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sojuu
02-21-2013, 01:21 PM
I think I may have a way to have gotten the dev's attention. The message from them was as follows:

"If you have specific suggestions, please feel free to submit them. I'm happy to review and forward them on to the Dev team. Something else that would be helpful would be a concrete statement on what you exactly feel the issue with monks is. While we are aware of the general nature of the issues that have been recently been posted, it rarely comes with a more formal statement of where you believe the problem is."

So if possible would like to formulate some sort of concrete statement we can agree on that is the monks problems. I guess we need to be more specific than we have been in the past. Any input on what and how we need fixes. Personally I dont feel we should hold back from anything that we were denied before such as increasing our crit rate. Anything and everything should be taken into account to get us a fix. After a few days I'll see if I can put it all together into one proposal as a last ditch effort to get us something. I don't know if anything will come of this but just trying to get us something.

Maereax
02-21-2013, 01:36 PM
deleting to make myself look like a cool, level headed and rational person rather than the hulk 2.0: monkly style

Ughbash
02-21-2013, 01:43 PM
Monks currently do not bring enough to a raid or group to be deserving of a spot. In a raid the only thing they bring is substandard DPS where other classes bring more DPS and in some cases also buffs that will help others. This is especially noticeable in fights that have mechanisms to restrict us from melee range as we are the absolute worst DPS at range.

Possible solutions would be to Increase our DPS to the level of Rogue in Melee and give us some additional form of ranged damage, such as a Bow or a Throwing disc.

Another option would be to give us a smaller DPS increase and the ability to be an off tank. Currently our tanking is below Warriors, Knights and Rangers. If we are expected to be pure melee and not have range we need the ability to not get killed by a single bad round of AE rampage.

The final option would be to once more design raids in a manner that required a FD puller or a team of FD pullers to avoid wiping the raid. The problem with that is it would annoy most players to have to do the clearing for raids, and enough classes currently have pulling tricks that it can no longer be considered the bard/monk domain.

Maereax
02-21-2013, 03:06 PM
I got the message too and I submitted three replies to the conversation. I'm going to post them here, if anyone not currently involved wants to add anything, I'd be happy to spam them further(I wrote a novel.) I'm trying to keep a level head through all this (as easy as it is to fly off the handle), so let's keep things neutral if at all possible.


Piestro, since you're the one that offered to pass on our suggestions, I'll direct this at you. Right now we as a class are really feeling left out in the cold here. Monks are seriously hurting in the raid game right now, and nobody seems to be bothered by it but us.

I'm adding this in after typing most of this out, but the 'thesis' of my post here is this:
Our biggest problem is that there is just no reason to bring a monk on a raid anymore.

There is no reason to bring a monk onto a raid over a rogue, zerker, ranger or beastlord. All four melee DPS classes bring more DPS than we do and three of the four bring ADPS, and two bring raid required buffs/utility.

In previous expansions we were told that we were pullers and had mend so we shouldn't be the top DPS-ers. While I really don't agree with the logic, it's a moot point now. There are no more raids that require pulling and mend, while nice, has lost the advantage it once gave us. Most of the healing done on raids outside of the main tanks is now multi-target heals, be it group/recourse/splash.

We are not asking to match the 'pure melee' classes. We have mend, and are able to do some limited tanking in group content and do have the ability to pull in groups (other non-puller classes now do it better than us, but that's another issue entirely) and do not want this changed. We feel it's fair to have us ahead of hybrids by ~20% and behind rogues/zerkers by 5-10%. At the very bare minimum we should be beating rangers and beastlords.

Just as a sidenote, this has nothing to do with us wanting other classes nerfed or retuned or even touched. We don't. We want ourselves brought back into line with the rest.

#2:

As far as how this can be accomplished, there are so many suggestions out there, you really can just throw a dart at a board and hit something. Someone above me linked a multitude of posts that show our problems, I'll recap them in this conversation so you don't have to chase them down:

Back before... SoF i think?, monks had an innate higher damage table. We were in a very strong place during that time and this was removed for that reason. This was something extremely unique to our class, and it was implemented a long, long time ago because we share weapons with beastlords and were intended to do more damage then they do. After it was removed from us, it was farmed out to rangers I know, I'm not sure if any other class has it.

Our crit rate is abysmal. We crit around 19% of the time before heroic dex. This is by far the lowest of any DPS class, but when it was brought up in the monk/rogue AA chat we were told that you guys didn't want to touch crit rates anymore. This is particularly upsetting because basically what happened is most/all of the other DPSers were given critrate abilities and the door was slammed shut on that while monks were still out in the cold.

Our flying kick damage is laughable. Rogues do ~35% of their DPS through backstab? Flying kick itself is less than 2% of ours. Combined with other abilities that do flying kick damage but are not actually flying kicks (our synergy discs, BP procs and crane stance disc all APPEAR as flying kicks on parses and in battle spam, but are not actual kicks) bump that damage up significantly on parses, but almost none of that comes from the actual ability 'Flying Kick'. This is especially upsetting because we spend like five hundred or more AA's to increase our specials and they're... bad.

Our similar abilities are just not as good as other classes. For example, our Fists of Steel AA that we recieved in House of Thule. It's an innate +h2h damage boost and a chance to proc hundred hands with any h2h/2HB weapon. Rogues were given the exact same AA the next expansion called 'Etherium Blades.' It's the same hundred hands proc with a +piercing mod. The difference is, theirs procs almost twice as often. Another perfect example is a rogues ability 'Rogues Fury' and a monks ability 'Infusion of Thunder'. Both were supposed to be combined with our main burn discs to seriously enhance them. Here's where the problem with this lies:
IoF at max rank:

“1: Add Proc: Infusion of Thunder Effect rate mod 20
3: Increase All Skills Minimum Damage Modifier by 80%
8: Increase All Skills Damage Modifier by 80%”
Rogues Fury at max rank:

“Slot Description
2: Increase All Skills Damage Modifier by 210%
3: Hundred Hands Effect
4: Increase All Skills Minimum Damage Modifier by 210%
8: Increase Chance to Hit by 10% with All Skills”
There's a significant difference between the two but... why?

Something that was distinctly unique to us was our hundred hands effect. It's been our primary source of damage since level 63 and now just about every melee class out there has the effect. Meanwhile ours gets stagnated because we have recieved no upgrades to it since level 63 and the combinable effects (infusion of thunder primarily) don't match up to what others can combine with theirs.

