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Rallon
02-24-2014, 05:36 AM
Since these are on the same timer which has the higher dps?

I currently use Ironfist with Crane and then hit chest clicky..which is reasonable dps but keep reading that Thunderkick is one of our top disc's. I'm not seeing this...soooo guess I need to add something to it?

All comments welcomed.

Aggememnon
02-24-2014, 06:48 AM
Must mean Thunder*foot*

Rallon
02-24-2014, 07:12 AM
Thunder foot is passive though, I thought it was disc others talk about?

If not then should I just continue using Ironfist + Crane?

Aggememnon
02-24-2014, 08:07 AM
Afaik yes. Thunderkick is the 'old' version of Ironfist and has a 75% mod versus the Ironfist one of 260%.

Any links to where are you reading that Thunderfoot is bigger?

Ishtass
02-24-2014, 10:04 AM
but keep reading that Thunderkick is one of our top disc's.

Not true. I think you're talking about our "Heel" line.

Gorkeyah
02-24-2014, 10:31 AM
Thunderkick's shorter timer means you might still use it with crane on trash, though. For a 'burn' though, you'd use it with iron.

Rallon
02-24-2014, 12:04 PM
No links, just others saying that thunder was a big gun..guess I got the wrong thunder.

I'll stick with linking iron and crane then and heel with infusion..they both seem to do decent damage.

Thanks for the input.

KIILLZ
02-24-2014, 02:05 PM
curious? are we seeing a bigger output with iron and crane ? I heard crane heel with iot on a burn, tho sometime back pretty sure the read was iot iron and crane.

Gorkeyah
02-24-2014, 03:08 PM
curious? are we seeing a bigger output with iron and crane ? I heard crane heel with iot on a burn, tho sometime back pretty sure the read was iot iron and crane.

You go in with iron running, hit synergy, etc, and then crane. Click off iron and start heel and burn as normal. That's how you use iron on a short fight.

On long fights, I save the best combos for adps clicks, so I will even save infusion for speed, rather than use it with heel.

KIILLZ
02-24-2014, 03:47 PM
no real short fights anymore on cotf mobs, even RoF for that matter. You still start that way on long one too Gork?

Nedrom
02-24-2014, 04:44 PM
This is really a non-discussion.

Not only is Ironfist better, it's even better now with Tiger Claw and Flying Kick unlinked.

Ironfist rk1 - Level 88 Disc

Increase Dragon Punch Damage Modifier by 215%
2: Increase Eagle Strike Damage Modifier by 215%
3: Increase Flying Kick Damage Modifier by 215%
5: Increase Round Kick Damage Modifier by 215%
6: Increase Innate Damage Modifier by 215%
10: Increase Kick Damage Modifier by 215%

Thunderkick - Level 52 disc

1: Increase Flying Kick Damage Modifier by 75%
2: Increase Chance to Hit by 20% with Flying Kick

The *only* benefit of Thunderkick is the 10 minute re-use, however, Ironfist has AA's to reduce the recast on that one.

KIILLZ
02-24-2014, 05:02 PM
MY discussion was not on Thunder kick it was referring to Heel Of Kojai... just saying. BUT duly noted its all why we are here to discuss.

Nedrom
02-24-2014, 08:49 PM
MY discussion was not on Thunder kick it was referring to Heel Of Kojai... just saying. BUT duly noted its all why we are here to discuss.

I was responding to the OP.

Gorkeyah
02-25-2014, 12:09 PM
no real short fights anymore on cotf mobs, even RoF for that matter. You still start that way on long one too Gork?

My long fight, without a lot of emotes that interrupt things, typically goes like this:

adps1 (group bard/shaman/beast HH): terrorpalm, destructive force, 5pt, crane kick, tiger's balance, BP (might click off to get the finishing kick with terror), wasp, zanfi

while waiting for adps refresh: eye of storm, maybe glyph, cop3 if nobody else is doing it

adps2 (group bard/shaman): Heel, maybe use with infusion or 7th, maybe not, maybe 2nd or 1st spire (forget spires half the time now heh)

while waiting for adps refresh: sometimes I'll use 7th or infusion here if I don't think I'll get to speedfocus

adps3 (group bard/shaman): ironfist if crane is refreshed, reactivate other stuff if it's refreshed like zanfi or bp

while waiting for adps... crap have nothing! or maybe eye is refreshed, or maybe fights almost over so use speedfocus. Might even use the new impenetrable that's suppose to have a dps boost.

adps4 (group bard/shaman): speedfocus plus infusion or 7th.

