wont have refreshed to use it on each mob.

You didn't list vigorous shuriken in your new stuff. You should be spaming that with flying kick etc. (the quick refresh stuff).

Also, you haven't mentioned destructive force, which you should be using when possible with your other discs (best used with speedfocus or terrorpalm). Destructive force is a frontal melee AE, but it also adds one extra hit per round on your main target. You would use it when an AE is safe or an advantage to use. In other words, you don't use it if you could potentially wake mezzed mobs or hit mobs that aren't meant to be damaged for one reason or another.

Lastly you've apparently dropped 2nd spire from your macros, but it's still usable. It hasn't scaled with our dps gains, so I doubt it adds much. I've been playing with using 3rd spire instead, but haven't proven it to be better or worse. heh

In general I don't even use macros for dps stuff. Partly because I haven't found them to be reliable, and partly because I use keybinding instead which is great for all the stuff you need to spam frequently, while I click discs the old fashioned way since how I use them varies depending on the situation, so there's no point to trying to automate them. I mention this because it means I don't have any specific advice on how macros should be set up.

Delene
06-27-2014, 03:44 PM
Thank you for all your help.

I have made another disc with ironfist, Added Destructive Force to Speed Focus macro, and added Vigorous Shuriken to my KICKS macro. I took out Cloud of Fists and I'm strickly using Zalikor's Fang unless there are those pesky pets. Then going to use Phantom. I plan on using Second Spire with Terrorpalm or Speed Focus or Heel.

Again I thank you for your info.

Gorkeyah
06-27-2014, 04:12 PM
I don't think you want to use 2nd spire with terrorplam. I'm not positive, but it might not stack. Traditionally it's used with speedfocus, unless you want to go 'all in' with heel -in other words use anything and everything that adds something at the same time as heel instead of saving things to use in perhaps better combinations.

Mris
06-27-2014, 05:54 PM
One time it might make sense to use DM again would be while zanfi has faded, but not yet a refreshed to activate again, but I don't bother as zanfi will last long enough for any burn anyway and that zanfi down time is only about 1min.

Also, while it is minor, I know people who will hit DM directly before Heel to take advantage of the +FK damage while FK is refreshing faster than normal. I don't do it, personally, but it seems like a good idea.


I don't think you want to use 2nd spire with terrorplam. I'm not positive, but it might not stack. Traditionally it's used with speedfocus, unless you want to go 'all in' with heel -in other words use anything and everything that adds something at the same time as heel instead of saving things to use in perhaps better combinations.

There's no reason that TP and 2nd won't stack. It's used with SF simply because we're getting the most hits per second under that disc, and 2nd is a flat damage bonus. That said, 2nd lasts longer than SF, so it'll still add to another part of your burn... just not as much. (Destructive Force is another spot that 2nd adds more for, but if you're pairing DF/TP and following up with SF/IoT, 2nd will cover both. If you prefer to pair DF with SF/IoT, well, you've got 2nd in there already.)

Delene
06-27-2014, 06:43 PM
Awesome. Thank you

Gorkeyah
06-27-2014, 11:21 PM
Also, while it is minor, I know people who will hit DM directly before Heel to take advantage of the +FK damage while FK is refreshing faster than normal. I don't do it, personally, but it seems like a good idea.

It doesn't seem like the boost you'd get to a small number of flying kicks would make up for the lost vs hits from having vs unavailable from using dm. Doesn't vs hit for 800ish non-crit at point blank range? How much damage does the dm fk boost give a fk?

Mris
06-28-2014, 12:46 PM
It doesn't seem like the boost you'd get to a small number of flying kicks would make up for the lost vs hits from having vs unavailable from using dm. Doesn't vs hit for 800ish non-crit at point blank range? How much damage does the dm fk boost give a fk?

Quick and dirty math.

DMS has a 30 second lockout. That's ~5 VS hits, at 800 each.

5 x 800 = 4000

DMS FK boost lasts 6 seconds, and gives 395/462/529 damage to each FK. Heel reduces FK to a 1 second reuse, is that correct? So we'll figure, for the sake of human reaction time, 5 FK fires, 3 (or more) kicks per fire, and using rk2, because that's the minimum you'd have if you care about this...

(5 x 3) x 462 = 6930

Now figure the 6 seconds of Tiger Claw boost at 395/462/529, also for 6 seconds, with a 2 second refresh on TC. ToMW bonus will still be 3 for this.

