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tanecho
03-31-2013, 10:51 PM
Can we get a consolidated list of class issues we see present in beta? These are the ones most immediately apparent to me.

1.) Crit rates:
Our critical hit rate is still low and nothing was done to address this during beta. This is a large reason for our poor scalability on burst, because we gain less benefit from critical damage boosting effects. This is especially pronounced on tiger claw, which is currently not affected by cleave.

2.) Special damage scaling:
Because of the large amount of the damage on our specials that is derived from flat damage AA modifiers, our disciplines that relate to specials are less and less effective each expansion. Ironfist has gone from a 280% damage mod to more like 100% for our base flying kick ability, and its even less for our newly unlinked tiger claw.

3.) Discipline timers:
Our primary damage discipline (terrorpalm) is still on a 22 minute timer, leaving it unavailable for some fights during multi-fight raid zones (like NTOV). We got a timer reduction on ironfist, to 21 minutes from 30. 15 minutes would be more reasonable for both, lining up that timer with the timer for heel of zagali.

4.) New discipline issues
As of this writing, only one of our new disciplines will likely see any use (Swift Reflexes). Zalikor's fang has timer issues, Earthforce is impenetrable without the good part, and Protection consumes our discipline window whereas the forestall death that it is supposed to be an alternative to does not.

5.) Group/Raid desirability
Nothing new was added to the class to make us desirable in groups or raids. We have made strides in DPS, but we still provide no benefit to anyone other than ourselves from a group/raid synergy standpoint.

What else do we have?

Nedrom
04-01-2013, 12:33 AM
Why not post this in the beta forums?

tanecho
04-01-2013, 08:03 AM
I want to know if other monks feel the same way or if they think what we got is enough. Also, to minimize noise on beta forums, its probably best to come with 1 big list than tons of small posts.

Gorkeyah
04-01-2013, 10:37 AM
I'm not a fan of the tiger claw tangent we've gone on. I’d rather the entire thing be abandoned. We don't seem to be getting any feedback to our feedback, so we're probably stuck with what they've done so far. A lot of it's good, so it doesn't bother me that much that some of it is a waste.

I do agree that terrorpalm and ironfist should get their timers reduced some more -especially terrorpalm.

Zzlaarr
04-01-2013, 12:40 PM
My personal stance on Beta for Monks so far...

I think we have received a considerable bump in our personal DPS, how it will work out on raids is yet to be seen. If it's enough to be competitive again compared to rogues and zerkers ... we will see.

In a grouping environment I believe Monks are competitive again.
I'd say monks received an upgrade of around 50% or even more personal DPS. I can't tell though how much of a bump other classes will receive at the end of beta.

Sustained DPS
I've been moloing the Reborn progression yesterday so most of the time I only had my clicky buffs and 96% haste + 12% overhaste. I have not been really trying hard to DPS or using discs a lot, only for the occasional mob I wanted to beat down quickly. So I guess the below combined could be a picture of our new sustained (keeping in mind I am fully T2 ROF raid geared with TS armor/cleave stacking).

Length of parse: 8,355 secs
Combined parse of about 120 mobs

Combined: An overseer in 8355s, 184431k @22074 --- Zzlaarr + pets 184341k @22064

Zzlaarr -vs- Combined: An overseer (w/o swarm pets)
-- DMG: 183.399.039
-- DPS: 21.951
-- Scaled: 21.951
-- Punch: 96.616.775
-- Kick: 76.711.721
-- Strike: 8.443.731
-- DirDmg: 1.618.779
-- Hit: 8.033
-- Non-crit rate: 80,1%
-- crit rate: 19,9%
-- Attempts: 71.162
-- Hits: 58.213
-- Missed: 12.949
-- Accuracy: 81,8%
-- Avg Hit: 3.150
-- Max hit: 183.645

Combined: An overseer on 31.03.2013

Zzlaarr - 1490
--- Ancestral Memories III - 2
--- Banestrike - 185
--- Covered by Vie - 3
--- Demon Crusher - 20
--- Distant Strike - 65
--- Eagle's Strike III - 47
--- Fists of Fury - 314
--- Five Point Palm - 9
--- Form of Endurance XVI - 2
--- Frightful Force - 206
--- Illusionary Spikes XI - 2
--- Imitate Death - 3
--- Impenetrable Disc - 13
--- Infusion of Thunder - 4
--- Infusion of Thunder Effect - 5
--- Innerflame Disc - 2
--- Might of Stone IX - 2
--- Moving Mountains - 15
--- Myrmidon's Skill XI - 2
--- Peace of the Disciple - 2
--- Peace of the Disciple Strike - 25
--- Prismatic Ward XII - 2
--- Second Spire of the Sensei - 4
--- Shadewalker's Mending III - 2
--- Silent Disturbance - 1
--- Six Spirits Finishing Kick - 1
--- Six Spirits Fist Technique - 1
--- Soothing Breath IX - 3
--- Thunderfoot - 438
--- Twitching Speed - 7
--- Zan Fi's Whistle - 18

Produced by GamParse v1.0.3

New SoF Discs
Well to put it blunt, they are close to useless.
Swift reflexes might be nice but very situational and then only on raids really.

Old discs
Our timers are still whack and behind other classes imo, this should be one of our main concerns in remaining beta to get this fixed. Also to bring the disc timers in line with our AAs we usually need to combine them with.
But tbh I still need to put some work into this to get a complete picture of the current situation.

Heel revival
On the bright side one of our weakest discs lines (Heel) received an enormous upgrade, a real revival, not directly by any changes to the disc itself but due to all the other changes, mainly Thunderfoot.
As far as I see it Heel of Zagali will now be our #1 burn disc, followed by Terrorpalm and SF with quite a margin.

Misc.
EQ is old, everything is pretty much "been there, done that" so not really sure what else to expect in form of new stuff or even anything revolutionary. I'm not keen on more "fluff".
It's very limited nowadays what Devs can come up with, what they could give us we would consider worthwhile or whithout watering down the classes even more. The whole "Vision" is very blurry as is already.

Gorkeyah
04-01-2013, 01:05 PM
Heel revival[/U]
On the bright side one of our weakest discs lines (Heel) received an enormous upgrade, a real revival, not directly by any changes to the disc itself but due to all the other changes, mainly Thunderfoot.
As far as I see it Heel of Zagali will now be our #1 burn disc, followed by Terrorpalm and SF with quite a margin.



Now that would be funny. heh Btw, how long was the typical fight on the combined?

Nedrom
04-01-2013, 02:35 PM
I'm not a fan of the tiger claw tangent we've gone on. I’d rather the entire thing be abandoned. We don't seem to be getting any feedback to our feedback, so we're probably stuck with what they've done so far. A lot of it's good, so it doesn't bother me that much that some of it is a waste.

I do agree that terrorpalm and ironfist should get their timers reduced some more -especially terrorpalm.

So you're the only one that agrees with me on this then. I've been against it since it was first introduced, it's a waste of time imo. It's a level 10 ability that should stay that way.

Gorkeyah
04-01-2013, 03:22 PM
So you're the only one that agrees with me on this then. I've been against it since it was first introduced, it's a waste of time imo. It's a level 10 ability that should stay that way.

yeah, and I think their goals were more about our other tiger claw based abilities and not tiger claw itself. However, since they've unlinked tiger claw, now there's all these requests to boost the old attack itself and nobody cares about the other stuff because we know we're still not going to use that. heh

tanecho
04-01-2013, 03:35 PM
The way I see if they've given us another button to hit and I want to make sure that it is worthwhile to do so and that its scales appropriately.

Gorkeyah
04-01-2013, 03:59 PM
The way I see if they've given us another button to hit and I want to make sure that it is worthwhile to do so and that its scales appropriately.

True, but the whole thing seems to have diverged from their original intentions, so my guess is they wont do anything.

Zzlaarr
04-02-2013, 11:48 AM
Hmm, just noticed that Zan Fi has +860 dmg FK now on beta

tanecho
04-02-2013, 11:56 AM
$

Gorkeyah
04-02-2013, 12:45 PM
Hmm, just noticed that Zan Fi has +860 dmg FK now on beta

They were supposed to add FK to it, but I didn't know how much. That's not bad.

