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Fulic
04-07-2008, 08:45 AM
Why are there no Block IV items in Crystollas, when there are several Parry IV items that drop from Squires/Elders/Trio?

Why don't they just put a npc in PoK that you can give them a Parry item and it gives it back to you with Block on it or the other way around.

Reyla the Gnome
04-07-2008, 09:14 PM
Why don't they just put a npc in PoK that you can give them a Parry item and it gives it back to you with Block on it or the other way around.

That's a joke, right?

Fulic
04-08-2008, 07:01 AM
That's a joke, right?

You must not be a grouping monk, right?

Kajok
04-08-2008, 07:17 PM
Raiding monks don't have it any easier man. Items with block focus are....

TSS monk arms
Solteris 7 melee belt
Some named in crystollas melee neck

I suppose we have the option to make a sunshard or faycite seal with block on it but still our options are highly limited. Either we wait a long while, or we use something way under the lvl of play we're at, so if you want a block focus do the same. Get anguish boots or DP shawl or a last blood seal~

polkgaiimahn
04-08-2008, 07:21 PM
Sunshard/Faycite is most certainly better than most visible Solteris pieces.

Kajok
04-08-2008, 08:55 PM
If they'd only drop =(

My lower gear thing was mostly referring to TSS arms tho~

Aalronx
04-09-2008, 06:33 AM
Weren't they supposed to make Block / Parry the same focus so it didn't matter any more?

Or was that only on Block / Parry V and above?

Kajok
04-09-2008, 06:36 AM
The neck in crys raids is parry VI/ block VI for its focus. That's probably what they decided to do~

Fulic
04-09-2008, 08:05 AM
The neck in crys raids is parry VI/ block VI for its focus. That's probably what they decided to do~

This is my point. They gave raiders of Crystallos block but not the groups. I know it would never happen that they go back and fix this itemization oversite, so was trying to think of a way it could be added without bothering the itemization "Gods" of Sony.

Before anyone ask, I bugged it and petitioned. For what ever good that did.

Myrilith
04-09-2008, 08:17 AM
with monks being consistently overlooked so often, we must be due a whole monk expansion some time soon...

Souljahha
04-09-2008, 09:47 AM
like fabled--every item just about has a caster focus upgrade, while they offered no melee focus. Almost every item in SoF has some type of caster focus while there are very few melee focus items. Of the few items with melee focus the choices are further dwindled. Chances are not everyone in your guild will get those items before you move up to next expansion. Vast majority of those groupable drops are superior or equal to tss/tbs raid gears, which are way more difficult to acquire. I think it sucks that a group can get equal focus items that took a raider months to get flagged for and acquire a drop. I'd have np seeing block and parry 3 items in group content. There should have been a line drawn to seperate group and raiding mods period. Like we have 3/6 monks with tss shoulders after 4-6 months of flagging/farming then moved on. Sorry groupers, can't support your plea when those items are so rare from raiding.

Don't expect to see any changes soon. The devs/itemization clearly have no compassion for melee focus and totally cater to the casters.

Even the returns on mods like FK are a joke compared to returns on caster focus. Don't see melee getting hth, 1hs, 1hb, etc... mods in ages, let alone a wider choice on current melee focus items with usuable slots.

Maereax
04-09-2008, 11:39 AM
Dunno how you say groupers have a higher focus then raiders... the earring from Zeka (teir 3) has sharpshooting thats two levels lower then Zi`Thulle mask, which I just replaced with a fabled. Sharpshooting might be the exception, but I don't see a problem with groupers getting focuses that are two or three levels down from raid focuses from a year(TSS)+ ago...

Fulic
04-09-2008, 11:56 AM
I think it sucks that a group can get equal focus items that took a raider months to get flagged for and acquire a drop. I'd have np seeing block and parry 3 items in group content. There should have been a line drawn to seperate group and raiding mods period. Like we have 3/6 monks with tss shoulders after 4-6 months of flagging/farming then moved on. Sorry groupers, can't support your plea when those items are so rare from raiding.

I am talking Block IV. If I remember correctly that is Demi Plane, along with Cleave VI and Fero VI. Block III is Anguish, along with Cleave V and Fero V. How is this hurting you?

Fulic
04-09-2008, 01:57 PM
Raiding monks don't have it any easier man. Items with block focus are....