(3 x 3) x 462 = 4158

6930 + 4158 = 11088 - 4000 = 7088

Er... Wow, I've never actually done the math on that before. It's small, true. And it's an endurance hog, using twice the end that VS would over the same duration. That's all with rk2 numbers, of course. The VS numbers are rough, and the DMS boosts are subject to luck. Hm... I must now mediate on my own burn set up...

(Also, if my timers or other math come out wrong, please point it out. Bad numbers... are bad.)

Gorkeyah
06-28-2014, 01:15 PM
I don't think tigers claw is two seconds, but I could be wrong. Not sure on heel fk's.

For me, trying to use dm for that one thing, would make all my other keys awkward since I have vs in my multikey bindings.

cellic
07-03-2014, 05:25 AM
The thing about DM vs Shuriken is that both are such minisqule additions that it really doesn't matter. You'll never notice the DPS difference from taking one over the other, or even from using neither, but you will notice endurance dropping a lot faster if you add in DM to spam button.

Personally I have VS tied to spam key. I can swap it out for DM, but... I'll sometimes want to hold of hitting Synergy for a second or two just so I can start TP first. Which means that, once I hit the spam key (that fires Synergy) DM won't fire anyway cause now I'm using another disc already. So if I want to use it, I'll have to make a separate hotkey just to fire this horribad disc which was horribad even back when it was first introduced, and certainly hasn't gotten any better since.

Delene
07-03-2014, 09:24 AM
I have notice a difference in Endurance. I no longer run out of endurance in a raid fight or while doing HA's. I took DM out of all my macro keys. I have it off to the side just in case I want to click it but I really have no need to.

Zerric
07-03-2014, 01:08 PM
Would love to see some of the high end monks post their keys and setup. I also have been working on updating my rotations and keys.

Saderakh
07-03-2014, 02:28 PM
KICKS:
/disc Shadewalker's Synergy RK.III
/pause 1, /alt activate 469 (Stunning Kick)
/pause 1, /doability 7 (Flying Kick)
/pause 1, /doability 9 (Tiger Claw)
/disc Cloud of Fists RK. III

You've no doubt changed this up some, but it doesn't change the point I'm about to make.

In raid situations, having your spammed abilities setup this way decreases your dps. With the added latency of a raid setting, these abilities will not fire on every single refresh. You can see this in practice by having each ability on the hotbar and watching them not fire for you often. Optimally, you would drop each one on the hotbar, and bind them all to the same key.

When there's new monk apps, I study the parses and very quickly I can compare our kicks, punches/crushes, strikes, and dd's and discern whether they are clicking each one separately with the mouse, using what's pasted above, or using a multi-bind like I mentioned. In short, if a monk app doesn't achieve the expected dps numbers by changing, they either remove themselves because they don't want to change their setup, do not complete the app process due to a lack of dps, or change to a multi-bind and are competitive.

These numbers are more or less made up but give you a general idea. Let's say for example, my burn with the multi-bind is 120Kdps in a given fight. The person using the 5 line macro could expect something like 85K, and someone manually clicking each ability with a mouse could hope for something in the neighborhood of 60K.

The next thing you do is tailor your burn order based on the combined power of your guild to kill any particular NPC deemed burn-worthy.

So what you do for a kill that takes 60s, 120s, 180s, and so on changes how you go about using your abilities.

I've switched to zalikor's fang for the same reason stated above. The monk pet gets in my way, or the way of others, not very often, but often enough, that I've just gotten rid of the thing. The pet is hasted by a bard, but the additional dps isn't worth it to me.

Delene
07-03-2014, 04:16 PM
The only reason I use the macro's is because I haven't figured out how to bind them to a single key yet. I have all my discs on 3 hotbars as well as the macro's on a 4th hotbar. I would much rather use a single key as I have seen really high parse from monks that do this. But when I ask in game ( Even in my own guild ) how they are setup. Other monks don't want to give up their secrets. Or so it seems.

Gorkeyah
07-03-2014, 04:39 PM
Would love to see some of the high end monks post their keys and setup. I also have been working on updating my rotations and keys.

I use two macros. One I is an fd /stand / attack macro to drop agro down, and I double check that it actually worked after I use it. :) (sometimes attack doesn't come back on!) The other macro I have for activating infusion and 2nd spire, but I haven't been using it.