Nedrom
04-02-2013, 01:19 PM
Hmm, just noticed that Zan Fi has +860 dmg FK now on beta

neat!

Yyevil
04-02-2013, 01:40 PM
Hmm, just noticed that Zan Fi has +860 dmg FK now on beta

wow very nice! $$$

Nedrom
04-02-2013, 01:55 PM
+dmg is nice, but I learned something this beta.

all our +dmg for kicks and punches for anything is not modded by things like crystalpalm/iron fist etc... so they are very flat increases.

sojuu
04-02-2013, 02:02 PM
I agree with everythingin the first post for complaints, I see those as our biggest issues.

But the tigerclaw being unlinked I love this. I just wish they would go a little farther with it and let cleave work on it. That and also I liked how someone on beta suggested that we start getting +kick or +strike. These would such as +kick on all types of kicks and +strike would work on all things such as tigerclaw.

Another thing I would kind of like to see is a flying kick modifier on our feet. Kind of how rogues have 12% to backstab on thier weapons. Why shouldn't we get 12% to flying kick on our feet?

Maereax
04-02-2013, 02:55 PM
Why shouldn't we get 12% to flying kick on our feet?
Dude please stop being greedy and trying to move dev time away from rogues. They still haven't gotten their drachnid illusion that shadowsteps them behind the mob, does a level-unlimited assassinate and allows them to pickpocket a mobs entire loot table. You're making us look bad by trying to improve the class when rogues clearly have more pressing needs.

Aaaaand back to the real world, we should probably have this

Ughbash
04-02-2013, 03:07 PM
Dude please stop being greedy and trying to move dev time away from rogues. They still haven't gotten their drachnid illusion that shadowsteps them behind the mob, does a level-unlimited assassinate and allows them to pickpocket a mobs entire loot table. You're making us look bad by trying to improve the class when rogues clearly have more pressing needs.

Aaaaand back to the real world, we should probably have this

You forgot to mention the shadow man illusion for the PVP servers.

sensei savager
04-02-2013, 03:20 PM
Would love to see a % mod to flying kick on our feet and a % mod to hand to hand on our gloves. I know they can do the gloves thing because there's been an item with + h2h on it (thinking back in luclin days iirc).

I think the dps increases they have given us are huge in comparison to how far we were behind the other pure melee dps classes, but will have to wait until a raid scenario to see how well we actually faired compared to the increases to other classes (I heard rogues got an increase to crit modifier on their backstabs, not sure how much of an increase that will be but they sure seemed happy to get it).

We really do need to have our disc timers lowered (speedfocus and palm lines especially) so that they match up with other adps classes abilities like rogues do. (are their spires 10 mins like ours? wouldn't it be nice to have spire up everytime our disc refreshed? not to mention shaman spire and the like)

Our disc additions are VERY situational and I doubt that I'll use any of them other than swift reflexes

Gorkeyah
04-02-2013, 03:58 PM
Shorter timers all around would be nice, but really it's only palm and iron that can be trouble on some raids. Faster speedfocus would mean more use in grouping or on trash, but probably not effect boss fights.

Ishtass
04-02-2013, 04:00 PM
I'm still disheartened. I see a lot of these flat increases Ned mentions that will not hold up very well over time, and knowing that other classes will see increases in dps too, I don't think it will be enough to bridge the gap.

Here's to hoping it plays out better than it seems.

Mris
04-02-2013, 04:57 PM
I heard rogues got an increase to crit modifier on their backstabs

From AA chat:

<Sarayu> Elidroth, increase chat to melee critical?
<Elidroth> Sarayu - I'm hesitant to give our more crit chance..

Yay for rogues getting preference! Oh, and they also got a boost to their chance to proc HH effect. (Not new ranks, but changes to the existing AA, Etherium Blades.)

tanecho
04-02-2013, 06:09 PM
In fairness that's critical damage not critical chance

Kelefane
04-02-2013, 06:42 PM
All things considering, I think that Monks did pretty well in this Beta. You cant ask for the world in a single Beta and expect to get it. With all of these changes and new things that Monks are getting, its a far cry from where you were before this Beta.

You will certainly see a DPS increase when this all goes live.

And the Heel disc will likely become the Monks new go-to burn for obvious reasons.

Vothsisx
04-02-2013, 07:39 PM
Would love to see a % mod to flying kick on our feet and a % mod to hand to hand on our gloves. I know they can do the gloves thing because there's been an item with + h2h on it (thinking back in luclin days iirc).


Dark Hand Wraps (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=28949)

We made out pretty well in the AA department. Everyone (just about) got nothing useful in the spell / disc department. Some even got nerfed.

I'm doing about 20-22k with auto attack and an all in one button wearing T2 equipment from earlier raid testing.

Zzlaarr
04-02-2013, 11:03 PM
Tried to recap and visualise our current (beta) disc situation on raids with a typical ADPS setup. What ya think? That's about right? We could use that for anything? Still one or two gaps i need to fill...

http://www.fantasy-magic.de/Everquest/Screenshots/Snap1.jpg

Yyevil
04-03-2013, 01:04 AM
That spreadsheet....is SWEET.

Very nice Zzlaarr.

Can I re-post that to my guild forums for our monks?

Zzlaarr
04-03-2013, 05:37 AM
No problem if you post a link to here, just remember that I already considered Beta info like additional timer reductions, extensions, beta spell data etc.
There will most likely be changes till it hits live.

Also it's not complete, it's from a monk perspective, leaving out effects "I don't care for" in this context.

Aggememnon
04-03-2013, 06:11 AM
very nice spreadsheet! I've got a similar one but its much more rough and ready hehe

Could add grp guardian (32% dmg), circle of power (120% crit chance), BL 3rd spire (7% hit, 30% min dmg). I think thats about it...I've also got proc effects listed, but not as useful:

lynx: slot 5: Add Proc: Lynx Maw rate mod 400 (729 dd) (slot5)
storm blade: slot 1: Add Proc: Storm Blade Strike rate mod 400 (100dd) spiders bite: slot 11: Add Proc: Spider's Bite Poison Strike VIII (2036 dd) (slot 10:Screech)
call of fire: slot 1: Add Proc: Call of Fire Strike (65 dd)
springwork: slot 2: Add Proc: Contact Poison I (141 dd)
inf thunder: slot 1: Add Proc: Infusion of Thunder Effect rate mod 20 (925 to 1500 dd)

Gorkeyah
04-03-2013, 09:28 AM
And the Heel disc will likely become the Monks new go-to burn for obvious reasons.

This should be interesting. What do we use with Heel, and what do we save? When do we use it?

Currently I'll burn terrorpalm with the beast HH if I'm getting it, plus I'll do tunic click and eagle with it and sometimes destructive force -might crane kick. And I do zanfi, 2nd spire, infusion with speed. If it's a long fight, I'll use eye while adps from shaman/bard is recyling before using speed.

However, if heel is best, and you want a peak burn, I suppose you'd use infusion, zanfi, and maybe 2nd spire with it, with the best adps (e.g. beast), but that will really lower the effectiveness of the other discs. We could use 7th with speed I suppose if you've burned infusion with heel, or vice versa.

Aggememnon
04-03-2013, 09:31 AM
One thing I would like to add for the disc timers - if Heel is indeed going to be the new burn disc, then we need a timer reduction there too!
I think 15 mins should be the longest reuse for any melee disc, and preferably should be reserved for our weakest disc - which I guess is ironfist now.
I'm sure Elidroth can be persuaded!

The other thing to bear in mind is that all these discs were conceived prior to the recent and ongoing discussions on how sadly monks are doing with respect to other melee dps classes. I'd hope that even after beta is over that those discussions would continue.

I'm actually fairly happy with the AAs, if we can get some disc reuse AAs added. For burst though, the disc we have so far look very *meh*. Its way too 'tank'-centric imo.

