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sojuu
02-07-2013, 11:45 PM
Just curious if anyone has heard anything recent about fixing monk dps. I have played a monk since day one when I started playing 6 years ago, and really at the point now of considering saying ok soe dev team you win, I will switch my main.

Aggememnon
02-08-2013, 06:36 AM
Getting a timeline for any changes will be hard, especially given we still have no monk crt, and so no direct contact with any dev. I'm sure many have PM'ed - I know I have....


On rerolling - I came to that same conclusion 6 months ago. I started up a rog alt and got him to late 60s *very* easily (posions are v. OP'ed at low levels, healer merc subs for a tank allowing some nice backstabbing, and slow poisons, plus locustlure, made hard content trivial). Far easier than I would a monk I am sure. But my heart was just not in it. I resented being forced to shelf my 12 year main toon, and virtually every minute on the rog felt like I was being held to ransom. Its not right to make a class feel so neglected that they need to reroll. Certainly when my subscription is up next (3 months?), I'll be looking to go f2p if nothing changes. Though I doubt SoE will care.

Ughbash
02-08-2013, 08:50 AM
No real reason to reroll, with that siad I am enjoying Star Wars the New Republic. Onl reasno I am still in the game is a couple friends and trying to get them to swtich games too.

Swtiching toons does not send SOE a message, they still get their money, going to a new game because they have made monk so useless does.

Aggememnon
02-08-2013, 10:59 AM
Only game (right now) I would switch to is WoW, since my son is tryign to convince me to get another account so we can play together. (He is 12). Funnily enough 6 months ago (when i started an alt rog) he asked whether he should play EQ or WoW, and I told him what I thought.

Ishtass
02-08-2013, 11:16 AM
swatter is really fun until 50 where the grind fest is boring as hell

sojuu
02-08-2013, 11:27 AM
I have tried other games, its just not the same feel as eq so I stay here. And it isnt really to get a message accross because one account leaving isnt going to get the message across that monks just suck now days. Its more so to keep having fun with the game, and I have a zerker alt at 85 that I actually bought and bard at 90 same account both all epics done, all trails done and all don progression done. So going to one of those would only mean level and gear. That was the only account I ever purchased and that was long ago, then I have my shaman I normally box with my monk. So I would have options to go to, just perfer not to because it is so hard to give the monk up who I started the game with. Especially not for the reason the class isnt fun except in the aspect the devs want to neglect allowing us to keep up with our counterparts.

Maereax
02-08-2013, 11:52 AM
Just stick with it, enjoy the class for what it is and ignore the numbers for right now. A monk is a monk at #1 on the parse or #20 on the parse. They'll fix our broken damage eventually

Archus
02-08-2013, 01:21 PM
Just stick with it, enjoy the class for what it is and ignore the numbers for right now. A monk is a monk at #1 on the parse or #20 on the parse. They'll fix our broken damage eventually

I'm not a doom and gloomer, and when I retire from EQ it will be because I'm bored or have RL issues, not because of stagnation or mistreatment of the monk class. However, I'm curious why you're so optimistic that they'll fix our broken damage eventually. We've been behind/broken for several expacs now... Other than that, I agree 100% with your first two statements.

Maereax
02-08-2013, 01:47 PM
I'm not a doom and gloomer, and when I retire from EQ it will be because I'm bored or have RL issues, not because of stagnation or mistreatment of the monk class. However, I'm curious why you're so optimistic that they'll fix our broken damage eventually. We've been behind/broken for several expacs now... Other than that, I agree 100% with your first two statements.

I'm not overly optimistic about them fixing us completely, but... Honestly.. Between my personal interpretation of the dev chat (which I honestly don't believe went AS badly as some say) and the fact that in almost every thread on the EQLive forums that mention DPS, some twelve non-monks say that we're in the shitter, I think they'll throw us some kind of bone.

That, and there's just no alternative. I've played a large majority of the other games on the market right now and I've played every single class in EQ at high levels (minus beastlord), and there is just nothing that compares.

I also woke up feeling extremely zen this morning for some reason. Just give it a few weeks and I'll be miserable and threatening to quit again

Nedrom
02-08-2013, 01:48 PM
WoW is a lot of fun when you have never played it before. It's also very pretty compared to EQ, but that's not enough to keep me playing it.

What WoW sucks at is the fact that once you hit max level there is nothing to do, but to start over with another toon.