Yet another concern we have is our disc timers. Right now our four burn disc timers are: 13 minutes (speedfocus), 21 minutes (terorpalm), 15 minutes (heel) and 30 minutes (iron). Our options in a zone like ToV are to burn well every fourth mob, or do half burns every other mob. There's not another DPS class out there with two burn discs over 20 minutes. This is not part of the primary problem, but it further compounds it. Not only can we not DPS as well as the rest of the melee in the raid, we can't do it as often.

I just want to stress again, this isn't a nerf call. My comparisons here are not because I want rogues to do less damage, they're here to show how we have been stagnated and possibly ways to catch us back up.

There are many, many more ways to help fix us in the ways that we want. We completely understand that you have limitations on what you can and can't do. There are a multitude of us that are willing to work with you via parses, or real life raid environment experiences, or just testing different things. Whatever it takes to get us where we should be. We just need someone to work with us and communicate rather than ignoring or working against us. I'd like to take this opportunity to apologize on behalf of any of the monk class that is frustrated or bitter and taking it out on others. This is an issue that has been ongoing for years now, and all we want is to be able to enjoy the game like we used to and many other classes do now.

#3:

Just as an afterthought, re-reading my posts here and the AA chat logs from the RoF monk/rogue AA chat back in december.

There are a LOT of monks that are unhappy right now. I don't know of any raiding monk that is currently happy with where we stand. The majority of that reason is because we're so far behind, but one serious contributing factor is that there's no communication. Back in the AA chat, Elidroth didn't really give us any concrete answers but did allude that there were things in the works. A lot of monks were extremely unhappy with the end result of that chat and many have been talking about and have since rerolled to another class. Cherry-picking through the chat leaves me to think that we might actually have some fixes in the works, but we would have no idea about it. There has been no communication that I know about between any of the devs and us players in regards to the problems discussed, meanwhile we see fixes for other class in every patch, and now this berserker weapon change is up in everyone's face.

My point being, It's really easy to feel ignored and to be frustrated about it.

Ishtass
02-21-2013, 03:34 PM
Influx of personal opinion on how to fix something that people don't agree on. Followed by dev that would rather not do something than figure out a solution from all the mess.

Vothsisx
02-21-2013, 04:10 PM
Stuff in no particular order


Crit rate - it is too low. Logically with the amount of attacks we do we should make up for this. We don't. It needs to be raised.

Flying Kick - the damage is too low from the Flying Kick button. Not from Synergy or Stun Kick, but from the Flying Kick button. We have hundreds of AA points invested into this and it does what, 2000 damage a hit? Our other special attacks do maybe 600 a hit. It is not enough despite what some people think. Increase the damage granted by our AA abilities. Increase the chance of Flying Kick triggering from a Wu's chain.

Cloud of Fists - this needs to be phased out. Move the Seven-Step Pattern and all others of this line onto the Cloud of Fists timer.

Zzlaarr
02-21-2013, 05:23 PM
What boggles me the most is that the devs don't seem to have a clue about their own game and in what state the classes are.
What happened to the "Vision"? What is their "Vision" for the monk class? Do they have one at all anymore?

What saddens me the most is the lack of communication and the will to even enter a real dialog to get stuff sorted.

At least that's my impression from following the conversations, especially the latest AA discussion.

I'm curious where this will lead though. Hope dies last...

tanecho
02-21-2013, 05:31 PM
I posted a novel in the discussion, including a lot of the community requests for DPS adjustments.

sojuu
02-21-2013, 07:01 PM
From people included in the conversation alot has already been said. This was said by tanecho:


"To reiterate, the main issue is that there is no concrete reason to bring a monk to a group/raid. There is nothing we really contribute that could not come from another source, and they will add something that we do not in every case.

DPS: Monks are not very high on the totem pole of DPS.

The way I see DPS, there are 6 classes where this is their primary purpose. They are rogue, berserker, monk, wizard, necromancer, and magician. For the melee, rogue is head and shoulders above the rest currently. I believe tuning on weapons was done to bring berserkers more in line with them. Unfortunately, this will leave monks a very large distance behind. Now, berserkers have a limitation in the form of detrimental effects added to some of their burn abilities, and rogues have the rear arc requirement. However, they also bring additional bonuses (rogue: accuracy buff, pinpoint vulnerabilities. berserker: critical aura, warcry). The monk does not provide anyone benefit (our DoDH group buff, fists of wu, does nothing for most melee). Now, the monks slightly higher survivability through our short reuse defensive discipline impenetrable and mend is justification for us being slightly below those two, but not near as far as we are, especially considering we don't bring the bonuses that they do. With the casters, I don't feel there is as much of a balance problem. There is a situation where each is going to shine generally. Wizards over short duration, necromancers over long, and magicians on anything that is magic resistant or something that requires a lot of movement, hiding, etc. Anything that is unfriendly to melee is generally unfriendly to us all equally. AE rampage in this expansion is extremely punishing, I know on several occasions I have gone from over 80% health to dead instantly, being fully raid geared, AC augs in every slot, all defensive AAs, etc. Casters don't have to deal with this, and do just as much damage, so there isn't much justification to bring melee in general currently. I felt previously that this was the unsaid reason for melee damage being higher than casters by a small margin.

I don't expect them all to be implemented, but here are some recommended toggles for DPS:

As mentioned, infusion of thunder is overdue for some serious attention. I think bringing it up to about 150% minimum/maximum damage would not be inappropriate. It pairs with our currently second tier discipline speed focus, that adjustment would make it our first tier disc, but not by a massive margin. This would increase our burst damage without affecting our sustained.

Our critical rate is extremely low. This gives us less benefit from critical damage increasing effects, including but not limited to Veteran's Wrath AA, Shaman epic, and Glyph of the Cataclysm. Bringing this up several percent would help our dps significantly.

Our special attacks currently scale with nothing but AAs and whatever adjustment is made to the synergy debuff each expansion. As time has gone by, these adjustments have not been enough to keep our kicks in line with the rest of our damage. We either need some way for our kicks to scale with equipment or for the AA numbers to be reassessed. There exists functionality I believe that increases our kick damage a paltry amount based on our boot AC, increasing this by a meaningful amount would help and give us something to gear toward to increase our effectiveness at our role. The effects of equipment outside of weapons, ferocity, and cleave on melee dps is poor currently, but that's not a monk specific issue. Another suggestion was to add a massive strike type proc to flying kick, and to reduce flying kick cooldown time. I'm not too keen on reducing the time myself, I barely feel I have time to mash all the buttons as is. I also have mentioned before a significant upgrade to the drunken monkey line of disciplines that adds a meaningful amount (like 1000) per flying kick for the entire duration instead of 1 tick, but with a meaningful endurance drain attached (also like 1000).

