PDA

View Full Version : A Ball of Sunlight & Sharpened Talons of the Lycanthrope



wycca
11-02-2007, 12:19 AM
I come bearing great tidings.

These weapons have had their ratios improved, and should be patched with SoF.

Sharpened Talons of the Lycanthrope are now - 47+2/21. I believe it is Disease dmg.

A Ball of Sunlight is now - 48+1/19. I believe it is Fire dmg.

These new ratios are not in-game on any server, but Merloc gave me approval to disclose them.

The upgrades are a direct result of him being willing to listen to players and take into consideration parses, as are some other things happening that I cannot discuss. That's my way of saying, be happy that we're getting this, not that it took so long. You are missing alot of information if you assume the later.

netura
11-02-2007, 02:02 AM
any word on Twisted Staff of Temporal Paradox?

wycca
11-02-2007, 02:24 AM
any word on Twisted Staff of Temporal Paradox?

Not touched. I didn't even when I brought up updating the others- the general 2h review isn't done yet, and it's ratio will depend on parses of the new weapon ratios I just mentioned. That, and the fact that I have *alot* of things I'm working on atm, which are *much* more important and immediate than that staff (as much as I'd like to make it worth using myself mind you).

Jerone
11-02-2007, 03:11 AM
Nice one, now can you get him to perhaps let those and brumals drop :P

wycca
11-02-2007, 03:33 AM
Nice one, now can you get him to perhaps let those and brumals drop :P

The drop rates on all 3 range between 16 and 18% =P.

Pliko
11-02-2007, 04:13 AM
The drop rates on all 3 range between 16 and 18% =P.

So that means the chance of 1 dropping per loot slot is 16-18, or that its chance of dropping is 8-9% , but with 2 loot slots possible, adds up to 16-18%?

If the former were true, then it would be 32-36% per event, which meant 1 every 3 events? (which is what weve seen so far, but its a small sample set)

Anyway :) Kickass that they are dropping the delays... I had an inkling that they might do that after seeing something somewhere (NDA cant say more ;P)


So the new ratios put the ball about 13% ahead of the talons when previously they were just over 7.5% ahead.... thats good to know, ty

wycca
11-02-2007, 04:22 AM
All weapons in TBS and TSS are only found on 1 drop table. On that table, they have X% chance to drop. Which means, per event, they have that flat X% chance of appearing.

Pliko
11-02-2007, 05:01 AM
All weapons in TBS and TSS are only found on 1 drop table. On that table, they have X% chance to drop. Which means, per event, they have that flat X% chance of appearing.

Ah ok, I wasnt sure if 2 could drop at once :) thanks for clearing it up

Raptyr Tailfist
11-02-2007, 07:51 AM
That's fantastic. Good news for Raiders.

<.< >.> >.<

(casuals have been stagnating for three years, too ya know)

wycca
11-02-2007, 08:32 AM
That's fantastic. Good news for Raiders.

<.< >.> >.<

(casuals have been stagnating for three years, too ya know)

I seem to recall 3 weapons introduced in the last 2 expansions that are above Despair's ratio that are HTH specific, and another 1hb introduced that is comparable as well. I know, because when their ratios got revamped from their original state, I made sure they WERE superior and made the case to Merloc. Not to mention, Despair was 1 weapon, and there have been offhand upgrades since then, so even that aspect isn't entirely correct. (26/20 > 24/21 by a good chunk at the top).

Granted it's not huge, but that last statement is incorrect and I wanted to point it out.

Also, and I realize you were likely talking about weapons, but 3 years ago the Dragon Fang and Clawstriker's disciplines did not exist. You cannot consider upgrades in a vacuum, and those 2 discs, provided a huge increase to the monk class. As a matter of fact, the % increase as a total of your dps, for a non-raiding monk, was FAR larger than a raider's, and was, in fact, a huge consideration when we worked with Prathun on it. It was also a major argument in us likely keeping it, when they were pruning discs as well. That disc was something Ned and I were very proud of because it was so gear-independent in it's dps.

Nedrom
11-02-2007, 09:18 AM
sof is gonna be very good to groupers

Gelan
11-02-2007, 12:09 PM
Well, i'm sure the groupers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grouper) will be happy... :biggrin:

Regarding those droprates, hmmm.
25 kills, 4 brumals, wow, 16% allright.
With 9 Monks and 5 Beastlords that means we'll all have have a pair... sometimes in summer 2011. Can hardly wait!
And i hereby want to thank SOE again for making them non-lore!