Actually I lied, I have another macro for activating two finger wasp to include a message in our guild monk channel that I just used it, and for MA'ing.

My burn discs and abilities I activate with a mouse depending on how I want to use them since it's situational.

For the frequent use stuff, I have a keybinding setup so that everything fires off my '3' key, which has always been my flying kick key so I'm used to spamming it (the 3 button is no longer flying kick though).

How ever you setup key binding, you need to test it out because it's possible to have something in one spot block things from running in other spots depending on order and other factors.

For instance, I have VS in my '3' key bindings, but if I use drunk monkey, which shares the same timer, my '3' spam gets stuck on VS which appears to be usable (not down and grayed out), but doesn't actually work because DM was used.

My unscientific observation is that perhaps there are different categories of abilities that behave differently. Meaning, melee attacks, spell based stuff, or whatever. I say this because some things will all go down at the same time with a single key press, while others will proceed from left to right activating each next ability in succession as long as the previous ability button is down.

Because of the left to rightness (or up to downness if you have a verticle hotbar), you'll want to organize abilities in the order you want them to run (e.g. synergy before FK stuff), and because of the way keys can block things, you'll want to test your setup to make sure it works as expected.

Now the other thing is you can have this hotbar hidden away in your inteface (e.g. shrunk down tiny or whatever) and it will still work, but I keep mine normal size incase I have or want to click things manually because of some problem, and so I can see that it's working. For instance, if something blocks synergy from working (e.g. no endurance) it can block FK and Tiger buttons from firing since they're down the line from synergy. I can still click them with a mouse, or use the primary hot key assigned to them in such cases.

From memory, this is the order I have for my primary hot bar:

1 assist/ma button
2 FD
3 Bane strike (part of multibind '3' key)
4 ID
5 VS (part of multibind '3' key)
6 mend
7 Synergy (part of multibind '3' key)
8 FK (part of multibind '3' key)
9 Tiger (part of multibind '3' key)
10 Stunning kick (part of multibind '3' key)
11 Z Fang (part of multibind '3' key)
12 range attack (I need to get around to making a range attack multibind hehe)

The non-multibind keys are mostly where they are because I'm used to them being there and it would be tough to change. :)

The multibind is therefore in this order ('3' key is a secondard hotkey for all of them):
Bane, VS, Synergy, FK, Tiger, Stunning Kick, Z-fang

I have bane first because I find it doesn't cause trouble there whether it is up or down.
VS I just kind of stuck there for no particular reason that I recall. Synergy is of course ahead of FK and stunning kick. z-fang had to go somewhere and I wont miss it if it doesn't fire, so it's out at the end. I suppose it might make sense to put VS out at the end also for the same reason. Maybe I'll try moving it.

Gorkeyah
07-03-2014, 04:52 PM
The only reason I use the macro's is because I haven't figured out how to bind them to a single key yet. I have all my discs on 3 hotbars as well as the macro's on a 4th hotbar. I would much rather use a single key as I have seen really high parse from monks that do this. But when I ask in game ( Even in my own guild ) how they are setup. Other monks don't want to give up their secrets. Or so it seems.

I just posted mine. I don't put long running discs in there as you can see. It's just the relatively fast refresh stuff you hit all the time. Do you understand how the key settings work?

For instance, I'm using hotbar 1, so I go into options keyboard settings and pick hotbar1. You'll see two columns. The first column is the standard hot keys 1-9,0,-,= for all the buttons in that hotbar (other hotbars besides 1 might not have any hotkeys by default). The second column is blank be default.

Say you want button 5, 6, and 7 buttons to activate with the 5 key. Click the blank second column space next to the 6 button in the key settings, then hit the 5 on your keyboard. Do the same thing with the 7 button.

Now whenever you hit the 5 key it will activate the 5, 6, and 7 buttons. Since you didn't change the 1st column, the 6 and 7 keys will still activate the 6 and 7 buttons respectively.

What really happens when you hit the 5 key once, will depend on what skills/abilities you have on the 5, 6, and 7 keys. They might all go down on one key press, or one key press might only activate the 5 button, then when you quickly hit the 5 key again, the 5 button will be down, so it will activate the 6 button. Then you hit the 5 button quickly a 3rd time and since 5 and 6 are down, it will activate the 7 button.