The quests are so boring you'll never want to do them again.

You'll also be put off by guild invite spamms and people who follow you around to piss you off or won't stop acting like children.

Thankfully when I did my WoW stint, I got my Warlock to 85, and I did it completely solo because my pet could tank ANYTHING in the game and XP and Quests are so easy it puts on the screen arrows and dots on maps where to find/loot items.

So for a few months it will be entertaining, depending on how much time you put into it.

What's my point here? Since 2002, I'm still playing EQ and still playing my Iksar monk.

I won't roll any other classes in EQ because I can't stand any of them but my monk so...

Maereax
02-08-2013, 02:07 PM
Ned i need to send you a PM, I had an idea

tanecho
02-08-2013, 02:47 PM
WoW raiding is kind of ruined by Addons that literally tell you what to do, and if you don't use them you won't be allowed to raid generally. That said, EQ design direction appears to be moving that way, with heavy audio trigger dependency and severe overscripting.

One thing that WoW does great is class balance. There aren't 500 different buffs, there are only a few, and each is done by more than 1 class. They aren't afraid to rock the boat DPS wise, completely changing optimal damage rotations every few months. Classes rarely have a span of more than 10% between them in terms of DPS. It's a different game, but there are a few things I'd like to see move here, like more frequent reassessments of class balance.

Every time a new patch goes on test, I pore over the notes hoping for us to get thrown a bone. I'm not sure how many more times I can handle the disappointment, honestly.

Ughbash
02-08-2013, 03:06 PM
One of the few bright spots from the Dev Speak was the possibility of an AA getting added that gave extra damage per swing.....

Then I thought....

Soem people who Stack Cultural Augs belive they have hit a cap on +dam.

Does this mean the AA will do nothing if we stacked cleave augs with cultural? (would not surprise me)

There is a reaonable chance that Just as +flying Kick has a cap, +HtH has a cap. If we are already at it with Cleave Augs, perhaps adding the AA will do nothing.

I think a large problem is that the devs do not understand their own game. If there is a cap, they might not even know about it.

Maereax
02-08-2013, 03:11 PM
I'm not sure why there would be a cap... When they added the flying kick stat to the game, it probably made sense to say 'well hey, we can't let them stack the hell out of this stat, so we're going to cap it'. There is no "+h2h stat". We gain it through either focus effects accidentally, or through AA's designed specifically to be limited each rank, thus introducing an artificial cap

tanecho
02-08-2013, 03:15 PM
I don't like the +x damage per swing approach, because next expansion they will not increase it enough to keep up with inflation. We need a new +swing mechanic, unique to us, that we can possibly also get a small version of as a group buff to replace fists of wu since it was made obsolete.

Ughbash
02-08-2013, 03:35 PM
I'm not sure why there would be a cap... When they added the flying kick stat to the game, it probably made sense to say 'well hey, we can't let them stack the hell out of this stat, so we're going to cap it'. There is no "+h2h stat". We gain it through either focus effects accidentally, or through AA's designed specifically to be limited each rank, thus introducing an artificial cap

Well lets say they decided to be cheap on memory and used an 8 bit field to control it. That would limit it to +255.

Now lets say they made it signed... We are now limited to +127.

Yes that could be changed with a redefine and recompile (and additional testing) but it is not something they might THINK of.

Maereax
02-08-2013, 03:40 PM
I don't like the +x damage per swing approach, because next expansion they will not increase it enough to keep up with inflation. We need a new +swing mechanic, unique to us, that we can possibly also get a small version of as a group buff to replace fists of wu since it was made obsolete.

Please all mighty monkly god, no.


Well lets say they decided to be cheap on memory and used an 8 bit field to control it. That would limit it to +255.

Now lets say they made it signed... We are now limited to +127.

Yes that could be changed with a redefine and recompile (and additional testing) but it is not something they might THINK of.

Oh, yeah, ok, fair enough, I see what you're going for here. I'm pretty sure we're already way over both of those numbers now though, FoS is +330 alone and we get +32? I think? on every cleave aug, if there's no bonuses I'm missing and we're not running zanfi/2nd spire/DM, we're already at 522.

Ughbash
02-08-2013, 03:58 PM
Please all mighty monkly god, no.



Oh, yeah, ok, fair enough, I see what you're going for here. I'm pretty sure we're already way over both of those numbers now though, FoS is +330 alone and we get +32? I think? on every cleave aug, if there's no bonuses I'm missing and we're not running zanfi/2nd spire/DM, we're already at 522.

