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Ancaglon
01-07-2009, 07:29 AM
There was a discussion last night on one of the x-server monk channels about shroud levelling of AAs -- someone (my brain now refuses to tell me who, and I don't have the logs handy) was saying that it was basically possible to get 500 AA in a day without using hacks. Can someone explain how the heck this works? For a start, I thought there was still a limit of 30 AAs saved.

EDIT: PM me if you don't wanna post publicly...

Maereax
01-07-2009, 08:27 AM
You might have better luck asking for PM's on that, instead of asking for a way to mass PL on an open message board, btw =P

Ughbash
01-07-2009, 08:39 AM
Rangers can Plevel someone about an AA a minute (that may be under lesson) in instances. Headshot rocks. So basically shroud down to 70 have a couple mercs to keep the ranger up and soak in XP.

I know of one ranger who made 2k AA for his alts in two weeks.

I do NOT know if the AA at this rate is due to alts having lower XP or not so it MAY only be an AA every 3 min or so (20 an hour) if you have high AA.

Did not get more details as I figure AA will come in time and by end of year will be maxxed anyways.

Ancaglon
01-07-2009, 08:52 AM
"only" 20 AA an hour :D I think the only time I made 20 AA in an hour was when there was a double XP period during an Anniversary. :)

PS: Rangers -- while I was camping the Attendant and Advisor in AG, there was a Ranger camping the Quartermaster, with just a merc healer. She told me she just plowed her way there using BoA and was basically killing 4-5 mobs at once constantly -- and this wasn't a ranger from one of the top end guilds either, who I'd expect to be able to do insane things. Are we really that far behind em at equivalent gear levels?

Aggememnon
01-07-2009, 10:09 AM
that really annoys the hell out of me. I hope they can identify people using these exploits and roll em back

Daesean
01-07-2009, 10:17 AM
exactly why are you calling that an exploit? Those game mechanics are legit, just folks are able to figure out a combination that works well.

I played for years at max aa.. its not fun to keep clicking disposable AA to avoid getting spammed with the "at the limit" message.

Ughbash
01-07-2009, 10:36 AM
"only" 20 AA an hour :D I think the only time I made 20 AA in an hour was when there was a double XP period during an Anniversary. :)

PS: Rangers -- while I was camping the Attendant and Advisor in AG, there was a Ranger camping the Quartermaster, with just a merc healer. She told me she just plowed her way there using BoA and was basically killing 4-5 mobs at once constantly -- and this wasn't a ranger from one of the top end guilds either, who I'd expect to be able to do insane things. Are we really that far behind em at equivalent gear levels?


Yes we are that far behind them, and no what they do is not an exploit.

Ancaglon
01-07-2009, 10:56 AM
It may not be an exploit in the sense of a hack, but it sure as hell can't be intended that a single hybrid class can gain XP, AA or otherwise, quite that fast; from the looks of the spell they can kill up to 8 mobs as easily as 1, just as long as they can stay upright long enough. Now I can handle being battered by 3-4 FC giants at once with merc healer on reactive, but I pretty much have to kill them one by one, with only minor damage being done to the one I'm not hitting from DS and ripostes -- but a ranger with similar gear could pull and kill those in a quarter of the time (or probably more mobs than that, since they have a higher softcap, same post-cap ratio, and chain AC rather than leather).

Vanayr
01-07-2009, 12:03 PM
that really annoys the hell out of me. I hope they can identify people using these exploits and roll em back

Not quite sure how it's an exploit at all. It's how plvl has been done for years.

If you consider slapping a DS on someone an exploit, then so be it. I'm sure as hell not going to apologize for it... lol

I agree though that the line between "inventive" and "exploit" is a fine one, but no one is causing mobs not to path, or not allowing them to attack their target etc. so trying to say this is an "exploit" is off the mark.

If you think back to Kunark when people used to fear mobs into the walls? Ya, that's an exploit since you were using the zone geometry to force a mob into a position where it could not defend itself or escape. Same thing as when (forgot the guild name) used the geometry of ST to avoid the AE's of the warders in Velious. This? No one is making a mob do anything except beat the hell out of who it hates. Nothing is being done to change a mobs behavior or change how it interacts with it's targets.

I'm sure SOE never imagined we would take it to the extreme level that some of us have though. Is that an "exploit" however? I don't think so. It's the mechanic of the spells. If they don't want them used that way, change how DS works. It's worked the same way for 11 years, but that's another issue.

Obviously I've seen a benefit from it, so that may color my opinion just a bit! End of the day though, no one is pulling some garbage where a mob can't summon you etc, it's simply using DS the way it's designed.

Ancaglon
01-07-2009, 12:25 PM
Um? What's damage shields got to do with this? Porcupining worked well with druids for PLing up to the 50s or so, but mobs after that have too many HP just to die to Damage Shields...