Aggememnon
04-03-2013, 09:35 AM
Currently I'll burn terrorpalm with the beast HH if I'm getting it, plus I'll do tunic click and eagle with it and sometimes destructive force -might crane kick. ...

However, if heel is best, and you want a peak burn, I suppose you'd use infusion, zanfi, and maybe 2nd spire with it, with the best adps (e.g. beast), but that will really lower the effectiveness of the other discs. We could use 7th with speed I suppose if you've burned infusion with heel, or vice versa.

Yeah this is going to be a difficult choice. I would guess that the most dps overall would be TP with beast hh if you have it, followed by heel and infusion. Or if its short enough, just infusion and heel. I guess you could also swap down to a 2hb for the duration hehe

Rasputyn
04-03-2013, 09:49 AM
Now's also the time to ask for another tick of Extended Heel AA.

sojuu
04-03-2013, 11:26 AM
I didn't want to post this till I got oppinion of others but to fix our disc timer issue, think we should ask for a forceful reguvencation like casters get for spells? I wanted to wait till aristo got back from vacation to hear what he says on lower disc reuse time and to get yalls opinion b4 asking.

Gorkeyah
04-03-2013, 01:12 PM
Now's also the time to ask for another tick of Extended Heel AA.

Yeah, heel is a short one compared to the others.

Vothsisx
04-03-2013, 03:19 PM
This should be interesting. What do we use with Heel, and what do we save? When do we use it?

Currently I'll burn terrorpalm with the beast HH if I'm getting it, plus I'll do tunic click and eagle with it and sometimes destructive force -might crane kick. And I do zanfi, 2nd spire, infusion with speed. If it's a long fight, I'll use eye while adps from shaman/bard is recyling before using speed.

However, if heel is best, and you want a peak burn, I suppose you'd use infusion, zanfi, and maybe 2nd spire with it, with the best adps (e.g. beast), but that will really lower the effectiveness of the other discs. We could use 7th with speed I suppose if you've burned infusion with heel, or vice versa.

EDITED to change the order of importance:

IMHO we have a few sets of burns. . .

1) Zan Fi + Heel
2) Terror Palm + Eagle + BP + Drunken + DF (depending on beast)
3) Speed + DF + IoT + Zan Fi + Spire (depending on beast
4) Zan Fi (still running) + Ironfist + Crane
5) Zan Fi (still running) + Eye


I'm sure there are better combinations but this is just what I have mentally prepared right now. Also have a hotkey to fire FK / Tiger / Synergy / Stun Kick / Cloud / Shuriken. Qulas made a great guide to setting it up on the Beta boards. If you nag him I'm sure he'd repost it here.

Gorkeyah
04-03-2013, 03:59 PM
IMHO we have a few sets of burns. . .

1) Terror Palm + Eagle + BP + Drunken + DF (depending on beast)
2) Speed + DF + IoT + Zan Fi + Spire
3) Zan Fi (still running) + Heel
4) Zan Fi (still running) + Ironfist + Crane
5) Zan Fi (still running) + Eye

I'm sure there are better combinations but this is just what I have mentally prepared right now. Also have a hotkey to fire FK / Tiger / Synergy / Stun Kick / Cloud / Shuriken. Qulas made a great guide to setting it up on the Beta boards. If you nag him I'm sure he'd repost it here.

fwiw, I believe eagle lasts long enough for two discs.

Vothsisx
04-03-2013, 04:05 PM
fwiw, I believe eagle lasts long enough for two discs.

You're right, bad thinking on my part. My guild is very low DPS so I just about always wait for each disc on a new shaman epic click. Rarely do I do them back to back.

IoT with Heel is negligible from what I've done with it. Keep it for Speed Focus.

Also updated my previous post with the disc rankings I got.

Gorkeyah
04-03-2013, 04:38 PM
IoT with Heel is negligible from what I've done with it. Keep it for Speed Focus.

My guess is that we'll end up saving IoT for speed when we know we're going to use speed on the event, but if we're going all in on a short fight, it's probably worth using with heel to mod our h2h attacks (and the uber tiger? heh).

The big burn (short) is maybe going to be iron with drunk monkey, crane, tunic click proc, then click off iron and run heel, IoT, 2nd spire, zanfi, eagle, with all the adps going -and hit five point after a fresh flop.

tanecho
04-03-2013, 06:48 PM
Might as well start tiger's balance when you hit ironfist, it's modded most by that. Also, tiger's balance + wasp strike > eagle's balance.

Zzlaarr
04-03-2013, 06:56 PM
very nice spreadsheet! I've got a similar one but its much more rough and ready hehe

Could add grp guardian (32% dmg), circle of power (120% crit chance), BL 3rd spire (7% hit, 30% min dmg).

Updated the spreadsheet. (GGotF is also 20% overhaste but I did not include that info atm)
Btw ... some of the AAs/Discs get extented by focus effects of the player so keep that in mind when looking at the ext. duration in the chart.

Yyevil
04-03-2013, 07:11 PM
Might as well start tiger's balance when you hit ironfist, it's modded most by that. Also, tiger's balance + wasp strike > eagle's balance.

Wasp Strike?

Zzlaarr
04-03-2013, 07:16 PM
Wasp Strike?
Included Two-Finger Wasp Touch in the overview.
Maybe we should push a bit to get Eagle's Balance changed to TC. But I think this won't break us ... (Yeah I know it's called Eagle for a reason but ... :tongue: )

Or even better yet ... get Wasp changed to mod also ES and not only TC?

Kaliaila
04-04-2013, 07:16 AM
I'd lean towards trying to get Wasp changed to effect both ES & TC (or even all of our non-FK specials). That way when the Dev's make another itteration of the Balance disc it will be just as worthwhile.

Nedrom
04-04-2013, 11:38 AM
SOE doesn't read this thread, so please make sure to be applying for beta and posting your feedback there on the SOE forums.

I have provided links in General on how to apply.

Gorkeyah
04-04-2013, 10:45 PM
I'd lean towards trying to get Wasp changed to effect both ES & TC (or even all of our non-FK specials). That way when the Dev's make another itteration of the Balance disc it will be just as worthwhile.

You would run wasp over synergy for eagle/TC?

Imuu
04-05-2013, 04:59 AM
they dont stack?

tanecho
04-05-2013, 07:38 AM
I'm pretty sure they do. If they don't, it's not worth using wasp ever.

Gorkeyah
04-05-2013, 10:37 AM
Unless I'm confusing things (possible! heh), I thought that was the problem with wasp. It was an alternative to synergy that does to tiger what synergy does to flying kick and you couldn't use them at the same time.

<edit> re-reading things, I guess we can land the weak-to-tiger wasp thing independent of other discs, it's just that for the most part we wouldn't use other tiger based abilities with it instead of their FK based alternatives. The exception being the now unlinked tiger claw special attack, and possibly using tiger's balance over eagles balance. Note that I haven't tested any of this myself.

Imuu
04-05-2013, 11:05 AM
this is the whole point of the topic on getting eagles added to wasp etc, so we dont have to revert back to tigers and make eagles not used etc.

Zzlaarr
04-05-2013, 04:20 PM
Unless I'm confusing things (possible! heh), I thought that was the problem with wasp. It was an alternative to synergy that does to tiger what synergy does to flying kick and you couldn't use them at the same time.

<edit> re-reading things, I guess we can land the weak-to-tiger wasp thing independent of other discs, it's just that for the most part we wouldn't use other tiger based abilities with it instead of their FK based alternatives. The exception being the now unlinked tiger claw special attack, and possibly using tiger's balance over eagles balance. Note that I haven't tested any of this myself.
It's only about Tiger- vs. Eagle's Balance. FK or Synergy has nothing to do with this.

Gorkeyah
04-05-2013, 04:51 PM
Since one monk can pretty much keep synergy on the mob, and wasp will be there, couldn't all the other monks use step instead? :) (step is tiger I think, right?)

Zzlaarr
04-06-2013, 12:06 AM
[35076/8504] Eight-Step Pattern Rk. III
Classes: MNK/99
Skill: Tiger Claw
Endurance: 420
Target: Single
Range: 50
Resist: Unresistable
Casting: 0s, Recast: 30s, Timer: 8
Hate: 1
1: Tiger Claw Attack for 906 with 10000% Accuracy Mod
2: Tiger Claw Attack for 906 with 10000% Accuracy Mod
3: Tiger Claw Attack for 906 with 10000% Accuracy Mod
Text: You are struck by a barrage of fists in eight steps.
With eight simple steps, you attack your opponent with three successive eagle claw strikes.

tanecho
04-06-2013, 12:44 AM
Shadewalker's Synergy Rk. III

Slot Description
1: Flying Kick Attack for 763 with 10000% Accuracy Mod
2: Flying Kick Attack for 763 with 10000% Accuracy Mod
3: Flying Kick Attack for 763 with 10000% Accuracy Mod
4: Add effect: Shadewalker's Synergy Effect

Synergy also has a shorter recast (21 seconds with AA vs 28.5 seconds with type 3 aug) with the additional bonus of our AA effects, and the debuff from synergy is more powerful than the debuff from wasp strike (122% vs 100%).

I think I'll stick with Synergy... it's closer now though.

Gorkeyah
04-06-2013, 09:55 AM
Yeah the recycle time advantage is big.

Qulas
04-06-2013, 01:50 PM
Synergy is a Flying Kick attack, which gets effected by Cleave, where as Tiger Claws, do not. Synergy will pretty much always win out unless the damage on the Step patterns goes up astronomically.

Kaliaila
04-07-2013, 11:31 PM
Gorkeyah, I think you were also getting Wasp confused with the one disc that is "Dragon Fang x2" as it does share a timer with Synergy.

Gorkeyah
04-08-2013, 01:39 AM
Gorkeyah, I think you were also getting Wasp confused with the one disc that is "Dragon Fang x2" as it does share a timer with Synergy.

No, I knew about that one separately.

Zzlaarr
04-09-2013, 05:45 PM
Cleave has been changed on beta. One ability was added (type77), probably 2HP?

To be able to add this they removed the +dmg bonus from all Cleave ## -XX.

Makes me a sad panda if this is not only temporary...

Archus
04-09-2013, 05:47 PM
Cleave has been changed on beta. One ability was added (type77), probably 2HP?

To be able to add this they removed the +dmg bonus from all Cleave ## -XX.

Makes me a sad panda if this is not only temporary...

Hmmm... You're saying this is the end of cultural being a viable path for raiding monks? (at least from an increased dps perspective)

Zzlaarr
04-09-2013, 05:59 PM
Hmmm... You're saying this is the end of cultural being a viable path for raiding monks? (at least from an increased dps perspective)
If it stays like this there is no more reason to keep TS armor for me at least.

Yyevil
04-09-2013, 06:41 PM
If it stays like this there is no more reason to keep TS armor for me at least.

Holy Friggin crap. They said they weren't going to change it. GD it. That's all I've bene spending my GD DKP on the last month. =/

sensei savager
04-09-2013, 06:49 PM
I've heard they were changing it for over a month now...

Zzlaarr
04-09-2013, 07:28 PM
Guess he is referring to a statement by chandrok in February which actually also made me go that route instead of the raid class armor.

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/index.php?threads/cleave-question.3575/#post-45725

Changes to cleave only came up in beta due to the piercing skill split and I guess THIS "solution" is the least preferable of any possible solutions that were suggested.

Well, it's still beta so nothing in stone yet ...

tanecho
04-09-2013, 08:13 PM
They either need to start growing the percentages, or undo this change and find a more elegant solution, because having one of only two focus effects we have stagnated to SoD levels is pretty lame.

sardonis
04-10-2013, 11:13 AM
A better solution to just removing it would have been to make the cleave augs part of a lore group.

Not a good solution, since it all but eliminates cleave stacking (one aug plus arms for stacking), but it doesn't completly remove the damage bonus either.

Fujitsu
04-10-2013, 12:50 PM
So I cant seem to get the beta forums to allow me to post. It keeps giving me an error saying I must be loged in even though I am so I was just gonna post here and see if one of you can post it there for me if it hasn't already been posted.

Rogues got Assassin's wrath which is a backstab specific crit dmg mod. I think monk (and berserkers) should get something similar as well.

Monk's Wrath (for lack of an original name); Increase the critical hit dmg (and possibly rate) with all monk special attacks.

Zzlaarr
04-10-2013, 12:55 PM
Cleave has been fixed again, instead of the +dmg mod they removed Kick.

Ughbash
04-10-2013, 02:53 PM
So I cant seem to get the beta forums to allow me to post. It keeps giving me an error saying I must be loged in even though I am so I was just gonna post here and see if one of you can post it there for me if it hasn't already been posted.

Rogues got Assassin's wrath which is a backstab specific crit dmg mod. I think monk (and berserkers) should get something similar as well.

Monk's Wrath (for lack of an original name); Increase the critical hit dmg (and possibly rate) with all monk special attacks.

That would not have nearly as much of an effect on monks. Bacsktab is a much larger portion of a rogues DPS then our specials our of ours.

Sort of how doubling the autofire range dps would help rangers more than us even though we were both getting the same percent increase.

Nedrom
04-10-2013, 03:03 PM
So I cant seem to get the beta forums to allow me to post. It keeps giving me an error saying I must be loged in even though I am so I was just gonna post here and see if one of you can post it there for me if it hasn't already been posted.

Rogues got Assassin's wrath which is a backstab specific crit dmg mod. I think monk (and berserkers) should get something similar as well.

Monk's Wrath (for lack of an original name); Increase the critical hit dmg (and possibly rate) with all monk special attacks.

try a different web browser or disable your web antivirus?

sensei savager
04-10-2013, 03:22 PM
That would not have nearly as much of an effect on monks. Bacsktab is a much larger portion of a rogues DPS then our specials our of ours.

Sort of how doubling the autofire range dps would help rangers more than us even though we were both getting the same percent increase.

Just wait until SoF releases, then you might be singing a different tune

Yyevil
04-10-2013, 06:56 PM
Bacsktab is a much larger portion of a rogues DPS then our specials our of ours.

Qulas linked SOLO, non-raid parses with the new abilities where specials were 40-45% pf his total DPS.

So yeah, change is coming.

Fujitsu
04-10-2013, 07:27 PM
Turns out it was my firewall was blocking the beta forms for some reason.

Aggememnon
04-11-2013, 05:52 AM
did anyone on beta post about type 3 augments for tigerclaw since kick is now dead?

Imuu
04-11-2013, 09:11 AM
did anyone on beta post about type 3 augments for tigerclaw since kick is now dead?

I'm sure i seen a post asking it yeh, but as usual there was little to no feedback on the beta forums about beta stuff

Gorkeyah
04-11-2013, 04:38 PM
did anyone on beta post about type 3 augments for tigerclaw since kick is now dead?

I believe Qulas did.

Obiziana
04-11-2013, 04:49 PM
Qulas linked SOLO, non-raid parses with the new abilities where specials were 40-45% pf his total DPS.

So yeah, change is coming.

Can you point me in the direction of this post? I'd love to see what those parses look like.

Yyevil
04-11-2013, 07:50 PM
Can you point me in the direction of this post? I'd love to see what those parses look like.

There wasn't a post. Just some parse pastes from gameparse in the serverwide channel a few days ago.

Nedrom
04-12-2013, 06:54 AM
Here we go again, out of nowhere, after weeks, soe mods have started deleting my posts from beta forums calling them non constructive. Anyone else?

Ughbash
04-12-2013, 07:23 AM
Here we go again, out of nowhere, after weeks, soe mods have started deleting my posts from beta forums calling them non constructive. Anyone else?

Nope, just the mods. We aren't able to delete yours here :)

Aggememnon
04-12-2013, 07:46 AM
Just saw this on beta:


Monk - Increased the proc rate modifier on Protection of the Shadewalker (35104-06) to 400.
Monk - Moved Zalikor's Fang (35101-03) from timer 8 to timer 16. Added a resist modifier of -24/-32/-40.
Monk - Increased the duration of Earthforce Discipline (35089-91) to 4 ticks and reduced recast time to 3 minutes. It will now trigger Impenetrable Effect I or II (10941-42) when cast, but not III. Increased the damage modifier to 149/156/164.

Ughbash
04-12-2013, 11:14 AM
Just saw this on beta:


Monk - Increased the duration of Earthforce Discipline (35089-91) to 4 ticks and reduced recast time to 3 minutes. It will now trigger Impenetrable Effect I or II (10941-42) when cast, but not III. Increased the damage modifier to 149/156/164.


OK, does our extended inpenetrable AA affect this?

Does our Robe Effect this?

If no to both, why use it over inpenetrable?

tanecho
04-12-2013, 11:19 AM
Because it had both incorporated into the baseline now, if I'm reading those correctly. I'm interested now, but the chance of impen 2 better be high to justify no chance of 3.

Ughbash
04-12-2013, 11:40 AM
Because it had both incorporated into the baseline now, if I'm reading those correctly. I'm interested now, but the chance of impen 2 better be high to justify no chance of 3.

Sure it has both incorporated to the base line, but what advantage does it have (possibly freeing BP up for another focus next expansion).

As you pointed out there is no chance at inpenetrable 3. We also MINORLY should consider end cost is it less, more or the same.

If it gives us no benfit over using inpentrable, assuming we have te AA and the BP, and it has some detrimentals (End cost and lack of Inpen 3), it is a downgrade.

If the BP and AA effect it, then it is an upgrade.

Sokon
04-12-2013, 11:50 AM
Here we go again, out of nowhere, after weeks, soe mods have started deleting my posts from beta forums calling them non constructive. Anyone else?

Well dude, you like always claim something is not working, and then ask someone else to run a parse on it, or ask elidroth to test it.

You can't blame the mod for wtf deleting your posts, can you?

Aggememnon
04-12-2013, 11:50 AM
I asked the exact same question about BP on beta forums, so will let you know of any reply. If the reply is 'no', then we ask for a focus for it on t3 BP. /shrug
But this is 4 ticks vs 2 on the 'base' of impenetrable.

Gorkeyah
04-12-2013, 11:52 AM
Well dude, you like always claim something is not working, and then ask someone else to run a parse on it, or ask elidroth to test it.

You can't blame the mod for wtf deleting your posts, can you?

They better not have deleted Ned's post about the size of the spell effects on the new thunder kick!!! :P

Gorkeyah
04-12-2013, 11:57 AM
Just saw this on beta:


Monk - Increased the proc rate modifier on Protection of the Shadewalker (35104-06) to 400.
Monk - Moved Zalikor's Fang (35101-03) from timer 8 to timer 16. Added a resist modifier of -24/-32/-40.
Monk - Increased the duration of Earthforce Discipline (35089-91) to 4 ticks and reduced recast time to 3 minutes. It will now trigger Impenetrable Effect I or II (10941-42) when cast, but not III. Increased the damage modifier to 149/156/164.


Cool, timer 16 is cloud of fists. I believe this means we can do both.

Nedrom
04-12-2013, 12:24 PM
Well dude, you like always claim something is not working, and then ask someone else to run a parse on it, or ask elidroth to test it.

You can't blame the mod for wtf deleting your posts, can you?

Seriously? Thanks for the support.

Ughbash
04-12-2013, 01:08 PM
Cool, timer 16 is cloud of fists. I believe this means we can do both.

Wouldn't that mean we can NOT do both?

tanecho
04-12-2013, 01:18 PM
Sure it has both incorporated to the base line, but what advantage does it have (possibly freeing BP up for another focus next expansion).

As you pointed out there is no chance at inpenetrable 3. We also MINORLY should consider end cost is it less, more or the same.

If it gives us no benfit over using inpentrable, assuming we have te AA and the BP, and it has some detrimentals (End cost and lack of Inpen 3), it is a downgrade.

If the BP and AA effect it, then it is an upgrade.

The benefit is the damage bonus that it gives. We just have to see if it outweighs the loss of rk3 proc chance. Anyone have a spell parser with the chance?

Maereax
04-12-2013, 01:20 PM
Wouldn't that mean we can NOT do both?

We can do both zalikors fang and synergy now, I think is what he meant

Yyevil
04-12-2013, 01:57 PM
Here we go again, out of nowhere, after weeks, soe mods have started deleting my posts from beta forums calling them non constructive. Anyone else?

Do they delete others posts? Is it just you? What was the content?

Nedrom
04-12-2013, 02:29 PM
Do they delete others posts? Is it just you? What was the content?

Was a post about me asking when we'd get feedback on spells.

Rasputyn
04-12-2013, 02:42 PM
Earthforce change means we might want to ask for a new BP focus when T4 launches.

sensei savager
04-12-2013, 02:43 PM
not sure if these were put on beta yet because as of this morning zalikors is still greying out shadewalkers

Gorkeyah
04-12-2013, 02:46 PM
How much does Zalikor's Fang hit for anyway?

Yyevil
04-12-2013, 08:08 PM
Was a post about me asking when we'd get feedback on spells.

Maybe they felt you were nagging? *shrugs*

Sokon
04-13-2013, 01:30 AM
Seriously? Thanks for the support.

Yes seriously. I mean, I like you ned. but you aren't exactly playing an end game monk right now, and its questionable the last time that you did consistently for years.

And yea, a lot of your posts are not constructive.

Yes you say a lot of valid things, but you have to provide the data man. You can't just rely on your rep, or experience to be taken seriously. With soe its "what have you done for me lately" and they don't give a fuck about your past. Also, chances are its new people reading stuff anyways.

And, you have been wrong about claims you have made several times, which tarnishes any ability you have to make claims without the data.

tanecho
04-13-2013, 10:46 AM
How much does Zalikor's Fang hit for anyway?

Looks like it averages about 20k between the melee strike and the spell. I've seen as high as 50, and I've seen a few complete resists for 0.

Running parses right now comparing it against cloud.

Nedrom
04-13-2013, 10:52 AM
Yes seriously. I mean, I like you ned. but you aren't exactly playing an end game monk right now, and its questionable the last time that you did consistently for years.

And yea, a lot of your posts are not constructive.

Yes you say a lot of valid things, but you have to provide the data man. You can't just rely on your rep, or experience to be taken seriously. With soe its "what have you done for me lately" and they don't give a fuck about your past. Also, chances are its new people reading stuff anyways.

And, you have been wrong about claims you have made several times, which tarnishes any ability you have to make claims without the data.

I don't have time to build my own data/parses anymore, this is why I have requested others to join beta and to help out with that data.

Sure there have been a couple things that I was not correct on, but that's because things have changed over the years that I didn't know about.

How about instead of just outright dismissing what I say to offer suggestive comments on helping me understand the issue at hand.

Sure I realize they probably don't care about the fact that I've been playing the game for 13 years, but I have a pretty good grasp on how our class works.

Nedrom
04-13-2013, 10:55 AM
FYI, I just read a post from Aristo very late last night that the current code is locked in except for bug changes. No design changes before what's in there goes live.

Nedrom
04-13-2013, 10:58 AM
They better not have deleted Ned's post about the size of the spell effects on the new thunder kick!!! :P

its so ugly man

tanecho
04-13-2013, 11:25 AM
Quick 20 minute test, just to ballpark it, but the results are so far apart that I don't think it warrants further review.

Cloud of fists (with bard songs) average 31639 per cast
Cloud of fists (without bard songs) average 17092 per cast
Zalikor's average 22109 per cast (this include 2 complete resists)

Damage per minute:
Zalikor - 22109
Cloud w/bard - 63278
Cloud w/o bard - 34186

40% of Zalikor's damage can be modded by discs, but the most powerful disc we'll have for the purpose is terrorpalm, and even a terrorpalm zalikor isn't going to beat a cloud unless you crit both ends, and we aren't a class that should be playing the crit lottery.

Nedrom
04-13-2013, 11:49 AM
Also in case anyone is wondering...

Thunderfoot proc's off all flying kicks, including any 'synergy' discs and stunning kick aa.

So this rules out us ever, ever using pattern line or eye gouge over the flying kick equivalents as they're on the same timers.

I also did some quick testing and even with two-finger wasp running + ironfist, stunning kick without thunderfoot proc still out damages eye gouge.

Plus eye gouge is on 15 second re-use as opposed to 9 seconds for stunning kick.

Nedrom
04-13-2013, 12:36 PM
Quick 20 minute test, just to ballpark it, but the results are so far apart that I don't think it warrants further review.

Cloud of fists (with bard songs) average 31639 per cast
Cloud of fists (without bard songs) average 17092 per cast
Zalikor's average 22109 per cast (this include 2 complete resists)

Damage per minute:
Zalikor - 22109
Cloud w/bard - 63278
Cloud w/o bard - 34186

40% of Zalikor's damage can be modded by discs, but the most powerful disc we'll have for the purpose is terrorpalm, and even a terrorpalm zalikor isn't going to beat a cloud unless you crit both ends, and we aren't a class that should be playing the crit lottery.

Thanks for the parse, this is what I feared, that it's falling short of being an upgrade.

Ishtass
04-13-2013, 05:13 PM
Now we have to convince dev that zalikor's damage is a bug.

Nedrom
04-13-2013, 09:54 PM
Don't be too disappointed. All classes have bad spells this release not just monks.

Ishtass
04-13-2013, 09:56 PM
Don't be too disappointed. All classes have bad spells this release not just monks.

Agreed, but let's not ease up either. Dev's have done some great things, but there's always progress to be made.

Gorkeyah
04-13-2013, 11:17 PM
Quick 20 minute test, just to ballpark it, but the results are so far apart that I don't think it warrants further review.

Cloud of fists (with bard songs) average 31639 per cast
Cloud of fists (without bard songs) average 17092 per cast
Zalikor's average 22109 per cast (this include 2 complete resists)

Damage per minute:
Zalikor - 22109
Cloud w/bard - 63278
Cloud w/o bard - 34186

40% of Zalikor's damage can be modded by discs, but the most powerful disc we'll have for the purpose is terrorpalm, and even a terrorpalm zalikor isn't going to beat a cloud unless you crit both ends, and we aren't a class that should be playing the crit lottery.


Might change against a raid mob, though. Right? With ramp and what not killing off pets before they do their damage. I should look at some of my raid parses....

Yyevil
04-14-2013, 12:51 AM
Might change against a raid mob, though. Right? With ramp and what not killing off pets before they do their damage. I should look at some of my raid parses....


Damage per minute:
Zalikor - 22109 - 368 DPS
Cloud w/bard - 63278 - 1054 DPS
Cloud w/o bard - 34186 - 570 DPS


Pets die to AE's and Wild Rampage
/tell Yyevil Yyevil`s pet -vs- Combined: Lady Nevederia: -- DMG: 2166851 -- DPS: 396 -- Scaled: 388 -- Hit: 1923999 -- Kick: 242150 -- DirDmg: 702 -- Non-crit rate: 100% -- Attempts: 5974 -- Hits: 4223 -- Missed: 1142 -- Defended: 609 -- Accuracy: 78.7% -- Avg Hit: 513 -- Max hit: 821 -- DMG to PC: 115448

Combined from 11 CTOV dragons

So ~400 DPS over the night

Rasputyn
04-14-2013, 03:54 AM
Don't be too disappointed. All classes have bad spells this release not just monks.

Aristo's always been terrible with spells. Being gone this entire beta didn't make him noticeably worse.

tanecho
04-14-2013, 10:13 AM
Pets die to AE's and Wild Rampage
/tell Yyevil Yyevil`s pet -vs- Combined: Lady Nevederia: -- DMG: 2166851 -- DPS: 396 -- Scaled: 388 -- Hit: 1923999 -- Kick: 242150 -- DirDmg: 702 -- Non-crit rate: 100% -- Attempts: 5974 -- Hits: 4223 -- Missed: 1142 -- Defended: 609 -- Accuracy: 78.7% -- Avg Hit: 513 -- Max hit: 821 -- DMG to PC: 115448

Combined from 11 CTOV dragons

So ~400 DPS over the night

Bard or no bard? It's a huge part of the discussion with cloud, bard nearly doubles the damage. Bard will do no such thing with Zalikor, the attack boost might affect the intervals on the h2h attack but that's about it.

400 DPS still beats Zalikor though, which is the problem. Also, Zalikor had some resist rate issues in parses against a 103 dummy, I assume that will only get worse against red con bosses.

I didn't run synergy on my parses for simplicity's sake. It will marginally increase the pet damage since they flying kick.

I want Zalikor to work, I've been campaigning against cloud since I first cast it because it doesn't feel monkly to me. But the damage is not there yet.

Mris
04-14-2013, 03:13 PM
I want Zalikor to work, I've been campaigning against cloud since I first cast it because it doesn't feel monkly to me. But the damage is not there yet.

I can't say as I want Cloud to stick around, either. I can make it feel monkly, telling myself we don't have 'pets', just representations of how fast our fists are. But mechanically, it just doesn't hold up. Pets shouldn't be a monk thing.

Yyevil
04-14-2013, 05:50 PM
Bard or no bard? It's a huge part of the discussion with cloud, bard nearly doubles the damage. Bard will do no such thing with Zalikor, the attack boost might affect the intervals on the h2h attack but that's about it.

400 DPS still beats Zalikor though, which is the problem. Also, Zalikor had some resist rate issues in parses against a 103 dummy, I assume that will only get worse against red con bosses.

I didn't run synergy on my parses for simplicity's sake. It will marginally increase the pet damage since they flying kick.

I want Zalikor to work, I've been campaigning against cloud since I first cast it because it doesn't feel monkly to me. But the damage is not there yet.

3/4 of the night with a bard

Zzlaarr
04-16-2013, 04:39 PM
At some point beta threads won't be available anymore so I figured I'll keep a copy of my SoF Beta summary here. Maybe we can move it to another section (Post Beta Section, Nedrom? :) )...

Well, since we seem to be in design lock now and a lot of useful ideas and questions have been posted I have tried to make a summary of the still pending issues I have found after rereading all the posts in the AA section.

One small request...
Please use the existing threads for further discussions this is not meant to be the place to discuss single issues, it's just meant to be a help to keep track of things discussed here in beta. However feel free to add issues if I forgot anything.

Eli, please feel free to edit my post if you would like to add something.


***********************
Two-Finger Wasp Touch


Known Issues:
only affects Tiger Claw -> Eagle's balance will be less DPS than VoA disc
Rank stacking/overwriting issue?
Another debuff -> debuff slot limit issue



Request:
add Eagle Strike/other special abilities other than FK
merge effect to Synergie debuff instead of activatable AA



Status: no reply

***********************
Thunderfoot


Known Issues:
wrong skill (Backstab) - changed to FK
low base damage - increased to 3000@highest rank
low proc rate - proc rate was increased
visible spell effect not appropriate - no reply



Status: no "critical" pending issues, let's see how it works out on live

***********************
Hastened Ironfist


Known Issues:
3 minutes per rank is not enough, Disc will still be at 21 mins reuse
weakest monk disc
Request:
5 minutes per rank or more ranks -> goal 15 mins or lower reuse



Status: no reply

***********************
Stonewall upgrades


Question:
Does it actually do anything?



Status: no reply

***********************
Extended Impentrable Discipline


Known Issues:
doesn't work with new Earthforce disc (Impenetrable upgrade)
Request:
should also enhance Earthforce disc



Status: no reply

***********************
1HB Weapons


Changes:
Fists of Fury now works for 1HB
Known Issues
Still weaker DPS than HTH
Request:
Similar AA like Punch Mastery to make 1HB a viable option



Status: watch and evaluate

***********************
Tiger Claw


Known issues:
not affected by Cleave
low base damage, most of the damage comes from flat +dmg mods and therefore does not scale much



Status: no reply (cleave might be fixed with general spell slot raise)

***********************
Crit Rate


Known Issues:
crit rate is very low, lowest of all melee classes
Request:
AA to increase crit rate



Status: open

***********************
Monk special abilities


Known issues:
Stunning Kick/Eye Gauge/Crippling Strike on same timer
Eye Gauge/Crippling Strike are way less damage than Stunning kick and will not be used
Reuse timers not in synch
Request:
keep on same timer but make all use Flying Kick skill and adjust base damage to make them situational interchangable



Status: no reply

***********************
Monk special abilities range


Known issues:
very low range (less than melee range)
Request:
range should be increased so it works at max melee range



Status: no reply

***********************
Misc AA requests


Battle leap type ability - no reply
Hastened Terrorpalm - no reply
Hastened Speedfocus (more ranks) - no reply
Hastened Heel of xxx - no reply
Extended Heel of xxx - no reply
DS mitigation for Kicks/Specials - Reply: no
Cloud of fists enhancer AA - no reply
Hastened Imitate Death (more ranks) - no reply (not in this beta at least)
Assassin's Wrath type AA - no reply

***********************

Yyevil
04-16-2013, 06:35 PM
Those were just the last list?

i assume there was actually a more extensive list where things were changed/discussed/finalized?

Cause there's 90% "no reply" there, which I find odd.

Nedrom
04-16-2013, 07:03 PM
Zz, can you also post a summary for discs?

Thanks =D

tanecho
04-16-2013, 08:18 PM
Zalikor's Fang

Originally on Synergy timer, then on heel timer, then on cloud timer, damage was too low the whole time.

Swift Reflexes

Decent from the start.

Protection of the Shadewalker

Complaints about it being in disc window, unanswered. Proc rate increased after pointed out that it was weak, remains fairly weak, might be useful for swarming if nothing else.

Earthforce Discipline
Complained about duration, reuse, and lack of rune vs. impenetrable discipline. Duration and reuse fixed, rune was claimed to be added in beta but never actually was.

Rallon
04-17-2013, 01:25 AM
So other than getting robes back not much to look forward to?

Vanni
04-17-2013, 03:47 AM
Hardly nothing to look forward to. The wu's chain change, the unlinking of eagle claw and the lowered re-use of synergy were pretty big. They've made Heel and Ironfist much much better discs. I haven't parsed anything yet, but just eyeballing it, I'm cranking out a lot more damage in general.

Aggememnon
04-17-2013, 05:10 AM
I noticed the t3 BP has earthforce focus now

Aggememnon
04-17-2013, 05:20 AM
by the way - anyone know offhand the alt activate code for wasp?

Kaliaila
04-17-2013, 06:00 AM
The two things to consider with Zalikor's Fang "line" while the current version/itteration isn't better than Cloud of Fists without a bard in groups and possibly on raids, we can 1) work to get the dmg boosted so that the dps is at least better than cloud without a bard in group and 2) that hopefully it will be an upgraded skill and if we can't get all of the dmg boost we would like in this go round hopefully we can with the next itteration.

I'm stoked about the robes though.

Ughbash
04-17-2013, 08:00 AM
So other than getting robes back not much to look forward to?

We are getting robes?

SWEET!!!!!

So guess we do get somethign this expansion :)

Yyevil
04-17-2013, 08:38 AM
meh you all and the stupid robes. If I wanted to still wear a dress, I'd stil be playing my enchanter as my main.

Nedrom
04-17-2013, 09:48 AM
The two things to consider with Zalikor's Fang "line" while the current version/itteration isn't better than Cloud of Fists without a bard in groups and possibly on raids, we can 1) work to get the dmg boosted so that the dps is at least better than cloud without a bard in group and 2) that hopefully it will be an upgraded skill and if we can't get all of the dmg boost we would like in this go round hopefully we can with the next itteration.

I'm stoked about the robes though.

The posts on beta forums said that fang parses lower than clouds with or without a bard. Unless I read them wrong?

Gorkeyah
04-17-2013, 10:19 AM
The posts on beta forums said that fang parses lower than clouds with or without a bard. Unless I read them wrong?

Those parses for fang were definitely lower on a parse mob. There was some talk about whether it would be the same on a raid mob since rampage tends to kill the pets off before they finish, and fang might be resisted more. It seems the best we could hope for with how they are now is that they end up roughly the same. I don't think a raid mob will change things enough to make fang clearly better.

Does fang have some agro like 5point does now? I use 5pt a lot to grab mobs off other raiders who can't stand up to a mob if they get agro, or to save the tank if his hp dips from slow healing or a bad round. If so, fang could potentially still have some use for that.

btw, speaking of cloud... I've rarely done it, but when I'm soloing group content I've let the cloud pets tank a bit while I FD and wait for mend to recycle. They don't last long, but usually I just need a few seconds for mend, and they keep the mob from running off, or regenerating. :)

Gorkeyah
04-17-2013, 10:20 AM
I noticed the t3 BP has earthforce focus now

Which could be good or bad if earthforce still doesn't have the rune working.

Gorkeyah
04-17-2013, 10:29 AM
So other than getting robes back not much to look forward to?

I'm looking forward to the new aa's which are mostly dps oriented. There's about 400aa points worth. I have 170 aa banked for when I log on. :) (70 + 10*10pt rewards)

I'm starting to use trade skill gear, and I hate the leather look, so the robe thing might be good, though I haven't really noticed any robe augs that look great.

I hate the leather look of trade skill gear (on a human). Pants/shoes/gloves aren't so bad in leather. Wrists are crappy but not too too bad. I hate the sleeves and bp, but I'm getting regular raid drops for those two slots.

However, truth is I look like a gnome robot most of the time anway. :)

On test there's mention of easier skill ups on disarm and intimidation. I hope that's going in too, though it's really just a check in the box to get done. heh

Zzlaarr
04-17-2013, 10:53 AM
The summary above is mostly just a list of the still "pending" issues that were discussed/brought up but never came to a conclusion.
It's basically a list of stuff we can bring up again if needed and when an opportunity arises.

In my opinion this beta (other than spells) was a big gain for monks with a lot of fixes and improvements.
Now we will see how it all works out in live environment.

Aggememnon
04-17-2013, 11:00 AM
I'm looking forward to the new aa's which are mostly dps oriented. There's about 400aa points worth. I have 170 aa banked for when I log on. :) (70 + 10*10pt rewards)



I have 70 banked AA, 10 task rewards (10AA each) in the reward window, plus 6-7 final hails (about 3AA each). I'm *fortunate* that I got started late on collections; I have all but one to claim, which probably adds up to 400 odd alone. When is the next content release? ;p

Gorkeyah
04-17-2013, 01:53 PM
As sof got closer I started thinking about putting off hails, etc, but I've been powering up my task based charm/charm-aug and didn't want to bother having to run around after for a bunch of hails. What I've been doing is burning a glyph so that I can spend the AA which I then get back on hail. Complete waste of a glyph but slightly better than the alternative. :)

The collections I haven't been working on other than grabbing stuff on the ground when I run across it. The collections just seem to big for me to ever think about completing at this point. Maybe after I've whittled it down casually it'll look more reasonable to me. The only thing I'd want from it is the aug for doing them all. The AA's mostly go to waste even with the short window where we need AA's again.

Fujitsu
04-17-2013, 04:28 PM
Mind if i ask which 10 tasks you have banked for 10 aa each?

tanecho
04-17-2013, 04:45 PM
Any RoF achievement, collection or quest, is where I had my 10s.

Kaliaila
04-17-2013, 08:00 PM
The posts on beta forums said that fang parses lower than clouds with or without a bard. Unless I read them wrong?
You are right my point was that we should aim for getting them to make Fang better than cloud without a Bard and let the rest happen 'naturally' as the line is upgraded.