---

Timings aren't exact and maybe there's some room for improvement by shifting things around to get more re-use out of quick stuff.

For instance, I like to use terrorpalm with beast thing that has group hundred hands effect, so I go with that if beast uses it first. However, without a beast, or with a different order, it might work out that you could use infusion with heel first, and then still use infusion later down the line with speedfocus if it's refreshed by the time you get to it.

My guild has had some long fights because of numbers, or weak dps, with the non-progression BG raid being the perfect example. I'd have to dig through some parses to find examples... hmmm one was 752s and I managed to end up with 50kdps for the fight with my t2 rof gear. 50's is good for me on these long fights. First burn might be in the low 100's.

The only show-off short fight I can think of lately is the burn on the second dragon in Kael. That's when you can use the ironfist shenanigans to boost your dps. -especially now with the crit fix. :)

Gorkeyah
02-25-2014, 12:11 PM
The *only* benefit of Thunderkick is the 10 minute re-use, however, Ironfist has AA's to reduce the recast on that one.

Ironfist is still over 20min I think, so it still can makes sense to use thunderkick with crane on trash leading up to a boss where you use ironfist.

Zenshiss
02-28-2014, 09:42 AM
I just wanted to jump in here and say that Gorkeyah's burn orders are pretty much spot on for the best you can do with current abilities, especially the short burn order. He made writeups quite a while ago extremely similar to what he has above, and I adopted them when I came back to the game.

I two-box the adps bard in our melee group (so even with hotkeys I can't get all my adps on perfectly right at fight start), and our guild isn't the best at getting debuffs and adps on as rapidly as possible, but with T1 RoF weapons and no BST in group, some of my best parses recently include:

Kael: Yeli 2.0:


Damage by Total % of Total Time DPS Scaled Hits Max hit Avg hit Special
Total 78606742 100% 74 1062253 1062253 8134 441564 9663
Zenshiss + pets 7300980 9.29% 74 98662 98662 932 165142 7833

BG Velishan (the tank n spank):


Damage by Total % of Total Time DPS Scaled Hits Max hit Avg hit Special
Total 288364464 100% 448 643671 643671 50918 464108 5663
Zenshiss + pets 26717161 9.27% 443 60310 59637 5395 464108 4952 G 7


The only thing I've not been able to get a benefit from so far is delaying IoT and Spire for Speed Focus. I have however noted that throwing Earthforce Rk 2/3 into your orders is very nice--the rapid refresh lets you get it in at least twice in a medium length fight.

For simplicity, the only difference I use between a short burn and medium/long is the "Ironfist for FPP + Crane then click off"...my order is basically:

Before fight : poison
Before engage: BP, Zan Fi, Epic 2.0
At engage: Auto-attack, Drunken Monkey 2, Earthforce
At raid HARD BURN call (we use this to remind all adps):

click off Earthforce, Tigers Balance, IoT, Second Spire, Two Finger Wasp, Ironfist, Shadewalker's, FPP, Crane, Feign Death, click off Ironfist, Heel, Spam SWS/Stunning/Tiger Claw/Flying Kick/Zalikors (or phantom partisan if no ae).

When Heel fades, DM, Terrorpalm, spam. If fight's not over, Speedfocus + Destructive Force (if no mezzed), hopefully shaman epic hits again here.

If it's a "long" fight, Ironfist is saved until after Terrorpalm. Earthforce jumps in somewhere between TP and IF when it refreshes, and Eye goes in when I have nothing left.

I just recently started using Glyph's consistently, and haven't yet found the perfect spot for it. If available, 7th goes in after adps cycle 1 wears off.