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View Full Version : Hdex nerf coming



Kelefane
07-11-2012, 07:04 PM
How will this hurt Monks?

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?topic_id=187611
*** Miscellaneous ***

- Corrected a login issue that would not allow players to login to the test server.
- Fixed an issue that would occassionally cause the server to forget your gold status.
- Changed the "Return Home" time to 18 minutes since the last time you logged in. Previously you had to wait 6 hours to use this button. Now it's set to the same time as Origin without any use of the hastened AA's.
- Fixed bug that was causing the certain plate types to appear as chain. They should now correctly appear as plate.
- Fixed some display problems on armor with Velious textures.
- Heroic Dexterity will no longer incorrectly effect certain damage types.

*** Previously Updated ***

- Corrected a broken particle that was causing blue effects to appear over players in auras, causing performance issues.
- Corrected the appearance of the Animated Armor mercenaries.

- The EverQuest Team

Monks better get on test and parse this before it goes live. If its a big hit to your DPS, i'd gripe about it until blue in the face.

Nedrom
07-11-2012, 07:06 PM
Monks swing more than any other class in game, so this will be quite substantial loss to dps.

Just look at any parse, look at total hits when you compare all classes, this will affect monks the most for dps loss.

Surprised mortals?!?!!

Kelefane
07-12-2012, 12:36 AM
You guys need to parse on test and let the devs know how negative this change will be to you.

Nedrom
07-12-2012, 09:25 AM
There is some good info here already on it, and parses Kajok ran and a link to some parses Brogett posted:

http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/showthread.php?t=35725&highlight=hdex+parse

Long story short:


Conclusion
1. Approx 150 heroic dex accounts for 1% crit rate. (It's hard to parse this to high accuracy, but the difference between primary and secondary rates in both parses was within 0.1%.) There is no evidence in whether this is quantised by dex, dex/10 or dex/25.

2. Gained approx 2 procs/min, but I didn't check yet which was mainhand and which was offhand. Likely this comes through dex increases too.

3. No adjustment on accuracy. The tool tip for dex claims that it improves chance to hit, but maybe that's only true at very low levels. Clearly heroics don't help.

4. Min hits all move by 16, consistent with +Hstr/10 only applying here.
Max non-crits both move by by 32, consistent with +Hstr/10 and +Hdex/10 applying.
Max crits move both move by 65, consistent with +Hstr/10 and crit_mul*Hdex/10 (approx 3).

Monks hit about 11 times per second if not more when speedfocus is running at full bard overhaste and about half that without speedfocus.

So, its quite substantial.

Nedrom
07-12-2012, 09:26 AM
PS: isn't it funny that this is being nerf'd just a month after Brogett posted the parses? hmm...

tanecho
07-12-2012, 05:39 PM
I'm the only monk on a lot of raids. Last boss parse I looked at, I had 1900 hits. Second was a rogue at 1150. This will affect us far more than any other class. The sky won't fall down, but we're going to lose a little bit of ground when we really didn't need to.

I wish they'd just revamp stats all together. Make stats matter, it gives you more toggles for balance. Spell damage needs to be more prevalent for casters and affect them equally. Heroic strength should be 2/1 or even 1/1 stat/dmg instead of the existing 10 to 1. Dexterity even from a roleplaying standpoint made sense increasing non-minimum damage hits.

There shouldn't only be 10 items I care about per expansion. Everything else is just AC/hp fluff.

Vothsisx
07-12-2012, 11:24 PM
I'm the only monk on a lot of raids. Last boss parse I looked at, I had 1900 hits. Second was a rogue at 1150. This will affect us far more than any other class. The sky won't fall down, but we're going to lose a little bit of ground when we really didn't need to.

I wish they'd just revamp stats all together. Make stats matter, it gives you more toggles for balance. Spell damage needs to be more prevalent for casters and affect them equally. Heroic strength should be 2/1 or even 1/1 stat/dmg instead of the existing 10 to 1. Dexterity even from a roleplaying standpoint made sense increasing non-minimum damage hits.

There shouldn't only be 10 items I care about per expansion. Everything else is just AC/hp fluff.

Begone with your logical formulas and theories! Everything must be calculated in such a complex and abstract way your head will explode if you ever make sense of it.

Aggememnon
07-13-2012, 08:24 AM
PS: isn't it funny that this is being nerf'd just a month after Brogett posted the parses? hmm...

Ned - those parses from Brog are dated almost 2 years ago - unless you are talking about something different?

I agree this would affect monks more, but surely we are talking 3-400 dps at most? This nerfs all melee. I would expect the devs would change +str to compensate.

To be honest whats more annoying is that they pick this bug to fix when there are much bigger issues. Monk dps (burn esp) is dropping well behind, sustained is suddenly lack lustre, and meanwhile casters/hybrids are going through the roof in utility/ability. AND we have noone on CRT. While I don't think CRT has as much power as you seem to think, I do think we should have someone there to be heard. I think thats a big failing on SoE's part...

Nedrom
07-13-2012, 11:12 AM
Ah you're right, I was looking at month only!

Imuu
07-13-2012, 11:36 AM
i know me and savager applied when they were taking new ppl in to crt team but i assume sav didnt get it either. dunno of any other monks that tried.

Nedrom
07-13-2012, 11:41 AM
i know me and savager applied when they were taking new ppl in to crt team but i assume sav didnt get it either. dunno of any other monks that tried.