Btw, whats the drop rate on the other stuff? Last two kills, we got a pair of rings each time... :mad:

Oh yeah, and regarding the topic, thanks for those upgrades (though i generally dislike elemental damage).
I'm off now, calculating when i'll have a pair of Balls. :cool:

baleful tigercrane
11-02-2007, 12:16 PM
I'm off now, calculating when i'll have a pair of Balls. :cool:

I am betting since it's you we're talking about that would be never! (even less likely for bale to drop a set)

cheeop
11-02-2007, 12:19 PM
Well, i'm sure the groupers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grouper) will be happy... :biggrin:

Regarding those droprates, hmmm.
25 kills, 4 brumals, wow, 16% allright.
With 9 Monks and 5 Beastlords that means we'll all have have a pair... sometimes in summer 2011. Can hardly wait!
And i hereby want to thank SOE again for making them non-lore!

Btw, whats the drop rate on the other stuff? Last two kills, we got a pair of rings each time... :mad:

Oh yeah, and regarding the topic, thanks for those upgrades (though i generally dislike elemental damage).
I'm off now, calculating when i'll have a pair of Balls. :cool:

hey old friend. hows it going???

Jerone
11-02-2007, 01:03 PM
We're 0 Brumals for about 17 or 18 kills now, and frankly getting a tad hacked off, We've not seen a single AG bow drop either in erm 30+ clears.

FumanChoo
11-02-2007, 03:15 PM
Guess we been lucky 13 brumals in 32 kills

Muolalas-Luclin
11-02-2007, 04:20 PM
Thanks for the work invested in getting this wycca/ned/others i know have been working with dev's over it. Makes me a happy monk.

wycca
11-02-2007, 04:57 PM
For the record, I pulled up our guild kills last night.

We're damn near the expected drop rate with our sampling.

cheeop
11-02-2007, 05:43 PM
Thanks for the work invested in getting this wycca/ned/others i know have been working with dev's over it. Makes me a happy monk.


quiet you! i didnt hear anyone say 'simon says"
<3

Iksa
11-02-2007, 08:27 PM
5 for 35 on Brumals. 14.2%
1 for 10 on Ball of Sunlight. 10.0%
2 for 19 on Sharpened Talons. 10.5%

So ya, even with my guild's crappy luck, we're not too far off the expected drop rate. The problem is that such a drop rate is very poorly tuned. Weapons need to drop at least twice as often as non-weapons. The only exception to this would be class-specific weapons like the Paladin or SK swords. Since class-specific weapons have a much smaller user base, the demand and thus the need for drops is smaller.

The end-expac weapons were made non-lore as a "fix" for the erosion of our traditional ratio advatage over other dual-wielders. Non-lore doesn't fix diddly squat if the drop rate doesn't provide a realistic chance for us to acquire two of these weapons with less than 9 months of farming the same content.

Take my guild's Brumals drop rate for example. We farmed TSS once per week like clockwork and it took us over 6 months of farming to get just five Brumals. We have 4-5 active monks and 3-4 active beastlords. At the current drop rate, it would take us 10+ months of farming to equip our h2h melee with just one Brumals and close to two years of farming for a pair to each. Even if you cut it down to 3 monks and 2 beastlords, that's 12+ months of farming to equip each leather melee with a pair of Brumals. That's just stupid.

It's no better in Solteris. My guild is still farming both TSS end-zones for weapons even though we've had all of Solteris on weekly farm-status for 3+ months. Virtually everything rots for us in TSS except the weapons. It's stupid to have to continue farming year-old content just to get weapons for melee.

Non-lore issue aside, this is a problem inherent to the drop-rate of all weapons. Nobody needs 2 helmets or breastplates but pretty much every melee class in current content needs at least 2 weapons and most dual-wielders need 6.

My guild always has armor and non-visible slot items rotting for months while we continue to starve for weapons. Two-hander classes fare a bit better in that they need up to 3 weapons to maximize their effectiveness. That puts their drop-rate need on par with what they need for finger and ear slots but still at least 2x higher than what is needed for a drop-rate on non-finger/ear slots yet the weapons have equal or lesser drop-rates than all the non-weapon gear.

Raptyr Tailfist
11-02-2007, 09:30 PM
Also, and I realize you were likely talking about weapons, but 3 years ago the Dragon Fang and Clawstriker's disciplines did not exist.

Quite right; Point taken. Since I only average 460dps over the course of a month, ClawStrikers provides half my damage output. CS is my "new weapon."

I couldn't help but be frustrated to see that the "wow" Ally Katta 2 hander (64/36) is almost identical to the best 2 hander from DoN (61+1/39) crystal merchants tho. I had to point this out over and over to people who were going to waste their Orum to "upgrade" to one.

This in particular is a good example of 3 years gone and months of faction work on top of it to only be disappointed by a fractional improvement.

wycca
11-03-2007, 01:18 AM
Yea, but you got the 26/20 and the 24/20 HTH in Katta, the 26+1/22 1hb in Katta, and the 25+1/21 HTH from FC. The 2handers suck, it's a known problem, it's not super high on my list, but, as you may have read around, as a result of players being the 2h problem to their attention, it has received quite a bit of consideration by them, and it's a start. I'll bug people more later, but as you may or may not appreciate, I'm swamped right now.

ArlakisD
11-03-2007, 04:39 PM
Talons goes up near the original Ball of sunlight and Ball of sunlight finally is worthy of being our top dog for DPS. (It did better then talons but still rather poor.) Can't wait to see them live.

I do agree with Iksa that the drop rate on weapons is on the low side we had good luck our first month or so in but since then it's been dry. It's extremely annoying for me to look at out Two gods drop percentages :P (Not just ball) Have to love that RNG... Though it hasn't loved us back /grin.

Monks are sort of lucky in some ways Only need like 5 weapons at the most. And can get away with 3. (2 HTH + 1 2HB) And even still we feel the pinch. I do wish they'd remove the lore tag from HTH weapons (beyond just the Best raid)
But thank you Wycca for some of your work.

Arlakis Dreamslayer

Raptyr Tailfist
11-03-2007, 04:48 PM
I'll bug people more later, but as you may or may not appreciate, I'm swamped right now.

I can appreciate being busy but honestly, since I was afk for 2 years I'm not quite sure who you are. The last thing I remember was Nedrom going balls out parsing DPS on Test.

Are you the Monk Advocate or something ?

Nedrom
11-04-2007, 01:18 PM
lot of monks are providing feedback raptyr these days, you may not see it but i know it's there

wycca is just trying to catch up to my post count is all ;) lol

Raptyr Tailfist
11-04-2007, 01:32 PM
Ned, can I just say that it's 7 different kinds of awesome that you thought to use the original concept art for Epic 2 as your Magelo backdrop.

/edit Can I just mention here that I tried to upload a 21kb image for my signature and found a NINE kb limit imposed ?? NINE? Be serious, please.

Nedrom
11-05-2007, 02:34 PM
I checked last night and BoS is +1 fire and ToL are +2 disease

WongLow Qsraider
11-05-2007, 03:26 PM
Grouper Monks prolly be set pretty solid with SoF , I mean they are wipeing out Anguish/Don/Demi/PoR Raid Gear with Group gear in SoF , surely the weapons will atleast be anguish/demi lvl.

Ofcourse that doesn't mean much 2.0 lasts past PoR less u get a .5 page from Performer then your still using the same weapon basically thru 4 expansions of Raiding

Souljahha
11-05-2007, 04:16 PM
We have had much better rate on leth maul vs brumal. Which is fine by me rather see mauls in our hands :)

rough estimates on kills

3 for 8 on leth mauls (all have gone to monks, hope next week is as good since i have enough dkp now)
1 for 15 brumals

we have had a slew of bows & the 2hp also been fairly light on other wep drops

Worst though is 5 sothgar mantles in 3 weeks, yes back-to-back weeks of double lame mantle drops

Kaliaila
11-07-2007, 08:34 AM
On the weapon drop rate, anyone think that it might help if they just added another table that only had weapons on it and nothing else and it had an X% chance of triggering so that there would occasionally be an extra weapon drop? It shouldn't take longer to get 2-6 items for a whole raid than it takes that same raid to fill 7-11+ other slots.

wycca
11-07-2007, 08:57 AM
I've suggested that before. Along with a weapons vendor, and a weapons mold idea. Heh.

Ughbash
11-07-2007, 09:38 AM
Quick count for the open raids I do shows 8 brumals in 33 raids, so almost 1 in 4.

We have 2 monks now who are dual wielding them.

Shoulders on the other hand is about 2 in 33 raids :(