Trukoflanys
01-07-2009, 05:18 PM
When power leveling the druid casts Ds on himself not on the person he is power leveling.

The fastest way to get AA's when they were first put into the game is still the fastest way to get AA's today.

Ancaglon
01-08-2009, 02:27 AM
Hmm.

Karm Hundredfists
01-08-2009, 02:42 AM
You're talking about two different things.

One is talking about taking a level 85 toon and shrouding him to level 5 with a real level 5 toon then killing everything for a lot of aaxp (preferably with another high level PLing).

The other is getting a druid to DS/tank while a level 51/55/59/65 whatever gets aa.

Ughbash
01-08-2009, 08:09 AM
Druid Porcupining is a great leveling tool, and MAY be even faster for AA if you are going to work at it. This means pullign 30 to 100 mobs, (SK is ideal) and camping the Plevelee after each pull.

The shroud leveling going on is currently shroud to 70 hit an instance with a ranger and enough to keep him up and letting him wipe the instance with headshots.

Two distinctly seprate ways of plevleing.

Gorkeyah
01-08-2009, 09:13 AM
Being ignorant of other classes, I don't understand the signficance of being lvl70 and the headshot thing. Is there an advantage to shrouding down to lvl70 rather than just being lvl70? How does headshot work?

Ancaglon
01-08-2009, 09:18 AM
I think I understand that.

There's a maximum of a 15 level difference for instances, and headshot is a chance to kill outright with archery on a humanoid below a certain level - 64 max? which apparently also works with the 8 "arrows" fired with Barrage of Arrows (by a level 84+ ranger). So vast numbers of just-light-blue-to-the-level-70-shroud mobs die astoundingly quickly, and since the mobs are probably green to the level 85 ranger, the shrouded person gets the vast majority of the XP.

Does that make sense?

Gorkeyah
01-08-2009, 10:15 AM
I see, so the ranger doesn't shroud down, just the person being power leveled?

Gorkeyah
01-08-2009, 10:18 AM
On the other hand, I thought you couldn't power level AA's anyway. In other words, the AA's are earned based on the highest lvl person in group.

Vanayr
01-08-2009, 11:16 AM
So here is my rhetorical question.

Now that you are pondering the mechanic of a DS and various ways to plvl a toon, are you exploiting?

My answer is no, but, it's open to debate I guess as this post proves.

The real issue to me is, when you need at least 2k AA's to even be relevant, what else are you going to do but look for the fastest way possible to obtain them?

Who here can honestly say "Wow, i just love to grind AA's!"?

I play EQ to raid, nothing else. All the quests, the gear, the flags, I don't care. The only reason to obtain it, is to progress forward. Maybe that's a bad way to look at it, but after 10 years, it's what keeps me playing. Grinding another 1000 useless AA's does not make me "happy" in any way shape or form.

Does that make me an asshole for looking for the fastest most efficient way possible to AA? Maybe, but after 3,609 AA's, I think I've given SOE about all the grind time I'm willing to spare.

Ancaglon
01-08-2009, 11:38 AM
The real issue to me is, when you need at least 2k AA's to even be relevant, what else are you going to do but look for the fastest way possible to obtain them?

Excuse me? That's so wrong. You may need 2k AA's to apply to a top 5 raiding guild, but that doesn't apply to the VAST majority of EQ players.

kemo
01-08-2009, 11:45 AM
The Eq player today gave up long ago on what a RPG is about. "Its the journey not the destination that matters." So they will do what they can to get what ever they need done the fastest and learn nothing from it. Welcome to Everquest

Vanayr
01-08-2009, 12:17 PM
I covered that part :wink:

I play EQ to raid, nothing else. All the quests, the gear, the flags, I don't care. The only reason to obtain it, is to progress forward. Maybe that's a bad way to look at it, but after 10 years, it's what keeps me playing. Grinding another 1000 useless AA's does not make me "happy" in any way shape or form.

And Kemo, with all due respect, I've been playing EQ since 99, so when you speak of my ability to learn from whatever grind SOE/Verant/989 has decided to put out, I've figured it out.

If you want to talk about EQ, bring back EQ/Kunark/Velious. The quests mattered, the lore was amazing, the zones were actually fun, and to raid end game, all you needed was the balls to try, nothing else.

Don't complain about players deciding that the journey sucks, talk to the dev team who seems to build endless grind loops. It's like an endless flagging session for Emp, and it's been that way for years.

What do you propose we are supposed to learn from this journey?

Gorkeyah
01-08-2009, 12:35 PM
Interesting... Your goals are around raiding and raid gear upgrades, so you see AA's a just a means to that end and are therefore ok with shortcutting that part a bit.