Has anyone confirmed that we get the full 330 on FOS?

Would do something for our DPS if we were getting only 255 of the 330 they thought they were giving us. Failry simple to test that on Test...

Cleave Stacking... Has anyone tested it on test and confirmed?

FoS + Cleave Stacking... Anyone confirmed how they combine?

Now add Heroic Strength into the mix...

Ideally would want someone with a full set of Cultural (and maybe the Eruidn Burnign group belt) to test this.

sojuu
02-08-2013, 04:20 PM
We need a new +swing mechanic, unique to us, that we can possibly also get a small version of as a group buff to replace fists of wu since it was made obsolete.

Please all mighty monkly god, no.

Why no? wouldn't it be a good thing to upgrade it to say tripple attack?

tanecho
02-08-2013, 04:29 PM
Some monks do not like the idea of ADPS. I personally like a small amount, as a rationale to include us in optimized melee groups.

Maereax
02-08-2013, 04:44 PM
Because that opens the door for more, honestly.

Right now one of biggest reasons we have for asking to be fixed is that we bring nothing to a raid. Getting a .005% triple attack buff leads to any non-monk support we have saying 'You guys bring triple attack buffs to the raid', and that being held over our heads until they cap triple attack.

I guess if we're explicitly talking nothing more than the wu's line did in DoDH for double, that would be something, but I'm extremely leery of asking for any changes that don't FIX us. Let's get us caught up to where we should be, then get the fluff

Just my opinion

tanecho
02-08-2013, 04:49 PM
I'm talking something in that area, yes. It can't be explicitly triple attack though, beastlord ferocity does that already. My thought was something like a 2-3% chance on swing of an extra swing.

Rten
02-08-2013, 05:49 PM
You can search for some of my parses done in VoA, where I had 2 sets of augs made... and I could test using different number of cleave augs. My parses showed min/max going up for each aug through 5, but for whatever reason 6-7 did not appear to add to my dmg. I have not parsed this with RoF... the worse case would be a number cap... ie 5x25=125 max cleave worn... because then it would be 125/32 ie we would reach the max around 4. But that is TOTAL conjecture on how it is coded. And it may be related to stacking with spells or HStr or a huge number of other variables that I did not even vaguely begin to test. But your basic question of is there a Cleave cap, I believe so.

Maereax
02-08-2013, 06:12 PM
I'm four pieces into cult and planning on going seven plus a teir BP. The seals are cheaper than regular loot with our looting system and I made the gear myself. I'll see if I can figure out a way to parse this out

Maybe put my T4 VoA pants back on for fero, leave one T4 bracer on and put on five pieces of cleave seals, parse, then swap the other bracer with the fero seal in and parse with four pieces of cult?

tanecho
02-08-2013, 06:14 PM
Best way to parse it, if possible, would be to get up to 125, get a new cultural seal, and parse it in your gear both before and after putting it into the amalgamator.

It could be a limitation of the + damage number, or the number of cleave effects though, and it wouldn't give a definitive answer on that.

Maereax
02-08-2013, 07:15 PM
Best way to parse it, if possible, would be to get up to 125, get a new cultural seal, and parse it in your gear both before and after putting it into the amalgamator.

It could be a limitation of the + damage number, or the number of cleave effects though, and it wouldn't give a definitive answer on that.
Do the heroics change once you change it from the default to a focused aug? Depending on what they're at before hand, that could push into another teir of heroic benefit. That's why I was suggesting doing it with a fero bracer and then a cleave. They should have the exact same heroic stats. I'm fairly sure the AC/HP changes once you focus it at least, no?

The second could be tested easily enough with lower +cleave effects

edit: @#1 - they do change but the stats actually go down when making them leather. That's lame as hell.

tanecho
02-08-2013, 09:22 PM
Depends on the slot, not the armor type I believe. Wrists will go down, Legs/BP will go up on heroics.

Maereax
02-08-2013, 11:45 PM
Ah. Gotcha

tanecho
02-09-2013, 01:46 AM
Has anyone confirmed that we get the full 330 on FOS?


When I did my testing for eye of the storm, terrorpalm, etc. to get a formula to approximate average hit based on weapon damage, I took the number I observed as a flat damage boost, removed the pieces I knew the number for (zan fi, second spire, heroic strength amount, weapon damage bonus and cleave) and the unexplained remainder was exactly 330.

