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Nedrom
09-26-2012, 12:46 AM
Can someone please explain vitality to me and how it works?

I read this post which basically says to never run on sharing as its very broken. Is this true?

I'm in a fellowship with mostly folks higher level than me. I'm not sure I get the point of the sharing bit.

Hoping someone could simplify it for me as I've not used a fellowship before.

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=186568#2808267

Mris
09-26-2012, 03:37 AM
In theory...

And that's where my post goes wrong, lol.

The idea is that anyone who is opted in for sharing shares their exp with everyone else who is, in the same fellowship. Previously, this would just go straight to the recipients exp when they logged in, but that was apparently exploitable and boring, so they gave us VITALITY. Now the concept is, each character has a pool that the shared experience goes into rather than going directly to your character. When you get experience from killing a mob, you tap into that pool and get vitality exp tacked on to the mob exp. Also, these pools are capped, and when a characters pool is full, sharing is turned off for them. (Exp and AA pools are separated, don't ask me how it decides where the exp goes.)

Example:

Players A, B, and C are opted in.

Player A kills 100 mobs. For easy math purposes, I'm gonna assign them an exp value. Lets say, 300 each. Now, each kill gets split. 1/3 goes to player A. 1/3 goes to player B's pool. Same for player C.

So now players B and C have 100 x 100 exp in their pools, 10000. Player B goes out and starts killing. Lets keep it simple and say they are also killing for 300 exp a kill. They have sharing turned OFF while they're doing this. (This was the broken thing that got it nerfed, BTW. People leveling their alts like this. I'll admit, I'm guilty. You could get up to 30AA, and lose the rest, or just PL the ever living shit out of a lower level character.)

Player B kills a mob for 300 exp. When they get the experience, they tap into their vitality pool, and pull out 1500 bonus exp. (IIRC, the modifier is x5. Could be wrong, it's been more than an year since I used this.) This continues until the vitality pool is empty, then everything goes back to normal.

Player C, however, isn't playing much. They keep leeching that vitality and never using any. The amount of vitality they can have stored is based on their level, and in some situations, how much exp they are into a level. (This is relevant only if they would hit the level cap using vitality.) There's a post about the restriction somewhere, but I'm not looking for it tonight. AAs have their own cap equation.

Final note. If there's a level difference, the amount of vitality you get is modified the same as if you were grouped together. So lower level, smaller piece of the pie. And, iirc, the same rules apply about not getting exp at all. So no more leveling your level 10 with your level 90.

Hope this helps. (Hope it's all still accurate, too!)

Nedrom
09-26-2012, 09:14 AM
Hmmm... couple questions then...

If you toggle sharing on and off do you lose your vitality?
If the rest of my fellowship is much higher level and I want to level as fast as possible, then I should turn on sharing when I log out and turn it off when I'm actually xp'ing? But I guess this would be like leaching from the other members without sharing any back, right?

Tayken Mytime
09-26-2012, 06:09 PM
Hmmm... couple questions then...

If you toggle sharing on and off do you lose your vitality?
If the rest of my fellowship is much higher level and I want to level as fast as possible, then I should turn on sharing when I log out and turn it off when I'm actually xp'ing? But I guess this would be like leaching from the other members without sharing any back, right?

thats the million dollar question.

from my experience, channeling the vitality to an offline player is the best way. it will bank up to 10 lvls in the vitality bar, and up to 50 aa's *with voa* the standard group exp sharing applies. 1.5 or min lvl of 65 to get exp with a lvl 95.

someone in guild had a max war, max cleric, and a rogue bot. the rogue was getting an aa more than me, same lvl, and around the same aa count.

another guildy experimented with this feature and found that it doesnt matter if the aa exp gets depleted with 100 % into lvl, it empties into the lvl.

i would recommend turning the shared exp off when you are running regular exp, because you will deplete your vitality, it takes the 20% and dumps it back into the shared pool.

if you reach 100% into the lvl, you will no longer contribute to the vitality pool, it marks that person with "Capped" in the window. Dieing and corpse rotting is the only option to dump vitality back into that pool.

good luck.

ps.

i run a good lesson burn when exping alts or returning friends in the fellowship.