As much as I am hesitant to add a new button to an already extremely crowded toolset, we could add another triggered AA ability that gives us an additional attack per round (like the berserker blinded by fury AA ability). I would propose a 1 minute duration, 7 minute reuse to align with our current triggered AAs to allow those who don't want to micromanage them to put them all on a "set it and forget it" button, or you could attach it as an additional effect on the infusion of thunder.

Itemization... I'm sure you've seen the outrage over the baton of flame from CToV. Basically, monks derive a large portion of their passive damage from the fists of steel AA. It adds 330 to every hit, which will be around 10-20% of a monk's auto-attack damage, depending on the situation, gear level, etc. Also, it adds a 15% weapon delay effect like the Beastlord Fury line, which in itself is another large chunk of the auto-attack damage that will vary with group makeup. The baton of flame gains neither of these benefits, and is therefore a downgrade from VoA tier 3 weaponry. I understand there is a desire to get more variety in monk weaponry, so this is the list of things that must happen for that to take hold. Overall, I suggested changing the baton of flame to hand to hand as it seems to be the far easier solution.

1.) Fists of Steel must effect 1 hand blunt weapons, as well as gelid rending for beastlords.
2a.) 1 hand blunt weapons must be made specifically for beastlords and monks as we are balanced around higher ratio weapons.
2b.) Monk/beastlord innate damage table must be increased to use standard ratio weapons, and existing hand to hand weapons must have their ratios reduced to make them equally desirable as blunt weapons
3.) We need more blunt weapons with lower delays because of the above mentioned fists of steel AA, which adds the same amount regardless of delay and therefore favors faster weapon choices.

Move Eight-Step Pattern (and all other X-step patterns) onto the same disc timer as cloud of fists. It has not been upgraded since HoT, and it doesn't feel very monkly to summon pets in the first place. With the multitude of existing swarm pet abilities, removing one will do nothing but good. You can do this either as an upgrade or sidegrade, but I think most would be happy to see the pets gone.

On to raid utility:

Monks are currently the only melee dps class that provide no tangible benefit to others. Our other pure melee counterparts have buffs, and beastlords, rangers, and especially bards have good ADPS buffs. The current melee paradigm is to group them by their ADPS effects for maximum multiplicative benefit. So the ideal group is going to have at a minimum a bard, shaman, rogue, and a berserker. The best beastlord buff can be cast from out of group onto the group, but lets assume for now that they don't and include the beastlord. That leaves 1 spot. Rangers can MGB a buff, and have an additional buff that is group only. Monks generally don't do more damage than the ranger over a short timespan. So let's throw the ranger in there because they can heal too if things are getting rough.

Long story short, since pulling has pretty much been removed from the game, there's no real reason to bring a monk outside of their DPS, and their DPS isn't good. "




And with what maereax added im not sure there will be much more needed to be said. If anything else can be added that hasn't been covered I'll try to throw it in there, but I really don't think there is much more that can be said. And piestro has said "that the summary thats been given is helpful," so hopefully something can come of this.

On a side note was nice to get the devs attention finally, without the input of other classes putting thier two cents in.

tanecho
02-21-2013, 08:13 PM
As a dialog is open, let's keep the brow beating about our current state to a minimum for a while. We don't want to get anyone angry while they are actually talking to us.

Rten
02-22-2013, 12:08 AM
@tanecho we do need to be careful, if we piss them off they are likely to treat us, well like they have been treating us! I think it is fair to call for being civil, but being honest and clear is also beneficial. I think most of what I have read does qualify as positive feedback to the devs. Additionally I think a VERY interesting stat would be how many monks play regularly now days or are being created. The monk community believes (I think legitimately) they numbers are waining, but I wonder what SOE is seeing with regards to our play.

Ughbash
02-22-2013, 08:30 AM
2b.) Monk/beastlord innate damage table must be increased to use standard ratio weapons, and existing hand to hand weapons must have their ratios reduced to make them equally desirable as blunt weapons


Why do I think the only change that will get done is the second half of this... reducing the ratio of hth weapons. After all monks asked for it.

tanecho
02-22-2013, 10:25 AM
It was just an analysis of what needed to happen to make us use blunts. I hope that the framing of the situation makes the status quo for weapons the ideal choice, as it is the easier route.

Aahz
02-22-2013, 10:57 PM
I think it high time all monks gather up and do a strike in pok or the nexus like the great warrior strike way way back in the day.

tanecho
02-22-2013, 11:28 PM
We're so far from raid essential I'm not sure what impact it would make.

Regardless, lets give it a week and see if anything comes of the current discussion. If not, we may want to organize all on one server and make a feign pile somewhere conspicuous.

Kaliaila
02-23-2013, 04:40 AM
I am with tanecho, it is not quite time for a sit in or anything like that; and like he said if it was just us doing it the only disruption would be in the zone we all went to. I think give them a few weeks to a month or so to actually make legitimate efforts to address our issues before planning any kind of mass protest.

And if we do do a "Feign In" (we'll give every non-FD class that comes an FD drink); then we will need a significant backing from most of the other classes. I know that we have the top end players of a lot of the classes in our corner, because they have seen the parses and know where we stand; but I think that we lack the over all support of the community in our plight.

Literally, everyone whether they came to the forums or not knew that Warrior aggro was horrid and was having a bad effect on them in the game. The same is not true with monks. I think that is due in part to our dwindling numbers; most of us have played a monk for years and as such are extremely skilled at what we do. We also generally tend to make a point of doing everything possible to max our dps or otherwise exceed at what we are doing. So when casual Joe groups with us we look like we are miles ahead of the others he has grouped with; when in actuality most of the other people he has grouped with simply were slacking or being lazy.

Yyevil
02-23-2013, 11:51 AM
..................most of us have played a monk for years and as such are extremely skilled at what we do. We also generally tend to make a point of doing everything possible to max our dps or otherwise exceed at what we are doing. So when casual Joe groups with us we look like we are miles ahead of the others he has grouped with; when in actuality most of the other people he has grouped with simply were slacking or being lazy.

This is SO true it isn't even funny. I'd say of the 10 best "players" in our guild 4 of them are monks....or used to be before they all main changed or quit in the last 6 months.

Yyevil
02-23-2013, 11:56 AM
Move Eight-Step Pattern (and all other X-step patterns) onto the same disc timer as cloud of fists. It has not been upgraded since HoT, and it doesn't feel very monkly to summon pets in the first place. With the multitude of existing swarm pet abilities, removing one will do nothing but good. You can do this either as an upgrade or sidegrade, but I think most would be happy to see the pets gone.

This would be so nice. It would be great to actually use a disc I haven't used since SOD and haven't bought in any form since HOT.

Ishtass
02-25-2013, 11:54 AM
I think it high time all monks gather up and do a strike in pok or the nexus like the great warrior strike way way back in the day.

People would have to realize we were gone for the strike to have any impact.

Rten
02-25-2013, 03:10 PM
Perhaps the impact part could be the few monks left all get large illusions and stand in front of the GGH and GH door clicks in the lobby! Or something like that anyways. Because if no monks showed up to our raids, I think most nights no one would notice, and definately they would not care.

Stonescales
02-25-2013, 04:41 PM
Perhaps the impact part could be the few monks left all get large illusions and stand in front of the GGH and GH door clicks in the lobby! Or something like that anyways. Because if no monks showed up to our raids, I think most nights no one would notice, and definately they would not care.

/agree


IMHO I would feel better about monks if we were not out parsed by BL....beating a dead horse or beast

Kelefane
02-25-2013, 05:41 PM
One thing is for sure, Monks need a passive DPS upgrade. Not another activated DPS upgrade.

Its been mentioned before, but a Monk version of Rogues "Massive Strike" but in the form of a kick, we'll call it Massive Kick, would go a long ways in the right direction for Monk passive DPS.

It wont be a fix-all, because something like this cannot be fixed overnight, however, it will be a big step in the right direction.

I understand Elidroth said something about giving Monks this. So we'll see.

And yeah, having the old damage tables back would be nice too. But I just dont see that happening. I even question whether or not these current devs even know what you guys are talking about when you mention "old damage tables" when discussing Monk stuff. A lot of these current devs were not even around back then. So perhaps someone explaining to them exactly what it was may help? idk

And one more thing: What have the devs said about unlinking Eight-Step and Synergy ?

Zzlaarr
02-25-2013, 05:57 PM
I even question whether or not these current devs even know what you guys are talking about when you mention "old damage tables" when discussing Monk stuff. A lot of these current devs were not even around back then. So perhaps someone explaining to them exactly what it was may help? idk
Sad, isn't it? If players know more about the game than the Devs do?

Kelefane
02-25-2013, 06:03 PM
Two things you guys need to push hard for and this will be a big step in the right direction:

Unlink Eight Step and Synergy
Get a version of Massive Strike

I can actually see the above happening.

Its about baby steps. But doing the above would actually be a big first step (but not a fix-all)

Yyevil
02-25-2013, 07:19 PM
Question: So where is this discussion actually taking place?

tanecho
02-25-2013, 07:53 PM
Well we haven't had much response in the last few days, but in a 6 person conversation on the EQ Forums.

Maereax
02-25-2013, 09:22 PM
Can I ask why everyone seems so into getting six step and synergy unlinked? IMO that's one more button to push every 30 seconds, more constant endurance drain and is going to cause more problems than it solves. Like I said, IMO.

Vothsisx
02-25-2013, 11:50 PM
My rationale for unlinking it and putting it on Cloud timer,

We already have that button to push. It has never been upgraded (Cloud). As long as it continues to exist and do damage, it will be required to be pushed. This is a moderate transition to making use of an ability we already have and never use and phasing out a stagnated one that has never been upgraded.

Now if it were up to me (which is obviously is not), we would have the Flying Kick button, maybe Stun Kick, and our various discs (Zan Fi, Infusion, Spire, DF included) and nothing else. FK would proc the synergy debuff and have it's attack damage absorbed into it based on the level of the character and the AC of their boots.

But I'm not in charge. And due to various things I will not say due to my BFF reading this, it is the best middle ground we are able to see.

Maereax
02-26-2013, 12:02 AM
That's a fair enough point about the cloud timer, but it doesn't address the problem where we do too much DPS with them now and a year from now when synergy and six-step stagnate into our current issue. Some of you may not think that'll happen, for those that do I urge you to look at the history of the two lines.

Dragon fang -> clawstrikers(Cries about CS hits being too big with ashenhand here) -> wheel of fists -> whorl of fists. During SoD (iirc, could have been SoF) we had been stagnated into not doing enough DPS. Solution? Synergy.

Calanin's(cries about stunning kick crits under ashenhand(or whatever it was called at that point here)) -> Dreamwalkers -> Veilwalkers -> Shadewalkers -> maybe if we stick our finger into the electric socket this time we won't get electrocuted?

edit: now that I think about it, I really love the idea above. Why would that not work? Get rid of synergy all together, put the damage into flying kick and make it proc a kick debuff. Hell, make flying kick drain endurance if that's an issue, none of us would really care as long as it wasn't too dramatic

Mris
02-26-2013, 12:36 AM
I could completely get behind ditching Synergy and X-Step. (And Cloud, too.) But you'd need a universally equivalent/superior side-grade to get rid of it. With us already out of whack, this might not be the best time to be looking at that. (But, if we want to address that later on down the road, we need to not ask for X-Step to be moved to a different timer now.)

In any case, while it would improve DPS, revive an unused disc line, make Punch Mastery more useful, and get rid of Cloud, that doesn't feel like the right fix to me. Yes, it could (and likely would) be tossed on a combo key with Synergy, but it's still something to click, something else we have to time just right to disc, and... I really don't know what else, I'll be honest. I do like the idea of passive specials, like the massive kick that seems so popular (though it seems like that would be spiky damage) or a passive AA version of Tiger's Balance. Sadly, it sounds like we're unlikely to get those, due to possible conflicts with passive procs. (As mentioned during the AA chat.)

Well, I now find that I have nothing constructive to post. Hm... I'll work on that.

Nedrom
02-26-2013, 03:09 AM
x-step is a discontinued disc as per aristo during rof beta...don't expect any changes/upgrades.

Gorkeyah
02-26-2013, 02:02 PM
I don't really like the idea of the synergy debuff being a random proc. It'll be harder to take advantage of for stunning kicks, for instance. i.e. are you going to hold off on stunning kick hoping synergy procs again? (oh and it just proc 2x in the past 2 seconds, and now it's been a minute since the last proc)

Ishtass
02-26-2013, 02:05 PM
One thing is for sure, Monks need a passive DPS upgrade. Not another activated DPS upgrade.

And one more thing: What have the devs said about unlinking Eight-Step and Synergy ?

:confused:

Kelefane
02-26-2013, 03:15 PM
:confused:

If you put Eight Step on the same timer as Cloud of Fists you'd still have the same amount of buttons to push as before, but more DPS.

Kaliaila
02-26-2013, 06:05 PM
x-step is a discontinued disc as per aristo during rof beta...don't expect any changes/upgrades.
And if I remember right, he was pretty much against moving it to any other timer. Which was why the discontinuation.was mentioned in the first place.

Kaliaila
02-26-2013, 06:29 PM
x-step is a discontinued disc as per aristo during rof beta...don't expect any changes/upgrades.
And if I remember right, he was pretty much against moving it to any other timer. Which was why the discontinuation.was mentioned in the first place.

tanecho
02-26-2013, 08:26 PM
I believe the request then was just to move it to a new timer, which A) probably wasn't room for and B) was a straight upgrade. The current request is to replace cloud with it, which may or may not be more palatable. Also, the decision to discontinue it was made after we requested it, not of their own volition.

I agree it's a band-aid, but we need band-aids for now, as any kind of large scale re-balancing would not occur until next expansion, presumably in November. Hopefully at that point we will have a CRT member to get some of our class's nuances into the developers' minds.

Vothsisx
02-27-2013, 01:06 AM
My idea (TM) is that the new FK with enhanced damage has a high proc rate for synergy to counter the activation.

Also something else just came to mind.

Zerker's have this nifty click on their BP:
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=37498&source=Live

Every time they frenzy it fires off an 8k DD. Meaning if they push the Frenzy button and it activates 2 times, they do two 8k DDs. Having that would be super.

Ishtass
02-27-2013, 11:11 AM
My idea (TM) is that the new FK with enhanced damage has a high proc rate for synergy to counter the activation.

Aren't we having a discussion in another thread about kick range not being as long as melee range? In events where we have to be at max melee to avoid AE ramp, I'd rather not lose my "dps fix".

tanecho
02-27-2013, 12:32 PM
Can't we kick from max melee, just not the aa and disc versions?

Maereax
02-27-2013, 12:33 PM
We already can't use our specials from max melee. If they unlinked six-step and synergy we still wouldn't be able to, lol

Vothsisx
02-27-2013, 03:23 PM
FK lands for me at max melee range. Syndergy, stun, etc have a 50 foot range on them.

I can't remember when but the original Clawstriker's Flurry had a range of 100 on it and was reduced to 50 at some point because we were using it as a pulling tool or something ridiculous like that.

So there's another avenue to explore should we decide to.

Ughbash
02-27-2013, 03:31 PM
FK lands for me at max melee range. Syndergy, stun, etc have a 50 foot range on them.

I can't remember when but the original Clawstriker's Flurry had a range of 100 on it and was reduced to 50 at some point because we were using it as a pulling tool or something ridiculous like that.

So there's another avenue to explore should we decide to.

Think it was Dragon Fang not Clawstrikers. And people were using it to kite non summoning mobs safe but SLOW!!!!

Kaliaila
02-28-2013, 04:33 AM
Think it was Dragon Fang not Clawstrikers. And people were using it to kite non summoning mobs safe but SLOW!!!!
People still do that. I did it for several quests in VoA back when I was level 88, not well geared (didn't really do much HoT in that year mostly did old quests) and I was using Dreamwalker's Synergy. It is slow, but generally safe unless you get hung up on something or make too sharp of a turn.

If there was any reason it would likely have been the pulling one moreso than the kiting one. The kiting with DF or CsF would have been even slower than using DwS or any other higher level one. At best when I did it I might have gotten maybe 3% an attack, so it would be 30 sec x 34 = 1020 seconds which is 17+ minutes to kill 1 mob. Considering how many other classes can kite stuff and kill considerably more than just the 1 mob with a lot less risk plus a lot faster than we can; I don't see them nerfing the range because of it being some 'leet monk kiting tool.

Also, several people suggested moving the Whorl/Step line to the Cloud timer during beta. I want to say that the whole discussion of their not being enough timers to move the Step line to it's own timer and the subsequent suggestions to instead move it to the Cloud timer happened before the Dev even commented. I don't think that the Dev' ever acknowledged those suggestions though. Just said that it was not something they were willing to consider now.

tanecho
03-01-2013, 08:45 PM
Just as an update, there has been no further communication. Feel free to resume bombing the forums with woe, in hopes that they'll recognize something happening.

Yyevil
03-02-2013, 04:19 AM
Just as an update, there has been no further communication. Feel free to resume bombing the forums with woe, in hopes that they'll recognize something happening.

That's so......comforting......

Kelefane
03-02-2013, 04:34 AM
Just as an update, there has been no further communication. Feel free to resume bombing the forums with woe, in hopes that they'll recognize something happening.

What can Monks honestly expect to get DPS wise when this next batch of AAs come out soon?

Anyone have any news on that front? Guesses?

Celephane
03-02-2013, 07:57 AM
Hastened Pattern, Hastened Rest, Hastened Camp, etc... you get the idea

tanecho
03-02-2013, 10:29 AM
Improved cloud of fists, increases the health on our pets by 20%.

Hastened round kick

Improved Imitate death - now more lifelike, as it decreases your health by 100%

Yyevil
03-02-2013, 11:30 AM
What can Monks honestly expect to get DPS wise when this next batch of AAs come out soon?

Anyone have any news on that front? Guesses?

Remember - we're not behind other classes according to Eldroth....we're just tuned differently.

Nedrom
03-02-2013, 01:03 PM
That same developer also said that any dps classes should be interchangeable. Monks are not even interchangeable with mercs right now.

Maereax
03-02-2013, 05:44 PM
I want me some hastened counterforce

rapitiss
03-02-2013, 06:27 PM
Remember - we're not behind other classes according to Eldroth....we're just tuned differently.

Carman, I'm not fat , I'm just big boned.

Kelefane
03-04-2013, 05:18 AM
That same developer also said that any dps classes should be interchangeable. Monks are not even interchangeable with mercs right now.

That needs to be pointed out to Elidroth then.

Aggememnon
03-04-2013, 06:10 AM
Just as an update, there has been no further communication. Feel free to resume bombing the forums with woe, in hopes that they'll recognize something happening.

I think it would be wise to to ensure they remember that we are waiting, but maybe not the best time for a sit in. For example, they will probably be thinking about AA for RoF phase 2. I hope monk improvement efforts are running parallel to anniversary/RoF p2, and do not get delayed because of them...

For future reference, I think those tree illusions are awesome, and quite common from casino. I have a decent pile I believe. A couple of those strategically placed would cause a nice commotion...

Maereax
03-04-2013, 11:32 AM
If monks turn into a forest, do any other classes care?!

Obiziana
03-04-2013, 02:09 PM
If monks turn into a forest, do any other classes care?!

They'll just bring in a fer zerks... A little forest is noting a few axes can't handle.

sojuu
03-05-2013, 01:53 AM
So when do you think a monk sit in would be good? If anything the posts on the forums asking others to join us in our effort may agitate the devs into doing something.

sojuu
03-05-2013, 02:01 AM
I made the last post about the sit in before I checked new info from the devs. The conversation set up between myself, Aggememnon, Maereax, and Tanecho, Chandrok and Piestro had started to become cold. So I basically asked for an update on the status of our fix. This is the reply from piestro:

"The information has been passed on. Now we need to take a look ourselves at the data, then decide how to potentially address matters. Then actually implement changes, test them, and push them to live. It's not a quick process, so immediate change is unlikely. That's not even including the fact that the upcoming Shadows of Fear release has new abilities and such which will impact any balancing going on at this time. "

So I dunno if we should keep prodding every week or so, and maybe even once t3 RoF comes out point out were still broken because I am sure we are. At a loss for what to do, guess all we can do is keep trying.

brogett
03-05-2013, 03:45 AM
Piestro stated that if you were invited to the RoF main beta then you'll have a chance to test Shadows of Fear beta too. Hopefully that will be a fair number of the main posters here.

My advice would be to get ready for testing. Ie get some nice parsing done now to act as baselines so you can rapidly get the parsing done post-SoF2 to see the impact of the new AA changes.

Brog

Nedrom
03-05-2013, 10:11 AM
Piestro stated that if you were invited to the RoF main beta then you'll have a chance to test Shadows of Fear beta too. Hopefully that will be a fair number of the main posters here.

My advice would be to get ready for testing. Ie get some nice parsing done now to act as baselines so you can rapidly get the parsing done post-SoF2 to see the impact of the new AA changes.

Brog

What's sad is back in the day during SoF beta, Wycca spent days parsing on beta and compared all melee classes and his report was just tossed and not considered to be legit.

Thats why I stopped parsing. I'll eat my hat if they actually listen to us and review our parses seriously, so good luck guys.

rapitiss
03-05-2013, 10:43 AM
I think this has been posted before but I think its worth saying again. We need to be able to use all our skill bonuses on 1hb as well as h2h.

I'm getting back into the raiding grind and I see all kinds of weapons sprinkled through NTOV and T1 stuff we're able to do.

tanecho
03-06-2013, 08:02 PM
Nothing I've pitched to the devs but I just had a musing...

What if our master's aura dampened AE rampage damage by a significant amount? Do you think it would warrant our spot in the prime groups? A poster put on the forums that even if our DPS was increased, it's not likely to top the berserkers and rogues, and they will still provide benefit over us through their ADPS. Many in the monk community are against us having ADPS, but what about a passive group defensive improvement?

Aggememnon
03-06-2013, 10:20 PM
Nothing I've pitched to the devs but I just had a musing...

What if our master's aura dampened AE rampage damage by a significant amount? Do you think it would warrant our spot in the prime groups? A poster put on the forums that even if our DPS was increased, it's not likely to top the berserkers and rogues, and they will still provide benefit over us through their ADPS. Many in the monk community are against us having ADPS, but what about a passive group defensive improvement?

I honestly don't see any reason now why monks should not be equivalent dps to rog and zerks. I think at this point with all the farming out of monks abilities, its just time we were all interchangable dps - a term coined actually by Eli during IRC.

I would like to see purely dps improvements. AE ramp is a game issue (imo), and needs to be fixed or decreased in intensity. I don't want any kind of grp ability. Maybe thats just me though.

Maereax
03-07-2013, 01:29 AM
We'd get put into tank groups again like when our aura was the only thing to block riposte/enrage

Ughbash
03-07-2013, 12:02 PM
Or grouped with mages since they do more DPS when up close... So we might get a group with 4 mages and a druid...

Maereax
03-07-2013, 05:27 PM
I already get grouped with the mages and Druids. But only when the obamacare-geared app group is full

Vothsisx
03-08-2013, 09:44 AM
I already get grouped with the mages and Druids. But only when the obamacare-geared app group is full

I have been scowling for almost a day straight but this just brought a smile to my face.

PS - my monks get a shaman ~90% of the time on raids. Just sayin.

Maereax
03-08-2013, 01:13 PM
I have been scowling for almost a day straight but this just brought a smile to my face.

PS - my monks get a shaman ~90% of the time on raids. Just sayin.

<3

PS - I hope your FD fails like nine times in a row. Just Sayin.

Tzarok Ignavus
03-08-2013, 03:29 PM
My wife plays a shaman, so I get one in my group 100% of the time, usually with a BST and a couple rangers....Bard only when we have 3 online in raid, sometimes a zerker instead of the bard or one of the rangers.

Zzlaarr
03-16-2013, 09:06 AM
Finally a reply on SoE boards. Even if no details at least it's something.

I'll be shocked if you're not very pleased with the changes coming next month with Shadow of Fear.
Elidroth Renato
Doug Cronkhite
Asst. Lead Designer - Systems

Imuu
03-16-2013, 10:01 AM
is that directed at us monks?

tanecho
03-16-2013, 10:26 AM
Yes, it's in one of the multiple "monks need help bro" threads. That is for us.

Maereax
03-16-2013, 11:32 AM
Did Eli do the red very or did you?!

Imuu
03-16-2013, 12:01 PM
Eli did

Kaliaila
03-16-2013, 01:08 PM
Not going to hold my breathe, it is fairly well established that what they think we should find pleasing doesn't necessarily mesh with ours. I suppose the SoFe beta, will let us know one way or the other.

Kelefane
03-16-2013, 04:44 PM
It has to mean something regarding DPS. But what that is, is anyone's guess.

Qulas
03-16-2013, 05:45 PM
It has to mean something regarding DPS. But what that is, is anyone's guess.

Class change potions.

Kelefane
03-16-2013, 05:59 PM
class change potions.

lmao

Rasputyn
03-16-2013, 06:32 PM
You guys need to remember, Elidroth was shocked that we aren't already happy with our relative DPS position. I'm all for hoping for the best, but uhh, yeah.

That said, it is nice that he did something and also posted about it. Now we just need to win at this round of 'Spin the Wheel of Everquest OPness.'

Vothsisx
03-16-2013, 11:00 PM
Here I would insert a picture of Grumpy Cat with a caption about holding your breath if I had one.


You guys need to remember, Elidroth was shocked that we aren't already happy with our relative DPS position. I'm all for hoping for the best, but uhh, yeah.

That said, it is nice that he did something and also posted about it. Now we just need to win at this round of 'Spin the Wheel of Everquest OPness.'

When was that last, Luclin?

Gorkeyah
03-16-2013, 11:30 PM
The big surprise is probably fist working with 1hb! Heh

rapitiss
03-17-2013, 01:33 AM
What would it take to make 1hb = h2h for us?

Yyevil
03-17-2013, 01:38 AM
What would it take to make 1hb = h2h for us?

Just adding 1hb to FoS I think, both making it proc off 1hb and having it applied to 1hb. Thus something like the baton of Flame would become a viable weapon. Hope it's more than that though.

Rasputyn
03-17-2013, 02:27 AM
That just makes 1hb a more viable yet still the worst option for us. It would be nice for people who want to use that option, but that's mostly due to itemization in NToV being bad for us.

Kelefane
03-17-2013, 02:52 AM
FOS added to 1HB is just "more options" is all as others have stated. Its not really a "DPS boost"

My money is Monks getting a version of rogues massive strike. Whatever it'll be, its gonna be passive I bet.

Yyevil
03-17-2013, 11:35 AM
That just makes 1hb a more viable yet still the worst option for us. It would be nice for people who want to use that option, but that's mostly due to itemization in NToV being bad for us.


FOS added to 1HB is just "more options" is all as others have stated. Its not really a "DPS boost"

My money is Monks getting a version of rogues massive strike. Whatever it'll be, its gonna be passive I bet.

I understand this and I would call that a minimal improvement to our situation as a whole. I don't believe I said it was a DPS boost for the class. Just for me personally because I have a Baton rotting in the bank.

Aggememnon
03-18-2013, 07:55 AM
I'm normally quite pessimistic, but after reading Eli's post, I find myself genuinely excited. He must have read the relevant threads, and he will know that massive strike alone is not enough. I would expect at least that, massive reduction on disc timers and some h2h mastery AAs. And then some.

I would guess they will come in the next RoF content release, so its pleasing that they did not wait till *after* anniversary and release to start looking at our issues.

I would therefore suggest as many as possible get into beta, cos surely that will eb the staging ground.

Rten
03-18-2013, 11:56 AM
I did laugh in RL at Qualas' class change potion....

I will be cautiously optimistic about the expansion.

On a 55 sec burn last night in a raid, to be in the top 10 you had to have broken 120k dps... and my monk impressive 47K was not even high enough up the dps chain to deserve mocking!

Gorkeyah
03-18-2013, 03:15 PM
If I look at the graph for the 6s window dps in gamparse, I can see diamonpalm dps numbers 90kish and a bit above, but unless I hold off attacking until everyone clicks, I usually see a lower average of like 50's to 60's. heh My guild doesn't have a bunch of dps kings, so our fights are usually longer and I'm always top 10, and often top 5.

For melee, the best rogues (or ones in the best groups), zerkers, and beasts beat me, but I more or less expect that, except for beasts. Necro's win most of the time with these long fights. Wizards and mages can be up there.

So within my own guild, I don't feel so bad, but that's mostly due to the variability between events, and people dying (zerkers have the most issues staying alive). heh

If we took our best rogue, zerker, beast, and replicated them, I would be out of the running, however. :)

Nedrom
03-18-2013, 09:53 PM
FYI, new updates today:

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/index.php?threads/aa-bugs-give-me-your-best-shot.3890/page-11#post-58677

and

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/index.php?threads/this-just-in-our-coders-rock.4591/page-2#post-58634

Yyevil
03-18-2013, 10:56 PM
FYI, new updates today:

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/index.php?threads/aa-bugs-give-me-your-best-shot.3890/page-11#post-58677

and

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/index.php?threads/this-just-in-our-coders-rock.4591/page-2#post-58634

Eld is really being a tease - hehe

Ishtass
03-18-2013, 11:32 PM
FYI, new updates today:

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/index.php?threads/aa-bugs-give-me-your-best-shot.3890/page-11#post-58677

and

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/index.php?threads/this-just-in-our-coders-rock.4591/page-2#post-58634

Kinda sad when this is the good list

Rasputyn
03-19-2013, 11:19 AM
The 1% thing is long standing and is definitely a nice fix. But it affected everyone, so casters especially will benefit from another 1% chance to crit that's always on.

Yyevil
03-19-2013, 11:26 AM
Kinda sad when this is the good list

I believe it is just A list, not THE list.

Zzlaarr
03-19-2013, 03:04 PM
Well it's definitly nothing related to our "fix".

Aggememnon
03-21-2013, 07:12 AM
Trying to get into beta now, but probably have to wait till it opens up (I wasn't in original RoF).
Since its not under NDA (woot!), I'd be happy to get a summary 'heads up' in advance of (hopefully) getting in myself! Good luck on discussions for those already in there!

tanecho
03-21-2013, 09:20 AM
There may be a new NDA at this point.

Rasputyn
03-21-2013, 11:24 AM
Piestro posted-
While there is no NDA for the Beta, we do ask that you still limit discussion of Beta to the Beta forums. Our developers are going to be very active in reading feedback in those forums specifically; if you post feedback elsewhere, it will be missed. Similarly, discussing Beta contents with people who aren’t in Beta isn’t very productive. If you want to discuss Beta, it’s much better to get involved in the Beta yourself. Once our signups are open we will be very quick in handing out invites, so don’t worry!

-----

The no NDA thing is janky. But that basically gives them grounds to remove you from beta for posting stuff, so dunno if anyone will do that for you.

Nedrom
03-21-2013, 12:10 PM
Beta doesn't impress me at all.

Will see how it progresses.

Ishtass
03-21-2013, 01:11 PM
Beta doesn't impress me at all.

Will see how it progresses.

agreed

Nedrom
03-21-2013, 01:51 PM
We need more monks in beta providing feedback

Nedrom
03-21-2013, 01:52 PM
Apply for beta trough this link, we really need more monks in there providing feedback. Devs are less likely to make changes if only small handful provide feedback.

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/index.php?threads/shadow-of-fear-beta-is-now-live.4860/

Lets stand together!!

Imuu
03-21-2013, 01:57 PM
Thats saying beta is Open, not that the signups are open yet. well thats how i understand it.

Archus
03-21-2013, 02:10 PM
Beta doesn't impress me at all.

Will see how it progresses.

+1

Maereax
03-21-2013, 03:15 PM
I'll be shocked if you're not very pleased with the changes coming next month with Shadow of Fear.

http://i.imgur.com/zlCZqSv.jpg

Nedrom
03-21-2013, 03:23 PM
Oh my

Rasputyn
03-21-2013, 03:35 PM
I'm very pleased with class change potions.

Nedrom
03-21-2013, 03:48 PM
Do those change class potions actually exist?

Ishtass
03-21-2013, 04:05 PM
Do those change class potions actually exist?

Only in the Plane of Gullibility

Gorkeyah
03-21-2013, 04:55 PM
I haven't had a chance to try the beta, but I took a look at the forum, and I can say they added a bunch of things that were asked for and some stuff they came up with on their own, so that's probably why they think we're going to be happy.

I think the disappointment from some that have tried is that the net effect of the changes as they are weren't that impressive apparently, but the devs might be making adjustments based on feedback.

I think it does look good on paper for a lot of the AA's. Even though they're not all dps based, or maybe not a lot of dps, I still like them. heh

Nedrom
03-21-2013, 06:10 PM
Btw the same download link and install and installer from ROf works with this beta.

Gorkeyah
03-21-2013, 06:48 PM
Downloading now.. 8GB takes a bit. heh

Zzlaarr
03-21-2013, 07:43 PM
Downloading now.. 8GB takes a bit. heh
Ermmm ... make a copy of your current EQ folder, put the EQ Beta setup file in there and chose that new folder as install location. Now you only will download the changed stuff which really isn't that much.

Yyevil
03-21-2013, 08:49 PM
I haven't had a chance to try the beta, but I took a look at the forum, and I can say they added a bunch of things that were asked for and some stuff they came up with on their own, so that's probably why they think we're going to be happy.

I think the disappointment from some that have tried is that the net effect of the changes as they are weren't that impressive apparently, but the devs might be making adjustments based on feedback.

I think it does look good on paper for a lot of the AA's. Even though they're not all dps based, or maybe not a lot of dps, I still like them. heh

I look forward to the specifics when they are available.

cellic
03-22-2013, 01:53 PM
Off zerker forums:

Monk
96: Earthforce Discipline (strengthens attacks and greatly decreases melee damage taken)
97: Swift Reflexes (allows you to block several attacks if you absorb a very large melee strike)
99: Zalikor's Fang (strikes opponent with physical and magical attacks)
100: Protection of the Shadewalker (allows you to mend wounds with each successful parry or dodge)

There's no NDA btw, so any additional info on whats coming would indeed be appreciated p)

Yyevil
03-22-2013, 02:24 PM
Off zerker forums:

Monk
96: Earthforce Discipline (strengthens attacks and greatly decreases melee damage taken)
97: Swift Reflexes (allows you to block several attacks if you absorb a very large melee strike)
99: Zalikor's Fang (strikes opponent with physical and magical attacks)
100: Protection of the Shadewalker (allows you to mend wounds with each successful parry or dodge)

There's no NDA btw, so any additional info on whats coming would indeed be appreciated p)
3 defensive disciplines? *faceplam* I hope there's more DPS adjustment. Could they seriously be trying to make us into light tanks?

Nedrom
03-22-2013, 02:52 PM
Beta is only 2 days old, best to wait to see how things progress. For now things aren't looking that great, but that may change.

Yyevil
03-22-2013, 03:01 PM
Beta is only 2 days old, best to wait to see how things progress. For now things aren't looking that great, but that may change.

yeah I hate to jump the gun. I don't want to be "THAT" guy.

But this isn't the "trend" i wanted to see. TBH. I'm hoping for different.

Maereax
03-22-2013, 03:15 PM
3 defensive disciplines? *faceplam* I hope there's more DPS adjustment. Could they seriously be trying to make us into light tanks?

Three defensives and an upgrade to a level 69 disc*

*and by upgrade I mean same overall dps, 2x the cooldown for 2x the damage, same timer as synergy and worthless outside of duels.

I'd like to go ahead and quote my above post here:

http://i.imgur.com/zlCZqSv.jpg

Gorkeyah
03-22-2013, 03:41 PM
Off zerker forums:

Monk
96: Earthforce Discipline (strengthens attacks and greatly decreases melee damage taken)
97: Swift Reflexes (allows you to block several attacks if you absorb a very large melee strike)
99: Zalikor's Fang (strikes opponent with physical and magical attacks)
100: Protection of the Shadewalker (allows you to mend wounds with each successful parry or dodge)

There's no NDA btw, so any additional info on whats coming would indeed be appreciated p)

96 is something we probably still wouldn't user over impenetrable, unless they tweak it.
97 This is new and interesting, but probably mostly helps with raid rampage and not so much group content
99 probably wont get used as is because it shares timer with something better, just like what it upgrades.
100 Not sure...

Most of the dps goodness is with the AA changes, but there's lots of talk about the AA's, so not sure what we're going to end up with.

Kimosavi
03-22-2013, 09:27 PM
Bring back Class Specific weps

Nedrom
03-23-2013, 03:25 AM
Spells probably going live as is, Aristo scheduled vacation for the same time as beta (how convenient). Not looking good.

AA are looking better but beta is still not over.

cellic
03-23-2013, 12:17 PM
Any details on those AA? Knowing full well they aren't final and all that, but since there's no NDA it'd be cool to know something of what might be coming.

Yyevil
03-23-2013, 04:52 PM
Any details on those AA? Knowing full well they aren't final and all that, but since there's no NDA it'd be cool to know something of what might be coming.

I personally am in favor of keeping things to the beta forums until things are more finalized. Even though there is no NDA, I feel it is in our best interest to not do things that the devs would find unfavorable, and discussing the AA's in an public forum is risky.

The best place to learn about pending changes is from keeping an eye on the serverwide channel. That is where beta discussions, outside the SOE forums, are taking place.

Aggememnon
03-25-2013, 11:11 AM
I'd agree completely if other boards were not posting monk disc already. Still others are also posting AAs. Would be nice to have them posted here also, to save having to scavenge across other classes boards...

Imuu
03-25-2013, 11:27 AM
I agree, im currently being told about monks beta by every other class in my guild.

Even if it means Ned creates a private beta section or something?

Nedrom
04-02-2013, 07:09 AM
Truth is elusive to those who refuse to see with both eyes.

Yyevil
04-02-2013, 07:32 AM
Truth is elusive to those who refuse to see with both eyes.

wtf?

Zzlaarr
04-02-2013, 09:02 AM
I think Ned is just drunk. :tongue:

Nedrom
04-02-2013, 10:14 AM
Not drunk, enlightened.

Devs are not enlightened because they refuse to look at our class with both eyes.

newkainn
04-02-2013, 10:46 AM
that is very monk like ned.