TSS monk arms
Solteris 7 melee belt
Some named in crystollas melee neck

I suppose we have the option to make a sunshard or faycite seal with block on it but still our options are highly limited. Either we wait a long while, or we use something way under the lvl of play we're at, so if you want a block focus do the same. Get anguish boots or DP shawl or a last blood seal~

I already have Anguish boot and a Bazu Seal of Blocking. This is not the point. Maybe you might understand beter if Sony would have only made the neck item with Parry VI and left off Block VI and there was no other Block VI items in SoF for Monks. Would you like it if you came here to complain about that and I said hey just settle for the Block V from X expantion? No!

silenzhandz
04-09-2008, 04:13 PM
I think they combined them for VIII onwards (raids), we be great if that had retroactively done it for all previous expansions, raid and group gear. But no :(

Rahkim
04-09-2008, 07:37 PM
Damn crystallos was a great idea....

Kajok
04-10-2008, 01:04 AM
No, but you're asking for a group content to be given something most already have. Why do you need block 4 exactly? Personaly I'm going to get a sunshard and make block 4 seal and ditch my tss arms and I'm set til crys. So going by that, why should group content be equal to the sunshard seals dropping in solteris? If anything you'd get block 3 since it would scale with what is on the group tier armor cleave 5 matches block 3 etc.

But going further, if raid zones have, 1 block item in solteris, 0 in sof general, 0 in MMM, and 1 in Crys, why would soe put one in wiht group content. They seem content leaving the raiders wanting or forcing us to make sunshard/faycite seals. So you should do the same and it seems, as you said, you have. Can't help you further if you have the best soe has designed by scale.

And I wouldn't complain about it because it's pretty obvious the choices we have for block are limited and grouper or raider they're scaled. Soe also looks at old content becoming group content I'm sure. At 80 it can't be hard to get DP flagged and kill some T1 mobs there. The curse raids and anguish of coruse are already~

Fulic
04-10-2008, 07:02 AM
No, but you're asking for a group content to be given something most already have. Why do you need block 4 exactly? Personaly I'm going to get a sunshard and make block 4 seal and ditch my tss arms and I'm set til crys. So going by that, why should group content be equal to the sunshard seals dropping in solteris? If anything you'd get block 3 since it would scale with what is on the group tier armor cleave 5 matches block 3 etc.

But going further, if raid zones have, 1 block item in solteris, 0 in sof general, 0 in MMM, and 1 in Crys, why would soe put one in wiht group content. They seem content leaving the raiders wanting or forcing us to make sunshard/faycite seals. So you should do the same and it seems, as you said, you have. Can't help you further if you have the best soe has designed by scale.

And I wouldn't complain about it because it's pretty obvious the choices we have for block are limited and grouper or raider they're scaled. Soe also looks at old content becoming group content I'm sure. At 80 it can't be hard to get DP flagged and kill some T1 mobs there. The curse raids and anguish of coruse are already~

Thanks for the support, I hope they remove the Block part off the neck item and let it have only parry for raiders! Sony gives Parry IV to all the melees/hybrids in the group content of SoF and no block IV. So just because some group monk might get block IV in SoF and you dont like it makes it fair that group Monks/Beastlords get left out.
I really can't understand the mentality of the raiding monks that come to this board and look down on another monk because he might want to do something with his or her life beside raid 5 hours a night 6 days a week. Well for your information the group of people I go with all the time has spent just as many hours gatherning scratched armor, then steamcores (before they added the converters), then essences and have now been gathering bazus (since we have beter armor) as you have been raiding. We just dont have a set schedule everyday.
May its time they change this boards name to Monk Raiders only.

Souljahha
04-10-2008, 08:49 AM
a simple thing called risk vs reward. When one group can go handle a tss event to get block 4 then fine put block 4 on a group event. I don't think it should have parry 4 either. I don't see 1 group even doing all the demi events. high risk for little reward. You are saying it's fine to get high reward items for little risk. I just disagree with it. Grats for taking the easy road. Grats for soe giving in to the woes and cries. Grats on getting a raid level focus with little effort. Suppose you expect an 8% block item too...

Yes, I have no issue seeing block/parry 3 on group items.

can flag for crystalos in one day if you try hard enough.

What's so hard to understand?

Only raid about 15-20 hours a week 4 days... hardly cutting into my family/social life

Fulic
04-10-2008, 09:04 AM
a simple thing called risk vs reward. When one group can go handle a tss event to get block 4 then fine put block 4 on a group event. I don't think it should have parry 4 either. I don't see 1 group even doing all the demi events. high risk for little reward. You are saying it's fine to get high reward items for little risk. I just disagree with it. Grats for taking the easy road. Grats for soe giving in to the woes and cries. Grats on getting a raid level focus with little effort. Suppose you expect an 8% block item too...