CRT is a joke, simply put.

The ability for monks to directly interface with Devs left with Rashere, Zajeer and Prathun. That's when I lost complete interest.

Aggememnon
07-13-2012, 11:48 AM
Who is the dev in charge of CRT? And in charge of 'balance' (cos the latter needs a stern talking to). Maybe its time to write to them directly...

Nedrom
07-13-2012, 11:51 AM
surely we are talking 3-400 dps at most? This nerfs all melee

In order to figure out how much DPS lost, it will have to be parsed. If someone want's to do it. There is no way to predict the DPS lost based on the rogue information posted by Brogett simply because both classes are very different.

Yes, it nerf's all melee, however, monks rely on physical attacks more than any other class as we hit more than any other class.

Just an example here as I have not parsed it:

lets say +100 hdex gives us +10 damage for every punch, kick or strike.

60 minute parse, we hit 2000 punches, 500 kicks and 250 strikes

That accounts for 27500 total damage, which is 458 DPS.

300 minute parse, we hit 10000 punches, 2500 kicks and 1250 strikes

That accounts for 137500 total damage.

From what I remember, rogues and berserkers usually have about 1/2 of our total attacks, so for them it would be half the dps lost, no big deal to them, obviously.

Problem is, for monks, this is our bread and butter.

Think of it like losing your +10 damage aug in your primary weapon, it would equate to the same DPS lost there (except the augs don't work on kicks and strikes). Actual parsing is needed though.

The data above also doesn't include the bonus from crit mods, so we're talking about more than 458 dps here, it grows when you figure out and calculate crit damage on all our attacks and specials.

Ughbash
07-13-2012, 12:15 PM
Think of it like losing your +10 damage aug in your primary weapon, it would equate to the same DPS lost there (except the augs don't work on kicks and strikes). Actual parsing is needed though.


And augs increase base damage so not the same thing at all.

Yes it is going to be bad, yes it will be worse for monks then anythign else, No your analogy is not accurate.

Nedrom
07-13-2012, 12:20 PM
I completely disagree.

Aggememnon
07-13-2012, 12:47 PM
I think the main issue is that monk dps is suffering as it is. This change will make sustained even worse. Not 'massively', but still worse, particularly for monks.

I think there is a larger issue though, that our dps is below par for a melee dps-class (sustained and burn), with no other function. I would argue that we should be much more on a par with zerk/rog dps, and I don't actually care how they make that happen....ie. I'd rather see a battle to increase all our dps rather than try and get back 500 sustained dps or 700dps. Its just still not enough.

Nedrom
07-13-2012, 12:51 PM
Who is the dev in charge of CRT? And in charge of 'balance' (cos the latter needs a stern talking to). Maybe its time to write to them directly...

Have you ever asked yourself why no monk has been part of CRT since inception?

Before you ask, no, I never have and never will seek membership. I'm just saying, they have no interest in adding members of a dying class.

Kajok
07-13-2012, 02:17 PM
Trying to recall the parse I did; the findings were somethign like 10hdex = .01% addition to the max crit dmg. Approx. 3dmg per 10dex to the max crit score. Add it up with your Hdex amount and that's going to go away.

Bodhidharma
07-13-2012, 04:25 PM
What ever happened to the "A Monk's role is to be the best DPS from any angle" dev line? /ducks

Vothsisx
07-13-2012, 04:37 PM
CRT is a joke, simply put.

The ability for monks to directly interface with Devs left with Rashere, Zajeer and Prathun. That's when I lost complete interest.

I call BS. It gets you one-on-one time to suck a dev's dick and get instant nukes.

Kaliaila
07-15-2012, 03:23 AM
At the inception of the CRT, we as a class intentionally boycotted it; for the reasons Ned outlined. The previous program was minimally worth while at best. The current program they explicitly said and still say that the members are not intended to be class representatives or anything like that. They just represent the community as a whole.

Not that they can really do anything that matters. In fact more times than not the forums by themselves do a better job of dealing with most of the issue with or without them.

Ughbash
07-15-2012, 10:09 AM
Well we did have a monk in the very first incarnation. Think it was Vanriza or something like that?

Non raiding monk but he tried to help. Got a fair amount of grief because he was not known to the MB community.

Nedrom
07-15-2012, 10:57 AM
Well we did have a monk in the very first incarnation. Think it was Vanriza or something like that?

Non raiding monk but he tried to help. Got a fair amount of grief because he was not known to the MB community.

Vicero used to be class leader, a very long time ago, not the same thing at all. That kid wasn't even max level nor cared to be, it was pretty sad representation, I'd rather have a ranger represent us.

Just search this board for 'Vicero' and you'll see why he got grief. Very inactive and uninterested in helping us out. This was back in 2005 though.

He also lost the position due to being inactive.

Ughbash
07-15-2012, 10:09 PM
Vicero used to be class leader, a very long time ago, not the same thing at all. That kid wasn't even max level nor cared to be, it was pretty sad representation, I'd rather have a ranger represent us.

Just search this board for 'Vicero' and you'll see why he got grief. Very inactive and uninterested in helping us out. This was back in 2005 though.

He also lost the position due to being inactive.

He got a lot of grief, but better then having a ranger represent us, at least he was not actively trying ot nerf us. Remembered it started with a V.