Ughbash
02-10-2013, 01:50 PM
When I did my testing for eye of the storm, terrorpalm, etc. to get a formula to approximate average hit based on weapon damage, I took the number I observed as flat damage a flat damage boost, removed the pieces I knew the number for (zan fi, second spire, heroic strength amount, and cleave) and the unexplained remainder was exactly 330.

Ontest it whd be very simpe, usnpend all aa and dps teh dummy naked. Observe min hit and max hit.


Then buy the AA and repeat.

Max and Min hit should be 330 higher.

tanecho
02-10-2013, 04:15 PM
No time to parse on test, too busy leveling the mage to replace me. If I get to 100+4000AA before we're fixed I'm going to main change. :P

Zzlaarr
02-14-2013, 06:51 PM
Rather make a necro... :P

And seriously, why do we only think about AAs when talking about a fix.
I'd rather have them fix our damage table or wouldn't that be the most suitable and easy way to do it?

Am I missing something?

tanecho
02-14-2013, 07:03 PM
Yeah, I changed my mind to necro, I don't think I'd be great at controlling a pet, and I'd just get mad on events where they say no pets in my guild.

I'd still much rather them fix the monk, but I'm done holding my breath for that one. The sheer number of posts in the last few weeks with zero response has just taken the wind out of my sails.

Maereax
02-14-2013, 07:05 PM
We got this guys

Zzlaarr
02-14-2013, 07:07 PM
Elaborate! :tongue:

Maereax
02-14-2013, 08:27 PM
110% blind faith combined with knowing no other class cuts it for me

Rten
02-14-2013, 10:36 PM
I have played a shambot and a magebot. And the mage class is sort of fun, and mage pets OWN... but I just love that a monk with an insta click gate potion can basically sneak/flop/IVU with Imitate Death and I can go anywhere with amazing survivability. And I do find myself using the monk method of conning a mob... I walk up and kick em! And having that survivability coupled with my old memories about desireability (as in other people wanting me around) make it very hard to be happy now days. My guild is full of good people and if they have a slot that does not need to go to a particular class, then I do get invites. But the days where people go Yay a Monk! are so long gone that it is sad. I have been super busy with work lately, but the honest truth is that I am having trouble mustering the enjoyment and will to login and raid or even to just play. And while I have burned out before when I lost objectivity, this is different, this is just losing the enjoyment of playing. I suspect Rten's future is fading... I am like the picture of Marty McFly that is fading as he is wiped from time... My tenuous memories of the glory of the old days are all that has kept me from fading completely already.

rapitiss
02-14-2013, 11:35 PM
I took off around the a bit before HoT was released and came back a couple months before VoF. Had my ass handed to me and now after a year I'm back to max AA and in a guild that seems to be a good fit.

We skipped doing NToV for some reason and are just now starting to hit the dragons and its a lot of fun at the moment.

When I came back I tried out the progression server and did a monk / shammy there and the difference in game tempo is amazing. It's much slower game were you don't have 20 different buttons to hit for a burn and reminds me of why I enjoyed the old game so much.

Celephane
02-15-2013, 05:15 AM
I have played a shambot and a magebot. And the mage class is sort of fun, and mage pets OWN... but I just love that a monk with an insta click gate potion can basically sneak/flop/IVU with Imitate Death and I can go anywhere with amazing survivability. And I do find myself using the monk method of conning a mob... I walk up and kick em! And having that survivability coupled with my old memories about desireability (as in other people wanting me around) make it very hard to be happy now days. My guild is full of good people and if they have a slot that does not need to go to a particular class, then I do get invites. But the days where people go Yay a Monk! are so long gone that it is sad. I have been super busy with work lately, but the honest truth is that I am having trouble mustering the enjoyment and will to login and raid or even to just play. And while I have burned out before when I lost objectivity, this is different, this is just losing the enjoyment of playing. I suspect Rten's future is fading... I am like the picture of Marty McFly that is fading as he is wiped from time... My tenuous memories of the glory of the old days are all that has kept me from fading completely already.

