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sojuu
07-03-2013, 03:46 PM
Since there is no NDA for this beta, they are asking for new disc ideas for the next expansion. And figured for those not in beta if anyone has any ideas those of us that are in beta could relay those on. Any thoughts?

sojuu
07-03-2013, 03:58 PM
Also figured could give a list of what is already suggested, also giving a format of what they would like to see:


Arrested
Class - Monk
Ability name - Head-kick
Description - innate ability to do a finishing blow type of proc on mobs significantly lower level then us while meleeing.
Mechanics - innate proc during melee
Purpose - to be able to quickly kill mobs that don't give a lot of experience but are needed while camping for something
Potential problems - N/A


Thrillho
Class: Monk
Ability Name: Infusion of Rage
Description: Increase run speed of target NPC
Mechanics: Target NPC gets a run speed increase equal to bard speed. NPC must be above 95% HP. PC must be at top of aggro list to land Infusion of Rage on NPC. Duration: 60 seconds. Fades when caster is removed from (top of?) aggro list. Fades when mob drops below 95% HP.
Purpose: Pulling. When chain pulling in large zones (BD, EW) we regularly end up outside of the experience radius when a mob our group is killing dies. Leaving the fight earlier hurts the DPS of the group. Waiting until a mob dies hurts the overall experience of the group.
Potential Problems: Dead monks who don't pop Impenetrable / Earthforce. Aggro list functions will eliminate monks trolling other groups who may not want a fast mob.


Sojuu
Class: Monk
Ability Name: Dance of Wu
Timer: 9 - Would be nice to have this as a 30 second reuse for utility purposes
Description: AE stun- you perform a dazzling martial arts display that distracts your enemies
Mechanics: Stuns all mobs within a short distance of the monk performing this act
Purpose: Would give us an area stun to help add to our utility we can offer in group and in raid
Potential Problems: Agroing mobs


Sojuu
Class: Monk
Ability Name: Body transfer
Timer: 9
Description: After years of meditating monks have found a way to pull their spirit and body to a fellow group member
Mechanics: Upon using this ability it would summon our body to a targeted group member
Purpose: Would give us another pulling tool for when we have a set of mobs to split and imitate death has not refreshed yet. Would be nice to be able to use this while feign death aswell
Potential Problems: N/A


Tolkeen
Class: Monk
Ability Name: Stance of <insert lore related Master/Grandmaster monks name> Example: Stance of Po, Stance of Wu, Stance of Zan Fi, etc etc
Description: Through the mastery of the mind and body a monk learns to channel the spirit of those that came before him (or her... or "it" in the case of drakkin).
Mechanics:

Essentially, we'd see 2-3 versions of the stance concept which independently focus on dps / tanking / survivability.

DPS Stance:
•Accuracy Modifier
•Increase critical strike chance
•Increased critical damage modifier
•Increased innate endurance regen
•Flurry modifier
Could be balanced by a small increase to incoming damage (10% from some mobs would be 1-2k more damage per hit), slight reduction to AC, and possibly a reduction in movement speed.

Tanking Stance:
•Increase Hate Modifier
•Increased AC
•Increased Mitigation
•Chance to proc an Earthforce/Impenetable type rune
Could be balanced by a penalty to triple attack, penalty to flurry rate, or a 'slow' like effect to avoid monks becoming godly dpsing tanks with this running.

Survivability stance:
•% modifier to incoming heals
•Innate regen increased significantly
•Innate mitigation of detrimental magical effects
•Chance to proc a spell only rune, similar in nature to Earthforce/Impenetable type runes
•Increased run speed
Could be balanced by a penalty to endurance regeneration, reduction to AC, and penalties to flurry rate / triple attack.

Purpose: To add a dynamic element to playing the monk class by giving a means to adapt to a variety of roles and situations over long periods of time versus sporadic bursts via various disciplines.

Potential Problems: Obviously stacking issues could result in an explosive increase to dps/tanking/survivability, but remaining aware of that the suggest areas to add in negative effects to the stances provide an innate balance point. We gain dps, but die fast. We tank better, but dps worse. We survive passive damage (non-tanking situations), but cannot tank nor dps quite as well. The key to the stance concept would be balancing the gains versus losses so that a) there is a definitive trade off and b) that each stance is viable and has a use.


Tolkeen
Class: Monk
Ability Name: White Lotus fighting style
Description: The monk enters a trance like fighting style focusing on increasing damage from special attacks.
Mechanic:

White Lotus Fighting Style:
Endurance Cost: 1850 + 30 up keep
Recast: 1 minute
Timer: 14
Duration: 1 minute
•Add effect: White Lotus Flying Kick Boost
•Add effect: White Lotus Tiger Claw Boost
•Add effect: White Lotus Force Strike
•Increase Damage Bonus by 100 with 1H Blunt
•Increase Damage Bonus by 200 with 2H Blunt
•Increase Damage Bonus by 115 with Hand To Hand
•Increase Chance to Critical Hit by 20% with All Skills
White Lotus Flying Kick Boost
Increase damage bonus by 615 with flying kick

White Lotus Tiger Claw Boost
Increased damage bonus by 615 with tiger claw

White Lotus Force Strike (3 counters on use of WLFS +1 or 2 counters per rank)
Flying Kick Attack for 1500 with 10000% Accuracy Mod
Tiger Claw Attack for 1500 with 10000% Accuracy Mod


Purpose: To replace Drunken Monkey Style with a modern and functional version of itself. With changes to how our "Technique of Master Wu" AA functions (and to my knowledge most monks buff-blocked the less desirable effects of DMS anyways), the new disc would only modify flying kick & tiger claw, with both buffs running concurrently with 1 minute durations, along with the base buff which has the damage bonus and critical hit chance increase effect.

White Lotus Force Strike is styled after the 'finishing kick effect' from our BP click, and is intended to give the ability added benefit in situations where we cannot refresh the discipline (due to disc timer being utilized).

The monk community's problem with Drunken Monkey Style at its release was that it had a massive endurance cost relative to its benefits. In an attempt to mimic some of that mentality with WLFS the endurance upkeep is high with a relatively short refresh putting monks into a situation of managing its use against all of our other tools & the disc timer itself. The Force Strike component is largely in place to give the disc a random chance to reward its use.

Potential Problems: I set the endurance cost high in an attempt to mimic DMS when it was first released, but in this iteration I have attempted to give ideas on how to balance the intense endurance cost with viable options of desirable effects for the ability. In reality, 'as is', the endurance cost could go up a tad to just shy of the 2100 or 2200 range without a huge issue. However, if it was decided to remove/reduce the various effects then the endurance cost should be reduced to between 1200-1450 endurance base cost.


Tolkeen
Class: Monk
Ability Name: Balance of Sun and Moon
Description: Balance of Sun and Moon mirrored within ascends a mortal.
Mechanic:

Balance of Sun and Moon
Hundred Hands Effect (25)
Increase Accuracy by 175%
Increase All Skills Minimum Damage Modifier by 95%
Increase All Skills Damage Modifier by 90%


Purpose: Upgrades our level 63 disc Speed Focus by adding in the effects of our Infusion of Thunder AA into the disc itself. This would allow us to use the AA in other discipline combinations, and brings this outdated disc into present times. Different ranks could vary through increasing the accuracy and minimum damage modifier. The amount of discs, aa's, and clicks required to effectively dps has grown excessive and to blend some combos into discs all of their own would be very kind - my carpal tunnel syndrome thanks you.

Potential Problems: There would be few stacking issues to merit concern. However, the accuracy modifier would require some testing to find a balance point. The all skills minimum damage mod and all skills damage mod could use some testing as 95/90 is ahead of where Infusion of thunder currently is, but it was last updated in VoA and our needs as a class have changed since then. So, it might prove through testing that 95/90 is perfect or it might prove it could stand a smaller bump to 105/100 or 100/95.

Tolkeen
Class: Monk
Ability Name: Infuriating Shuriken
Description: A shuriken aimed to strike a sensitive area angering its target.
Mechanic:

Infuriating Shuriken
Decrease hit points by 1 (or whatever number suits folks, this is not a dps tool)
Increase Hate by 100
Endurance cost: 300
Recast: 12s
Timer: 14

Purpose: To provide monks with a means to generate aggro on a single target where proc augs or scorpion potions are not viable. I've often found myself in a situation where I need a tool to generate some aggro which can be mixed in with pulling tools (ever MM a mob off someone and watch it run right back?). It is situational, and a bit on the random/fluff/utility side of discs and needs, but something I think would prove to come into its own after having it for a bit -- A bit like DMS or CoF, disliked at first, but after awhile monks came to like'em both.

Potential Problems: None that I can see. It's possible the hate amount is too low to fulfill the discs purpose, but I'm fairly clueless as to 'what is a reasonable hate value'. I checked out a variety of hate generating spells and 100 was on the low side it seems for today's game, but this isn't really suppose to be a aggro maintaining tool. Just something by which to pull aggro from the shadowkiter so a monk can drag a mob back to the raid, or pull the mob of the crazed merc that defied the puller marking, or off the wizard, cleric, or whatever that got aggro after the tank died.



Sojuu
Class: - Monk.
Ability Name: - Echoing chant
Description: - The monks chant lingers in the NPCs mind, keeping the NPC focused on chasing down the noise.
Mechanics: - A pulling ability that prevents the monk from outrunning agro
Purpose: - Some pulls get to be very long and sometimes were pulling so far away we either outrun the mob were pulling or we loose xp from the group killing from trying to walk the mob back
Potential Problems: - The mob may agro extra mobs training our own group.
Note: I would prefer this as an AA but will take it as a disc like vigorous shurikan.







These are all copied and pasted directly from beta to give us a record of whats been asked and maybe to help us think of more. The ones I suggested not all were my original idea's some were things I saw suggested in the past I thought we could carry forward and ask for again.

Chumpp01
07-08-2013, 11:10 PM
It might be wise to stear clear of any decap/headshot typ disc/AAs. we don't need other classes calling for our dps to be rained in do to us having those abilitys.
How about a true upgrade to the dragonfang/zalikors fang one that is an upgrade over having to spam cast cloud of fist. anything to reduce the amout of spam pets is always a good thing on raids. The upgrade to drunken monkey sounds cool as well as the speed focas upgrade and some typ of disc to help with ae ramp would be nice too. the swift reflexes disc sounded good on paper but its kinda weak and only really use for it is in raids.

sensei savager
07-09-2013, 01:29 PM
Heard beastlords got a nice HH effect thing that lasts for 90s with RoF launch? think its 22 to our 25 with speedfocus? might be a good reason to ask for an upgraded speedfocus. Qulas probably knows more than I do about it

Ishtass
07-09-2013, 06:07 PM
I think you'd have better luck calling for a nerf to bst's than getting a higher HH effect on speedfocus. Monks need something besides speed at this point, we're at a wall with what dev is willing to do (game limitations) and it reduces the aDPS we can obtain from other classes.

Gorkeyah
07-09-2013, 10:18 PM
We've got good dps now, assuming they don't boost other melee like crazy. We're still ok at tanking and surviving, so maybe the only thing left is something group/raid beneficial, though I know some don't like that idea. heh Or utility.

Aggememnon
07-10-2013, 08:06 AM
If beast gets 22 hh (90, group?) it makes a mockery of SF (42 sec, self). Especially since they said they would not be handing out hh effects. I don't get it. If they are giving beats better/longer hh, I think we would be well justified in some serious modifications to our SF (mods rather than +hh boost)..

Personally I don't want to see anything added to pulling. We have the tools we need and many classes can pull (if ever needed). I'd rather not be forced back into a 'better' pulling roll.