Yes, I have no issue seeing block/parry 3 on group items.

can flag for crystalos in one day if you try hard enough.

What's so hard to understand?

I don't expect anything but Sony to be fair and not leave Monks and Beastlords out completely. That is the whole point of this post. But all some of you see is that a monk don't deserve to get something.

Time for me to move on. Grouping Monks not allowed here.

Othanic
04-10-2008, 09:05 AM
you guys are missing the fucking point here.

Fulic isnt saying Crystallos drop should drop block IV just because he wants an upgrade - hes saying that:


EVERY OTHER MELEE CLASS THAT CAN USE IT HAS THE CAPABILITY TO GET A PARRY IV ITEM FROM CRYSTALLOS YET SOE NEGLETED TO PUT A BLOCK IV, THE EQUVALENT FOCUS ITEM FOR MNK/BST, IN THE SAME CONTENT.

Does that make it clearer for you?

You should be behind him (her?) - not opposing.


The TSS / TBS tradeskill augs have block V on it - your still not getting a focus effect as good as either of thse by giving non-raiders block IV. Block IV is DPOB - last blood aug / caliber.

Aside from the obvious oversight to not have it when they gave all the other melees a parry IV item - I would not say its out of your RvR spectrum considering the quality of all the other gear that drops there.


And yes, Fulic, I'm a raiding monk - so not all "don't get it"

Gorkeyah
04-10-2008, 09:23 AM
If you feel it is easy to get something with a group, there's nothing stopping you as a raider from getting the group version. It's not as easy for someone who can only manage group content, to go get a raid item, however.

What's the problem? Should I be mad that new monks don't have to camp treant fists, and kerran dolls? Oh and get to work on your faction for a hero bracer too! :P

Kajok
04-10-2008, 03:17 PM
TSS/TBS tradeskilled are block 4, block 5 is on faycite SOF. And I think you all jsut feel entitled to shit. Look abck in time and find me a block focus before anguish. Please do it, cuz all I found was block 1 on OoW tier 1. Ok, now go find me an item, in the group game that has a block focus prior to TSS. You can't. If you look you'll find this (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=66774) is the only item with a block focus that isn't a class armor and didn't require a raid for its time.

I'm not against you, directly, but you need to understand the flow the game has taken forever. Soe has always catered to other focus more than block, jsut how it is, hell look how many parry and dodge items are in solteris compared to the 1 block item lol. I agree the itemization isn't the ebst, but after 9 years we can't expect them to suddenly wake up and think "omg we really should put more block focus' out there" not gonna happen.

Othanic
04-10-2008, 03:45 PM
I dont feel entitled to anything - and it really doesnt matter ot me - BUT

since we are playing the "can you name me a time when" game - can you name an expansion that included a parry item, but not a block item of the same calibur?

Thats, to me, what is at issue here - why is there a parry IV item (ANY PARRY ITEM) when there is not an equivalent Block item in SOF expansion?

Can we get over the "should haves" and "Not Entitled tos" please - we should advocate for there to be an equivalent block item in SOF group content simply for the fact that there is a parry item there.

I really thought TSS / TBS tradeskilled augs were block V / Parry V - so now I have to ask "WTF not?" - to me, that doesnt make sense - you cant get one unless you are raiding TSS / TBS content - which has dodge V, Block V, Parry V in it - the tradeskilled aug should carry the same mod on it (imo).

Im TSS / Solteris geared - so this doesnt matter to me from a "need" or "want" standpoint - Im looking at this from an equality standpoint - one of the core defense mechanisims for the monk / bst class was basically overlooked by not providing a block item in group SOF content - and it should be rectified.

Myrilith
04-10-2008, 04:00 PM
The only classes that devs care about is tanks, thats why they have an obsession for making not just tank only armor, but tank only weapons, tank only nonvisible armor, tank only jewelry, nonbow ranged items, and even tank only charms. This is a massive skew of the itemization options to cater to WAR/SK/Pal/Brd without making equivalent exclusive role-specific items for melee dps.

Sephie
04-10-2008, 05:38 PM
I'd be pretty pissed if Solteris Belt from 2 Gods was Block 4, if the Neck from Sisters was Parry 5. Wouldn't you?

Kajok
04-11-2008, 07:57 AM
Why would they scale focus differently? Oh yea, they wouldn't lol. But far as the tradeskilled ones, they always scale the focus down a tier from the content they drop in. Solteris/tss had block 5 for seals are 4, DP had 4 so last bloods were 3.