In practice once you have this setup, you just spam the 5 button without looking knowing that it will fire anything available to be fired, in the order you have the buttons. You'll also get a lot of chat spam saying such and such isn't ready to run because you're often mashing keys that are already down and haven't refreshed yet. I don't think that's a big deal since we all have chat windows for that sort of spam already and you just need your filters to send it to the right place.

P.S. I'm going from memory so I might not be describing the way the keyboard options look correctly, but I think it's close enough for you to figure it out.

P.P.S. If you want to clear the keyboard setting hotkey you assigned, I believe you click it again, then hit the ESC key.

Mris
07-03-2014, 05:52 PM
I have VS in my '3' key bindings, but if I use drunk monkey, which shares the same timer, my '3' spam gets stuck on VS which appears to be usable (not down and grayed out), but doesn't actually work because DM was used.

The way this works is, if you have 2 abilities on the same timer, and you click the longer reuse, the shorter reuse will gray out when the remaining time is less than the shorter reuse. Example:

Drunken Monkey Style, 30 seconds.
Vigorous Shuriken, 6 seconds.

When you hit DMS, the DMS button grays out, and begins a countdown at 30 seconds. The VS button will appear usable until the countdown reaches 6 seconds, at which point it will display the countdown as normal.

You can also have this occur with Ironfist/Thunderkick, Earthforce/Whirlwind, or EotS/Swift Reflexes. (There are others, but these came to mind as examples.)

Gorkeyah
07-03-2014, 10:52 PM
Thanks. I noticed they don't grey out typically, but didn't notice the pattern.

Tzarok Ignavus
08-19-2014, 01:33 PM
I've moved away from 2ndspire and have been teaming first spire and infusion with speedfocus. Infusion has a great proc that combo'd with 1st and speed goes off all the time. I've seen higher overall dps increase vs. using 2nd spire and teaming infusion elsewhere

Mris
08-19-2014, 05:41 PM
I've moved away from 2ndspire and have been teaming first spire and infusion with speedfocus. Infusion has a great proc that combo'd with 1st and speed goes off all the time. I've seen higher overall dps increase vs. using 2nd spire and teaming infusion elsewhere

Is this really worth it? If 1st is worth it anywhere, most people I've seen have said they use it during Heel and Ironfist to try getting more Thunderfoot procs. Either way, I've never seen convincing math that it actually does enough to bother with.

Tzarok Ignavus
08-19-2014, 06:42 PM
2nd spire is almost worthless, this works for me, but I do need to run some parses. Guess I know what I am doing after raid tonight...

Tzarok Ignavus
08-19-2014, 07:11 PM
Quick 5 min parse with and without 1st spire

raid buffed, full shaman and bard adps support

With 1st spire, ~1k more spell dps, 6% more procs, 32% higher average spell hit dmg

With 2nd spire, no change in overall dps

Mris
08-20-2014, 06:49 PM
Quick 5 min parse with and without 1st spire

raid buffed, full shaman and bard adps support

With 1st spire, ~1k more spell dps, 6% more procs, 32% higher average spell hit dmg

With 2nd spire, no change in overall dps

What were you running on each parse? Which spells accounted for the 1k boost? NO change from 2nd seems suspect to me. Small, sure, but nothing?

5 minute parse, not convinced.

Tzarok Ignavus
08-23-2014, 07:24 PM
Fully raid buffed, minus beastlord stuff, bard - epic, 3rd spite, quick time, fierce eye, shaman - epic, 3rd spire, ancestral aid, ranger - auspice

Speedfocus and Infusion of Thunder, 3600 second parses

With 1st Spire
/tell Tzarok Tzarok -vs- Combat Dummy Fana: -- DMG: 200911494 -- DPS: 55809 -- Scaled: 55809 -- Punch: 197074983 -- DirDmg: 3836511 -- Non-crit rate: 69.3% -- crit rate: 30.7% -- Attempts: 57894 -- Hits: 50898 -- Missed: 6996 -- Accuracy: 87.9% -- Avg Hit: 3947 -- Max hit: 23569 -- DMG to PC: 0

With 2nd Spire
/tell Tzarok Tzarok -vs- Combat Dummy Fana: -- DMG: 201365639 -- DPS: 55935 -- Scaled: 55935 -- Punch: 198547587 -- DirDmg: 2818052 -- Non-crit rate: 69.5% -- crit rate: 30.5% -- Attempts: 58108 -- Hits: 51172 -- Missed: 6936 -- Accuracy: 88.1% -- Avg Hit: 3935 -- Max hit: 9760 -- DMG to PC: 0

