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Nedrom
05-21-2013, 09:54 AM
Hello Monks!

I got a PM from Elidroth on EQLive forums and he mentioned that he looked into the issue with Burst of Power and how 181 AA only gave us about 30 dps.

Parse here: http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/showpost.php?p=312095&postcount=168

His response: "It isn't bugged. Burst of Power increases the skill cap for Triple Attack. Triple Attack gains may simply be over the soft-cap and giving diminishing returns."

He is willing to refund some ranks back for us if that is something we'd like, however, I'm wondering if it would be a possibility that something be done about the skill itself rather than refunding the AA to make it more worthwhile.

What are your thoughts? I'm going to give him the link to this thread.

Obiziana
05-21-2013, 10:06 AM
Honestly I think the refund is the best idea. While altering the skill would probably be interesting, the amount of dev time that it might require would probably mean it would never happen. A refund is something that could happen in short order and save a some people from buying further ranks of a useless skill.

Ughbash
05-21-2013, 11:08 AM
So has anyone parsed what the softcap appears to be? Or will eldiroth tell us what it is?

I mean if the softcap is you will only get a triple attack 50 percent of the time, and the AA gives us 50% and buffs give us 20% and Skill gives is 30% then we need the cap removed entirely.

If the AA gave us 20 percent skill gave us 30 percent and buffs 20 percent then raising the limit might help.

I think we need more information. What does the softcap limit triple attack to, what percent triple attack do we get currently from Skill, from AA and from Buffs.

Without knowing how they interact we can't give a good response. My preference would be for them to change it so our AA actualy did something rather then just refund them.

Ishtass
05-21-2013, 11:12 AM
If they could make it a little more worthwhile (maybe giving us more triple attack per rank since it's softcap, and should add a little more damage), I'd obviously prefer that.

If they can't do something to increase the damage (even a little), I'd still rather keep it. It's more useful than Innate Wis to us, but people still spend the points when they run out of things to buy. I'd take an extra 30dps when I'm maxing out AA vs nothing.

Gorkeyah
05-21-2013, 11:29 AM
From the point of view of someone who is max AA and already bought these, I say leave as is. It might not help much but it does a little. You wont do me any good refunding them. Others can know/learn not to bother with this AA line until they're stuck with nothing but similar useless AA's.

I also don't think it's worth trying to make it more useful. The main reason being that our DPS is fine now, so why try to get changes that would further increase it? Or should they nerf something else to make room for this AA line having an impact? Not worth fussing over it, I think.

sensei savager
05-21-2013, 11:34 AM
I agree with Ish and Gor, keep as is.

Aggememnon
05-21-2013, 12:12 PM
Nothing else to buy, so a refund would be pointless.
Improve the benefit somehow or just leave it be imo.

Mris
05-21-2013, 02:13 PM
It might actually be worth trying to get it made useful. Wouldn't Rogues jump on that along with us? The more people it benefits, the more likely it'll happen.

I wonder if it's possible, without new code, to have the AA add a damage bonus only to triple attacks and higher? (As in, first and second attack per swing wouldn't get anything from it.) Doubt it, but we can ask.

On the other hand, we still have the Strikethrough/Tactical Mastery stuff, which has gotten neither refunded nor improved at this point, so don't hold out for anything.

SoroxDrinal
05-21-2013, 02:18 PM
I'd like to see the AA line actually work. Otherwise, refund. For those of us not max AA, I'd like to see some benefit to the 180ish AAs... You guys who are max AAs can simply rebuy...

Kenshiiro
05-21-2013, 02:32 PM
I also agree with Ish. Im max AA and 30dps is better than nothing.

Id like to see them fix it and make it worthwhile but that seems unlikely.

Sorick
05-21-2013, 02:38 PM
I'd like to see the AA line actually work. Otherwise, refund. For those of us not max AA, I'd like to see some benefit to the 180ish AAs... You guys who are max AAs can simply rebuy...

Rebuy what? If max AA there is nothing to buy.

It is easiest to just not buy it in the first place if you know that it does next to nothing. Refunding this is a silly thing to do as you are throwing away DPS.

It may be a joke of a DPS bump, but it is still higher DPS that everyone will miss out on eventually.

Refunding it is worthless. Either do something to fix/upgrade it or just leave it alone. Nerfing yourselves by having them refund this is beyond a strange thing to want.

Don't want it? Don't buy it. There you saved yourselves the AA's spent.

Archus
05-21-2013, 02:50 PM
Keep as is. Hope for improvement or more value one day. I have purchased many AA that never did anything or no longer do anything. It really is no longer that difficult to achieve max AA.

Nedrom
05-21-2013, 03:58 PM
Sent this feedback so far to Elidroth. Let him know we'd like to leave it as is, he was actually the one to suggest the refund, not me.

I agree with the rest of you, leaving it as-is makes more sense for future improvements/changes without nerfing ourselves inadvertently.

Gorkeyah
05-21-2013, 03:59 PM
I think he is saying leave the AA line there, but refund the points put into it. People who still want it can then turn around and spend those points again to get it. But I doubt they'd do that.

sojuu
05-21-2013, 04:43 PM
Id rather see the AA line fixed than getting a refund for the AAs.

LongFu
05-21-2013, 08:37 PM
A fix would be great. As someone who isn't close to max AA I was hopeful I'd see something useful for the inordinate amount of AA it cost to get all the ranks. In my position (4KAA) the 181 AA could be spent on more ranks of activated skills / reducing timers.

In an ideal world I could see 30 dps increase per rank up to a point of diminishing returns like rank 12-15 perhaps. I'm certain that would be labor intensive but I can dream. I bought it blindly without an expectation on its performance.

Derakahn
05-23-2013, 08:39 AM
Drastically reduce the overall cost of the AA, refund the difference.

Yyevil
05-23-2013, 06:50 PM
Nothing else to buy, so a refund would be pointless.
Improve the benefit somehow or just leave it be imo.
^^^^^
This

Celephane
05-24-2013, 06:57 AM
^^^^^
This

I think a lot of us are in this boat

SoroxDrinal
05-25-2013, 07:33 PM
If you are max AAs, the refund gives you 180ish AAs to rebuy the same broken AA line.
If you are not max AAs and bought this AA line, you can respend on something not broken.
If you are not max AAs and have not bought this AA line, you can avoid it.

How does a refund hurt anyone? A refund is an admission it is not working as intended and would hopefully initiate an investigation.

We could be at the triple soft cap by buying the 1st level of BoP?!

Kaliaila
05-25-2013, 10:29 PM
Some more info like what Ughbash mentioned would be nice before making a definite decision. But barring that then either:

See if perhaps there is a way that the AA could also increase the triple attack soft cap by so much such that at least all of the ranks would be useful.

Or

Refund the currently spent AAs but keep the AA line as it is; letting others rebuy it if they want to.

Sorick
05-26-2013, 01:06 AM
How does a refund hurt anyone?



Because typically a refund means lowering the AA Ranks down and then being granted those unused AA's back.

So instead of re-buying the ranks they would simply not exist anymore.

While the amount of AA's needed to max it is high considering the benefit of the AA line it really is a minor amount of total AA.

So it seems silly to me to even mess with it considering the possibility of them removing Ranks to grant this refund.

Kelefane
05-26-2013, 05:37 AM
I wouldnt trust the devs refunding these AAs at all. Some sort of hidden inadvertent nerf could take place and if a nerf happens, who knows when in the hell the devs would get around to fixing it. I say leave it alone. Its been like this for years, so may as well just say fuck it and leave it.

This smells like a bad situation waiting to get worse IMO.

Yyevil
05-27-2013, 12:32 PM
I wouldnt trust the devs refunding these AAs at all. Some sort of hidden inadvertent nerf could take place and if a nerf happens, who knows when in the hell the devs would get around to fixing it. I say leave it alone. Its been like this for years, so may as well just say fuck it and leave it.

This smells like a bad situation waiting to get worse IMO.

Some would call Kelefane a cynic.....I call him a realist.

Zzlaarr
05-27-2013, 04:34 PM
Refund would be pointless to me since im maxxed (not hard for monks anyways...). I'd rather see something useful added or the softcap increased.
Or... how about turning it into an accuracy/crit rate increase? ;) /duck

sensei savager
05-28-2013, 02:27 PM
I wouldnt trust the devs refunding these AAs at all. Some sort of hidden inadvertent nerf could take place and if a nerf happens, who knows when in the hell the devs would get around to fixing it. I say leave it alone. Its been like this for years, so may as well just say fuck it and leave it.

This smells like a bad situation waiting to get worse IMO.

My fears too

sojuu
05-29-2013, 05:10 PM
So what was the response given to eldiroth? And did he respond yet?

Nedrom
05-29-2013, 09:50 PM
No response. The last thing I sent to him was that feedback from the community would rather leave it as is.

Nedrom
06-10-2013, 01:40 PM
Got a new reply, Elidroth is going to look into reducing rank cost, however, he won't be refunding AA to anyone who already purchased it.

sojuu
06-11-2013, 12:33 PM
be nice to return the AAs then lower the cost heh

Ughbash
06-11-2013, 01:34 PM
If it is not going to do anything, why bother lowering the cost?

Just leave it alone.

Yyevil
06-11-2013, 02:01 PM
Need to leave it alone or improve it. Nothing else IMO

Kaliaila
06-13-2013, 03:10 AM
To be perfectly honest, I highly doubt that they will ever refund AAs again ever; even if they dramatically change an AA, or if they make all ranks of something cost 1 AA each. you're just going to lose those AAs effectively. Pretty much this kind of BS is just how they are testing the waters to see what the backlash will be when they go all in lame and start giving away AA lines all together.