Again I disagree with your statement. "Im looking at this from an equality standpoint - one of the core defense mechanisims for the monk / bst class was basically overlooked by not providing a block item in group SOF content - and it should be rectified." Group content has always sorta mirrored raid content for visible armor slots since OoW I guess. It's doing so now in SoF. What has never been mirrored was the melee focus' on items compared to the raid focus'. I mean that in a dropped ratio. There like a billion items with dodge 5 in solteris, and not 500 million group items with dodge 3. It's never a 2 : 1 ratio. Keeping that in mind, 1 item in SoF raids has block, so that means less than .5 items should have block 3 or even the laughable block 4. You have sylissar for block 3 if you want it.

Othanic
04-11-2008, 09:34 AM
So your ok there is no block item in sof group content. Thats fine and your opinion.

My opinion is that its an oversight - regardless of whatever ratio you believe SOE is following.

My thought is this: Other melees get parry IV, so Mnk / Bst should get a block IV item - it only goes with equalization of itemsation, in my opinion.

I really dont get why you think its laughable to have block IV on group item anyway to be honest. All the groupable melee focus' were upgraded in SOF.

From Group contetn you can get, and all of these were upgrades to what you could get from prior expansions in group content:
Fero V
Cleave V
Parry IV
Dodge IV
Sharpshooting V
(am I missing any?)

So Why would they NOT provide a block upgrade?

Again, I already have block V from TSS arms, so this does not matter from a personal perspective to me.

I do think its an oversight to not have it, however.

Fulic
04-11-2008, 12:13 PM
Shhhh, don't tell Kajok that groups can get rk III spells and tomes this expantion also. He might just lose it completely.

Maereax
04-11-2008, 02:11 PM
The only classes that devs care about is tanks, thats why they have an obsession for making not just tank only armor, but tank only weapons, tank only nonvisible armor, tank only jewelry, nonbow ranged items, and even tank only charms. This is a massive skew of the itemization options to cater to WAR/SK/Pal/Brd without making equivalent exclusive role-specific items for melee dps.

I just wana say... I laughed...

Hard...

Gensis
04-11-2008, 03:33 PM
Get over the Block IV part, focus on the Block IV part. We're not arguing about the level of the focus, but the fact that the BLOCK focus doesn't exist in Crystallos group gear!

polkgaiimahn
04-14-2008, 10:01 PM
http://www.mustangmods.com/ims/u/1479/2257/233521.png

Shukkex
04-15-2008, 02:52 AM
i was always wondering the same thing about there not being a block item in group SoF content. block has always been such a shitty focus to get ahold of... and yah, i agree that there should be a block item equal to that of the parry focus available to groupers (no clue which rank it is). only block item available to raiders, minus TS seals, is CLA neck. i kept my TSS arms soley for IB5 thru TBS... made some IB5 boots just so i could ditch those

groupers got treated pretty well this expansion and i was pleased to see that... hope they add some block for ya

Kheibik
04-15-2008, 04:29 AM
Coco,

Did you get that off test? If so, do you know if it applies to all block/parry focuses?

polkgaiimahn
04-15-2008, 08:08 AM
All.

Kheibik
04-15-2008, 11:34 AM
Win!

Ughbash
04-15-2008, 11:46 AM
Win?

Maybe, depends wether they jsut changed the name or actually changed what the focus does, that will require parsing to tell.

Nedrom
04-15-2008, 12:20 PM
why would you need to parse it?

all it does is have lines that say:

add chance to block by %
add chance to parry by %

think of the new focus like our aura... except they match the same values as when they were a single focus

Ughbash
04-15-2008, 12:50 PM
why would you need to parse it?

all it does is have lines that say:

add chance to block by %
add chance to parry by %

think of the new focus like our aura... except they match the same values as when they were a single focus


I do think of the new focus like our aura, and just as our aura is bugged (in ways they don't udnerstand) I expect this to be bugged. Unlike our aura though I don't expect this to be a beneficial bug.

But you are right it SHOULD be somethign easy to see in Lucy.

Nedrom
04-15-2008, 03:30 PM
you're right, I forgot about the whole aura thing...I guess it's easily parsed on test

if i have time this weekend, since the change is on test allready, i'll run a test overnight with and without the new block stuffs and post back here the results

Ninjafist
04-15-2008, 05:42 PM
Side note related to parsing, Did they ever re-enable /testcopy after disabling it to fix what ever expoit ( phosperones/booster packs which ever it was) ?

I've been wanting to do some parses but /testcopy keeps returning an error about "cannot find world" when ever i try it.

polkgaiimahn
04-15-2008, 07:03 PM
No.

Kheibik
04-15-2008, 10:37 PM
Coco is a man of few words, as in less than two.

Kajok
04-16-2008, 12:05 AM
You get your wish fulic, good for you. It doesn't take away from the fact that really groupers weren't meant to get a block focus as history goes, or as any sort of balance goes for that matter. However the devs have said for a while they were going to merge block/parry so really nothing suprised me from all this.

Fulic
04-16-2008, 07:00 AM
You get your wish fulic, good for you. It doesn't take away from the fact that really groupers weren't meant to get a block focus as history goes, or as any sort of balance goes for that matter. However the devs have said for a while they were going to merge block/parry so really nothing suprised me from all this.

Thank you Kajok.

Just to let you know my guild does raid 4 days a week, but the thing I like most is that we are a nonmanitory raiding guild. The guild is the oldest and the largest on the server with over 1000 members.

Ughbash
04-16-2008, 08:06 AM
You get your wish fulic, good for you. It doesn't take away from the fact that really groupers weren't meant to get a block focus as history goes, or as any sort of balance goes for that matter.

They got Improved block 1 in OOW.

They got Improved block 3 in TSS.

I don't really have any problem with them getting Improved block 4 now and hope they get Imp block 5 next expansion.


Now raiders got Improved block 3 in OOW, so groupers were 2 levels behind.
Raiders got Improved block 4 in Demi so if groupers got a Improved block 2 item they would have been 2 behind (I am nto sure if they did or not).
Raiders got Improved block 5 in TSS, Gruopers got Improved block 3 (2 behind).
Raiders get Improved block 6 in SoF, Groupers got Improved block 4 (2 behind).

So historicaly groupers have been 2 behind raiders and thus SHOULD get improved block 4 now.

Kajok
04-16-2008, 09:23 AM
I suppose, but those focuses wer eonly on the visible gear slots, which as I mentioned somewhat mirrored the raid set. But I don't agree with 4 b/c 4 is on the tss/tbs "LB" symbol things. Also the median raid lvl these days is tss, so if we were to go by that it'd only be 1 rank behind the median and 2 behind the top end. Etiehr way soe will do what it wants.

Nedrom
04-16-2008, 09:29 AM
You get your wish fulic, good for you. It doesn't take away from the fact that really groupers weren't meant to get a block focus as history goes, or as any sort of balance goes for that matter. However the devs have said for a while they were going to merge block/parry so really nothing suprised me from all this.

grouping rogues, rangers, warriors, and knights all get improved parry, why wouldn't monks and beastlords get improved block?

you're quite illogical

Kajok
04-16-2008, 09:36 AM
Cuz we havent in the past? Also parry is used by classes who tend to complain more. I guess that's what we're becoming really, so go with the flow right? Parry is also used by more than two classes so it gets put on more stuff, sux for us, but i guess we should jsut start complaining again huh?

Oh and I guess in res[ect to my post jsut above, 500 hp gear isn't really relative to the median raid guild either so kinda doesn't work huh ;p

Athilik
04-16-2008, 01:06 PM
Kajok, Last bloods themselves were one block focus behind Demiplane. LB = Block III Demi = Block IV. It only makes sense that TSS last bloods are 1 block behind TSS arms. Historically.

Also as uhgbash said, we got the focus in omens originally for groupers. As far as visible slots, if you haven't been following SoF itemization: They have set certain focuses to certain slots universally for all classes. So this expansion is different.

TypeO Negative
04-17-2008, 05:59 AM
from april 17th patch...

- Improved Block and Improved Parry have been merged. Any item that previously had Improved Block or Improved Parry will now have Improved Parry / Block.

issue solved :wink:

Nedrom
04-17-2008, 08:05 AM
This is pretty sweet.

It's nice that we get changes like this so we're not limited with our gear choices.

Now, if they can keep damage augs for all/all instead of breaking them down into 1hs or 1hb or h2h etc... it would be great for them to be combined too :)

Fulic
04-17-2008, 11:31 PM
Well being heard feels good.

Many thanks to whomever, if it came from here.

Maereax
04-18-2008, 11:29 AM
from april 17th patch...

- Improved Block and Improved Parry have been merged. Any item that previously had Improved Block or Improved Parry will now have Improved Parry / Block.

issue solved :wink:

ALL of them?

Nedrom
04-18-2008, 02:37 PM
yes, it says "any item"