If only there was someone to give all your stuff to

Nedrom
02-15-2013, 01:09 PM
I have played a shambot and a magebot. And the mage class is sort of fun, and mage pets OWN... but I just love that a monk with an insta click gate potion can basically sneak/flop/IVU with Imitate Death and I can go anywhere with amazing survivability. And I do find myself using the monk method of conning a mob... I walk up and kick em! And having that survivability coupled with my old memories about desireability (as in other people wanting me around) make it very hard to be happy now days. My guild is full of good people and if they have a slot that does not need to go to a particular class, then I do get invites. But the days where people go Yay a Monk! are so long gone that it is sad. I have been super busy with work lately, but the honest truth is that I am having trouble mustering the enjoyment and will to login and raid or even to just play. And while I have burned out before when I lost objectivity, this is different, this is just losing the enjoyment of playing. I suspect Rten's future is fading... I am like the picture of Marty McFly that is fading as he is wiped from time... My tenuous memories of the glory of the old days are all that has kept me from fading completely already.

Dude we had some many good years together raiding, I really miss those days. Sometimes I wanna just transfer back to Bristle just to raid with ya again! Sadly tho we'd prob have to start our own raid as we may not fill a spot, or we could run circles in the lobby~!

Ughbash
02-15-2013, 02:39 PM
or we could run circles in the lobby~!

This reminded me of something.....

I was running to NTOV last night and the druid in group was actually running faster than me.

Now it could have just been Z axis... They could have been strafe running or any of a number of things.

But made me curious was Flight of Eagles boosted to the point that it is now faster then run 8??????

P.S. No Jboots are not slower.....

Rasputyn
02-15-2013, 02:52 PM
Cheetah is an AA now.

Maereax
02-15-2013, 02:57 PM
They got group cheeta as an AA last or two expansions ago. It's more or less bard speed for two and a half minutes

Ughbash
02-15-2013, 03:00 PM
They got group cheeta as an AA last or two expansions ago. It's more or less bard speed for two and a half minutes

Nice.... but run 10 will mess up pulling ok got it :)

sojuu
02-15-2013, 03:01 PM
Just another thing we are loosing out on is all. Just like they gave rangers run 8, alot of classes can match or beat our speed even without mounts.

Maereax
02-15-2013, 03:08 PM
Rouges have it too now I'm pretty sure

Which is just rofl

Ughbash
02-15-2013, 03:18 PM
Honestly I am not worried about people matching us... I consider run speed utility more than anything else and think everyone should get Run 10. I just don't thnk others should be faster then us.

sojuu
02-15-2013, 04:08 PM
Well main reason I said it was because of how our abilities are being farmed out and we keep dropping in dps compared to others

Nedrom
02-27-2013, 11:02 PM
I posted this on EQLive tonight, and wanted to share my feelings here as well.

I know my comments are not just on dps, but pulling as well. Many forget that our primary function for many years was pulling, not dps. As much as you want to say it isn't.

One thing everyone forgets and I haven't seen posted... is that there is a huge perception issue with our class.

I've been playing since 2002 before Ykesha expansion came out. Since then monks were strictly known as 'pullers' and often the best pulling class, well over bards before /melody. Now I have raided and grouped with some pretty freaking amazing bards in the past, even before /melody so /hatsoff.

The last few expansions have pretty much eliminated pulling from the game, so what does this mean for monks?

The average player knows monks only for pulling, not for dps, not for anything else.

What do you think happens when you remove the primary niche for a class? People forget about them and don't need them, don't want them and don't want to bring them anywhere, because all other classes fill out roles that monks do not. I won't bother listing what monks 'don't' have here, as it's not the point of my post.

The point is, pulling MUST come back to the game. The last few expansions have been painstakingly too easy compared to the expansions of years ago. In the process of trying to keep the population and making things easier, the monk class is dying and fading away. Without pulling as our primary role, we're avg dps at best, good or bad players alike, groupers or raiders alike.

Back in the days of PoP, LDON, DoN and many others, it used to be that if you didn't have a great puller you may as well log out and come back another day. Now anything can be pulled by anyone and 90% of our AA, Disciplines are for pulling. So without pulling we're completely left without anything to do.

I've been a grouper, and a raider and a grouper again, raider and now today a grouper and I see it every time I login, noone has a need for our class.

So the options are, bring back pulling, making it necessary for our class to be wanted so we have a use for these thousands of AA's we dumped in for pulling abilities or spent time camping disciplines to help pulling.... OR .... come up with some new role for our class by making us equivalent DPS of Rogue/Berserkers so we are actually a sought after class for groups/raids.