Eico

rapitiss
10-02-2012, 10:22 PM
Taken's explanation fits what I have seen happen.

When you get ready to log make sure you turn sharing on so you leach from others.

When you log back in, turn off sharing so you burn the stored vitality pool.


I played with sharing and fellowships with a crew of six. Came back after 6 month break from the game and only had my monk. For some reason I couldn't get any xp. Grinding an hour in beza was netting like 1-2% xp.

Turns out I had left the xp sharing on and was filling up all the other characters vitality pools.

Nedrom
10-03-2012, 01:49 PM
Thanks for the explanation guys! I appreciate it.

It's too bad that the developers didn't make it easier to understand. It's far too complicated for what it actually does.

Look at WoW as an example, your XP bar turns blue if you have logged out for a long time and you get an xp bonus for a short time, then returns to purple for normal XP. Something like this is much easier to understand.

sensei savager
10-03-2012, 02:43 PM
There is no purple in EQ so it wouldn't work ;)

Mris
10-03-2012, 09:36 PM
There is no purple in EQ so it wouldn't work ;)

I take it you've never seen a ranger tank?

Kaliaila
10-04-2012, 12:15 AM
If the above are correct explanations of how it works, then I don't believe that it is working exactly how the Dev's intend. I remember them saying that you were only supposed to be able to get the bonus XP from the vitality you have built up if you have Sharing ON.

Now originally the shared XP was funneled to the inactive members automatically; when they would log in Insta-ding Level 90 when having logged off as level 60 kind of thing. (That is an extreme example.)

They changed it to the current system where the you now have a pool of XP that is the same size as what you would have gained before, but instead now you only get small chunks of the XP as "bonus" xp with each kill, so that after X number of kills your pool is exhausted. You don't have to turn off sharing to use your Vitality; it is automatically used when you kill (apparently regardless of if sharing is on or off; I don't think this is supposed to be the case). Now if everyone in your fellowship that has sharing turned on is playing at the same time in the same group your vitality really shouldn't go down as it is being refilled at the same rate that it is being expended. If you have sharing turned off you are no longer receiving any vitality refills from the others sharing in your fellowship (so you will get all of the bonuses now without contributing any XP to those others in the group who are not playing). So if your fellowship only ever groups together and always the same time and no other times, then fellowship sharing doesn't really do anything worthwhile, as the pool will fill and empty at the same rate. If you don't all play the same amount of time or together, then using the method outlined by the others is a way to reap all of the benefits of the fellowship sharing system but none of the drawbacks. Of note though, if everyone did it this way then no one would ever have any vitality built up because everyone would have sharing off while killing mobs (which is the only way that vitality pools are grown or exhausted). The exception would be the fellowships with people who are max level/AA with XP to burn that leave sharing on so the XP doesn't go to waste.

As the others hinted at and some stated, the reason for having separate vitality for both XP and AAs is so that you don't end up having a pool with more than you can actually use. And with anything, when AAxp is cap maxed it goes into regular xp.

People have asked for ways to make the fellowship vitality stuff one way (only in for some only out for others) but that has not got much response from the Dev's.

I think most people who call it broken, either don't like how they changed it or don't understand how it actually is intended to work. I am still questionable on the being able to turn it off and still make use of the vitality.

Here is an example of how I think it is intended to work:

1. Group of 6 players play and all 6 are in a fellowship together and always group together and only together and always have sharing on. They level just as fast as other people killing at the same rate as them, and their vitality never goes up.

2. Group member A has a family vacation and is gone for a week while the other 5 continue playing using a merc or other player to fill in and all 6 of them leave sharing on. The 5 now level slightly slower than the groups killing at the same rate as them, but their vitality does not noticeably increase at all.