For me, however, raid gear isn't a realistic target for me, so I mostly want to level and get AA's, with gear upgrades a means to speed that up. And I shortcut the gear upgrade process because I can often buy stuff that's an upgrade for me. :)

Vanayr
01-08-2009, 12:41 PM
Gorkeyah, your right, like I said, it's all about our assumptions.

Ancaglon, you are correct.

Like I said, I play EQ to raid, the group content does nothing for me anymore :frown:

Vanayr
01-15-2009, 01:29 PM
Just as a side note, I would add that the "fix" for this is on test.

AA points banked are now limited to 30 even when you are shrouded.

So the method of EXP is not the problem it seems, it's just that you don't have to have a wizard with secondary bind pop you back to PoK to spend your points.

Kaliaila
01-19-2009, 12:36 PM
News flash Vanayr they have always been limited to 30, unless you get them from a quest or via a refund. IE you can only xp up to 30 banked AAs, but you can have more than 30 AAs banked.

Also while shrouded you don't actually gain any xp, you only get the XP when you remove the shroud. Depending on How that xp is awarded to you at that point would decide whether you would be able to get more than 30 AAs from it.

Also I am pretty sure that the Shroud thing would also get around the whole AAxp issue with the higher level person in the group. Actually that could be what the whole problem is to begin with.

Vanayr
01-19-2009, 01:32 PM
News flash Vanayr they have always been limited to 30, unless you get them from a quest or via a refund. IE you can only xp up to 30 banked AAs, but you can have more than 30 AAs banked.

No, what was happening was, you could just stay in your shroud form and EXP for awhile. When you went and removed your shroud, you would get your 3-400 AA's.

What this does is only allow you to get 30 AA's total, regardless.

Also I am pretty sure that the Shroud thing would also get around the whole AAxp issue with the higher level person in the group. Actually that could be what the whole problem is to begin with.

And no, that's not really the issue.

This is not a big "secret" anymore, so the hell with it. Sue me if you don't like me posting how this really works.

Go get an SK, and 3 clerics. Pick a zone. Your clerics are your pullers, your SK is the tank, keep 1 cleric parked at the SK to make sure he does not die. Get a Druid and a Mage as well, you'll need to stack their DS's. Get as many DS clickies as you can as well that stack, pots, whatever, just make sure you go crazy with your DS on the SK. Bard works perfect here too.

Obviously the SK needs to be a monster, we're using lvl 85 Crystallos geared toons, so it's up to you, but I would find a monster of an SK to do this with.

Now, go shroud your plvl group to 45, and get a lvl 45 toon that really has gear, though a caster is a better option. Make sure the caster toon can AE.

Your SK is going to equip 2 books, 2 shields, whatever, I don't care, as long as he does not damage the mobs.

Now for the big l33t "strat".

Clerics pull (because of promised) and pull EVERYTHING to the SK, yes, I mean 100-200+ mobs right to the SK. SK uses that AE hate spell and grabs the train. You slap every DS known to man on the SK and have your lvl 45 pop a couple AE's to dmg the mobs.

Remember up a few posts I said it's totally based on how a DS credits the damage? Well, now it should be real clear.

As your few hundred mobs are re-popping? Go clear another zone. After 2 clears, you should have about 30-40 AA's, go spend em.

Fun no?

Enjoy.

And for those of you who kept crying this was an "exploit"? Well, now you know. It's not even close to an exploit. Like I told you earlier, it's simply a cranked up version of how you've plvl'd every toon since before Kunark.

Do I feel bad getting 1000 AA's this way? Not even close. I don't feel bad about the previous 2000 I got doing beam kites with 2 Wizards either.

Gorkeyah can call it short-cutting, I just call it prudent use of time.

Yyevil
01-19-2009, 01:42 PM
@ Vanayr

That's very interesting, and I agree isn't an exploit, but it falls under "Not working as intended" and SOE has been on a rampage to remove things lately that are not working as intended.

And I think the situation with shrouds that people have been most interested in being fixed was the Forgotten Halls issue. I don't know how that one works, but it's the one most people refer to when crying about shroud "exploits".

Vanayr
01-19-2009, 01:51 PM
That's very interesting, and I agree isn't an exploit, but it falls under "Not working as intended" and SOE has been on a rampage to remove things lately that are not working as intended.

I'll agree to a point Yyevil. Like I posted earlier, no one is forcing mobs into a geometry issue, no one is using spells in some sort of exploited stacking, none of that is going on.

It's just using the spells like they have been designed since before Kunark.

How many of you have had a druid or a mage slap on a DS for you to go solo?

Same thing, just taken to a silly level.

Gorkeyah
01-19-2009, 02:54 PM
Gorkeyah can call it short-cutting, I just call it prudent use of time.

It doesn't bother me except that I worry SOE tunes the AA's somewhat based on the apparent easy time some people have earning them. :)

Vanayr
01-19-2009, 03:06 PM
Let's hope not! lol