Ahnanna
04-17-2013, 09:27 PM
I'd buy a new expansion simply for robes. Have hated the leather look for years now. Probably the main reason I'm in an illusion 99.5% of the time.

konqwestd
04-17-2013, 10:52 PM
by the way - anyone know offhand the alt activate code for wasp?

1235

Rallon
04-18-2013, 01:29 AM
So what's the best combinations now for a group geared soloing monk and what aa's offer the best return?

Aggememnon
04-18-2013, 06:01 AM
No rune on earthforce ;(

For what AA to buy first I would say thunderfoot, hastened synergy and wasp

Imuu
04-18-2013, 11:44 AM
Yeh thats the route i went, got max thunder and hast Synergy as soon as i logged in lol

Gorkeyah
04-18-2013, 02:24 PM
Mind if i ask which 10 tasks you have banked for 10 aa each?

A couple collection quests, and mostly partisan/merc achievements for various rof zones. (I've been doing all the tasks because my charm / charm aug power up based on number of rof tasks completed).

Gorkeyah
04-18-2013, 02:34 PM
So what's the best combinations now for a group geared soloing monk and what aa's offer the best return?

For what AA to buy first I would say thunderfoot, hastened synergy and wasp[/QUOTE]

I mostly agree, but wasp really doesn't seem to add much to tigers as has been noted before. Hastened synergy is probably the biggest, followed by thunder. Some of the other stuff (e.g. unlinked tiger, wu changes, zanfi changes, punch mastery changes) you already get by default. If you don't have maxed wu and punch mastery, I'd work on those too.

In the rof tree zone (forget the name) fighting dark blues and even con stuff I was mostly averaging about 20-22k dps or so -sometimes much higher with some lucky rounds, and that was with no discs and some switching away to my shaman box for a slow, or heal. In other words, about what beastlords already were doing. heh

Once I had an opening salvo of around 300k-ish (synergy, fk, tiger, stunning kick, auto attack -and I'm sure I must have proced thunder) Time to imagine the perfect opening round. Maybe iron going, hit all the attacks once including five point, crane, and bane... synergies already on mob... perfect crits. Crane/iron was already good for 600k, so I'm thinking 1million or so. :)

Anyway... hastened synergy is big if you're solo. If you land on the right part of the timer tick, your next synergy kick lands with the first synergy kick debuff still on. And make sure you setup some key binding for tigers to make that easy to add in.

All in all, it makes the HP on rof mobs not so much of a burden when soloing. heh

tanecho
04-18-2013, 09:50 PM
Once I had an opening salvo of around 300k-ish (synergy, fk, tiger, stunning kick, auto attack -and I'm sure I must have proced thunder) Time to imagine the perfect opening round. Maybe iron going, hit all the attacks once including five point, crane, and bane... synergies already on mob... perfect crits. Crane/iron was already good for 600k, so I'm thinking 1million or so. :)


A wizard I was grouped with last night linked me a parse of me doing 1.2 million in 2 seconds, at 604k dps.

Gorkeyah
04-18-2013, 10:28 PM
A wizard I was grouped with last night linked me a parse of me doing 1.2 million in 2 seconds, at 604k dps.

There you go. Heh

Kelefane
04-24-2013, 06:44 PM
Impenetrable rune still isnt on Earthforce.

Curious when this will even get fixed. This was complained about when Beta was still actually going on and it wasnt remedied then either.

Im guessing all of you are still using Impenetrable until Earthforce gets fixed?

tanecho
04-24-2013, 08:47 PM
I am.

I won't hold my breath honestly. It was something they said they'd give us, but it never actually went into a beta build. And we aren't the only class that got questionable "upgrades". I'd be pleasantly surprised if it did go in.

Kelefane
04-24-2013, 10:00 PM
has anyone PMed Aristo about the Earthforce issue?

sojuu
05-06-2013, 04:55 PM
I'v PMed Aristo, chandrok, and piestro with no replies. I'v posted in all the bug reports in the forums where they ask for that sort of stuff and nothing

sojuu
05-07-2013, 11:43 AM
I finally got a reply back from chandrok, stating that next patch impen rune should be triggered after the next patch.

Ishtass
05-07-2013, 12:48 PM
Sweeet, thanks Sojuu

Yyevil
05-07-2013, 02:04 PM
I finally got a reply back from chandrok, stating that next patch impen rune should be triggered after the next patch.

Earthforce Rune you mean?

sojuu
05-07-2013, 02:41 PM
yea the impen rune for earthforce

Rasputyn
05-07-2013, 03:13 PM
Excellent.

Zzlaarr
05-07-2013, 04:58 PM
Great news!

Archus
05-09-2013, 01:45 PM
Does our AA extend it, however? If not, then isn't Impen still superior due to longer duration and chance of Rk 3 rune? Anyone confirm AA extension from existing AA on Test?

Gorkeyah
05-09-2013, 01:47 PM
Does our AA extend it, however? If not, then isn't Impen still superior due to longer duration and chance of Rk 3 rune? Anyone confirm AA extension from existing AA on Test?

You could test the current live disc. I don't think they're changing that aspect.

tanecho
05-09-2013, 02:32 PM
Current live disc innately has the duration extension, the AA does nothing for it.

Gorkeyah
05-09-2013, 02:49 PM
Current live disc innately has the duration extension, the AA does nothing for it.

I recall that they reduced the timer so you didn't need the tunic, but I didn't know they changed the duration so you didn't need the AA. heh

Kelefane
05-11-2013, 05:01 PM
And then the cry for nerfing Monks is starting to happen:
http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/index.php?threads/high-end-guilds-in-demand-of-zerkers.200100/

I knew the second that Zerkers got nerfed that this was going to happen :confused:

All I know is, in my guild, Monks are not outparsing our Rogues and Zerkers on any consistent basis. Is this really happening elsewhere? And my guild has excellent Monks too. But at the same time, our Rogues and the only Zerker we have are also excellent. So im thinking that this is a case of bad players trying to get a certain class nerfed. In fact, in that thread there, the Zerkers are saying that HHE is broke. So that also effects Rogues and sort of brings Rogues into their conversation too.

Rasputyn
05-11-2013, 06:25 PM
Elidroth said HH is bugged/broken when zerkers asked for an AA like the monk/rogue HH proc. So the zerks are just parroting what he said.

I think Elidroth was just confused about how HH works/affects delay but it's possible there is a legitimate bug somewhere too. The problem is the bug could be something totally unrelated, because HH is working ingame the same way it always has.

As for monk v. rogue v. zerker damage on raids, monks are in a solid spot. Zerks need a little love for sure. I'm not comfortable commenting on rogues really, Qulas or Sav prolly have better rogue info than we do.

How are monks that don't raid doing? I feel like they should be dominating rogues/zerks in the group only setting, but it probably doesn't matter since group casters+caster mercs will still shit all over all of them.

Gorkeyah
05-11-2013, 11:00 PM
I thought the hh thing was about our speed focus, which is now a third rate disc anyway and HH isn't why we're doing better.

They should remove the root from that zerker disc to help them. They seem fine on raids to me. I hear them complaining about caster dps, but we are all in hat boat, though I'm happy enough now anyway.

I'm still figuring out my raid dps potential but it appears I beat our rogues on longer fights. Rogues need a really short fight to stay ahead. Wizards win, though we only have one. If I'm over powered, they should have Nerfed beasts already. Heh I think I can beat them now, but really it depends on the fight with rogues, beasts and monks in the running. Zerkers often out due to death.

I think zerks could use better agro control, and getting rid of that root on their disc.

Kelefane
05-12-2013, 02:37 AM
lmao, that thread got deleted.

Gorkeyah
05-12-2013, 09:24 AM
lmao, that thread got deleted.

Weird.

Vothsisx
05-12-2013, 06:16 PM
My smart ass posts are always getting deleted. Shame I haven't played with Sony lately.

Kimosavi
06-09-2013, 08:24 AM
Can we request a new AA line for Moving Mountains, definitely a hastened line for it and possibly a hate component for those times when you need it ;-)

That would be awesome.

Ishtass
06-09-2013, 11:27 AM
Definitely no to the hate component imo.