3. Group member A returns from his trip to find Vitality pool built up; the group returns to it's norm of only grouping together and only playing together with all of them leaving sharing on. Now the 5 that kept playing while Group member A was gone are once again leveling at the same rate as those who are killing at the same rate as their group; and again their vitality levels do not noticeably change. Group member A however is actually leveling faster than the rest of the group, and over time his vitality level is noticeably dropping.

4. At the point when Group Member A's XP gain has caught him back up to where the rest of the group is (which should coincide with his Vitality running out or being equal to the other group members); now all group members are once again leveling at the same rate and they are all still leveling at the same rate as other groups killing at the same rate as them.

All this is after a full day of work on 3ish hours of sleep so the start of it may be a bit wandering, but the numbered part I think is pretty solid.

Mris
10-04-2012, 01:15 AM
I think you're right (in theory) for the most part. But a few items of note:

I'm pretty sure vitality is meant to be used regardless of sharing being on or off. It's just not meant to be gained with sharing turned off.

A group who always groups together as you stated is actually at a slight disadvantage with sharing on. Because vitality actually updates after the kill, you won't use vitality given to you from one kill, on that kill. So, you're funneling exp into the vitality pools, and you can't completely empty it w/o turning sharing off. (Unless you go kill on your own, in which case, your vitality can empty, but everyone else gets more into the pool.) This is compounded by the fact that, iirc, vitality updates every 15 minutes, so even the next kill might not drain the vitality from the previous kill. It would be more of a situation with slow exp for a while, followed by a spike in exp (every 15 minutes), followed by a period of slow exp.

So while it's not a great big issue, it does change things enough that you shouldn't bother with it unless you are, in fact, catching someone up. (New/returning player, been on vacation, etc.)

Alternatively, it's a nice thing to have if you have players with highly different play times. (Not when, but how long.) Say you have players A, B, and C. A plays a lot, goes off and solos, grinds when others aren't on. B plays regularly, but doesn't really like to play alone, so most of their exp is gotten when A or C are on. C enjoys EQ, but doesn't have much free time, so they fall behind a lot, but that low play time happens to be when A and B are usually on anyway.

Normally, these players would have vastly different exp. But, if they all keep sharing on, all the time, they'll stay a lot closer together, allowing C to stay closer to A and B.

That's assuming they all started about equal anyway. Now say A has been at this a good long time, and B is just starting out, eh? A can turn off sharing when they log off, and turn it back on when they head out to grind solo, or in non-fellowship groups. Maybe not the *intended* use for this system, but when have EQ players ever stuck to a tools intended use?

Ughbash
10-04-2012, 07:23 AM
Fellowship is supposed to be Experiene Neutral. That means that if someone in fellowship looses 500 xp other people in fellowship gain 500 xp.

This does not work. Fellowship xp is lost in the trasfer rate. Take a person who ahs been offline and has maxed out his Fellowship AA. He should have 50 AA in fellowship experience available. Now lets say he goes and runs a lesson where he would usuallly pick up 15 AA. By the time his fellowship vitaltiy is done he will ahve gained 50 AA. This means he did not get the xp for the kills but got fellowship xp instead.

The only time Fellowship XP really works is if one member sharing is maxxed out. Even then it LOOKS like the person receiving it does not get full benefit. I THINK it gives either the XP for the kill or the Vitatlity XP.

I did robot with my alt warrior who started at capped. When his vitality was finsihed he had 50 AA which seems to mean he got 0 for the actual kills in robot. Without looking at the code or the actual raw numbers I can't tell you how it works for sure, but comparing it to how it worked before, we are not getting the same xp on AA we are getting less.

Nedrom
10-04-2012, 10:34 AM
How can I see how much vitality I have? I use sars UI and I also tried default but don't see anything.

Gorkeyah
10-04-2012, 10:49 AM
It's a little blue line that runs along the regular exp bars for level and AA.