/rant off

Gorkeyah
02-28-2013, 01:09 AM
They can't put pulling back in the game that requires monks because other classes have pulling abilities, and I really wouldn't want many situations where only monks can pull if it were even possible to set it up that way. It might be nice for us, but it would suck for everyone else. It would be liking going back to when you had to have clerics and tanks, while now you can get away with mercs. (They can't make a pulling merc.)

Aggememnon
02-28-2013, 06:45 AM
Gork is right. The whole game has gone in a direction where there are systems in place to make it easier to form a group or solo. You used to need tank/clr and CC OR a puller, and the rest is dps. Now you can use merc/merc and [one of many] and the rest is [any].

You need to tip your hat to that really, since it couldn't be easier to group (or solo/molo). The issue is that a (real) tank is better than a merc tank, a (real) healer is better than a merc healer, and since a monk is not needed for pulling (other classes pull and/or cc, or pulling is just not needed due to mob spacing), that leaves monks as pure dps. But monk dps is less than that of many classes. So they can't go back, and there are no more roles to give. I asked it before, as a few suggested that dps fix is not enough long term and so we need a new role? Well I can't see one...

Ishtass
02-28-2013, 10:59 AM
Monks are the interim between real dps and dps mercs ;p

Ughbash
02-28-2013, 11:48 AM
Monks are the interim between real dps and dps mercs ;p

Have you parsed a dps merc recently?

Might be more accurate to say Mercs are the interim between real dps and Monks.

Nedrom
02-28-2013, 12:16 PM
Have you parsed a dps merc recently?

Might be more accurate to say Mercs are the interim between real dps and Monks.

Yup, I get that too. I've been told many times when I walk up to groups offering to replace their merc that I'm not enough dps.

Oh well..

Gorkeyah
02-28-2013, 12:16 PM
Have you parsed a dps merc recently?

Might be more accurate to say Mercs are the interim between real dps and Monks.

I tried to use a rogue dps merc at 95 while farming shards in FoS before rof launch, he seemed pretty weak, but I haven't tried at 100.

Aggememnon
02-28-2013, 12:29 PM
We had a caster dps on beach in Morrells, who was massive (grinding lvl to 95). Scarily it was such huge dps that he was always getting aggro and tanking - and tanking pretty well too....

There is also a more general problem for all melee - its often not possible to get into a grp with a caster focus. For example, mage/wiz/chanter grps using pet tanks (you just die if you go in and try melee). Also when duoing with a shaman, I found he was doing just as well without me when I took a bio lol. The times when you had to jump in and save a caster are gone. This guy would just VP park 3-4 mobs and root/rot another.

Ughbash
02-28-2013, 02:40 PM
Wizard mercs are sustaining around 15k dps, and they don't even take aggro from my monk let alone a real tank (this is on balanced not burn).

Kaliaila
03-01-2013, 05:04 AM
I rather like that post Ned. I was kind of iffy at first, but by the end I read it as saying,
"You guys (the Devs) removed pulling from the game; it was the only thing we are really known for since you have been making us mediocre DPS for over a decade now. So in order to truly fix the monk class there are two realistic options: Restore the need for Monk type pulling, which we both (Monks & Devs) know you will not do, or Increase our DPS to be at or fairly near Rogue/Zerker DPS."

As for the whole DPS merc thing, I am not at all surprised. I pretty much expected that from the start, especially at the group level. It was one of the reasons I wasn't all that keen on them being added. The Tank and Healer merc's filled a real need when they were added, but I can't remember a time ever that a group I was in broke because we couldn't find a DPS class. But way the only solution I can think of is that all DPS classes should be able to do the equivalent of auto attack and do the same dps as what a dps merc can do on balanced at the same level.

Gorkeyah
03-01-2013, 11:11 AM
I think the concept of dps mercs is fine. DPS classes use tanks/healer mercs and kill effectively, but what do priest type classes do? They can use a tank, but they'd probably like some dps also. They don't need a dps merc to kill, but killing might be pretty slow without one. It's only fair...

Caster dps mercs being better than player melee dps is probably a side effect of the relatively easy dps gains casters get every expansion. Relative to mob hp and player casters, they're fine. Melee is just a bit short compared to either player or merc casters.

Kelefane
03-01-2013, 05:11 PM
You guys need to just concentrate on becoming a top tier melee DPS class. Any class can pull these days. Shadowknights are awesome pullers for example now. Pulling utility has been farmed out too much for you guys to ask for content that needs pullers. You'd still be stuck without groups and whatnot because Shadowknights can pull just as good as Monks now for example and not to mention, when you have an SK in your group, you have two roles already filled (ie tank & puller). To top that off, other classes can pull awesome now too.