I'm happy to see zerk/rog get improved burst, but if they again consistently both out burn us by a significant margin, then I'd like to see monks excel on sustained. As many have said though - I think we all need to be somewhat interchangable.

brogett
07-10-2013, 04:19 PM
Heard beastlords got a nice HH effect thing that lasts for 90s with RoF launch? think its 22 to our 25 with speedfocus? might be a good reason to ask for an upgraded speedfocus. Qulas probably knows more than I do about it

[37076] Frenzy of Spirit
Classes: BST/254
Target: Self
Beneficial: Blockable
Casting: 0s
Duration: 60s (10 ticks), Extendable: Yes, Dispelable: Yes
7: Increase Melee Haste by 136%
8: Increase ATK by 450
11: Decrease Weapon Delay by 24%
Text: Your body channels the spirits of battle.
Increases your melee speed and attack power slightly for up to %z.

It's been there since November (launch of RoF) so I guess whether it is overpowered depends on whether you are currently seeing beastlords beat you on parses. If not, then don't get overly worried about it.

It's self only. There appears to be a group version of the same buff, but without the HH slot.

Aggememnon
07-11-2013, 05:51 AM
This seems pretty powerful to me, when SF is a flat hh 25 effect for 42 secs fully extended. With the extra attack, longer duration (is it extended with BL AAs/focus?), on paper it looks better. Of course that depends on how it works too, as I see that there are a number of different levels of the hh effect. Will it have a cooldown shared with Kolos?

Rasputyn
07-11-2013, 03:33 PM
[37076] Frenzy of Spirit
Classes: BST/254
Target: Self
Beneficial: Blockable
Casting: 0s
Duration: 60s (10 ticks), Extendable: Yes, Dispelable: Yes
7: Increase Melee Haste by 136%
8: Increase ATK by 450
11: Decrease Weapon Delay by 24%
Text: Your body channels the spirits of battle.
Increases your melee speed and attack power ***slightly*** for up to %z.



HH24= Slight increase. Makes sense. Just like driving 70mph and slightly increasing your speed to 150mph is a thing.

newkainn
07-14-2013, 12:18 PM
head kick will be awesome

Kaliaila
07-14-2013, 10:26 PM
Head kick is only acceptable if it is changed to "Boot to the Head"

Yyevil
07-15-2013, 04:49 PM
head kick will be awesome

No it won't. I don't want this line. It's stupid easy and makes for shitty players that don't know how to play their toons. Monks survived as a class as down trodden as we were because we HAD to be good to be valued. Our class sucked so bad only truly elite players remained monks in large raid guilds. If you were medicore you played something else.

The Rogue, zerker and ranger classes are full of full of crap maxed players that maxed on easy mode. I do not want this for our class. Ever.

newkainn
07-16-2013, 12:14 AM
well that s your opinion. ill be thrilled to have something comparable to rangers and zerkers for fast aa's and lvling up some alt toons. i think you should just drop a note to the devs to leave your account's out

Aggememnon
07-16-2013, 04:57 AM
moot point - I think finishing blow type effects are all gone now. I think of melee while we can't get the assasinate/decap amount of AAs (decap seems MUCH better than assasinate), we are not that far from rogues. AAs come pretty fast on partisan tasks etc, so its nt really a consideration (to me)...

Ishtass
07-16-2013, 09:44 AM
All old lines have been discontinued. Safe to say they won't suddenly give them to us.

Yyevil
07-16-2013, 06:33 PM
well that s your opinion. ill be thrilled to have something comparable to rangers and zerkers for fast aa's and lvling up some alt toons. i think you should just drop a note to the devs to leave your account's out

I think you need to learn to play your characters properly and quit thinking easy mode. God level a ranger if you want stupid easy mode, and join the lemmings who already have.

Kaliaila
07-17-2013, 03:49 AM
All old lines have been discontinued. Safe to say they won't suddenly give them to us.
These are the same Dev's that: have told us that giving us (and Bards) "Run6-8" was a mistake and they are not going to give anymore, but then give at least 2 other classes at least one or all of ranks we got; wouldn't give us any upgrade to Speed Focus because it is too OP, but gave Bsts a self buff that is innately 12 seconds longer than our fully extended version has one less HH but has a +atk and another effect on it; and told us that they wouldn't hasten our Imitate Death any further because it would infringe too much on Bard fade, then gave everyone a similar version which is cheaper AA wise for the recast time which is only a minute longer.

There are a ton of examples of the Dev's telling Class1 "No we are not going to create any more ranks of this unique ability you have" for some real or imaginary reason and then giving said ability/AA to a number of other classes or even everyone.

Ishtass
07-17-2013, 09:32 AM
I am well aware. But for the immediate future (read as: this release and probably at least the next one), they are not giving out more ranks for current lines, and no new lines will be started. They have made that quite clear.

99% of the time when they go back on their word, it's been a considerable amount of time from when they said it, and it probably involves devs that were not working on the team when the original message was conveyed.

Rten
07-18-2013, 12:38 PM
IMO they are making all classes increasingly cookie cutter and seem to be trying hard to level the playing field. I expect we will continue to be normalized in that way as will other classes. How often on your raid parses are you seeing a Beast Lord making the top 10 for DPS? It seems pretty damn rare for our raids. So I am not surprised at all to hear that they are getting modifications that seem likely to up their DPS. I am not endorsing, suggesting, or approving/disapproving... I am just commenting on what I think I am seeing. IMO things are getting increasingly reasonably leveled in the over all playing field. Our zerkers can do amazing dps, but when was the last time you heard someone say, "lets get Zerker_01 to off tank that mob?" Us, rangers, rog all seem to have pluses and minuses but IMO for the first time ever in EQ history I am starting to feel we have roughly situationally equal value. Yes when it comes to PLing or certain mob or situational encounters, each class has different strengths and weaknesses. And yes our ADPS or raid benefit is non-existent, but we do have some very nice compensations IMO.

I think if you are looking for the old school "class defining" trait, it is not likely to happen. And I do not believe Devs are putting huge amounts of unique thought into each classes AA, but I also think that we will see fewer and fewer of the abusive differences that were never really intended (lol think CH procing monk gloves). I would paraphrase most of the complaints I have made and/or I have read as "how come I/they are different?" And uniformity is simpler to code, so I expect increasing similarity to be the rule for the foreseeable future.

As always, this is just my rambly opinion!

Yyevil
07-18-2013, 08:08 PM
IMO they are making all classes increasingly cookie cutter and seem to be trying hard to level the playing field. I expect we will continue to be normalized in that way as will other classes. How often on your raid parses are you seeing a Beast Lord making the top 10 for DPS? It seems pretty damn rare for our raids. So I am not surprised at all to hear that they are getting modifications that seem likely to up their DPS. I am not endorsing, suggesting, or approving/disapproving... I am just commenting on what I think I am seeing. IMO things are getting increasingly reasonably leveled in the over all playing field. Our zerkers can do amazing dps, but when was the last time you heard someone say, "lets get Zerker_01 to off tank that mob?" Us, rangers, rog all seem to have pluses and minuses but IMO for the first time ever in EQ history I am starting to feel we have roughly situationally equal value. Yes when it comes to PLing or certain mob or situational encounters, each class has different strengths and weaknesses. And yes our ADPS or raid benefit is non-existent, but we do have some very nice compensations IMO.

I think if you are looking for the old school "class defining" trait, it is not likely to happen. And I do not believe Devs are putting huge amounts of unique thought into each classes AA, but I also think that we will see fewer and fewer of the abusive differences that were never really intended (lol think CH procing monk gloves). I would paraphrase most of the complaints I have made and/or I have read as "how come I/they are different?" And uniformity is simpler to code, so I expect increasing similarity to be the rule for the foreseeable future.

As always, this is just my rambly opinion!

I see where you're going with that and it may be very true. I'd say the one caveat to add to what you said is that the Dev team is still pretty new. i would say they likely did not have much opportunity for creativity in content or player balance/progression with the end of the UF to HoF story line. Thus I think it will be very interesting to see where thing go from here on out in EQ. I like where the Dev's are right now except the spell/skill guy. he obviously how no passion and no clue where classes are or what they need and he needs another job. i won't say fired cause he may have his place, but he obviously has no passion or care for his primary task.