With no spires
/tell Tzarok Tzarok -vs- Combat Dummy Fana: -- DMG: 197534980 -- DPS: 54886 -- Scaled: 54886 -- Punch: 194949895 -- DirDmg: 2585085 -- Non-crit rate: 69.9% -- crit rate: 30.1% -- Attempts: 57929 -- Hits: 51029 -- Missed: 6900 -- Accuracy: 88.1% -- Avg Hit: 3871 -- Max hit: 9735 -- DMG to PC: 0

Patife
01-15-2015, 02:46 AM
Follow-up on Spam-keys:

I've two spam keys currently (left out the ranks of discs):

Spam Button 1


/disc Doomwalker's Synergy
/pause 1,/alt act 469 (Stunning Kick)
/pause 1,/doability 1 (Flying Kick)
/pause 1,/doability 4 (Tiger Claw)
/timer 10,/disc Zalikor's Fang


Spam Button 2


/pause 1,/disc Vigorous Shuriken
/pause 1,/alt act 15073 (Banestrike)
/pause 1,/disc Phantom Partisan


these two buttons alone are giving me 22k dps against Combat Dummy Neza (I'm 105) unhasted but w/ancient cloak of flames clicked.

Question 1
Following on the topic, and looking ONLY at the spam keys, would you do anything differently to the spam buttons? Would you weave in some extra stuff?

Question 2
It follows that the DPS buttons (1-4) need to be spaced out.
For DPS1, the disc Crane Stance has a reuse of 10 minutes
For DPS2, the disc Speed Focus has a reuse of 22 minutes
For DPS3, disc Terrorpalm has a reuse of 22 Minutes

This means that within the space of 22 minutes, one can dish out some funky numbers every 7 minutes. My fights take typically 26-30s on most trash mobs. Also, there is the thing about BP and Epic being weaved in.

So, to avoid total boredom, and be smart about your disciplines usage, how do you space out the different DPS keys? (I dont raid btw, so this is all group trash + group obtainable named) I guess this is a question on how to be prepared to provide some decent DPS numbers on named at all times, and how to prioritize/hold certain abilities back while using and reusing stuff for trash.

Gorkeyah
01-16-2015, 11:42 PM
You should add torrent of fists to your spam keys. Also since fang and partisan are on the same timer, I'm not sure why you have both in your spam keys. Lastly, I'd do key binding for those spam abilities rather than macros.

You didn't mention iron fist, eye of storm, or heel, so those are more discs you can activate (not spam). Also two finger wasp touch, infusion of thunder, bp, and 7th vet can be used with other discs. Epic is essentially no dps. I use it as a 10k HP heal/buff when appropriate.

Group game you either burn discs to speed up killing (eg during lesson burns), or save them for oh shit moments or named fights. On a lesson burn, start with longer reuse stuff first as it can be available again before lesson is over that way.

Yyevil
08-26-2015, 07:26 PM
Is this really worth it? If 1st is worth it anywhere, most people I've seen have said they use it during Heel and Ironfist to try getting more Thunderfoot procs. Either way, I've never seen convincing math that it actually does enough to bother with.

1st Spire Parses i did when I was still raiding two years ago.

_______________

1st Spire is a proc modifier - I parsed it long ago and it added nothing. Zero. nada. So I decided to parse it again 4-5 years later.

Setup here is common raid buffs. No Tribute. FOUR damage procs on two weapons, plus Fists of Fury is a proc off of an AA.

NO 1st Spire (control)
/g Combat Dummy Beza in 24941s, 337274k @13523 --- Yyevil 333738k @13381 (98.99%) --- Yyevil 3536k @142 (1.05%)

/tell Yyevil Yyevil -vs- Combat Dummy Beza: -- DMG: 333738330 -- DPS: 13381 -- Scaled: 13381 -- Hit: 333738330 -- Non-crit rate: 100% -- Attempts: 201770 -- Hits: 160899 -- Missed: 40871 -- Accuracy: 79.7% -- Avg Hit: 2074 -- Max hit: 4480 -- DMG to PC: 0

/tell Yyevil Yyevil -vs- Combat Dummy Beza: -- DMG: 3535782 -- DPS: 142 -- Scaled: 142 -- DirDmg: 3535782 -- Non-crit rate: 100% -- Attempts: 7834 -- Hits: 7834 -- Accuracy: 100% -- Avg Hit: 451 -- Max hit: 1097 -- DMG to PC: 0

Combat Dummy Beza on 4/22/2013

Yyevil- 1040
--- Fists of Fury - 1040

Produced by GamParse v1.0.3

Rate from Fists of Fury AA - 2.50 Procs/minute
Rate from 4 direct damage weapon procs - 18.9 Procs/minute

YES 1st Spire ON
/g Combat Dummy Beza in 40592s, 553984k @13648 --- Yyevil 553984k @13648 (100.07%)

/tell Yyevil Yyevil -vs- Combat Dummy Beza: -- DMG: 553984423 -- DPS: 13648 -- Scaled: 13648 -- Hit: 545613732 -- DirDmg: 8370691 -- Non-crit rate: 79.9% -- crit rate: 20.1% -- Attempts: 342746 -- Hits: 276948 -- Missed: 65798 -- Accuracy: 80.8% -- Avg Hit: 2000 -- Max hit: 4480 -- DMG to PC: 0

Combat Dummy Beza on 4/23/2013

Yyevil - 1754
--- Fists of Fury - 1754

Produced by GamParse v1.0.3

Rate from Fists of Fury AA - 2.59 Procs/minute
Rate from 4 direct damage weapon procs - 21.02 Procs/minute

Proc Difference % = (1st Spire - No 1st Spire)/(1st Spire)*100

Rate from Fists of Fury AA - 0.09/2.59 * 100 = 3.6% more FoF procs WITH 1st Spire
Rate from 4 direct damage weapon procs - 2.12/21.02 * 100 = 11.2% more weapon damage procs WITH 1st Spire


This was my summary from 2 years ago as well, and it hold today.
________________________________________________
1st Spire is clearly doing now what it never did before and that's boost proc rate. 10.6% over 10+ hour parses is statistically significant.

The overall significance of a ~10% proc. boost may or may not justify it's use with Heel of Zagali is running to get more Thunderfoot procs, but 2nd Spire adds so little extra damage to every hit and since speed is now our 3rd best discs by ALOT, I think 1st Spire is better used with Heel as opposed to 2nd Spire with Speed.

Kaliaila
08-28-2015, 06:02 AM
Follow-up on Spam-keys:

I've two spam keys currently (left out the ranks of discs):

Spam Button 1


/disc Doomwalker's Synergy
/pause 1,/alt act 469 (Stunning Kick)
/pause 1,/doability 1 (Flying Kick)
/pause 1,/doability 4 (Tiger Claw)
/timer 10,/disc Zalikor's Fang


Spam Button 2


/pause 1,/disc Vigorous Shuriken
/pause 1,/alt act 15073 (Banestrike)
/pause 1,/disc Phantom Partisan


these two buttons alone are giving me 22k dps against Combat Dummy Neza (I'm 105) unhasted but w/ancient cloak of flames clicked.

Well since this thread was rezzed anyway; I would suggest as someone else stated that you drop Zalikor's Fang from the first key (if you want you can always but it in the second key and put a # in front of either it or Phantom depending on whichever you wish to use in a given situation. I would also say that you should move Vigorous Shuriken (especially with recent timer changes) to the first button since it has a short 6 second reuse on it, while the other items on your 2nd spam key have noticeably longer reuse times. Add Torrent of Fists to the second spam key as well.

1st Spire is clearly doing now what it never did before and that's boost proc rate. 10.6% over 10+ hour parses is statistically significant.
Yyevil, just to clarify the part about 1st spire doing more now than ever before is that referring to the fact that now more than one proc can go off at a time or just to your displayed parse compared to when the Spires originally were released?

Yyevil
08-29-2015, 07:09 PM
Yyevil, just to clarify the part about 1st spire doing more now than ever before is that referring to the fact that now more than one proc can go off at a time or just to your displayed parse compared to when the Spires originally were released?

No. That statement was two years old, so has nothing to do with multiple procs.

That statement was in regard to the parse of 1st spire I did 5-6 years ago where it was doing nothing. Two years ago someone on here said the Dev's fixed it so the parses I just posted were proving to my guild monks that 1st spire was indeed doing SOMETHING, where it was doing nothing at all before from it's implementation till about 2 years ago.