Monks only get welfare/pity invites to groups/raids these days. They bring jack and shit to either. I play a Monk myself, my alt is a Monk and I can play a Monk very very well and better than a lot of Monk mains . I'd probably retire him now though if I couldnt box him with the SK. Simply because nobody wants a damn Monk anymore. Your DPS is sub-par.....Wizard mercs are better sustained DPS, especially if they are grouped with an enchanter or druid......

And every thing else aside, the only time a Monk gets invited to a group for XP is if its done by a friend of the Monk. And the only time a Monk really gets raid invited is if said Monk has been a long time member of said guild. Who the fuck wants some unknown Monk to be in their group these days? I mean really. What guild wants to recruit Monks right now? The top 10 guilds serverwide are turning Monk apps down left and right. Just stack Rogues, who needs Monks?

^That shit has to change.

I think when people say "Pulling" and "Monk" in the same sentence, that its an antiquated way of thinking to be honest. Ive been playing since Kunark myself and the entire dynamic of this game has changed over the years.

So i'd go the DPS route. DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS. Forget about pulling because everyone and their dog can pull these days.

Just push for more DPS. You'll always have pulling tools, for little that does these days, but you guys are falling behind more and more every expansion on the DPS front. That is where the concentration needs to be at----> DPS.

I love the Monk class and I love my Monk. I have a ton of time invested in him. I just wish that the devs would give the class some love. It needs it bad.

Mris
03-04-2013, 02:39 PM
Some thoughts that amused me. Enjoy.



AA: Chi Burn - Focus your chi to raise your body's damage potential. While under the effects of this ability, your damage and accuracy are increased, and you will gain one extra attack per combat round. However, the strain on your body will also cause you to continually take damage.

Large damage% + accuracy modifier, a +damage mod, plus the extra hit per round that's been mentioned in several places (including AA chat, here, and the Sony forums), but you take 10k damage per tick. Effectively makes you unable to tank, but allows you to do good damage. 5 minute duration, 1 second reuse. (You could keep it up all the time, as long as you could stay alive, but you wouldn't want to. Just don't afk with it!)



AA: The Brightest Flame - The brightest flame burns quickest. This ability raises your melee ability to unmatched levels for a brief period. When this period ends, however, you will die.

30 second duration, 2,000% damage increase, but you take a DT when it fades. 10 minute reuse.



While those started out as jokes, the first one might actually be viable with a bit of thought... long duration makes it viable for sustained, the DoT would effectively nullify Mend, making us as squishy as anyone else, and you have the option to simply not use it if you need to tank or solo. It would be something along the lines of 'stances'. (Also, I like the name 'The Brightest Flame'.)

Obiziana
03-04-2013, 05:08 PM
The Brightest Flame might be a joke but, wow, could you imagine what we could pull off in 30 seconds? I think 2,000% mod would be a bit beyond something they would seriously consider due to the sheer carnage we could create in that time. I'm visualizing whirlwind trains in end game zones... sure we'll die but imagine the potential for exp/AA in the mean time.

rapitiss
03-05-2013, 03:38 AM
Just push for more DPS. You'll always have pulling tools, for little that does these days, but you guys are falling behind more and more every expansion on the DPS front. That is where the concentration needs to be at----> DPS.


Pretty sure we've been saying that for years now and the answer from the dev's have been monks are fine where they are.

Gorkeyah
03-05-2013, 07:25 PM
I noticed on some of the gear it says good for monks and rangers. I'm not sure what it means that we're grouped with them.

Maereax
03-05-2013, 08:29 PM
I noticed on some of the gear it says good for monks and rangers. I'm not sure what it means that we're grouped with them.

Probably NOT that we're going to start topping parses, adding adps, getting tons of utility and being able to /autofire AA's all day ere day. Probably.

Mris
03-05-2013, 11:36 PM
I noticed on some of the gear it says good for monks and rangers. I'm not sure what it means that we're grouped with them.

It mean nothing. For many years there were pieces of equipment with monk/ranger/rogue/zerk on them, and the monk/ranger pieces would have had those classes if they weren't all/all. In Beta, the equipment wasn't yet named early on, and had placeholder names like mnk/rng ear group t1. Gives a bit of insight into the item making process, eh? (As at that time they had no (known to the players) intent to add the class tags.)

In the end, all it really means is that the devs feel that the stats benefiting those classes most are similar. If that's true or not is less obvious.

Gorkeyah
03-06-2013, 12:30 AM
I was thinking it might fit in with the 'monks are lite tanks' thing. It was just something I noticed. There's items with zerker on them, and rogue, and beastlord. Monks are grouped with ranger. heh

Personally I like some of the stuff that's 'good for warriors'. heh

Mris
03-06-2013, 02:48 AM
Personally I like some of the stuff that's 'good for warriors'. heh

It still ticks me off that 'everyone can use everything' but monks still can't use the masks with Hate mods.

And yeah, pretty much I expect I'll end up going for the tank stuff. (Except the mask, apparently.)

Maereax
03-06-2013, 11:59 AM
I would probably stop bitching about my DPS if I could wear a hate focus mask. For like a week. Probably.

Ughbash
03-06-2013, 12:15 PM
Funny that a Warrior can use a Mage/Beast/Necro Ear.... but a Mage/Beast/Necro can not use the tank face.

Yeah, I want the tank face too.

Maereax
03-06-2013, 12:39 PM
I went back and searched every worn agro focus in the game for something we could use (I think this was the same day I made the list of all the OH items in the game - I was bored)

... and there's none.

ronin616
04-05-2013, 10:57 AM
Only thing I can think of would be:
Solo/group gains 5 pct on accumulated values (xp, points, pp and stuff) with max of 5 pct.
Brings bonus to groups and raid.

Monk when into the shitter like 10 lvls ago already.

Gorkeyah
04-05-2013, 01:25 PM
I tried to use a rogue dps merc at 95 while farming shards in FoS before rof launch, he seemed pretty weak, but I haven't tried at 100.

fwiw, I was using one the other day (me/cleric merc, shaman box/rogue merc) and the rogue merc did about the same dps as I did on balance, but I was always ahead because the rogue waited a bit to start attacking. This was in xorb zone.

Ughbash
04-05-2013, 01:33 PM
fwiw, I was using one the other day (me/cleric merc, shaman box/rogue merc) and the rogue merc did about the same dps as I did on balance, but I was always ahead because the rogue waited a bit to start attacking. This was in xorb zone.

FWIW, I have issues wiht a rouge merc being able to be the same DPS as a raid geared monk with max AA.

Basically all your time aaing and gearing up can be repalced by 100 plat every 15 min by a newbie who was pleveled to 100.

A Wizard merc may have done more then the rogue and with the setup you mentioned you did extra dps by riposte since you were tanking. With someone else tankngi the rogue would have beaten you. Now no, you are not the best geared monk out there, but you still have modern raid gear, you should be a NOTICEABLE DIFFERENCE ABOVE a merc, not a parseable difference that only shows up because you attacked first.

Trazz
04-05-2013, 01:38 PM
Rolled a monk in WoW... 6 hours of play time, lvl 50. Fun class!

Actually wanting to play WoW more than EQ as my character gets stronger. Tired of getting on and sitting forever while LFG in EQ.

Obiziana
04-05-2013, 01:49 PM
FWIW - I don't think a rogue merc should out DPS a group geared monk with 2000 AA. I don't see how they can justify mercs being even close to comparable to real live players.

Gorkeyah
04-05-2013, 02:18 PM
We'll probably be a better match for them when the new expansion comes out. ;)

Imuu
04-05-2013, 02:25 PM
FWIW - I don't think a rogue merc should out DPS a group geared monk with 2000 AA. I don't see how they can justify mercs being even close to comparable to real live players.

I dunno about that, 2k is pretty low for the playerbase now adays, thats why the aa soft cap thing was raised to 4k.

Zzlaarr
04-05-2013, 04:24 PM
Just wait till after SoF goes live.
If you are not happy then you can moan again.

Imuu
04-05-2013, 04:32 PM
Just wait till after SoF goes live.
If you are not happy then you can moan again.

Agreed

Zarie
04-06-2013, 03:18 PM
Your post made me so sad:(

Zarie
Created on Rodcet Nife , merged with Quellious and now on Povar.

Zzlaarr
04-06-2013, 11:15 PM
Your post made me so sad:(

Zarie
Created on Rodcet Nife , merged with Quellious and now on Povar.
/comfort :wink: